Tentmaker Forum

And rejects the fact that even though it's an adjective form of aion(meaning age)it still means eternal and that the force of an adjective can't be greater than its noun equivalent is bunk should at least refer to these two words:

πιστός-adjective meaning faithful,trusty,believing
πίστις-noun meaning faith,belief,trust,faithfulness

Seems the GNT writers used the same style of adjective/noun equals with this word. Does anyone know any other Greek words that have an adjective/noun equivalent?

what I know is 'aionios' is a transliteration of 'olam' in the LXX...'olam' does not intrinsically mean'eternal' in the LXX....the NT writers extensively quoted from the LXX and were aware of this...therfore aionios in the NT doesnt intrinsically mean 'eternal'.

Quote from: darryl on March 14, 2018, 08:22:37 AM
what I know is 'aionios' is a transliteration of 'olam' in the LXX...'olam' does not intrinsically mean'eternal' in the LXX....the NT writers extensively quoted from the LXX and were aware of this...therfore aionios in the NT doesnt intrinsically mean 'eternal'.

Oh! thanks Darryl.. I've read about that before.. but now I think I understand it!

:Chinscratch: maybe if I knew what the LXX is, it would help.. :laughing7: well, I know it must be a very early translation..


   oh!

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The Septuagint (from the Latin septuaginta, "seventy"), also known as the LXX, is a Koine Greek translation of a Hebraic textual tradition that included certain texts which were later included in the canonical Hebrew Bible and other related texts which were not.

I've led a sheltered life.. for many years studying only my bible(s) with Strong's Concordance.. (imagine my confusion when I enter a forum where they are talking about this preacher and that preacher and denominations :doh: ..historical or current, though I do know a tiny bit about some historical preachers
(I know who Luther was! :laughing7: ) and the difference between calvinism and arminianism..

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What is the Septuagint? - Got Questions?
https://www.gotquestions.org/septuagint.html
Answer: The Septuagint (also known as the LXX) is a translation of the Hebrew Bible into the Greek language. The name "Septuagint" comes from the Latin word for seventy. The tradition is that 70 (or 72) Jewish scholars were the translators behind the Septuagint. The Septuagint was translated in the third and second ...

Quote from: darryl on March 14, 2018, 08:22:37 AM
what I know is 'aionios' is a transliteration of 'olam' in the LXX...'olam' does not intrinsically mean'eternal' in the LXX....the NT writers extensively quoted from the LXX and were aware of this...therfore aionios in the NT doesnt intrinsically mean 'eternal'.

:thumbsup:

Quote from: JamesH on March 14, 2018, 03:53:20 AM
And rejects the fact that even though it's an adjective form of aion(meaning age)it still means eternal and that the force of an adjective can't be greater than its noun equivalent is bunk should at least refer to these two words:

πιστός-adjective meaning faithful,trusty,believing
πίστις-noun meaning faith,belief,trust,faithfulness

Seems the GNT writers used the same style of adjective/noun equals with this word. Does anyone know any other Greek words that have an adjective/noun equivalent?

    :Chinscratch: now if someone would answer and explain all about that concerning the greek, I'd be 'all set'!
              ..as the saying goes :laughing7:

:Chinscratch:  trying to think of a noun/adjective word.. just in english for now.. how about Love -
God is Love - noun
God is Lov-ing... adjective.. okay, I think I have that much straight! :declare: :laughing7:

http://biblehub.com/greek/165.htm -
SHORT VERSION:
165. aión ► the noun
Strong's Concordance
aión: a space of time, an age

◄ 166. aiónios ► the adjective
Strong's Concordance
aiónios: agelong, eternal

LONGER VERSION:
◄ 165. aión ►
Short Definition: an age, a cycle of time
Definition: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.

◄ 166. aiónios ►
Short Definition: eternal, unending [ ? how'd they get that? I can see the possibility of age to age..? or "series of ages stretching to infinity" it wouldn't be said as "aión to aión"? idk]
Definition: age-long, and therefore: practically eternal [? huh?] unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.

From what I understand (have read, and it seems like) the Hebrew mindset was not with hereafter.. nor eternal.. But beliefs around them.. all the pagan systems and thought, seemed to be largely focused on a hereafter.. with shades of reward and punishment..

Was the Talmud written after the Babylonian captivity? They gave up idols, but embraced the concept(s) of inherent immortality and afterlife "punishment" and eternal state of doom - which I read was created early on by king and priest collusion to control the masses of common folk..

Thanks Jason!

Quote from: JamesH on March 14, 2018, 03:53:20 AM
And rejects the fact that even though it's an adjective form of aion(meaning age)it still means eternal and that the force of an adjective can't be greater than its noun equivalent is bunk should at least refer to these two words:

πιστός-adjective meaning faithful,trusty,believing
πίστις-noun meaning faith,belief,trust,faithfulness

Seems the GNT writers used the same style of adjective/noun equals with this word. Does anyone know any other Greek words that have an adjective/noun equivalent?

I can be "loving" but I cannot be love. (I mean, possibly, poetically I could say i am love meaning He lives in me.. but that's still a fAr cry from being love! In its totality!) - "the force of an adjective can't be greater than its noun equivalent"

Quote from: marie glen on March 14, 2018, 04:19:26 PM
:Chinscratch: maybe if I knew what the LXX is, it would help.. :laughing7: well, I know it must be a very early translation..

The first Greek translation by a team of 70 Jewish scholars of the OT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

Brenton LXX is a English translation of the Greek XX

Quote from: WhiteWings on March 14, 2018, 04:56:40 PM

Brenton LXX is a English translation of the Greek XX

  thanks!

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The Septuagint (LXX) translation by Lancelot C. Brenton into English

This is an English example, but is this what you mean? A word that can be both a noun and an adjective?

BEST

NOUN

the supreme effort one can make; "they did their best"
the person who is most outstanding or excellent; someone who tops all others; "he could beat the best of them"
Canadian physiologist (born in the United States) who assisted F. G. Banting in research leading to the discovery of insulin (1899-1978)
VERB

get the better of; "the goal was to best the competition"
ADJECTIVE

(superlative of `good') having the most positive qualities; "the best film of the year"; "the best solution"; "the best time for planting"; "wore his best suit"
(comparative and superlative of `well') wiser or more advantageous and hence advisable; "it would be better to speak to him"; "the White House thought it best not to respond"
ADVERB

in a most excellent way or manner; "he played best after a couple of martinis"
it would be sensible; "you'd best stay at home"
from a position of superiority or authority; "father knows best"; "I know better."

Gen 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting (olam) God.
That verse isn't about the age of God. It's about His nature. Nobody really fully knows Him because He's hidden and too complex to understand.


The color red. → Red is an noun.A red car. → Car is a noun and red is an adjective.
The olam. → Olam is a noun.The olam God → Olam is an adjective and God is a noun.

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting (olam) punishment: but the righteous into eternal (olam) life.
Punishment and life are both nouns.Everlasting and eternal are both adjectives.

I'm fully aware the Greek NT reads aionios and not olam, but the Aramaic NT reads olam.  And in the LXX olam is translated as aionios. Click

So the correct translation is:
Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into God's punishment: but the righteous into God's life.

A more literal translation would have something like 'obscure source' but because we know the source I've used God. So Matt 25:46 doesn't mention any duration.

more (http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/hebraic_meaning.html#Olam)

Quote from: WhiteWings on March 14, 2018, 08:12:52 PM
I'm fully aware the Greek NT reads aionios and not olam, but the Aramaic NT reads olam.

Amen, it makes infinitely more sense that Aramaic was the language Jesus spoke.. which of course, He spoke Matthew 25:46.

Here are some more adjective/noun equivalents:

ἀγαπη-noun meaning love
ἀγαπητός-adjective meaning beloved

ἄτεκνος-adjective meaning childless
τέκνον-noun meaning child

Γαλιλαῖος-adjective meaning a native of Galilee
Γαλιλαία-noun meaning Galilee