I make peace, and create evil: NOT ANY MORE.

[WhiteWings]

Ra is always translated as evil.
Ada as calamity.

[peacemaker]

Ra is always translated as evil.

Is Ra El evil?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Ra is the word for evil.....thought it was interesting in light of the fact the Egyptian sun god was named Ra....

[peacemaker]

:cloud9: Ra is the word for evil.....thought it was interesting in light of the fact the Egyptian sun god was named Ra....

It is said, "You shall not create any graven images, which are deeply impressed and firmly fixed upon the mind."

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

peacemaker

[shawn]

L.Ray Smith says;  Now listen carefully. When a scientist creates an experiment or machine that malfunctions, is he responsible for the malfunction? Yes. Does he hold the experiment or machine responsible? No. Does he hold God responsible? No. Okay.

Now then, according to Christendom, when God creates an experiment or machine that malfunctions, is He responsible for the malfunction? No. Does He hold the experiment or machine responsible? Yes. Does He hold man responsible? Yes. See the wisdom?

I have just shown you one reason why God calls the WISDOM of this world, STUPIDITY!

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness [Greek: stupidity] with God. For it is written, He takes the wise in their own craftiness" (I Cor. 3:19).

First, Christendom assumes that God's creation of humans malfunctioned -- they did NOT!

Second, they assume that God is not responsible and does not take responsibility -- He DOES!

One unscriptural assumption added to another unscriptural assumption does not equal a Bible Truth!

Few indeed have ever stopped long enough to consider that just maybe God intended for the world to be in the hellish mess that we find it. Not for all eternity, but for the present, for a period of time, for a great purpose. It just seems so wrong to Christian thought to believe that God would have purposed such an evil and unhappy world. But look at the alternative. Are we to believe that God tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to make a good creation, but was unaware of its potential to run amok? And ever since, God must therefore either lack the love for humanity to straighten it out, or He lacks the power and ability. But either way it disowns God's sovereignty and presents us with a God Who either CANNOT or WILL NOT STOP THE INSANITY! They would have us believe that God's solution to rid the world of sin and evil is to torture most of humanity in fire for all eternity.

The whole idea is blasphemous. If a carnal-minded human can take responsibility for an invention that malfunctions, I submit, that God is bigger and more responsible than puny man. Be it known to all that God takes full responsibility for His creation, and absolutely nothing in His creation is malfunctioning. Here's the proof:

Let's look at a little understood Scripture.

"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that's God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!

The force of these verses in Rom. 8:20-22 is inescapable. It was God HIMSELF Who subjected the whole creation to vanity, and He didn't ask anyone's permission before He did it. And it is only God Himself Who will deliver the whole creation from the bondage of corruption, pain, and suffering. Make no mistake about it: God is the Creator of evil, and He takes full responsibility for the deliverance from the consequences of all the evils that have caused the creation to "groan and travail in PAIN until NOW" as Paul describes. God takes responsibility for the temporary failures of creation so that He can take all the credit and glory for its successes.

This post is so powerful.  Long before I was introduced to these kinds of concepts being taught God doesn't create evil...I believed otherwise.  If God is all knowing, he knew before creation the results of creation.  If he is all powerful he is able to stop said evils.  That must mean that even the evils of this world are used for his perfect will and plan.

[shawn]

Did God have to create evil in order to create evil in the minds of men?

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. (1 John 1: 5)

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man (James 1:13)

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. (Romans 1 18)

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities; His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became ...... (Romans 1:20-22)

Is cold the absence of heat?
Blindness the absence of sight?
Hate the absence of love?
Darkness the absence of Light?

"The opposite of one thing is the absence of the other."

To remain in the sea is opposite of standing on the shore; and many refuse, or are unable to climb the mountain.
God did not create evil as is perceived by man, but does cause adversity.  And a catastrophe, disaster, calamity,
or times of trouble are not evil in and of themselves.

peacemaker

If I create a weapon that I know will be used to kill others would you hold me responsible for creating that weapon?

[thinktank]

The weapon God created was the biggest  "hydrogen water bomb!" (h20)known to man, he then popped it upon the earth and a huge flood killed most of the population apart from Noah and his familly  :grin:

But ultimately it was for our good.

[shawn]

Almost every Christian I know makes that statement Tim, but NOWHERE in scripture does it say God created the devil/satan.

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 2:15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Doesn't the first scripture I quoted, mean that He created satan and everything else?

Hi shadow I agree and have used those scriptures to show satans reconciliation.
But satan is just a title and not a proper name it means adversary.
So although God created all things, He created them good and by departing from His will they became evil.
Therefore God did not create satan(the adversary), satan created himself. Just as God never created man with sin, man disobeyed and became a sinner. Sinner is not a proper name but because of disobedience that is what man BECAME.

Wow.  I must admit that is also a compelling argument.  Ok, now I'm more confused than ever.  I guess sticking to "I just trust God" is going to have to be sufficient for me now.   :bigGrin:

[peacemaker]

If I create a weapon that I know will be used to kill others would you hold me responsible for creating that weapon?

Depends on the reason you created it in the first place?

"Knowing and doing are two different things."

peacemaker

[jabcat]

Almost every Christian I know makes that statement Tim, but NOWHERE in scripture does it say God created the devil/satan.

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 2:15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Doesn't the first scripture I quoted, mean that He created satan and everything else?

Hi shadow I agree and have used those scriptures to show satans reconciliation.
But satan is just a title and not a proper name it means adversary.
So although God created all things, He created them good and by departing from His will they became evil.
Therefore God did not create satan(the adversary), satan created himself. Just as God never created man with sin, man disobeyed and became a sinner. Sinner is not a proper name but because of disobedience that is what man BECAME.

Wow.  I must admit that is also a compelling argument.  Ok, now I'm more confused than ever.  I guess sticking to "I just trust God" is going to have to be sufficient for me now.   :bigGrin:

Shawn, have you read j. Preston Eby's "Just What Do You Mean, Man Is a Free Moral Agent"?  It may be best to not tussle with it too much here in the discussion forum, but it's on the TM homepage.

[Quaesitor]

L.Ray Smith says;  Now listen carefully. When a scientist creates an experiment or machine that malfunctions, is he responsible for the malfunction? Yes. Does he hold the experiment or machine responsible? No. Does he hold God responsible? No. Okay.

Now then, according to Christendom, when God creates an experiment or machine that malfunctions, is He responsible for the malfunction? No. Does He hold the experiment or machine responsible? Yes. Does He hold man responsible? Yes. See the wisdom?

I have just shown you one reason why God calls the WISDOM of this world, STUPIDITY!

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness [Greek: stupidity] with God. For it is written, He takes the wise in their own craftiness" (I Cor. 3:19).

First, Christendom assumes that God's creation of humans malfunctioned -- they did NOT!

Second, they assume that God is not responsible and does not take responsibility -- He DOES!

One unscriptural assumption added to another unscriptural assumption does not equal a Bible Truth!

Few indeed have ever stopped long enough to consider that just maybe God intended for the world to be in the hellish mess that we find it. Not for all eternity, but for the present, for a period of time, for a great purpose. It just seems so wrong to Christian thought to believe that God would have purposed such an evil and unhappy world. But look at the alternative. Are we to believe that God tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to make a good creation, but was unaware of its potential to run amok? And ever since, God must therefore either lack the love for humanity to straighten it out, or He lacks the power and ability. But either way it disowns God's sovereignty and presents us with a God Who either CANNOT or WILL NOT STOP THE INSANITY! They would have us believe that God's solution to rid the world of sin and evil is to torture most of humanity in fire for all eternity.

The whole idea is blasphemous. If a carnal-minded human can take responsibility for an invention that malfunctions, I submit, that God is bigger and more responsible than puny man. Be it known to all that God takes full responsibility for His creation, and absolutely nothing in His creation is malfunctioning. Here's the proof:

Let's look at a little understood Scripture.

"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that's God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!

The force of these verses in Rom. 8:20-22 is inescapable. It was God HIMSELF Who subjected the whole creation to vanity, and He didn't ask anyone's permission before He did it. And it is only God Himself Who will deliver the whole creation from the bondage of corruption, pain, and suffering. Make no mistake about it: God is the Creator of evil, and He takes full responsibility for the deliverance from the consequences of all the evils that have caused the creation to "groan and travail in PAIN until NOW" as Paul describes. God takes responsibility for the temporary failures of creation so that He can take all the credit and glory for its successes.

This post is so powerful.  Long before I was introduced to these kinds of concepts being taught God doesn't create evil...I believed otherwise.  If God is all knowing, he knew before creation the results of creation.  If he is all powerful he is able to stop said evils.  That must mean that even the evils of this world are used for his perfect will and plan.

The greatest thing about this marvelous post is that it only make sense if one believe in UR.

Like the jars made for vile usage and those for honorable usage, if God choose to hardens someone's heart only to send him into an everlasting torture, then he is to be called evil.

But since God knows that at last everything will be for the good, if he knows that one day he'll be all in all, then all the sufferings here are nothing compared to the greatness of that future.

[peacemaker]

"Few men desire liberty; the majority are satisfied with a just master."

No longer sold into slavery; bondage.
Free from captivity.

peacemaker

[shawn]

Almost every Christian I know makes that statement Tim, but NOWHERE in scripture does it say God created the devil/satan.

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 2:15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Doesn't the first scripture I quoted, mean that He created satan and everything else?

Hi shadow I agree and have used those scriptures to show satans reconciliation.
But satan is just a title and not a proper name it means adversary.
So although God created all things, He created them good and by departing from His will they became evil.
Therefore God did not create satan(the adversary), satan created himself. Just as God never created man with sin, man disobeyed and became a sinner. Sinner is not a proper name but because of disobedience that is what man BECAME.

Wow.  I must admit that is also a compelling argument.  Ok, now I'm more confused than ever.  I guess sticking to "I just trust God" is going to have to be sufficient for me now.   :bigGrin:

Shawn, have you read j. Preston Eby's "Just What Do You Mean, Man Is a Free Moral Agent"?  It may be best to not tussle with it too much here in the discussion forum, but it's on the TM homepage.

I can't really say that I have.

[jabcat]

LOL, you answered my question.  What I really meant was to suggest it to you.  Now that's funny.  Good answer.   :laugh2:

[jabcat]

Here you go.  http://www.tentmaker.org/books/FreeMoralAgent-Eby.html

[shawn]

Thanks Jab  :bigGrin:

[jabcat]

 :wink3:

[thinktank]

I'm not so keen on Preston I think he has a spirit of anger about him, there's a lot of things I haven't read from him yet though.

[Beloved Servant]

Anger in Preston Eby?

[willieH]

I'm not so keen on Preston I think he has a spirit of anger about him, there's a lot of things I haven't read from him yet though.

:omg:  You must be reading a different "J. Preston Eby"...

He is of most GENTLE writers in Christianity that I have ever read! 

What particular article have you read of his that appeared "ANGRY", T-tank?  :dontknow:

I'm thinking you might be confusing EBY with L. Ray Smith... (although L. Ray has no "spirit of anger", just very little tolerance for LIES and EVIL reports of the WORD)

...willieH  :cloud9:

[thinktank]

I can't remember, I went to his main site and quickly read some of his articles and lot's of words popped out such as blaspehmous, antichrist and anger towards certain teachings. You are right, I judged to quickly, but I just wanted to know whether he is trustworthy before I read some of his writings, whether someone else felt the same as me.

[Beloved Servant]

" I can't remember, I went to his main site and quickly read..." — T-Tank



What a good lesson we all can learn from this.

lol

We should Think before we Tank.

[Shadow]

I can't remember, I went to his main site and quickly read some of his articles and lot's of words popped out such as blaspehmous, antichrist and anger towards certain teachings. You are right, I judged to quickly, but I just wanted to know whether he is trustworthy before I read some of his writings, whether someone else felt the same as me.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, as I hate the ET doctrine with a passion myself, I can understand his anger towards it  :happy3:

I don't see many christians throwing their toys out of the pram when many of them create websites that imply we are worthless scum deserving of ET simply for being born, and it's gracious of God to save a few as we all deserve nothing but hell, God would still be loving if he sent everyone to hell.......Forgive me if I don't agree, even my own father doesn't think so little of me

case in point

http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/predestination/predestination_slick.htm

If christian decorum (or the lack thereof) means so much to you check this out...uncouth and totally boorish to say the least, even judging by non-christian standards

http://www.1john57.com/213refutations.htm

Here it is debunked by someone far more courteous and civilized, that seems to show the fruits of the spirit (IMHO)

http://www.tentmaker.org/contending.htm

[Quaesitor]

I can't remember, I went to his main site and quickly read some of his articles and lot's of words popped out such as blaspehmous, antichrist and anger towards certain teachings. You are right, I judged to quickly, but I just wanted to know whether he is trustworthy before I read some of his writings, whether someone else felt the same as me.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, as I hate the ET doctrine with a passion myself, I can understand his anger towards it  :happy3:

I don't see many christians throwing their toys out of the pram when many of them create websites that imply we are worthless scum deserving of ET simply for being born, and it's gracious of God to save a few as we all deserve nothing but hell, God would still be loving if he sent everyone to hell.......Forgive me if I don't agree, even my own father doesn't think so little of me

case in point

http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/predestination/predestination_slick.htm

If christian decorum (or the lack thereof) means so much to you check this out...uncouth and totally boorish to say the least, even judging by non-christian standards

http://www.1john57.com/213refutations.htm

Here it is debunked by someone far more courteous and civilized, that seems to show the fruits of the spirit (IMHO)

http://www.tentmaker.org/contending.htm

Went to the 2nd link and I don't understand his use of 2 Peter 2:10 to justify free will, anybody?

[thinktank]

" I can't remember, I went to his main site and quickly read..." — T-Tank



What a good lesson we all can learn from this.

lol

We should Think before we Tank.

I think I have good instincts and I wanted to test to see if someone else felt the same and honest shadow did pick up that he had anger towards ET, preachers, so I must have sensed that.

I agree though that we should generally Think before we Tank :laughing7: