Tentmaker Forum

gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:09:44 AM
gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)

:icon_flower:

Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.   :icon_flower:

babes unto Sons, each being  where we are  at UNTIL. :icon_flower:

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:09:44 AM
The ones that does the Fathers will.

What exactly is His Will?

peacemaker

PAUL TO TIMOTHY (1)
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.

Hi Taffy,

I love John 12:32, but it does not teach what you say and think it teaches. This wonderful scripture teaches about the story in Numbers 21:5-9 where the Israelite people who looked at the serpent lifted up by Moses were healed. The point of this illustration is the"lifted up". Just as Moses lifted the snake on the pole so that all who looked upon it might live physically, those who look to Christ, who was lifted up on the cross, will live spiritually and eternally.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:09:44 AM
gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)

Sadie, I do believe there is an individual time when one is given the faith to believe, i.e., be saved.  Some now who are the first-fruits, then those at His coming, and then the rest, when all is subjected to the Father and God becomes all in all.

However, do you, or do you know anyone that lives every minute in 100% total obedience to the Word of God?  For instance, the Apostle Paul apparently didn't, and I'll contend there are no greater saints than he, then or now.  Do you believe "doing the Father's will" is by our strength and self-conjured faith, or as a result of the Spirit's indwelling and empowerment, i.e., God's Spirit working through those that have been given the faith to believe?  

Mod note:  Sadie, you already told me what I was "incorrectly doing with scripture", now you've told Taf he doesn't know what a certain scripture means and that you do know.  Please post in the spirit of "in my opinion" or "as I understand it", which is actually still a good word to us all.  Self-proclaimed experts wear thin quickly.  James.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:09:44 AM
gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)

So how do you live in total obedience to the word of God and disobey it?

Hi peacemaker,

Jesus was always doing the Fathers will on the earth... look at his life..we are to follow it.

I believe God's will is to love Him with all of our heart and love your neighbor as yourself. If you are doing these chances are you will be reconciling sinners back to the Father through Jesus.

Good question Paul.  I missed that.   :laughing7:

P.S. Sadie;  What do you personally believe happens to #1 and #2 category in your illustration?  Do they go burn in hell forever, or something else?  Straight-forward question.

Quote from: jabcat on September 15, 2009, 06:46:15 AM
Good question Paul.  I missed that.   :laughing7:

P.S. Sadie;  What do you personally believe happens to #1 and #2 category in your illustration?  Do they go burn in hell forever, or something else?

Yeah, Good question yourself,  is this round 3 or 4?

Hi jabcat,

Sorry to sound like a know it all (I know I'm not), but I do not interpret scripture " in my opinion" "as I understand it", I guess is ok.  My future adresses, I wil try to remember to do that. Thanks.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:32:50 AM
Hi Taffy,

I love John 12:32, but it does not teach what you say and think it teaches. This wonderful scripture teaches about the story in Numbers 21:5-9 where the Israelite people who looked at the serpent lifted up by Moses were healed. The point of this illustration is the"lifted up". Just as Moses lifted the snake on the pole so that all who looked upon it might live physically, those who look to Christ, who was lifted up on the cross, will live spiritually and eternally.

Hi Sadie, it teaches that if he be lifted up, he will draw all men to him. This is concerning the death that he would die. The death that he would die is the judgment of the world. It is assurance that all will be saved from sin. Jesus will drag all men to him....just like Jhn 12:32 says.

Hey Seth,

I respect your view but believe it is your own interperation and not what God originally meant that scripture to mean. :icon_flower:

Paul and jabcat,

I believe if The new heaven and new earth are eternal, so is lake of fire.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 07:16:28 AM
I believe if The new heaven and new earth are eternal, so is lake of fire.

And what is the Lake of Fire?

peacemaker

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 07:16:28 AM
Paul and jabcat,

I believe if The new heaven and new earth are eternal, so is lake of fire.

What scripture do you have that draws the conclusion that the new heaven and new earth are eternal?   

Not looking for an exact phrase, just the manner in which you see scripture saying this.

Thank you for your response to my request, and thank you for your reply to my question.  Regarding - "I do not interpret scripture " in my opinion" "as I understand it" -  I personally believe we all only understand in part, look through a glass darkly, and therefor all operate under different levels of veiledness - until He reveals to us.  

There is much studying (and mostly, much to be revealed) about things like aion (mistranslated as 'eternal'), what (Who) the Lake of Fire is, the ages to come, the purpose of the ages to come, etc.  Please don't get so locked into what you believe that you may miss what He may want you to see.

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the honor of kings to search out a matter. (Pr. 25:2)

James.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:45:07 AM
Jesus was always doing the Fathers will on the earth... look at his life..we are to follow it.

I believe God's will is to love Him with all of our heart and love your neighbor as yourself. If you are doing these chances are you will be reconciling sinners back to the Father through Jesus.

And what about laying one's own life down for that of another?

peacemaker

Paul,

I don't know what you believe, but if you don't know that the new heaven and earth are eternal Glory with the Godhead I suggest you study a liitle more.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 07:16:28 AM
Paul and jabcat,

I believe if The new heaven and new earth are eternal, so is lake of fire.

I have not found, even in our inaccurate English translations, anywhere stated in the Bible that the lake of fire is eternal.  (You'd do yourself a well to read some of the literature on "eternal," the Greek "eon," and Hebrew "olam" at www.tentmaker.org)

The Bible says the lake of fire is "the second death" and that Jesus will abolish all death (1 Cointhians 15:26, see vs.22 through 28.) It is also written, not only that there shall be no more death, but that, "Neither shall there be any more pain." (Revelation 21:4, AV)  Whatever pain was for will have been done.  God also tells us that it already has been done. (Rv 21:6)  There is a realm now in which pain, death, and mourning already are not.  It is "in Christ!"

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:09:44 AM
gang,
There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

I know you missed an important kind of Christian because I was that kind.  This other category which you omitted was described by the apostle Paul.  This was not taught where I was starting out so I suffered horribly within because I seemed so other than a real or true "born from above" being. 

Romans 7:15-25 (Concordant Literal Translation)....
15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing.
16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal.
17 Yet now it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin making its home in me.
18 For I am aware that good is not making its home in me (that is, in my flesh), for to will is lying beside me, yet to be effecting the ideal is not.
19 For it is not the good that I will that I am doing, but the evil that I am not willing, this I am putting into practice.
20 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin which is making its home in me.
21 Consequently, I am finding the law that, at my willing to be doing the ideal, the evil is lying beside me.
22 For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,
23 yet I am observing a different law in my members, warring with the law of my mind, and leading me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace!
25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

I wondered for a long time, even with Bible verses, if God was anointing me so I had power to do differently, or if because of His presence I was different.  Thinking His Spirit was helping me, I tried very hard in many ways and it didn't work.  I found it is not about our change.  It is about His presence.

I have a gay friend who has at least temporarily fallen away from following Jesus because of this very thing.  He says if anyone tried to change it was him.  "It just didn't work."  That is a faulty understanding of salvation.  Let me repeat:  It is not about our change.  It is about entering into His presence.

Hi reformer,

i think you meant to say Romans and not Corinthians. :thumbsup: Anyways, I dont follow you. These scriptures teach living life in the flesh.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:09:44 AM
gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)

What exactly is your agenda, are you coming on here implying that most of the people on here are not christians, in my case its true I dont identify as christian, as I don't want to wear a label that for the most part is worn by a bunch of 2 faced lying hypocrites, like those that are quite content with the thought that the vast majority of mankind by default, just for being born is headed for a literal eternal hell (in their own eyes), and are totally unbothered by the concept

How totally arrogant of you to assume that the vast majority of people on here are false converts and that you are the only true convert on here (which is what you are getting at, isn't it)

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 08:36:02 AM
Hi reformer,

i think you meant to say Romans and not Corinthians. :thumbsup: Anyways, I dont follow you. These scriptures teach living life in the flesh.

Yeah, I changed it to read "Romans."  Thanx.

It's not just a flippant response:  If you aren't living "in the flesh" (incarnate,) you are dead.  A corpse is all that'd be left here.  I have friends that weren't great sinners and have had to tolerate the fact that they haven't had to deal so radically with the root of their carnal self nature.  I don't know if they just don't know themselves maybe.  They also haven't gotten into helping others with such problems.  The testimony of Paul I quoted is part of many people's struggle with the sin nature.  He does describe a category you missed:  "I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."  If you read on into chpt 8 you find torment for those disposed to the flesh and life and peace for those disposed to the spirit.  That is what happens as we are trained by the Holy Spirit.  We are worked on by God so we develop into His likeness, into being similar in character, and that while we are in the flesh.  This means, "Always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest."  That can only happen because we have an unchanged flesh nature we must learn to carry about while dying to it.  That means something is still in the room we left to come into the new room we're finding our identity is in.  "If we suffer with Him, we will reign with Him."  In order that we reign over the Adamic world God has us suffer to be conformed to His image of His Son.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:09:44 AM
There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

4] The twisters of the word. The socalled scriptual bombers.

Hi Sadie,

Does a true Christian love his/her enemies?  Did God love us while we were yet enemies (by nature children of wrath).   Why do you suppose God loved a world full of rebellious sinners?

Anne

Quote from: WhiteWings on September 15, 2009, 09:53:54 AM

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:09:44 AM
There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

4] The twisters of the word. The socalled scriptual bombers.

:cloud9:  :laughing7:

Quote from: Shadow on September 15, 2009, 08:37:30 AM

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:09:44 AM
gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)

What exactly is your agenda, are you coming on here implying that most of the people on here are not christians, in my case its true I dont identify as christian, as I don't want to wear a label that for the most part is worn by a bunch of 2 faced lying hypocrites, like those that are quite content with the thought that the vast majority of mankind by default, just for being born is headed for a literal eternal hell (in their own eyes), and are totally unbothered by the concept

How totally arrogant of you to assume that the vast majority of people on here are false converts and that you are the only true convert on here (which is what you are getting at, isn't it)

It is more fallacy.  Come to a place and make inflammatory statements then when they get critisized for being ridiculous they can claim that we are bothered by the truth.   

gang,

Wait a minute. I'm not implying that people on this site our not Christians.. I said the body of Christ is packed with false converts.. True Christians are not hypocrites only the religious non-born again ones that are Christian in name only. I'm not saying that true Christians don't make mistakes..they do and I have made my share ,but they continually are growing in God's grace and maturing spiritually to not become hypocrites. :2c:

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 04:07:44 PM
gang,

Wait a minute. I'm not implying that people on this site our not Christians.. I said the body of Christ is packed with false converts.. True Christians are not hypocrites only the religious non-born again ones that are Christian in name only. I'm not saying that true Christians don't make mistakes..they do and I have made my share ,but they continually are growing in God's grace and maturing spiritually to not become hypocrites. :2c:

That's good because the greatest evidence of a hypocrite is someone who implies that what they believe makes them not one and so many others are.

Quote from: ww
4] The twisters of the word. The socalled scriptual bombers.

Back in the olden days they were just called 'Bible Thumpers'.    Never heard that one before.  It's about time we got some new terminology though  :happygrin:

I bet you've heard this before: 'The reason you don't see it my way is because you are DECEIVED and if you knew you were DECEIVED then Satan could not deceive you, cuz you'd know it.'   Yeah, right.  Be afraid - be very afraid - that is what faith requires.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 07:13:39 AM
Hey Seth,

I respect your view but believe it is your own interperation and not what God originally meant that scripture to mean. :icon_flower:

.....nuh uh!!!  lol...just kidding.  :HeartThrob:

I don't know if I'm a "christian" or not...
but I do know that God loves me.
And really...that's all I care about.
That's the only thing that is important.
God doesn't see labels.
He sees the heart.
peace.

If your heart is a peacemaker you are on safe ground  :laughing7:

hi Sparrow,

I't saddens me to hear say " I don't know if I'm a Christian". :sigh: Do you know how you can know Sparrow? When you disobey God's word.. do you feel remorseful and convicted by the Holy Spirit? When you sin against God do you confess it? Do you have desire to meditate on God's word... or do you have difficulty finding your bible and when you find it..does it have an inch of dust on it?.. Do you make time to spend with God in worship and prayer? Are you still living a sinful lifestyle with no conviction? You see Sparrow when you are truly regenerated..God replaces your heart of stone and gives you a heart of flesh to give you these disires to please Him..and not only that the Holy Spirit makes your spirit alive and dwells there... the Holy Spirit testifies to your spirit that you are a child of God by which you cry out Abba Father.  :icon_flower:

Ahem!!!, I think your post was directed at sparrow and not Shadow, as Shadow does not consider herself a christian, whereas sparrow is not sure whether she is a christian

Shadow uses the label that mainstream christians would see her and perhaps label her as, an agnostic theist or deist (or if the christian is feeling particularly unkind and not so charitable - an apostate or heretic) as Shadow abhors and detests the eternal torture doctrine with every fibre of her being, and that by default excludes her as being classified as a true christian

Hi shadow,

Thanks..changed it. Not believing in ET or believing in UR does not exclude sparrow or any other person of being a Christian. You can be  truly saved and believe in false doctrine but that does not exclude you from being a Christian. What does exclude you of being a Christian is not repenting and believing on Jesus Christ for His payment for  the penalty of your sin God's way...by grace through faith and not by your works or your own self-righteous way. :icon_flower:

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 09:53:51 PM
Hi shadow,

Thanks..changed it. Not believing in ET or believing in UR does not exclude sparrow or any other person of being a Christian. You can be  truly saved and believe in false doctrine but that does not exclude you from being a Christian. What does exclude you of being a Christian is not repenting and believing on Jesus Christ for His payment for  the penalty of your sin God's way...by grace through faith and not by your works or your own self-righteous way. :icon_flower:

Thanks for that clarification :icon_flower:

I think most of us have repented and believe in salvation through Christ alone and realize that he has taken the penalty for our sins, I don't think you will find anyone on here that will dispute or argue with you there

It's just that on most other forums and churches, people that embrace this larger hope for mankind are ostracized and not considered as true christians

Hi shadow,

As long as your foundation is the True Jesus of the bible and you build upon that solid rock of Jesus.. other essential christian doctrine..such as the Diety of Jesus and the trinity. if you are truly born again, believing in false doctrine will not prevent you on going to heaven as long as you have the proper foundation under you. Make sense?  :icon_flower:

I consider myself a Christian because I am a follower of Jesus.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 10:21:21 PM
if you are truly born again, believing in false doctrine will not prevent you on going to heaven as long as you have the proper foundation under you.

But can you be born again if you believe in a false doctrine?
Isn't a false doctrine just as bad as no doctrine at all?
An atheist isn't born again because he doesn't believe in Father/Son/HS
But does someone that follows a false doctrine believe in the true Father/Son/HS?
Believing in a doctrine means believing God does certain things in a certain way. And that shows the personality of God.
But what if your idea of Gods personallity is totally wrong don't you just believe in a false image/god.
Meaning believing in something that doesn't exit. Because there is only one God you believe in that one true God or basicly you are the as any pagan.

Hi Whitewing,

absolutely people can be truly be born again and believe in false doctrine. like i said before as long as you have the proper foundation under you ( Biblical Jesus, Jesus' Deity, the Trinity, grace through faith salvation meaning Jesus plus nothing, grace alone) you will go to heaven. Jesus even said the elect might be fooled by the AntiChrist with his counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders.  :icon_flower:

Hi molly,

one becomes a Christian not by following Him, but by repenting and believing on Jesus for the payment of the penalty of your sin.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 10:21:21 PM
Hi shadow,

As long as your foundation is the True Jesus of the bible and you build upon that solid rock of Jesus.. other essential christian doctrine..such as the Diety of Jesus and the trinity. if you are truly born again, believing in false doctrine will not prevent you on going to heaven as long as you have the proper foundation under you. Make sense?  :icon_flower:

I have looked up all occurrences of the word "Christian" in the New Testament, and I find no official Biblical definition meaning anything approaching "A Christian is..." So I find no mention of a necessity to believe in the trinity, or anything close to the statement "one becomes a Christian not by following Him..."

So I am left to conclude that the definition of who is a Christian provided above to be one of your own making. I am therefore not subject to your own interpretations.

Hi Seth,

if you want to know who a real follower of Christ is or Christian ,look no further to 1 JOHN. Read that book and the Apostle John teaches who the true child of God is ( or Christian). If you don't believe in the God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, that is the Godhead..this is who God is..one God..3 persons. if you have that wrong..God knows how much more false doctrine you believe in. I hope for your sake you believe in the trinity or the Godhead. If you do not..you would be like the Pharisee...they did not believe in the Godhead either.. look what happened to them..Read Matthew 23..God bless.

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 11:08:01 PM
Hi Whitewing,

absolutely people can be truly be born again and believe in false doctrine. like i said before as long as you have the proper foundation under you ( Biblical Jesus, Jesus' Deity, the Trinity, grace through faith salvation meaning Jesus plus nothing, grace alone) you will go to heaven. Jesus even said the elect might be fooled by the AntiChrist with his counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders.  :icon_flower:

Hi Sadie, after writing this, on what grounds is your objection to God saving all mankind?

Quote from: Sadie on September 16, 2009, 12:15:03 AM
Hi Seth,

if you want to know who a real follower of Christ is or Christian ,look no further to 1 JOHN. Read that book and the Apostle John teaches who the true child of God is ( or Christian). If you don't believe in the God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, that is the Godhead..this is who God is..one God..3 persons. if you have that wrong..God knows how much more false doctrine you believe in. I hope for your sake you believe in the trinity or the Godhead. If you do not..you would be like the Pharisee...they did not believe in the Godhead either.. look what happened to them..Read Matthew 23..God bless.

If 1 John is the definition of Christian then it confirms Molly's statements: I am a Christian because I follow Christ. Have YOU really read 1 John?

There is no mention of the phrases "God the Son" "God the Holy Spirit" in 1 John and therefore there is no reason I must believe that adopting those terms is necessary for a Christian. Sorry, if you want to talk scripture, then how about using scriptural terms rather than Christianese?


I forgot to add, no I don't believe in "the trinity."

From what I understand, everything concerning the title given to early believers by outsiders as a slanderous term, and that the term was not used by believers themselves until much later in history, I do not refer to myself as a Christian, nor would I refer to any of you as such either. We are no mere followers of Christ, we are as he is. (That's in 1John, since that book came up recently in the discussion) I consider you all as you truly are, as holy ones, believers, chosen ones. I do not wish to define these, for what they are is so much more than a mere human definition. They speak of the miraculous, that miracle that each and every one of you are in Christ.
:HeartThrob:

Ron

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 11:11:27 PM
Hi molly,

one becomes a Christian not by following Him, but by repenting and believing on Jesus for the payment of the penalty of your sin.

Sadie, repentance and believing on Jesus is a fully spiritual thing rather than what a person can physically observe.

For instance, if a person just "says" they have repented and "says" they believe on Jesus could be a ploy depending upon the situation. The act of repentance is soley and exclusively a nameless spiritual event.   We do have the word of God to act as a guide so that we can discuss these things in our language, but I know that I knew what Christ was before I was ever old enough to understand an english name to place to what I knew.

If indeed there is only one truth then repentance can only have one true source.

So nothing actually prevents someone who has the spirit of repentance, but believes a false doctrine such as "atheism" from being truly saved.

Quote from: gregoryfl on September 16, 2009, 12:35:11 AM
From what I understand, everything concerning the title given to early believers by outsiders as a slanderous term, and that the term was not used by believers themselves until much later in history, I do not refer to myself as a Christian, nor would I refer to any of you as such either. We are no mere followers of Christ, we are as he is. (That's in 1John, since that book came up recently in the discussion) I consider you all as you truly are, as holy ones, believers, chosen ones. I do not wish to define these, for what they are is so much more than a mere human definition. They speak of the miraculous, that miracle that each and every one of you are in Christ.
:HeartThrob:

Ron

:cloud9: Thank you Ron........that hit me powerfully what you wrote and explained to me why that term has set my teeth on edge a little for a few years now. What just hit me when I read what you wrote, is if you're a follower, it means you're not "where" He is standing NOW, but where He WAS!

Father, make us so one with You that there is NO GAP.......Blessings....

Hi Seth,

The Jehovah Witness and other false Christian sects do not believe in the Godhead either. The doctrine of the trinity or Godhead..I believe is an essential foundation of Christian faith. I can understand if you don't understand the Godhead, but to flat out deny its exsistence..is denying God himself.  To deny the Godhead is to deny Jesus Christ.  You can't have Jesus without the Godhead. All three have their role in salvation. i hope others who read this understands that. To not understand the Godhead or trinity is totally different than to deny its existence. i hope this forum understands this. Seth, my freind, I will pray for salvation.

Quote from: Sadie on September 16, 2009, 12:54:04 AM
Hi Seth,

The Jehovah Witness and other false Christian sects do not believe in the Godhead either. The doctrine of the trinity or Godhead..I believe is an essential foundation of Christian faith. I can understand if you don't understand the Godhead, but to flat out deny its exsistence..is denying God himself.  To deny the Godhead is to deny Jesus Christ.  You can't have Jesus without the Godhead. All three have their role in salvation. i hope others who read this understands that. To not understand the Godhead or trinity is totally different than to deny its existence. i hope this forum understands this. Seth, my freind, I will pray for salvation.

Belief or understanding of the trinity is a religious persuasion and is not in any form a requirement of salvation.

Quote from: Sadie on September 16, 2009, 12:54:04 AM
Hi Seth,

The Jehovah Witness and other false Christian sects do not believe in the Godhead either. The doctrine of the trinity or Godhead..I believe is an essential foundation of Christian faith. I can understand if you don't understand the Godhead, but to flat out deny its exsistence..is denying God himself.  To deny the Godhead is to deny Jesus Christ.  You can't have Jesus without the Godhead. All three have their role in salvation. i hope others who read this understands that. To not understand the Godhead or trinity is totally different than to deny its existence. i hope this forum understands this. Seth, my freind, I will pray for salvation.

WARNING

Sadie PLZ Stop it with these judgments

if one was to DENY Christ ,its BY works...HIS ...Eph 2 8-10

Tts 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.  

Quote from: Sadie on September 16, 2009, 12:54:04 AM
Hi Seth,

The Jehovah Witness and other false Christian sects do not believe in the Godhead either. The doctrine of the trinity or Godhead..I believe is an essential foundation of Christian faith. I can understand if you don't understand the Godhead, but to flat out deny its exsistence..is denying God himself.  To deny the Godhead is to deny Jesus Christ.  You can't have Jesus without the Godhead. All three have their role in salvation. i hope others who read this understands that. To not understand the Godhead or trinity is totally different than to deny its existence. i hope this forum understands this. Seth, my freind, I will pray for salvation.

Concerning the bolded blue: you are free to believe whatever you like. Like I said, I am not subject to your interpretations. Nowhere in the Bible is ANYONE commanded to believe in a trinity in order to be a Christian. So you are out of line to suggest people of this forum are not Christians for not believing in your definition of Christian which is not in the Bible.

Considering your suggestion that I am "denying God himself" and therefore "denying Jesus Christ" and therefore "praying for my salvation" I direct your attention to this moderating comment:

--------

"We do not believe we are better than other Christians so likewise, afford us the same respect by not implying we are deceived, disillusioned, led by satan et al.

People doing that will find their stay here at Tentmaker very short lived."

--------

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=2695.0

willieH: Hi Sadie... :hithere:

Quote from: Sadie on September 14, 2009, 10:57:36 PM
I love talking about God.

Would you answer ONE QUESTION?

Just curious, you wouldn't happen to be ---> CoG37 or Lee100 ...would you?  A simple "yes or no" answer would suffice, ...thanks!   :ty:

If no...  Hey -- glad to have you aboard!!!  :newb:  :welcome:  :friendstu:

If yes... why continue the charade?  :dontknow:

Seth,

God almighty is one God made up of three persons. Therefore, if God is made up of three persons, if you deny one you deny God. What part of the Godhead do you not believe? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is not God? Do you believe Jesus is not God? Do you believe the Father is not God? Please explain. My spirit is grieved and quenched by having this discussion. :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh:

Quote from: Sadie on September 16, 2009, 01:29:11 AM
Seth,

God almighty is one God made up of three persons. Therefore, if God is made up of three persons, if you deny one you deny God. What part of the Godhead do you not believe? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is not God? Do you believe Jesus is not God? Do you believe the Father is not God? Please explain. My spirit is grieved and quenched by having this discussion. :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh:

I believe in The Father
I believe in The Holy Spirit
I believe in The son

I just don't believe in them as you do. Again, there is NO ADMONITION in the Bible that one must believe in YOUR interpretation of "three persons" ....yet ANOTHER unscriptural term. Why do you define a scriptural term like Christian with unscriptural terms then accuse other people of denying God for not subscribing to your own terms and interpretations?

Reference: http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 09:32:51 PM
hi Sparrow,

I't saddens me to hear say " I don't know if I'm a Christian". :sigh: Do you know how you can know Sparrow? When you disobey God's word.. do you feel remorseful and convicted by the Holy Spirit? When you sin against God do you confess it? Do you have desire to meditate on God's word... or do you have difficulty finding your bible and when you find it..does it have an inch of dust on it?.. Do you make time to spend with God in worship and prayer? Are you still living a sinful lifestyle with no conviction? You see Sparrow when you are truly regenerated..God replaces your heart of stone and gives you a heart of flesh to give you these disires to please Him..and not only that the Holy Spirit makes your spirit alive and dwells there... the Holy Spirit testifies to your spirit that you are a child of God by which you cry out Abba Father.  :icon_flower:

The label of "christian" means absolutely nothing to me.

Quote from: Sadie on September 16, 2009, 01:29:11 AM
Seth,

God almighty is one God made up of three persons.

This is a religious interpretation and assertion and not a factor of salvation whether it is true or not.

When it comes to religious assertions sadie I can prove you are damned if indeed this is the road you wish to be on.

  John 13;34   as I have loved you,so you must love one another.

  By this,all men will know that you are my disciples,if you love

  one another.

   This is how we can know we are Christians...we can do many

   things,but if done without love it is to no benefit.
   

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 10:21:21 PM
Hi shadow,

As long as your foundation is the True Jesus of the bible and you build upon that solid rock of Jesus.. other essential christian doctrine..such as the Diety of Jesus and the trinity. if you are truly born again, believing in false doctrine will not prevent you on going to heaven as long as you have the proper foundation under you. Make sense?  :icon_flower:

I'm jumping in to say that this doesn't make sense to me because when you say the True Jesus of the Bible, I immediately think about the fact that there was a time when a man named Jesus walked the earth and there was no New Testament, yet he was still the 'True Jesus' and before the foundation of the world Jesus was the True Jesus (according to the scriptures).  And also, when you say 'believe', i get the distinct feeling that you are talking about a certain mental ascent that somehow mysteriously keeps you from being on the highway to hell. 

To be perfectly honest with you, Sadie, I think if any of us had the desire, we probably have enough of the scripture inside us to convince you that you're lost and that you're not a true Christian if that were our desire to do such a thing, but that is not the message we have heard from our Father in heaven - it is not the good news and that is why we do not set about trying to convince and convict the world of sin, because it has already been done.  The messengers of God are sent to tell those in hades the good news.  I'll be happy when that reality shines forth in your heart and you can "see" it by the Spirit.

anne

There is one body and ONE SPIRIT—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism; ONE SPIRIT (GOD) and Father of ALL, who is over ALL and through ALL and in ALL. (Ephesians 4:4~6)

Now about spiritual gifts, brother(s), I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or another you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore, I tell you that no one who is speaking WITH the SPIRIT of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except WITH the HOLY SPIRIT [of GOD].

There are different kinds of gifts, but the same SPIRIT. There are different kinds of service, but the same LORD. There are different kinds of working, but the same GOD WHO works ALL of them in ALL MEN.

Now, to each one the manifestation of the SPIRIT is given for the common good. To one there is given through the SPIRIT the message of WISDOM, to another the message of KNOWLEDGE by means of the same SPIRIT, to another FAITH with the same SPIRIT, to another gifts of HEALING WITH THAT ONE SPIRIT, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between Spirits, to another speaking in other kinds of languages, and to still another the interpretation of that language.

All these are the work of ONE and the same SPIRIT, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines (NOT YOU).

The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized with ONE SPIRIT into ONE BODY—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were ALL given the ONE SPIRIT TO DRINK.

Now, the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If, the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If, the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If, they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"

On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable, we treat with special honor. And the parts that are un-presentable, are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God [SPIRIT OF] has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If, one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

Now, you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of languages.

Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in other languages? Do all interpret?

But eagerly desire the greater gifts.

And now I will show you the most excellent way.

If, I speak in the different languages of men and am a messenger, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If, I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if, I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If, I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are different languages, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now, we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now, I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And NOW these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is Love.

"The Father and I are ONE SPIRIT."

PEACEMAKER

Peacemaker.. Thank you for posting that.  :HeartThrob:

Quote from: sparrow on September 16, 2009, 04:55:39 AM
Peacemaker.. Thank you for posting that.  :HeartThrob:

You're most welcome, Sparrow.  :boyheart:

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 11:08:01 PM
Hi Whitewing,

absolutely people can be truly be born again and believe in false doctrine. like i said before as long as you have the proper foundation under you ( Biblical Jesus, Jesus' Deity, the Trinity, grace through faith salvation meaning Jesus plus nothing, grace alone) you will go to heaven. Jesus even said the elect might be fooled by the AntiChrist with his counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders.  :icon_flower:

Trinity is just a doctrine. I'm not saying it's right or wrong (not allowed by the forum rules) but lets say there is a lot of disagreement in 'church' over Father, Son, HS being a trinity or not.
So basicly you are saying: "All false doctrines are fine as long as you believe in the parts of my doctrine I just wrote down."
To me that sounds a lot like the system of the romans. You were allowed to openly worship anything you liked as long as you also woreshipped to a god the emperor liked.

How much do we really know about Jesus? If we put together all the things he said and did that we read in the NT, it probably doesn't add up to more than 1 day of talking and doing! Yet he apparently lived 33 YEARS! Just what else was he doing those 32 years and 364 days???
Some will say, "preaching the Gospel." Certainly so. But that doesn't answer the question.


The truth is that we cannot know. As a result, we must look at his APPROACH and ATTITUDE. His WAY of dealing with other people. He says that He is meek and lowly--- something most "Christians" are not. (In America, if you're meek and lowly you'll get beat up and called some names I won't put here..)

willieH: Hi Sadie... :hithere:

Still waiting for you to answer!  :dontknow:

Would you answer ONE QUESTION?

Just curious, you wouldn't happen to be ---> CoG37 or Lee100 ...would you?  A simple "yes or no" answer would suffice, ...thanks!   :ty:

If no...  Hey -- glad to have you aboard!!!  :newb:  :welcome:  :friendstu:

If yes... why continue the charade?  :dontknow:

 :cloud9: Sadie will not be replying. "Sadie" has been permanently banned. Blessings....

Quote from: whyiloveitaly on September 16, 2009, 09:38:04 AMIn America, if you're meek and lowly you'll get beat up and called some names I won't put here.

That's not true.  Not if it's Biblical meekness and lowliness rather than an attempt at meekness and lowliness out of the carnal mind, low self esteem, Buddhist ideas, other pagan ideas, et. al.  Biblical meekness and lowliness isn't weakness.  Biblical meekness and lowliness isn't blasphemously setting aside the worthiness that Christ Jesus has given you in His Covenant Blood and Sworn Oaths that make up the New Covenant.  God called Moses the meekest man on the whole planet in his generation, and yet he was absolutely no one's push over by any remote stretch of your imagination.  It's defined for you in the Psalms and Isaiah that it's trembling at the Scriptures, and the prophets and Apostles of the Bible take it a step further as a matter of your being a reincarnation of the Son of God when you've put Colossians 3:16-17 and 1John 2:5-6 skillfully into practice until every thought is taken captive to Christ Jesus as it says in 2Corinthians 10.  If you're more the Son of God this year than you were last year, in manifestation, then that's how you know you're a Christian, according to the Gospel of John and 1John 3:24 that says that His Spirit takes you over the more you continue in His already established Word.  So the growing wisdom and the growing signs and wonders is how you know, plain and simple -- Biblically.  What I just said might drive a few folks back to Isaiah 58 for a few days, but that's fine.  It's good for you to, and He'll demonstrate His fullness to you as your lover the more you do!

I don't care to be a "Christian." I am a believer. A believer is one who believes 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 etc. He believes God that Christ died for his sins.

God doesn't want us to grovel all the time in a guilt complex. He'd much rather we say: "Yea, God, I screwed up. But rather than go the rest of my life feeling sorry for my sins, I am going to rejoice that Christ died for ALL of them. Thank you Lord!"

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 06:09:44 AM
gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)

Quote from: Cardinal on September 16, 2009, 11:21:15 AM
:cloud9: Sadie will not be replying. "Sadie" has been permanently banned. Blessings....

I think that doesn't lessen the chance Willie will get an answer to his question. :laughing7:

Willie cheer up! As long new accounts can be regged there is hope your question will be answered. (An age after hell freezes over)

Meekness is a fruit of the Spirit of God.
I read it from Webster's Dictionary as:
1- enduring injury with patience and without resentment
2- deficient in spirit and courage (!)
and 3- not violent or strong.

It is this meekness that has helped me understand that God will save all.

(From my humble experience, I think many buddhists are more "christian" than many "christians" in their demonstration of true meekness.)

Are you saying we are supposed to physically shake as we open the Bible? I don't see anything "spiritual" about that, at least not as far as our interaction with other human beings goes...

Brian

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on September 16, 2009, 03:53:02 AM

Quote from: Sadie on September 15, 2009, 10:21:21 PM
Hi shadow,

As long as your foundation is the True Jesus of the bible and you build upon that solid rock of Jesus.. other essential christian doctrine..such as the Diety of Jesus and the trinity. if you are truly born again, believing in false doctrine will not prevent you on going to heaven as long as you have the proper foundation under you. Make sense?  :icon_flower:

I'm jumping in to say that this doesn't make sense to me because when you say the True Jesus of the Bible, I immediately think about the fact that there was a time when a man named Jesus walked the earth and there was no New Testament, yet he was still the 'True Jesus' and before the foundation of the world Jesus was the True Jesus (according to the scriptures).  And also, when you say 'believe', i get the distinct feeling that you are talking about a certain mental ascent that somehow mysteriously keeps you from being on the highway to hell. 

To be perfectly honest with you, Sadie, I think if any of us had the desire, we probably have enough of the scripture inside us to convince you that you're lost and that you're not a true Christian if that were our desire to do such a thing, but that is not the message we have heard from our Father in heaven - it is not the good news and that is why we do not set about trying to convince and convict the world of sin, because it has already been done.  The messengers of God are sent to tell those in hades the good news.  I'll be happy when that reality shines forth in your heart and you can "see" it by the Spirit.

anne

Tremendous thoughts Anne. I'm going to re-read them now. Thanks.

cp

Having been in several churches that each had their own flavor of how to "obey the word of God," I have come to see for myself that I had it all wrong. I had so misunderstood obedience and what I now believe God says about it for us as believers. I will start with the forerunner of the obedience that we live in today, our Lord Jesus:

Heb 5:8 though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered.

Christ did not learn "to obey." He learned "obedience." He learned that he always obeyed, and that despite how it appeared at times to others, it was expressed THROUGH him but BY another source, his Father. He learned this not by doing or trying, but solely by the work of suffering given to him by his Father's life in him, for his father saw him for who he truly was. His father was the obedience expressing himself in Jesus' life so others who had eyes to see saw the Father when they saw Jesus.

Heb 5:9 Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation,

We are indeed those who obey him, even when our "behavior" tries to tell us otherwise!!

It is the same as a lump of gold learning pureness, poetically speaking. It does not learn by doing anything, but solely by the work of suffering given to it by the hand of the one who sees it for what it is, the gold miner.

1Pe 1:6,7 Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been put to grief in various trials, that the proof of your faith, [OBEDIENCE, THE LIFE OF GOD] which is more precious than gold that perishes even though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ—

That is why this obedience is called the "obedience of faith." (Rom 1:5; 14:25) It issues out of faith, and belongs to faith, not sight. If we are looking for it with physical eyes in some "behavior" we will miss it, because, being of faith, belonging to that which is faith, it is something we can only see with eyes of faith, because just as the gold miner has to have faith that what he holds in his hand is pure gold, despite seeing so much dross, likewise by faith we understand that true obedience, the life of God within us, is just as real, despite seeing the flesh we live in, and the contradictions it portrays.

We have been placed into obedience himself, but, just as Christ had to learn it from what he suffered, so do we. Jesus was made "complete through sufferings." (Heb 12:10) This is the process during Jesus life that taught him of the obedience he had and lived in, not of what he did outwardly but of who he was inwardly.

2Co 10:6 and being in readiness to avenge all disobedience, when your obedience will be made full.

These wonderful Corinthians, you mean they had obedience? Yes they did, despite appearances. When Paul speaks of their obedience being made full, think of being completed, for that is what he means. It is the same as the contrasting fullness spoken of as sins being made full. Just as the sins of nations in the past happened until the time God said "enough," when it was full and time for judgment, so to the obedience of the Corinthians, and every other believer, the life of God within us, will also be made full, another way of saying "be made complete," and seen in the day of the judgment as complete. How will it be made complete? Not by anything of the flesh, not by what most have come to think of "obedience" as. No, but it will be by the suffering, the fiery trial, expressed in a battle wherein "imaginations and and every high thing against the knowledge of God" is brought to "the obedience of Christ." It is God who "begins the good work" and "completes it." We participate as we live, and to the extent that we believe we see it with eyes of faith.

In that battle that goes on within each of us, a daily battle against all the thoughts that try to convince us of who we are not, every one of those thoughts are being made to obey Christ. Notice that nowhere in that text are we being told to "do" anything. It is happening for us. It is spoken of as something we ARE doing. Go ahead and read it, in 2Co 10:3-5, if you like. The pureness of the gold [that proof of faith, OBEDIENCE] is being revealed more and more And this trial, just as it did with Christ, will be complete. Paul leaves no room for doubt, for he say when your obedience will be made full.

Rom 6:16 Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?

Can you see God here? He is right there in the word obedience. Let's try it this way:

Rom 6:16 Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to God, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of God to righteousness?

Paul makes this interchange seen in what he has said just before this:

Rom 6:13 Neither present your members to sin as instruments of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

As an aside, here is a list of all the scriptures which speak of obedience as it relates to God, under the new covenant. Notice the underlined portions in particular and see what common theme is expressed.

Rom 1:5  Through him we received grace and a commission as an apostle to bring about the obedience of faith among all the gentiles for the sake of his name.

Rom 6:16  Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey-either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Rom 6:17  But thank God that, though you were once slaves of sin, you became obedient from your hearts to that form of teaching with which you were entrusted!

Rom 15:18  For I am bold enough to tell you only about what Christ has accomplished through me in the bringing of gentiles to obedience. By my words and actions,

Rom 16:19  For your obedience has become known to everyone, and I am full of joy for you. But I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

Rom 16:26  but now has been made known through the prophets to all the gentiles, in keeping with the decree of the eternal God to bring them to the obedience of faith-

2Co 7:15  His heart goes out to you even more as he remembers how obedient all of you were and how you welcomed him with fear and trembling.

2Co 10:5  and every proud obstacle that is raised against the knowledge of God, taking every thought captive in order to obey Christ.
2Co 10:6  We are ready to punish every act of disobedience when your obedience is complete.

Phm 1:21  Confident of your obedience, I am writing to you because I know that you will do even more than I ask.

1Pe 1:2  the people chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father through the sanctifying work of the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with his blood. May grace and peace be yours in abundance!

1Pe 1:14  As obedient children, do not be shaped by the desires that you once had in your ignorance.

1Pe 1:22  Now that you have obeyed the truth and have purified your souls to love your brothers sincerely, you must love one another intensely and with a pure heart.

Act 6:7  So the word of God continued to spread, and the number of disciples in Jerusalem continued to grow rapidly. Even a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.

Php 2:12  And so, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you but even more now that I am absent, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Heb 5:9  and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him,

2Co 2:9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might know the proof of you, whether you are obedient in all things.


Can you see that they are statements of fact, statements of fulfillment, and not statements of possibility or of needing to be fulfilled? The last verse, 2Co 2:9, is the closest I could see that APPEAR to speak of doubt, but based on the verse in chapter 10:6...

2Co 10:6  We are ready to punish every act of disobedience when your obedience is complete.

this too speaks of certainty to me, from our standpoint seeing it transpire, but completed from God's standpoint in Christ.


Obedience is not what we do for God, but what God does through us. For Obedience ultimately is a God himself, expressed in his life, as he lives and walks in us.Our obedience to him is the symbiotic participation in that faith. Rejoice in the battle we are going through, in the trials that rage against us every day, for all of it is to reveal us as those who have "become obedient from the heart." (Rom 6:17) That obedience from the heart is nothing short of the miracle of the Life of God in Christ, our very life now!

Ron

Quote from: WhiteWings on September 16, 2009, 01:31:03 PM

Quote from: Cardinal on September 16, 2009, 11:21:15 AM
:cloud9: Sadie will not be replying. "Sadie" has been permanently banned. Blessings....

I think that doesn't lessen the chance Willie will get an answer to his question. :laughing7:

Willie cheer up! As long new accounts can be regged there is hope your question will be answered. (An age after hell freezes over)

:soap:

:cloud9: WW, you have the funniest sense of humor....... :laughing7:

And good posts all.......good points all........Blessings....

Quote from: WhiteWings on September 16, 2009, 01:31:03 PM

Quote from: Cardinal on September 16, 2009, 11:21:15 AM
:cloud9: Sadie will not be replying. "Sadie" has been permanently banned. Blessings....

I think that doesn't lessen the chance Willie will get an answer to his question. :laughing7:

Willie cheer up! As long new accounts can be regged there is hope your question will be answered. (An age after hell freezes over)

:soap:

:laugh: :laugh2: :mlaugh: :laughhand:

Quote from: willieH on September 16, 2009, 09:34:37 PM

Quote from: WhiteWings on September 16, 2009, 01:31:03 PM

Quote from: Cardinal on September 16, 2009, 11:21:15 AM
:cloud9: Sadie will not be replying. "Sadie" has been permanently banned. Blessings....

I think that doesn't lessen the chance Willie will get an answer to his question. :laughing7:

Willie cheer up! As long new accounts can be regged there is hope your question will be answered. (An age after hell freezes over)

:soap:

:laugh: :laugh2: :mlaugh: :laughhand:

Hell freezing over? Try this one.......

  HELL
  EXPLAINED BY CHEMISTRY STUDENT
 
  The
  following is an actual question given
  on a University
  of Washington chemistry
  mid term.
 
  The answer
  by one student was so "profound" that the
  professor shared it with
  colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we
  now have the
  pleasure of enjoying it as well
  :
 
 
  Bonus
  Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat)
  or endothermic (absorbs
  heat)?
  Most of the
  students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's
  Law (gas cools when it
  expands and heats when it is compressed) or some
  variant.
  One
  student, however, wrote the
  following:
  First, we
  need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So
  we need to know the
  rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at
  which they are
  leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a
  soul gets to Hell, it
  will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for
  how many souls are
  entering Hell, let's look at the different religions
  that exist in the world today.
 
  Most of
  these religions state that if you are not a member of
  their religion, you
  will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these
  religions and since
  people do not belong to more than one religion, we can
  project that all souls
  go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we
  can expect the number
  of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look
  at the rate of
  change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law
  states that in order for the
  temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the
  volume of Hell has to
  expand proportionately as souls are
  added.
  This gives
  two possibilities:
 
  1. If Hell
  is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which
  souls enter Hell, then
  the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until
  all Hell breaks
  loose.
  2. If Hell
  is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls
  in Hell,then the
  temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes
  over.
 
  So which is
  it?
  If we
  accept the postulate given to me by
  Teresa during my Freshman year that, "It will be a
  cold day in Hell before I
  sleep with you," and
  take into account the fact that I slept with her last
  night, then number two
  must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic
  and has already
  frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since
  Hell has frozen over,
  it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is
  therefore,
  extinct......leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the
  existence of a divine
  being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept
  shouting "Oh my God."
 
 
  THIS STUDENT
  RECEIVED AN A+.

cp

Does it realy matter if you are a christian ,or not?
Self righteousness ,or christianity ?
Its a truth that some are good in self-righteousness ,because they are good people .

Self-righteous judgment says: LOOK WHAT THEY DO!
Righteous judgment quietly says: I will not do that.

Quote from: Beloved Servant on September 17, 2009, 02:11:47 AM
Self-righteous judgment says: LOOK WHAT THEY DO!
Righteous judgment quietly says: I will not do that.

Hi BS :icon_flower:

For Mine, Tis,  LOOK what I do V Look what HE DOES\DID :icon_flower:

Self - righteous ness By works of the LAW, Flesh.

WE being MADE Righteousness  Through HIS BLOOD

Therefore Via Faith OUR righteousness EXCEEDS that of the Pharisees


:icon_flower:

Yes, there is an inward and an outward action.

QuoteFor Mine, Tis,  LOOK what I do V Look what HE DOES\DID

Ok So what is wrong in looking what others do ?
Should we not ?
What does this have to do with righteousness.

Righteousness is just doing what's right aint it ?

Yes, Taf.  It's about Him.  Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith - the faith He gives to believe and the grace and power He gives to live and work through us.

I definitely believe it matters whether we're a Christian/believer or not.  That's why Jesus came and what He's doing...drawing all men to Him.  When we believe and are converted, He declares us "right" (righteous) and "behold old things are passing away, and all things are becoming new". 

Quote from: V.I.D. on September 17, 2009, 02:57:40 AM

QuoteFor Mine, Tis,  LOOK what I do V Look what HE DOES\DID

Ok So what is wrong in looking what others do ?
Should we not ?
What does this have to do with righteousness.

Righteousness is just doing what's right aint it ?

:icon_flower:

Right can be defined by ANYONE, it just depends what They SEE as RIGHT, Therefore ,kinda fickle

Biblically speaking ....Righteousness \self righteousness ,as Far as Im aware, is Defined as  proposed

So being righteous is doing what Jesus likes you to do ? So you become a puppet ?

No, a vessel.

Actually, a marriage that we can not even wrap our minds around right now.

Your first idea i realy didnt like . I just never saw people as objects of use ,because they have soul ,think ,hear ,love and much more .. We are not vessels .

Marriage ? That is an interesting thought ,but i may also choose to be single . But i will think on what you said .

The Father created us.
You gotta get a hold of this.
Without Him we sit on the earth heaping ashes upon our heads.
We're just dust.
With His life-giving Spirit, we're His family.
Like Father; Like Son.

V.I.D., "some guy" posted this in March 2008.   :wink:  

"Continue in faith ! It is the best thing"  

Still sounds like good words to live by.

I try to continue in this ,though i have faith not in gods ,but rather try to believe in the good stuff ..love ..fullness ..that we are precious and many other things .
I dont like God ,or believe him ,because i dont like in what way he left the earth .

Like father ,like son ? I dont know . I will think about this ,but not now . I am tired today : 3.53 in the morning and need to go to bed . Will write tommorow .

Quote from: jabcat on September 17, 2009, 03:00:13 AM
Yes, Taf.  It's about Him.  Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith - the faith He gives to believe and the grace and power He gives to live and work through us.

I definitely believe it matters whether we're a Christian/believer or not.  That's why Jesus came and what He's doing...drawing all men to Him.  When we believe and are converted, He declares us "right" (righteous) and "behold old things are passing away, and all things are becoming new". 

:icon_flower:

Im always In AWE James,and at Times lost for words. :icon_flower:

Quote from: V.I.D. on September 17, 2009, 03:55:29 AM
I try to continue in this ,though i have faith not in gods ,but rather try to believe in the good stuff ..love ..fullness ..that we are precious and many other things .
I dont like God ,or believe him ,because i dont like in what way he left the earth .

Like father ,like son ? I dont know . I will think about this ,but not now . I am tired today : 3.53 in the morning and need to go to bed . Will write tommorow .

I may be confused, maybe not remembering correctly.  But I thought I remembered about a year and a half ago, that you prayed to Jesus with one of the TM members (not sure of details, asking forgiveness, to be saved, placing faith in Him for salvation, etc.), and that you had a miraculous deliverance from some of the chains that held you. 

Is that right, and if so, what has happened since?

James.

Quote from: V.I.D. on September 17, 2009, 02:04:41 AM
Does it realy matter if you are a christian ,or not?
Self righteousness ,or christianity ?
Its a truth that some are good in self-righteousness ,because they are good people .

I think the first question that should be asked is "What is a Christian?"
Just someone that believes Jesus saves?
I think that's part of the answer/defenition.
Surely believing is very important in the teachings of Jesus. But Jesus also thaught not to steal and to help the poor.
Now imagine Hitler believing in Jesus. And a very caring muslim that whole his life helps people every way he can. But obviously he doesn't believe in Jesus.
Now my question is who is a better Chritsian the muslim or Hitler?

Quote from: V.I.D. on September 17, 2009, 03:13:35 AM
So being righteous is doing what Jesus likes you to do ? So you become a puppet ?

Yep you become a puppet. But you like being a puppet :laughing7:

Look at it like this.
In school there are people to learn. They have to do what the teacher tells them to do.
So they all are puppets. Many hate that. Some like to learn. They really like to go to school every day to learn another new thing. Put still they have to be the puppet of the teacher. In movies those students are called nerds.
So you have to become a religious nerd VID  :laughing7:

Quote from: V.I.D. on September 17, 2009, 03:29:04 AM
Your first idea i realy didnt like . I just never saw people as objects of use,

Good point.
Jesus/God doesn't see you as a thing

Depends what's in that vessel I think. If makes a difference if you are a vessel filled with acid or with gold.

QuoteMarriage ? That is an interesting thought ,but i may also choose to be single . But i will think on what you said .

This is not about earthly marriage. But marriage stands for mutual love. Not a thing as you started you mesasge with.

My understanding is, when God gives the faith to believe/trust in Jesus as the Savior for their own life, situation, soul, then the Holy Spirit comes in and starts to work His works of righteousness through a person.  No one can either be "bad enough to go to hell", or "good enough to go to heaven".

"...that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved..."  Romans 10:9

Also, I believe that to see a person's good works, is evidence of salvation, not effort to get salvation.

I also believe some believe unto salvation now, the rest later, when faced with shame and pain of loss, then captured by His presence.  Because Jesus is Savior of the world.

God's blessing, James.

I've always said, in response to those asking me if I'm a Christian, that that is an exercise I will leave to the reader.  The Greek word christianos (Christian) appears in the Bible exactly three times in the entire text (Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28, and 1 Peter 4:16), and in none of the verses is it ever used to say "if you do/believe X, Y, and Z then you are a Christian, otherwise you're not".  There is not a terribly heavy weight placed on the term in the Bible, and for good reason - it really matters very little whether other humans think you a Christian; what matters is whether the love of God is in your heart, because it is then that one is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7)

Quote from: V.I.D. on September 17, 2009, 03:13:35 AMSo being righteous is doing what Jesus likes you to do ? So you become a puppet ?

I once heard an interpretation of the Ten Commandments that stuck with me ever since then - that person saw them not as instructions, but rather as a promise.  That is to say, that we were being told that if we loved God and loved our neighbor (the greatest commandments), then all of those things we will do - not because we're forced to, but because we want to, because we feel compelled to act in that way because we love everyone to such a great degree.

I don't know if this is an accurate interpretation of the actual text, but I do feel that it is nonetheless a true statement.  The love of God and the subsequent following of his commandments ought to be a joyous thing, something that you do freely and gladly because you cannot help but be uplifted through the smile and joy on others' faces whenever you have a chance to do so.  If it is something that you instead look at apprehensively and grudgingly, then it is a very good bet that either your heart has not yet been completely filled with God's love... or someone has fed you stuff that isn't actually from God. :wink:

25Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:

26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

--Acts 11

Thanks for the references, Gab.  We see here that the name was first applied to disciples of Paul.  In a sense, Paul had stepped into the shoes of Christ [as apostle], so that in learning from Paul, they were learning from Christ by proxy. 

But, we have the New Testament scripture, so we can learn directly from Christ.  Thus, when I call myself Christian, I identify myself as a disciple of Christ.


20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

--Rev 3

QuoteI may be confused, maybe not remembering correctly.  But I thought I remembered about a year and a half ago, that you prayed to Jesus with one of the TM members (not sure of details, asking forgiveness, to be saved, placing faith in Him for salvation, etc.), and that you had a miraculous deliverance from some of the chains that held you.

Is that right, and if so, what has happened since?

We prayed .What helped me is that i got further away from ET.
What i disliked in the end is God and the religion .
I remember that we prayed for *the demons to get out * . They thought i had demons in me O.O !
For crying out loud ,they should have just told me that Santa Claus is comming through the chimney to bring the Holly Spirit . Now that would have helped me more than everything else ...
I remember feeling great relief when i thought that i didnt have enything like that in me and i can even say that i felt *anointed * from this thought .
But who did believe me ?
I just needed some moral help ,an arm to hang on to , and some love!
I saw they loved me ,but in the end what i experienced made me not wanna be with God .
The *Holly Spirit * and God's preasence and everything else made me wanna say : that god even if he is with me ,even if he loves me ,its nothing ,as i cant see more people be happy and less tortured .
People are dying ,being tortured and what am i doing ? Licking the B88t of the same God that allowed it ? That made the end of my atraction toward your God .It also opened my eyes to many bad things that were written in this book : the Bible .
The bad feelings ? Now i have a better explenation for them than demons !
Its puberty ,hormones,stress (my broken family and many more ..) ,the conflict with gods like the one you have . That is what the *demons * are realy and nothing else . Once those problems are solved ,then i will not have them .

QuoteI once heard an interpretation of the Ten Commandments that stuck with me ever since then - that person saw them not as instructions, but rather as a promise.  That is to say, that we were being told that if we loved God and loved our neighbor (the greatest commandments), then all of those things we will do - not because we're forced to, but because we want to, because we feel compelled to act in that way because we love everyone to such a great degree.

That Gab is a nice thought . I do have some complains ,but its true and nice .

QuoteAlso, I believe that to see a person's good works, is evidence of salvation, not effort to get salvation.

I never liked the idea about salvation . I mean ..saved from WHAT ? There are so many things that might be wrong in life !So many ! From what ? From everything ?
And even if He does wanna save me if i dont like Him i will still not want His ways .So i dont want to be *saved * the way he may like me to be .

QuoteDepends what's in that vessel I think.

I dont think that people ever had acid in them . We all have hearts .The evil people like Stalin and Hitler also did have .
Did you know that Stalin circled 3 times arround Moscow during the nazzi atack of the town with an Icon Of ...I dont remember was it Jesus himself ,ot His mother 's icon . He did it because he thought that God may help him .

QuoteI also believe some believe unto salvation now, the rest later, when faced with shame and pain of loss, then captured by His presence.

Pain ,shame,loss ,dont help. I have felt every one of those to the amount that i could not sleep and was shivering every night .It doesnt help!I have also felt this what you call *Holly Ghost *.

Sorry for *mixing * the quotes a bit in the comment .I should have written the names above them ,but i am too lazy to write the names ,yet i can write that small comment bellow.  :grin: :grin:

Quote from: V.I.D. on September 17, 2009, 01:18:44 PM

QuoteDepends what's in that vessel I think.

I dont think that people ever had acid in them . We all have hearts .The evil people like Stalin and Hitler also did have .
Did you know that Stalin circled 3 times arround Moscow during the nazzi atack of the town with an Icon Of ...I dont remember was it Jesus himself ,ot His mother 's icon . He did it because he thought that God may help him.

And after that he used the scorched earth tatic...
VID I think you are reading my reply a little out of context.

QuoteYour first idea i realy didnt like . I just never saw people as objects of use,
Good point.
Jesus/God doesn't see you as a thing

because they have soul ,think ,hear ,love and much more .. We are not vessels .
Depends what's in that vessel I think. If makes a difference if you are a vessel filled with acid or with gold.


Quote
Marriage ? That is an interesting thought ,but i may also choose to be single . But i will think on what you said .

This is not about earthly marriage. But marriage stands for mutual love. Not a thing as you started you mesasge with.

Btw : Why cant those people who wrote the Bible say things in normal language ?
They say : marriage . You say marriage = mutual love . Omm  :umnick:

I want to believe that people have something precious in them . I am kind of orientated arround the eastern faiths when it comes to the Spirit .From there i got to the idea that people have a soul and its something GOLDEN .Its precious,they are precious .
By the way the wolf might be a wolf ,but that doesnt make him heartless . I want to believe that even the harshest beasts have hearts .
Stalin is just figuratively said .I dont agree with the bad stuff that he made ,but i dont blame him either .The fact that he did something good shows that he is not just a bag of ..well you know.

If i am still reading your reply out of context correct me .
I know that it matters what you will do . Burn ,or reward with good though.

Quote from: V.I.D. on September 17, 2009, 01:18:44 PM
People are dying ,being tortured and what am i doing ? Licking the B88t of the same God that allowed it ? That made the end of my atraction toward your God .It also opened my eyes to many bad things that were written in this book : the Bible .

I don't mean any offense by this, but I kind of get the sense that you're misunderstanding just what it means to love God.  I actually had the same thoughts at one point in time, so I definitely know where you're at.  But then I read passages such as this:

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'  Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'  The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'" (Matthew 25:34-40)

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us." (1 John 4:7-12)

The more I look into the matter, the more I become convinced that the statement that God is love holds much, much more significance than many give it credit for.  From the broader context in 1 John, I don't think that it's a metaphor, as if to only say that God loves us all so much.  I think that it's actually speaking quite literally: we cannot truly understand God in his entirety, but when we experience love, we are experiencing God, and it is love that must form the basis for our understanding of God.

In this respect, I think that the commandment to love God takes on an entirely different meaning.  If it is God that we experience when we experience love, then it may be said that loving God is, in a sense, loving love.

One thing I always found interesting was that, when Jesus is asked in Matthew 22:34-40 what the greatest commandment (singular) was in the law, he responds with not one, but two commandments - love God and love your neighbor.  I've grown increasingly suspicious the more I read that these two commandments are, in fact, the same thing - we are to love God not by just sitting there and reciting empty praises, but rather by the spreading the love of God to all people.

So, no, we aren't supposed to stand by idle loving God while others suffer.  In fact, if we do stand by idle and put empty words of praise for God above helping others, we are like the goats who did not do anything for God.  What we do for others, we do for God - that is to say, we love God precisely by loving our neighbor and acting in the way we are instructed to act.

"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:14-16)

Unlike the English "truth," which is a positive thing, in Greek, aletheia is a negative word.  It begins with a, which is "un-," then, the name "Lethe," from which we derive such words as "lethargy" and "lethal." 
_________________________________________________
Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia's article on:

LETHE

In Classical Greek, Lethe (λήθη; Classical Greek [ˈlεːt̪ʰεː], modern Greek: [ˈliθi]) literally means "forgetfulness" or "concealment". It is related to the Greek word for "truth": a-lethe-ia (αλήθεια), meaning "un-forgetfulness" or "un-concealment". In Greek mythology, Lethe is one of the several rivers of Hades: those who drank from it experienced complete forgetfulness. Lethe was also a naiad, although the naiad Lethe is probably a separate personification of forgetfulness rather than a reference to the river which bears her name. She was the daughter of Eris ('Strife' in Hesiod's Theogony), and sister to Algos, Limos, Horcus, and Ponos.

Role in religion and philosophy

Some ancient Greeks believed that souls were made to drink from the river before being reincarnated, so they would not remember their past lives. The Myth of Er at the end of Plato's Republic tells of the dead arriving at the "plain of Lethe", through which the river Ameles ("careless") runs. A few mystery religions taught the existence of another river, the Mnemosyne; those who drank from the Mnemosyne would remember everything and attain omniscience. Initiates were taught that they would receive a choice of rivers to drink from after death, and to drink from Mnemosyne instead of Lethe...
_______________________________________________
God abides with the lowly.  To know that out of all of whatever is, there is what is "unhidden" of it to us, is to recognize the limitations of our knowledge of what God has been pleased to reveal.  We are responsible for what has been made known to us.  That is how we may walk in the light.  We don't assume what we know is incontrovertible "truth" because we acknowledge the partial nature of what is not any longer concealed.  We are hungry to know more as we are led by the Spirit.  It is like the iceberg: only 10% revealed while the other 90% which is not seen makes up the bulk of the iceberg.  It is the part above the water, what is unconcealed, that is our "truth."  We each have our assigned paths, so our "need to know" is is unique.  We are not to judge, but to love one another.

God delights in "truth in the inward part."  He doesn't want us exercising some religious assertion not connected to what we recognize as what is uncovered of reality within us.  To often people engage in religious activities and support religious teachings, or go along with what others call religious authorities, when we lack true conviction in our hearts and our minds are unconvinced that it is the truth.  (This realm of darkness has strongholds.)

What God wants of us is share without condemnation what is the condition of our hearts and minds so we may have fellowship with one another  in the truth.  Often, among us, there is revelation that can be shared which will advance us in the knowledge of God.  There is corporate "truth" for the body of Christ, the local, and visible many membered expression of God in the earth.

Jesus, calling himself "The Truth," meaning, "the unconcealed," indicates that as we are partaking of the Divine nature, the omniscience of it means we are "un-forgetting" some of the all of the mind of Christ that we have.

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


This is a promise of God, that he will wake us from lethargy or sleep [death] into the light of  all truth where nothing shall be hid from us.  Reformer, thanks for pointing out that the word for truth means an unveiling of something concealed, a waking up from sleep.

The god of this evil age works night and day to blind us to the truth, to keep us asleep and the walking dead.  It takes, therefore, a love of the truth to overcome this.  In the Hebrew, the word for truth gives the meaning of stability due to a strong foundation, which as we know, is Christ.


Psalm 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.


"on thee do I wait"

H6960
קוה
qâvâh
kaw-vaw'
A primitive root; to bind together (perhaps by twisting), that is, collect; (figuratively) to expect: - gather (together), look, patiently, tarry, wait (for, on, upon).