Holy Spirit in everyone?

[hopingpriest]

What do you think?
Is He in everyone? I mean everyone?
Could it be that when Holy Spirit was given to diciples in pentecost, it was actually given to whole humankind, to everyone?
Could it be that everyone has Holy Spirit, but are not aware of that they do?

I feel in my heart that that might be true.

Church is there to help people to become aware of that god allready is with them?

[thinktank]

I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is within everyone, but believers sealed while mature wise christians filled with cup running over, but I do believe the book of acts that says in the last days the Holy spirit is poured out on all flesh which includes non belivers..

The book of acts, quotes Peter saying to the crowd, that we are in the last days.

[Syndicated]

Here's the ultimate question then...

Are WE in the last days?

OR was Peter telling the people he WAS TALKING TO (2000 years ago) in the last days?

[Ross]

Hi;
A few things have to happen first. One of the main things that is talked about in 2 Thess is the man of lawlessness who claims to be god and sets himself up in the sanctuary of God. [ Thess 2;4 ]

[hopingpriest]

I just started to think this when i just recently read a book by brother Roger of taize. I understood that this was one of his message in the book: Holy Spirit is in everyone.

And when i have read some other theologians who i really appreciate i have found the same idea. I have also found out that they are universalists. (And some sort of mystics).

But offcourse this is not really suitable idea with classic christian dogmas.

[jabcat]

Maybe there's a distinction between 'on' and 'in"? 

There will come a time when "For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea."  When every knee bows and every tongue confesses Jesus is Lord.  We are not yet there.  God is not yet All in All.  That appears to occur when all enemies are under His feet and Jesus hands things over to the Father.   Satan is still active, has not been bound or restored.  Jesus said "I stand at the door and knock...hear my voice, open the door, I will COME IN..."

As I understand, the church's responsibility is much, but includes proclaiming Jesus is the Savior of the world, and "whoever calls on the name of the Lord WILL BE saved".   The jailer asked, "sirs, what must I do to BE saved?"  They told him to believe upon Jesus.     Jesus said "marvel not when I say you must be born again" (spiritually reborn from above).  Many have a head knowledge.  The Holy Spirit convicts and calls individuals into a "heart experience", through faith God gives to believe on Jesus as Savior.  Not all now.  The ecclesia now, the rest later - each in his own order  (I Cor. 15:23).

[hopingpriest]

I agree that it is about a "heart experience".   :HeartThrob:

Even if Holy Spirit would be with everyone, i do not think it would mean church as unemployed.
There are still a lot of people who do not know Jesus in their heart.

It would only change that being reborn, being babtized with Holy Spirit, being filled with Holy Spirit would not be a act where God enters human heart.
But rather an act where everlasting fire bursts into great flames in human heart.

Have to pray and think about this. :)

I was just weird when i like a week ago thought this thing when i was writing a sermon where i had a bit this idea that "God is with all". I was wondering can i really preach this. Then i got that book of taize's brother roger and there was that idea present, Holy Spirit is in everyone.
Also now i found that another my favourite theologian has the same idea.

[jabcat]

I agree that it is about a "heart experience".   :HeartThrob:

Even if Holy Spirit would be with everyone, i do not think it would mean church as unemployed.
There are still a lot of people who do not know Jesus in their heart.

It would only change that being reborn, being babtized with Holy Spirit, being filled with Holy Spirit would not be a act where God enters human heart.
But rather an act where everlasting fire bursts into great flames in human heart.

Have to pray and think about this. :)

:thumbsup:

good related reading;  (brother eby is a good friend of Tentmaker and Gary)

J. Preston Eby writes;

God all in all-- this will be the grand conclusion of the great drama of the world's history and of Christ's redemption. There will come a day - the glory is such we can form no conception of it, the mystery is so deep we cannot realize it - when the Son shall deliver up the Kingdom that God gave Him and which He won with His own blood and established and perfected from the throne of His glory. "He shall deliver up the Kingdom unto the Father ... that God may be all in all."

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/all-in-all.htm#God


Have a great day!

[WhiteWings]

HP,

I don't have the answer. But I have a few questions/thoughts that may be an answer to some :-)

Flesh is sinful.
What if there would be no influence of the HS on earth. Would everybody turn into massmurderers?
In other words does HS retrain sins in the world?

[rosered]

wow, WW , good questions ,  and is it the Holy Spirit that   has Babylon restrained till it  fails , those  demonic , unclean and hateful birds penned up ?

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
  :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c: He dropped the same thing into my spirit one day. I was shocked, in part because I had such a dramatic life changing "born again" experience, and asked Him how this could be if He was already there?

He is the measure of faith given to all men to receive Him, and the light of ALL MEN that come into the world.

Receive does not mean, as in He's not there, it means to receive Him as THEIR Lord. He put Adam (mankind also) to sleep, but you cannot find where He woke him up........UNTIL.......awake and shake off the dust and CHRIST will give you light.

Light is wisdom, the wisdom from the Spirit. Light comes from fire, and the small ember of faith given into the heart of men, becomes "larger" as we are "awakened". This is why the first "act" of the HS is to let us know we are accepted in the Beloved. That awakening is OUR witness of HIS acceptance, because He FIRST loved us. Our awakening lets us perceive it. Until then we sit in darkness; darkness is ignorance, ie. not His wisdom.

This radically changed how I talk to people that have not been "awakened" obviously, and brought an awareness of Him being in them, to the forefront of my mind and dealings with others. Seeing Him in all men, also changed my understanding of, "He appears to those that LOOK for Him." And it explains why He said when I was in prison, you didn't visit Me. Don't imagine a whole lot of Christians go to prison.  :winkgrin:

Blessings....

[rosered]

   great Thoughts Card ! :thumbsup:     you helped me remember  some of  them things 
two places the Lord speaks in the NT  witness   Holy Spirit  and good things  being the  same in meaning  for  us /adam  who are awakened by His presence /Light

Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?   :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

This is why the first "act" of the HS is to let us know we are accepted in the Beloved.

I believe one of the "first acts" of the Holy Spirit is to reveal to us with conviction that we need Christ, not that we already have Him.  I personally wasn't comforted first by the Holy Spirit, I was (almost "traumatically") convicted that I was lost and in need of salvation.

[rosered]

This is why the first "act" of the HS is to let us know we are accepted in the Beloved.

I believe one of the "first acts" of the Holy Spirit is to reveal to us with conviction that we need Christ, not that we already have Him.  I personally wasn't comforted first by the Holy Spirit, I was (almost "traumatically") convicted that I was lost and in need of salvation.

I so agree with this  James Amen!!  exact experience !  same here Bro  :HeartThrob:
  awesome  :icon_flower:

[Molly]

I don't agree that the HS is in everyone yet.

But I do believe that [the unrevealed] Christ is in everyone, from Adam to the present.

That is the meaning of, Christ in you, the hope of glory.

[Cardinal]

This is why the first "act" of the HS is to let us know we are accepted in the Beloved.

I believe one of the "first acts" of the Holy Spirit is to reveal to us with conviction that we need Christ, not that we already have Him.  I personally wasn't comforted first by the Holy Spirit, I was (almost "traumatically") convicted that I was lost and in need of salvation.

:cloud9: Yes, oviously, but I was talking about once "awakened", not "pre-awakened". I know it's a touchy subject....but to me it was the HS defining the actual "mechanics" of what ACTUALLY happened to me, when I had the experience, not what everyone told me it was.

There's a world of difference between the phrases "born again" and "born from above". My  :2c:

[Cardinal]

I don't agree that the HS is in everyone yet.

But I do believe that [the unrevealed] Christ is in everyone, from Adam to the present.

That is the meaning of, Christ in you, the hope of glory.

:cloud9: From my point of view, that's what I'm saying too Molly, because I see Christ and the HS as one and the same.

[Molly]

I don't agree that the HS is in everyone yet.

But I do believe that [the unrevealed] Christ is in everyone, from Adam to the present.

That is the meaning of, Christ in you, the hope of glory.

:cloud9: From my point of view, that's what I'm saying too Molly, because I see Christ and the HS as one and the same.

I see it more as two potentials of the same thing.

You know how lightning rises from the ground to meet the bolt in the air?  The ground has to have the electrical charge as well as the air to get one lightning bolt.  I see Christ in us and the HS in the same way, where one rises to meet the other, and the flow is complete.

But not too many get hit by lightning in their lifetime.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: No, I really didn't know lighting rises from the ground to meet the one in the air......cool!

[Molly]

Now, the charges on the ground have been building as well, itching to
make their move. When the electric charge from the cloud (normally
negative ions) make it within 100 yards or so from the ground, all the
positive ions that have been growing for a long time, think it's 'Go
Time', and launch up from the ground toward the path illuminated by the
ionized air. When the connection is made, there is a violent release of
pent-up electricity (that can match or even exceed the temperature of
the Sun), and in a split second, multiple flashes and 'return strokes'
go back and forth up that established channel (sometimes you can see it
flicker), until the charges have been released enough for that ionized
air-path to once again fall below the threshold for electrification. One
other thing, when the air column along this path has been ionized,
there's a loud sonic boom caused by its quick collapse, which is often
loud: Thunder.

http://www.cbs3springfield.com/weather/interact/faqs/7253131.html

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: PS. With that principle in mind, once again deep calls unto deep....

[Molly]

:cloud9: PS. With that principle in mind, once again deep calls unto deep....

Exactly. :thumbsup:

[jabcat]

I don't agree that the HS is in everyone yet.

But I do believe that [the unrevealed] Christ is in everyone, from Adam to the present.

That is the meaning of, Christ in you, the hope of glory.

:cloud9: From my point of view, that's what I'm saying too Molly, because I see Christ and the HS as one and the same.

I do find the "light in every man" type verses compelling.  But assume it's true that Christ is already in every man (which currently I don't fully believe to be right now).  How do you see Rev. 3:20  being reconciled?  "Behold I stand at the door and knock.  If any man hears my voice and opens the door I will come in and sup with him and he with me."  Also, I've been gone today and I haven't read back through the whole thread, but I really do hope/believe you're both still saying (and believing) that a person still needs to be saved, spiritually reborn from above as Jesus said.  Because otherwise, I strongly believe we're doing others a dis-service, who might otherwise be more open and willing to accept that they need to believe on Jesus for their salvation - rather than the (what I believe to be grave error) "Inclusion" message.   If the former is the case, we probably don't have a huge separation here, maybe more of a "degrees of understanding" rather than "basic/foundational doctrine".   Blessings.

[Molly]

they need to believe on Jesus for their salvation

Yes, of course, I believe this.

We can't get from here to there without him.

[jabcat]

Good, amen!  We don't need to just "turn over a new leaf" or "decide in our mind/will to do better".  We need Him to visit us with a Divine Visitation and renew us from the inside out.  (vs. the Inclusion message, "having a form of godliness but denying the POWER! thereof").

Amen again.   :thumbsup: