Revelation 1:18
King James Version (KJV)
18 "I... ...have the keys of hell and of death."
And people say hell is locked from the inside? :dontknow: that would mean..sinners have the keys? :Chinscratch:
the Revelation 1:18
Ferrar Fenton Version
"...I am living in the eternities of the eternities - and possess the keys of Death and of the spirit-land."
I'm not even allowed the keys to the front door.
Is the keys to that hell -hades, gehenna, or tarturos?
Does the plural mean that there is a seperate key to hell and another key for death?
Does Christ unlock these doors and let the occupants out before casting them (death and hell) into the lake of fire? :dontknow:
hmmm, yah, where does ET figure these keys Jesus has, went? and what the heck is a key for???
I used the King James' translation "hell" for ET impact.. but really, isn't "hell", Greek "hades" the grave? Even Strong's has fallen under the Greek spell ("surely you won't.. die?") and lists "hades" (translated hell) as "the place or realm of the dead".. but like Sheol, isn't the realm of the dead, the grave? and the "lower parts of the earth" surely is not the center of the planet called 'hell'? :rolllol: but is again "the grave". Jesus has the keys to death and its place, the grave. :Chinscratch: They must each one have a key to them. I'm assuming they're locked right now.. until resurrection.. two resurrections.. hmm, plural..
(I'm thinking every place where it says hell, should read "the grave")
"tartarus" where the angels which "left their first place" are in chains awaiting judgment/results, kind of like the blood of Abel cried out to God, and the blood of the martyrs (Rev) - metaphor but true :smile: They left their perfection, and now cannot reverse their course back to God/Life/Perfection, what with being now imperfect (which actually becomes an abyss-rev ch9 because the potential as history shows is a bottomless pit just how far down things can go/escalate)
MissZ said, "And people say hell is locked from the inside? that would mean..sinners have the keys? ET'ers say this because they want people to be responsible for sending themselves to hell (letting God off the hook) and they want their freewill to be so that it appears that they Themselves chose God. (Choosing God is not considered a work and therefore something they can feel good about concerning themselves.)
I have often heard it said that God doesn't want anyone to ever be tortured in hell but those rascally sinners would rather be tortured for all eternity than to be with God and eternal bliss. (Damn them! Damn them all to hell!) :laughing7:
Quote from: ded2daworld on February 27, 2013, 05:03:03 PM
I have often heard it said that God doesn't want anyone to ever be tortured in hell but those rascally sinners would rather be tortured for all eternity than to be with God and eternal bliss. (Damn them! Damn them all to hell!) :laughing7:
I agree with your post, ded, but I have actually read in www forums where people said just that, that they would rather go to Hell forever than be with God. Serious bitterness, I think.
To me, it's understandable. If the God I've worshipped is really like the sadistic psychotic ET God then let him burn me because I couldn't stand to be around him. :Peace2:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on February 27, 2013, 05:15:23 PM
I agree with your post, ded, but I have actually read in www forums where people said just that, that they would rather go to Hell forever than be with God. Serious bitterness, I think.
Do you think it could be related to what Milton had Satan say: "It is better to rule in hell than serve in Heaven." I'm wondering if the issue isn't really about thinking yourself equal with God ie. He can send me to hell, but he CAN'T make me worship Him. It could be the terrible twos to the max?
Yea...what kind of glory would God receive out of forced worship. Everyone forced would hate him all the more.
That's what makes the ET argument of "Every knee shall bow" invalid since they say it's forced for non-believers.
There is a lot of mindset [stronghold] to overcome.
Quote from: ded2daworld on February 27, 2013, 05:03:03 PM
MissZ said, "And people say hell is locked from the inside? that would mean..sinners have the keys? ET'ers say this because they want people to be responsible for sending themselves to hell (letting God off the hook) and they want their freewill to be so that it appears that they Themselves chose God. (Choosing God is not considered a work and therefore something they can feel good about concerning themselves.)
I have often heard it said that God doesn't want anyone to ever be tortured in hell but those rascally sinners would rather be tortured for all eternity than to be with God and eternal bliss. (Damn them! Damn them all to hell!) :laughing7:
Haha yes, my above quote was not me actually thinking that hell is locked from the inside.. sarcasm :thumbsup:
I honestly can not think of one person I know that could not be swayed by Gods glory and love, I don't think human will is that strong. The reason that most people reject God is because 1. they can't see him, so logically they can not believe. 2. The things they do hear about him makes him seem like an evil, schizophrenic God, 3. They see all the evil and hypocrisy that religion has caused over the years.
In a way God revealing himself to a person is smashing their freewill, especially if their will is based on deception and ignorance.
I knew you were using sarcasm missZ :thumbsup: I just wanted to use that staement as a springboard for my statement. :Peace2:
Quote from: misszoolander on February 28, 2013, 10:14:40 PM
I honestly can not think of one person I know that could not be swayed by Gods glory and love, I don't think human will is that strong. The reason that most people reject God is because 1. they can't see him, so logically they can not believe. 2. The things they do hear about him makes him seem like an evil, schizophrenic God, 3. They see all the evil and hypocrisy that religion has caused over the years.
I think you are right MissZ. I also think that most folk think God will take everything away from them and make them live in a life of no fun and poverty. Maybe reason 4. might be, they are afraid God will take their toys away.
Like some guy said in a movie, the Ten Commandments in Ten Words or Less:
Don't
Don't
Don't
Don't
Don't
Don't
Don't
Don't
Don't
Don't
I was gonna respond to Laz but decided it deserved a new topic -" the freedom of don't"
A whole lot of people see Christianity as a list of "don'ts," although there are a few "do's" in the list, and they see it as limiting, loss of freedom, no fun, no pleasure. On the other hand, those who have tried the path of unlimited, untrammeled freedom too often end up dead or behind bars. Movies love to depict heroic action without consequences, but real life is not like that.
I remember two things Mike Warnke said, that it's not enough to not do the "don'ts," but you've got to do some of the "do's." He also said that people remark to him that it's OK for him to talk about being a Christian, 'cause he's had his good times [read, facetious]. He then went on to list his broken bones, broken nose, and various wounds, then concluded, "Funny, I don't remember none!"