The Grand Plan of Elohim
This is part I
The Grand Plan of Elohim involves this Divine Being creating a Family.
It is His will to create a family in His likeness and character.
This process began before time and anything physical.
(p.s. amendment July 4, 2015 - forum member Micah 7-9 gave me some references pointing out that there was never a time without time. Time always existed. Although I am not fully convinced I must say I do not know for sure one way or another. :dontknow:)
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Amen!
Before time???? God IS Spirit not a spirit? :2c:
exactly..it is His dream and inspiration to make a family...that's what it's been about all along.
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 04, 2015, 07:05:02 AM
Before time???? God IS Spirit not a spirit? :2c:
Hi Micah,
I have seen it both ways in lieteral translations, although I admit I like IS SPIRIT better.
CLV(i) 24 God is spirit, and those who are worshiping Him must be worshiping in spirit and truth."
About time. Time only came into existence in eonian times. Did not exist before the physical realm IMO.
I discuss this more in Part II. :dsunny:
To me time is like a bubble suspended in the vastness and immensity of God. Before He created it, the ages like bubbles within the whole bubble, wheels within wheels, there was no time. When the bubble pops(when death is done away and God becomes all in all) there will be no more rule power and authority and time will be no more, just a whole lotta love and joy :o)
What is the difference between God and his celestial beings (angles and demons? If they are no differences aren't the angles more like God than man?
I've also thought about time as we know it ending with the eons because I think it is related to mortality. I think we will perceive both time and space differently when we're immortalized.
The Greek "aggelos," literally "messenger," translated as "angel" in the King James Version, can apply to both celestial and human messengers. God is spirit and the father of spirits. (John 4:24; Hebrews 12:9) The celestial messengers are spirit beings like God, but we humans are living souls created by God from soil and the "breath of life." (Genesis 2:7) Demons are evil spirit beings with the power to obsess mankind.
I believe the only effective way to overcome an obsession such as an addiction is to realize a demon is behind it, and trust God to save you from it.
Quote from: Aerex on June 04, 2015, 08:26:55 PM
What is the difference between God and his celestial beings (angles and demons? If they are no differences aren't the angles more like God than man?
The substantial difference is that they are created, as are we.
In the resurrection we, wh are grafted into the True Vine will be higher than angels, but for now we are lower(imo).
Hebrews 2
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
As "the children Thou(God) has given me", we wil partake in the inheritance of the Son, seated in Christ in the heavenly realms above all principality and power(and indeed already are in the spirit).
Hebrews 1
13But to which of the angels has He ever said, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET "?
14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?
Quote from: eaglesway on June 04, 2015, 08:17:42 PM
To me time is like a bubble suspended in the vastness and immensity of God. Before He created it, the ages like bubbles within the whole bubble, wheels within wheels, there was no time. When the bubble pops(when death is done away and God becomes all in all) there will be no more rule power and authority and time will be no more, just a whole lotta love and joy :o)
That is a real cool way of looking at this question of time. Eventually it will "POP" at the consummation. Before this bubble was created by God, He had created the spiritual realm and the Heavenly Host, although we do not find much reference to this spiritual realm in the scriptures except for some glimpses thriough a glass darkly.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Having no greater joy than knowing Gods love :HeartThrob:
I believe all have tasted Gods goodness Joe
Will attempt to share something , the Lords presence by His Spirit has allowed me to rejoice in personally .
GOD IS SPIRIT and this crude attempt to explain it , I will say its an ENERGY OF THE PUREST LOVE that could ever enter into your moral fiber of being
Just the waves of the connection is impossible to put into words , every thing that has a source of this life force , is moving and having a existance because of Him , He speaks and the WORD becomes LIFE in an of itself
The vastness of His loving energy being called SPIRIT AND LIFE made everything that ever come into being , even breathing on the dust of the earth to make man mortal was His own design, everything contained in this breath of God is because of LOVE , the very action of it exists because of HIS ALL CONSUMING POWER and a force that cannot be contained by any one thing and time is not a factor
It is as continual as HE IS OR EVER WAS the tiny fragments of this energy carry LIGHT in them and are covered by the flesh or the dust of the earth
that being a solid and tangible thing that can be seen and felt , just as the Spirit can be seen and felt , when Jesus returned to the 12 and showed Him this glorified state , they saw in the physical and spiritual state that all things were possible with God increasing their faith , the very substance
of this powerful loving energy that they were blind to before
God revealed this to them as only He can
I do believe there is more to life than this physical state of being and we have only begun to live when we are free from the binding of the earth form found in all mankind though Adams ''condition'' and Eves curiosity by the subtle beast the carnal mind of the serpent that kept us all bound in death till the Life comes to free us of this mortality in Jesus Christ as the SON OF GOD as only LOVE CAN DO ..
There is no other way ... Love is an action Word brought about by a power and energy that must penetrate the very being of mans core to understand the depth and vastness and unbound WORD OF TRUTH , all around us and though us and for our own good and well being ,,God has done it all from the very beginning to the very end and its never had death as any part of it EVER
It is totally done away with in Christ But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
LOVE IS THE FULLING OF THE LAW , love does no wrong ever , when you have that Spirit and energy of Love greater things are bound to happen
and will receive the Highest of praise honor and glory that could ever be known to mankind though His own Spirit of LIFE loving existence we shall go from glory to glory from that point on ward and up ward we only have glimpses and sparks of this Light contained in flashes for this time and the FATHER GIVES THIS THOUGH HIS SON THE LIGHT OF LIFE IN mankind as His gift of Love , more will be added if you are found faithful in a few things :HeartThrob:
Yea Joeteekay,
Thats exactly what I believe.
The bubble is the veil. Death, time and the grave are all veils. There are bubbles within bubbles. A veil is torn, and a bubble pops when we get connected to the Vine(on one level). Another pop at the resurrection. Another pop at the consummation at the end of the ages when death and the grave are destroyed. When God is all in all, every veil has been torn, every bubble has popped :o)
Quote from: rosered on June 05, 2015, 09:05:27 PM
Having no greater joy than knowing Gods love :HeartThrob:
I believe all have tasted Gods goodness Joe
Will attempt to share something , the Lords presence by His Spirit has allowed me to rejoice in personally .
GOD IS SPIRIT and this crude attempt to explain it , I will say its an ENERGY OF THE PUREST LOVE that could ever enter into your moral fiber of being
Just the waves of the connection is impossible to put into words , every thing that has a source of this life force , is moving and having a existance because of Him , He speaks and the WORD becomes LIFE in an of itself
The vastness of His loving energy being called SPIRIT AND LIFE made everything that ever come into being , even breathing on the dust of the earth to make man mortal was His own design, everything contained in this breath of God is because of LOVE , the very action of it exists because of HIS ALL CONSUMING POWER and a force that cannot be contained by any one thing and time is not a factor
It is as continual as HE IS OR EVER WAS the tiny fragments of this energy carry LIGHT in them and are covered by the flesh or the dust of the earth
that being a solid and tangible thing that can be seen and felt , just as the Spirit can be seen and felt , when Jesus returned to the 12 and showed Him this glorified state , they saw in the physical and spiritual state that all things were possible with God increasing their faith , the very substance
of this powerful loving energy that they were blind to before
God revealed this to them as only He can
I do believe there is more to life than this physical state of being and we have only begun to live when we are free from the binding of the earth form found in all mankind though Adams "condition" and Eves curiosity by the subtle beast the carnal mind of the serpent that kept us all bound in death till the Life comes to free us of this mortality in Jesus Christ as the SON OF GOD as only LOVE CAN DO ..
There is no other way ... Love is an action Word brought about by a power and energy that must penetrate the very being of mans core to understand the depth and vastness and unbound WORD OF TRUTH , all around us and though us and for our own good and well being ,,God has done it all from the very beginning to the very end and its never had death as any part of it EVER
It is totally done away with in Christ But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
LOVE IS THE FULLING OF THE LAW , love does no wrong ever , when you have that Spirit and energy of Love greater things are bound to happen
and will receive the Highest of praise honor and glory that could ever be known to mankind though His own Spirit of LIFE loving existence we shall go from glory to glory from that point on ward and up ward we only have glimpses and sparks of this Light contained in flashes for this time and the FATHER GIVES THIS THOUGH HIS SON THE LIGHT OF LIFE IN mankind as His gift of Love , more will be added if you are found faithful in a few things :HeartThrob:
Thank you for your efforts in attempting to explain the inexplicable Rosered, a daunting task, but I believe some ordinary sentient people in the world today are able to see the truth and conviction in what you are saying, and how the Love of Christ or the Love of God is a very tangible Reality.
Blessings brother ... and we thank Him as the Voice of many waters moves upon the earth :cloud9:
God sure does make it all worth your while :HeartThrob:
Quote from: joeteekay on June 04, 2015, 05:47:39 AM
The Grand Plan of Elohim
This is part I
The Grand Plan of Elohim involves this Divine Being creating a Family.
It is His will to create a family in His likeness and character.
This process began before time and anything physical.
(p.s. amendment July 4, 2015 - forum member Micah 7-9 gave me some references pointing out that there was never a time without time. Time always existed. Although I am not fully convinced I must say I do not know for sure one way or another. :dontknow:)
Grand Plan of God
Part II
In the beginning:
When we find the word beginning in scripture it is referring to something starting and a starting point can only be defined as being connected to time. It is like the start of a process or a race. It has a beginning and runs its course. A race starts and it ends at the finish line. All events are marked by time. And so are the eons or ages.
The word beginning is found in Gen 1:1 and in John 1:1. Is this a reference to the same beginning, or two different beginnings? Perhaps it is referring to the same beginning point, although that is certainly debatable.
In Gen. 1:1 we read :
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (KJV)
However in the Hebrew scripture it rendered:In the beginning
created God the heaven and the earth.
The omniscient God is the Creator God. That is His primary attribute and should be so recognized and so worshiped.(J. Preston Eby - God, All in All) In the eternal realm before the ages were formed, and ages before man first saw the light of earth's day, the almighty Lord set in motion His omniscient and immutable purpose for the ages which were to follow.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
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TIME: the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues
Jehovah...self Existent...to Exist ....be or become, come to pass... I AM. So since as is you say "God created time," HE[God] did nothing and HE did not exist before He[God] created time?
EXIST: to have real being whether material or spiritual.
In my opinion the Lord God IS TIME.
If there was/is no time- nothing happening- so if God created time as you say then God did not exist before God created time? :2c:
Col 1:17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 26, 2015, 12:36:21 PM
TIME: the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues
Jehovah...self Existent...to Exist ....be or become, come to pass... I AM. So since as is you say "God created time," HE[God] did nothing and HE did not exist before He[God] created time?
EXIST: to have real being whether material or spiritual.
In my opinion the Lord God IS TIME.
If there was/is no time- nothing happening- so if God created time as you say then God did not exist before God created time? :2c:
Col 1:17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."
Thanks for you comment Micah.
Although I am not keen on using the word eternity, since it not a biblical term, the concept of eternity does provide an understanding of the meaning of time.
Here is where I got some information about the meaning of time:
In his essay "Just What Do You Mean Eternity", J. Preston Eby provides insight into these two words. Here are some excerpts from the section entitled "TIME VS. ETERNITY":Here is stability - immutability - the quality of His nature remains the same, He is the eternal!
The eternal existence of God is certain for He is the source of all life. Death cannot touch Him for He is not dependent upon the sustaining power of another, He is Jehovah, the self-existent one.
Time was created; it had a beginning, it shall have an end. It is only one thing among countless other things that are part of the entire created universe.
Before the creation of the universe, there was no time; at the end of the ages when the present material universe is dissolved and replaced by a new, spiritual universe, time shall cease to be.
A proper understanding of time as a created phenomena having beginning and ending is an absolute prerequisite to a proper understanding of eternity. Time is relative only to the physical universe and the purposes of God therein.
We can also understand that both time and space (as we presently know them) will end together at the conclusion of the ages.
I am compelled to state that the Bible says very little by way of a definition of eternity because the Bible is essentially a book of time and for time. It was written for man who lives in a temporal state and who is not yet a totally eternal being.
Eternity is a state of absolute timelessness, not of unending time. Eternity is a state of being, resident in the very nature and person of God in which such concepts as past, present, future, before, after, change, transition, growth, decay, etc. do not exist. It is wrong to assert that, when time ends, eternity will begin, because eternity has no beginning. Neither did it end when time began, as so many charts indicate.
Time is not part of eternity; eternity is not composed of segments of time. Eternity is not time standing still; it is simply not time at all. Eternity doesn't go on and on and on, ad infinitum. Eternity doesn't go anywhere, nor does it do anything. Eternity simply is. Eternity is part of the very nature and person of God. Eternity transcends beyond our knowing anything having to do with time. It is not time at all
FROM TIME TO ETERNITY
This phenomena called time was created by God for man. Why? Time is the womb from which God is birthing a people like unto Himself. We get the germ, the beginning and foretaste of eternity in time, but this is only the seed of eternal life. This womb of time is provided to aid man in his development, to assist him in preparation for a new, totally spiritual existence beyond time, beyond the last age, when the umbilical cord is cut, in a state of existence called eternity.
The complete article can be found at:http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/eternity.htm
:dsunny:
Quote from: joeteekay on June 26, 2015, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 26, 2015, 12:36:21 PM
TIME: the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues
Jehovah...self Existent...to Exist ....be or become, come to pass... I AM. So since as is you say "God created time," HE[God] did nothing and HE did not exist before He[God] created time?
EXIST: to have real being whether material or spiritual.
In my opinion the Lord God IS TIME.
If there was/is no time- nothing happening- so if God created time as you say then God did not exist before God created time? :2c:
Col 1:17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."
Thanks for you comment Micah.
Although I am not keen on using the word eternity, since it not a biblical term, the concept of eternity does provide an understanding of the meaning of time.
Here is where I got some information about the meaning of time:
In his essay "Just What Do You Mean Eternity", J. Preston Eby provides insight into these two words. Here are some excerpts from the section entitled "TIME VS. ETERNITY":
Here is stability - immutability - the quality of His nature remains the same, He is the eternal!
The eternal existence of God is certain for He is the source of all life. Death cannot touch Him for He is not dependent upon the sustaining power of another, He is Jehovah, the self-existent one.
Time was created; it had a beginning, it shall have an end. It is only one thing among countless other things that are part of the entire created universe.
Before the creation of the universe, there was no time; at the end of the ages when the present material universe is dissolved and replaced by a new, spiritual universe, time shall cease to be.
A proper understanding of time as a created phenomena having beginning and ending is an absolute prerequisite to a proper understanding of eternity. Time is relative only to the physical universe and the purposes of God therein.
We can also understand that both time and space (as we presently know them) will end together at the conclusion of the ages.
I am compelled to state that the Bible says very little by way of a definition of eternity because the Bible is essentially a book of time and for time. It was written for man who lives in a temporal state and who is not yet a totally eternal being.
Eternity is a state of absolute timelessness, not of unending time. Eternity is a state of being, resident in the very nature and person of God in which such concepts as past, present, future, before, after, change, transition, growth, decay, etc. do not exist. It is wrong to assert that, when time ends, eternity will begin, because eternity has no beginning. Neither did it end when time began, as so many charts indicate.
Time is not part of eternity; eternity is not composed of segments of time. Eternity is not time standing still; it is simply not time at all. Eternity doesn't go on and on and on, ad infinitum. Eternity doesn't go anywhere, nor does it do anything. Eternity simply is. Eternity is part of the very nature and person of God. Eternity transcends beyond our knowing anything having to do with time. It is not time at all
FROM TIME TO ETERNITY
This phenomena called time was created by God for man. Why? Time is the womb from which God is birthing a people like unto Himself. We get the germ, the beginning and foretaste of eternity in time, but this is only the seed of eternal life. This womb of time is provided to aid man in his development, to assist him in preparation for a new, totally spiritual existence beyond time, beyond the last age, when the umbilical cord is cut, in a state of existence called eternity.
The complete article can be found at:
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/eternity.htm
:dsunny:
Thanks have had the article in print for quite sometime, I just don't accept it any longer.
You are right the Bible says very little about eternity. Isa 57:15 I like the CLV :2c: :dsunny:
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning [time] God [spirit] created [energy] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter].
There's the whole thing in a proverbial nutshell.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 26, 2015, 08:45:53 PM
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning [time] God [spirit] created [energy] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter].
There's the whole thing in a proverbial nutshell.
So BEFORE the beginning[time] God[spirit] was doing nothing, God was just in a state of limbo and nothing was going on? I do not accept that proverbial nutshell. :2c:
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 27, 2015, 02:41:52 AM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 26, 2015, 08:45:53 PM
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning [time] God [spirit] created [energy] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter].
There's the whole thing in a proverbial nutshell.
So BEFORE the beginning[time] God[spirit] was doing nothing, God was just in a state of limbo and nothing was going on? I do not accept that proverbial nutshell. :2c:
OK, but then God's Word does not tell us anything about "before the beginning." I doubt if we are spiritually and/or mentally equipped to understand some things, and I suppose that is one of them. :2c: :2c:
The phrase "in the beginning" is pretty vague imo. It doesn't have to mean anything other than our own universe.
I know my own opinion may not matter to some , and we all have many opinions about many things , they are ''judgments ''
I do believe the Existence of God was always .
The pure harmony and flow was always , set in motion by the Source of all power BEING GOD in WISDOM
I believe many were sent in this lower form existence ..
A darkness from HIS BRILLIANCE &LOVE
I do believe also many when arriving back ''home '' will remember.
That being the pre existing and pre destined ones God has ordained and purposed in His Wisdom .
I believe the new life given from those sent , will be gathered in to Christ .
Which is life sustaining of Itself
Christ is GODS SON to be gathering the all , being the good and evil of all the knowledge of this realm as the living and dead , the holy and unholy
as the Fire of Gods cleansing purpose of LIGHT &LIFE
and His purpose is to bring back everything , being made perfect and complete in HIM AND PRESENT IT TO GOD
Being a new creation that has absolutely perfect and complete GLORY OF GOD BEING THE SUPREME SOURCE THAT ALL CAN KNOW IN THE END
What is was like to live without GOD and life without him was nothing , but the good was always Him and live by faith , not knowing , but the hope placed inside you, by Him, will prove TRUTH , that LOVE was always perfect and complete and needed nothing from us but we always needed HIM to LIVE and LOVE and be whole .
Glory to God in the Highest !!!
high renown or honor won by notable achievements:
synonyms: renown · fame · prestige · honor · distinction
I do appreciate GOD as the Creator - yet I adore and worship GOD because He is LOVE rather than because He is the Creator.
I am of the opinion that GOD is LOVE and therefore His primary attribute is also LOVE which emanates from LOVE - as only LOVE can do.
It is because GOD is LOVE and His primary attribute is LOVE, that He creates life - it is a consequence of LOVE, which must give of Itself.
GOD is the Creator because GOD is LOVE.
GOD is the Creator because of His LOVE which comes from Himself who is LOVE.
We, those of us who are attempting to understand Love and our Savior, are on what I see as a thresh hold of proving what we believe. Our Lord and Savior IS LOVE and there are happenings in our now, which leave me questioning my vulnerably. I pray and hope for wisdom, the world I live in is changing in degrees I never thought, and I believe that the only strap of rescue, for me, is to discern my own depths in where I rest. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 28, 2015, 03:50:58 AM
We, those of us who are attempting to understand Love and our Savior, are on what I see as a thresh hold of proving what we believe. Our Lord and Savior IS LOVE and there are happenings in our now, which leave me questioning my vulnerably. I pray and hope for wisdom, the world I live in is changing in degrees I never thought, and I believe that the only strap of rescue, for me, is to discern my own depths in where I rest. :HeartThrob:
:iagree:
PART 3
A little understood aspect of how God works with His physical creation are the scriptures dealing with the eons. With out a doubt, it is vitally important to understand the wonderful truth of the saving work of Jesus. That is of primary importance. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world.
But, even of the saints, few have any clear idea of the object of all creation and revelation. It seems difficult for us to associate Christ with anything more than His sacrifice and redemption. He died for the sins of the world. The great truth that He is the Firstborn of creation seems to have vanished from the consciousness of Christendom ( from Knoch).
And so there is so much more precious truth about God's plan when we go to the original text of scripture and not rely on the tainted versions of our popular modern Bibles. The words eon, eons and eonian are not found in the majority of the bibles, including the popular King James version,even though\ they are the correct translations from the Original Greek text. They are legitimate English words. Diligent students of scripture recognize that the words "eternity", "everlasting, "for ever and ever" are not in the Original text. Those words are a perversion of the original sacred writings. That is a travesty. Consequently a great deal of Gods grand, majestic and perfect plan of salvation and mans ultimate destiny has been totally misunderstood by Christians. Some of what is written here is taken from works of A. E. Knoch and L. A. Bynoe.
So it is vital to know about eonian times in God's plan for humanity. What are "eonian times"? What was God doing before the period known as eonian times. This was partially discussed in Parts 1 and 2. God has always existed. He is the one who created the angelic host and the physical universe.He created the eons.
The purpose of the eons is for the wonderful plan of God to bring all humanity into His being defined ultimately as all in all through Jesus the Christ.
(//)
In this part look at those few scriptures that mention "before eonian times" and "before the eons". Very little is mentioned in scripture about pre-eonian times. That is because God"s dealing with mankind is focused on eonian times, the period which includes the five eons. Later we examine the different parts which constitute "eonian times" and detail each of the five divisions which constitute eonian times.
Pre eonian times
There are only 4 scriptures which mention before the the eons or before eonian times.We have very scant information concerning the works of the Creator God prior to eonian times
First verse of four
(KJV) 1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world (the eons) unto our glory:
(CLV) I Cor 2:7 but we are speaking God's wisdom in a secret, wisdom which has been concealed, which God designates before - before the eons, for our glory,
Gods plan of salvation was ordained by Him before the eons and has been concealed from the world, but revealed by Him to the saints.
Second verse of four
(KJV) Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever (before the entire eon, now, as well as for all the eons).. Amen.
(CLV) Jud 1:25 to the only God, our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might and authority before the entire eon, now, as well as for all the eons. Amen!"
This verse in Jude is yet another example of the error of the revisionists in ignoring the original text. They had their preconceived ideas and reliance on the Latin Vulgate. Preconceived ideas about hell and eternal punishment.
Third verse of four
(KJV) 2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began (times eonian)
(CLV) 2 Tim 1:9 Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, not in accord with our acts, but in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian,
Gods eonian purpose for the lives of His called out ones was determined through grace and given to us in Christ before times eonian. Before the world began, as per most corrupt translations makes no sense. Eph_1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Fourth verse of four
(KJV) Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began (times eonian)
(CLV) Titus 1:2 In expectation of life eonian, which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian,
Similar comment as that above. God, in His Holy Word, never uses the term eternal life or eternal anything. When one sees what the eons are, then life eonian is scripturally correct. It is not incorrect to say to say that the Elect will inherit eternal life but it is not scripturally accurate , since eternal is not true to the inspired scriptures. Those who have eonian life will become spirit beings and become immortal.
Later we will look at eonian times in detail.
Gen. 1:1 In the BEGINNING (H7225 the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically a firstfruit): - beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time), principal thing.)
Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
1Co 15:20 (Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing."
Col 1:16 for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him,
Col 1:17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."
Jesus Christ is the "in the beginning" He is the Firstfruit He is the Principal thing He is Wisdom.
Pro 8:23 From the eon was I inaugurated, From the beginning, preceeding the earth;"
Jesus Christ is the "in the beginning" He is the Firstfruit He is the Principal thing He is Wisdom. :Peace2:
Quote from: eaglesway on June 05, 2015, 10:30:50 PM
Yea Joeteekay,
Thats exactly what I believe.
The bubble is the veil. Death, time and the grave are all veils. There are bubbles within bubbles. A veil is torn, and a bubble pops when we get connected to the Vine(on one level). Another pop at the resurrection. Another pop at the consummation at the end of the ages when death and the grave are destroyed. When God is all in all, every veil has been torn, every bubble has popped :o)
So by this analogy the bubble/veil of time will "pop" and time will be no more? That's what bro. Eby believes that time will end, I did as well for a while, but it is in "time" that things happen and should the bubble/veil "pop" and time is no more then everything just stops-freezes, nothing happens. I don't accept that sorry.
Psa 102:27 Yet You remain the same, And Your years shall not come to end." :dsunny:
In the theory(its just a theory) nothing stops, or freezes. it is just that the finite supply of everything.....;life, energy, time becomes infinite, to know how much has passed or how much is left is no longer relative. There is no need to measure the infinite, and the state of being so transcends the current one that we cannot conceive it- hence "we know not what we shall be but we shall belike Him, for we shall see Hm as He is". Death, the terminal point of life will be no more.
But like all things beyond the veil(olam), it is seen through a glass darkly, and it is just what I believe about it. I dont teach it as doctrine.
One of the points Peter made about time was when he said 1000 years are a but a day to the Lord.
I.M.O time will continue, just not 24/7 which we currently run on.
If time did not continue everything would stand still. Whether it is milliseconds, hours, year who knows?
One of the best examples of this concept was the "Men in Black" movie. At the end of the movie there were heaps of planets and peoples depicted as all running to different time schedules. A year for some was an hour to others. All relative really.
We are, after all, in the first stage of the master plan for the ages to come.
Quote from: lastpost on June 28, 2015, 02:13:33 AM
I do appreciate GOD as the Creator - yet I adore and worship GOD because He is LOVE rather than because He is the Creator.
I am of the opinion that GOD is LOVE and therefore His primary attribute is also LOVE which emanates from LOVE - as only LOVE can do.
It is because GOD is LOVE and His primary attribute is LOVE, that He creates life - it is a consequence of LOVE, which must give of Itself.
GOD is the Creator because GOD is LOVE.
GOD is the Creator because of His LOVE which comes from Himself who is LOVE.
Awesome!! :smile: I love that! Especially "It is because GOD is LOVE and His primary attribute is LOVE, that He creates life - it is a consequence of LOVE, which must give of Itself."
I never really thought of that.. but I can see it surely is true! :cloud9: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 04, 2015, 06:52:49 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on June 05, 2015, 10:30:50 PM
Yea Joeteekay,
Thats exactly what I believe.
The bubble is the veil. Death, time and the grave are all veils. There are bubbles within bubbles. A veil is torn, and a bubble pops when we get connected to the Vine(on one level). Another pop at the resurrection. Another pop at the consummation at the end of the ages when death and the grave are destroyed. When God is all in all, every veil has been torn, every bubble has popped :o)
So by this analogy the bubble/veil of time will "pop" and time will be no more? That's what bro. Eby believes that time will end, I did as well for a while, but it is in "time" that things happen and should the bubble/veil "pop" and time is no more then everything just stops-freezes, nothing happens. I don't accept that sorry.
Psa 102:27 Yet You remain the same, And Your years shall not come to end." :dsunny:
I'm unsure of that also.. and I am unsure of the idea - even though we will have a spiritual body, and bear the image of the heavenly - that we will be only spirit creatures/beings. I'm not comfortable, or that is, it doesn't feel right to me in some way.. I think of the 'end' result (and blueprint) as something more than pure spirit.. Or no space and time.. I think Yahweh is creating something awesome.. I believe the heavens and the earth will go beyond this 'time' / these eons/ages. John saw "a new heavens and a new earth".. Of finer substance, imo, but still having substance. Why not? Maybe the idea folks talk about isn't mere floating around forever in nothingness, but that's how it seems and I can't see as much greatness in that.. :dontknow: also, "the lion will eat straw like the ox" cannot, I believe, occur until after all things have been subdued and the last enemy defeated (i.e., not during the 1000 year millennium of Jesus, after His return, which means not until after God has made all things new - and I can't think of it as mere metaphor.)
:Peace2: :smile:
Quote from: Ross on November 05, 2015, 04:16:45 AM
We are, after all, in the first stage of the master plan for the ages to come.
:thumbsup: :banana:
Quote from: eaglesway on November 05, 2015, 03:30:48 AM
But like all things beyond the veil(olam), it is seen through a glass darkly, and it is just what I believe about it. I dont teach it as doctrine.
..that's a great attitude, eaglesway.. There's quite a few smileys/emoticons i've never used here, like :swordfight: or :hammerhead: or even :soap: It's very refreshing! Bless-ed are the peacemakers! :gsmile:
In my Father's house there are many mansions. I go to prepare a place for you.
That is pretty specific to me of something going on up there for us.
Quote from: Ross on November 05, 2015, 10:26:47 AM
In my Father's house there are many mansions. I go to prepare a place for you.
That is pretty specific to me of something going on up there for us.
:smile: I think of this "I go to prepare a place for you" as "I go to be crucified, that where I am you may be also.."
In our Father's house is many mansions.. another version says, many abiding places.. I have to look up the words in STrong's or interlinear but my grand daughter is counting the seconds til I log off, as we've got some scrambling and need to turn off and reboot every thing..
:gsmile:
Marie,
I really appreciate you occasionaly focusing our attention to the OT holy days of God. I believe we cannot fully comprehend the miraculous plan of salvation to bring all human kind to glory unless the shadow of those holy days are understood.
Eventually I will write about this in some detail when discussing the third eon of eonian times in this thread.
Joe
:angelharp: :angelharp:
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 04, 2015, 06:52:49 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on June 05, 2015, 10:30:50 PM
Yea Joeteekay,
Thats exactly what I believe.
The bubble is the veil. Death, time and the grave are all veils. There are bubbles within bubbles. A veil is torn, and a bubble pops when we get connected to the Vine(on one level). Another pop at the resurrection. Another pop at the consummation at the end of the ages when death and the grave are destroyed. When God is all in all, every veil has been torn, every bubble has popped :o)
So by this analogy the bubble/veil of time will "pop" and time will be no more? That's what bro. Eby believes that time will end, I did as well for a while, but it is in "time" that things happen and should the bubble/veil "pop" and time is no more then everything just stops-freezes, nothing happens. I don't accept that sorry.
Psa 102:27 Yet You remain the same, And Your years shall not come to end." :dsunny:
The debate/discussion continues as to whether time existed before and will exist after "eonian times" (the 5 eons) have run their course. This debate will prove inconclusive because it was
never God's intention to tell us much of what was going on in the spirit realm outside of the period of the eons. The matter of endlessness is not at all a subject of scripture, but eonian times is the sole theme of the inspired Word (some material here is taken from L. Bynoe "The Eonian Times").
The "Eonian Times" are but one great part of God's plan in His dealing with the Physical Universe He created. The "Eons" are the times of evil. At the beginning of the "Eons" sin and death are introduced, and will continue its course until the end of the "Eons," or Consummation. Before the "Eons" we read of no evil manifested; there is no open record of such; and after the "Eons" we find no record of sin and evil, or death, "For the former things shall have been passed away." So the
primary focus of the Scriptures are confined to the "Eonian Times." Another important reason of the eonian times is that God's creatures may come to know Him now.
The Eons were not eternal in the past .They had a beginning. The Eons will not be eternal in the future; they will have a conclusion. God hath spoken to humans, finite beings in periods of time.
Only the infinite Mind can conceive of endlessness or eternity. God has not given us such minds. He has not made eternity a subject of revelation. Eternity is not known in the original Greek Scriptures or Hebrew text. Let us not add to His Word. Go back to God's original.
God's grand and glorious purpose will never be fully understood until we learn that this Greek word "aion" transliterated "eon" by the (Concordant Version), is a
time word.
The Eonian Times are the period of sin and estrangement, but it is also the period God sets apart to bring His rebellious creatures terrestrial and celestial back to Himself. They embrace the entire period of His operation.
Eonian Times are the period of education in the knowledge of good and evil;
All the various aspects of time mentioned in the Scripture, days, months, years, times, seasons, etc., are all parts of Eonian Times and conform to His purpose of the Eons.
The matter of endlessness is not at all a subject of scripture, but
eonian times is the sole theme of the inspired Word.Theology so-called, has made the distinction of Time and Eternity, a term never used in the sacred scriptures in the original.
Men of note like J. Preston Eby and L. Ray Smith have made noble attempts to explain time and eternity. Mr. Eby does not consider time to exist outside of the eonian period whereas Mr. Smith makes a case for time existing in eternity. Both have flawed arguments IMO, because, as was stated above – they make assumptions beyond what is revealed in scripture. This is especially true of Mr. Smith who uses human reasoning to make his case. He makes derogatory statements concerning the writing of Mr. Eby, to the point of calling his description of time and eternity heresy and other unkind words (e.g. Now here is where I get angry at this junk says Mr. Smith). Some forum comments on Mr. Smiths approach:
http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/l-ray-smith/35/?wap2
From Eby:
Suffice it to say here that there have been "aions" in the past, there is this present "aion," and there are "aions" to come. And these all combined
make up TIME, encompassing the whole of the progressive plan and program of God for the development of His creation.
More from Mr. Eby:
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/eternity.htm
Proof of Science concerning the physical universe which God createdDiscoveries by Eienstien and Minkowski have shown that there is a space time continium. In other words, the created physical universe is made up of the 3 Euclidean dimensions plus time. Thats what constitutes the eonian times period. So in spiritual terms, time is not a condition outside of the eonian times. Time is irrelevant to God's being.
Web sites concerning this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime
In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single interwoven continuum. The spacetime of our universe is usually interpreted from a Euclidean space perspective, which regards space as consisting of three dimensions, and time as consisting of one dimension, the "fourth imension". By combining space and time into a single manifold called Minkowski space, physicists have significantly simplified a large number of physical theories, as well as described in a more uniform way the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_space
In mathematical physics, Minkowski space or Minkowski spacetime is a combination of Euclidean space and time into a four-dimensional manifold where the spacetime interval between any two events is independent of the inertial frame of reference in which they are recorded. Although initially developed by mathematician Hermann Minkowski for Maxwell's equations of electromagnetism, the mathematical structure of Minkowski spacetime was shown to be an immediate consequence of the postulates of special relativity.[1]
Minkowski space is closely associated with Einstein's theory of special relativity,
https://einstein.stanford.edu/content/relativity/q411.html
What is a space time continuum?
In 1906, soon after Albert Einstein announced his special theory of relativity, his former college teacher in mathematics, Hermann Minkowski, developed a new scheme for thinking about space and time that emphasized its geometric qualities. In his famous quotation delivered at a public lecture on relativity, he announced that,
"The views of space and time which I wish to lay before you have sprung from the soil of experimental physics, and therein lies their strength. They are radical. henceforth, space by itself, and time by itself, are doomed to fade away into mere shadows, and only a kind of union of the two will preserve an independent reality."
his new reality was that space and time, as physical constructs, have to be combined into a new mathematical/physical entity called 'space-time', because the equations of relativity show that both the space and time coordinates of any event must get mixed together by the mathematics, in order to accurately describe what we see. Because space consists of 3 dimensions, and time is 1-dimensional, space-time must, therefore, be a 4-dimensional object. It is believed to be a 'continuum' because so far as we know, there are no missing points in space or instants in time, and both can be subdivided without any apparent limit in size or duration. So, physicists now routinely consider our world to be embedded in this 4-dimensional Space-Time continuum, and all events, places, moments in history, actions and so on are described in terms of their location in Space-Time.
From www.icr.org -
Institute for Creation Research:There is an immeasurably and unimaginably huge universe out there (even though the most important part of it appears to be here). The physical universe is "temporal"—its physical characteristics are defined qualitatively and quantitatively in and by time, space, and mass/energy (usually abbreviated as just "matter").
Any effort to determine the cause of the universe is purely hypothetical. No human was there to observe the processes, so any attempt to understand events of pre-history (especially original events) must, therefore, be based on "
belief systems," or presuppositions. While the theories and ideas may be many, the presuppositions can only be of two sorts: 1) there is an infinite series of causes, going back into infinite time, with no ultimate Cause; or 2)
there exists an uncaused First Cause that was "outside" or transcendent to the universe.
Many scientists today conduct their research based on their presupposition or belief that nothing exists beyond the natural world—that which can be seen around us—and thus they do not accept that any ultimate Cause exists.
Scientists at ICR hold to the presupposition that the "
uncaused First Cause" is the Creator who exists outside of the physical creation He made. Time is not eternal, but created. To ask what happened in time before time was created is to create a false paradox without meaning. There was no "before" prior to the creation of the triune universe of time, space, and mass/energy.
Yet even more amazing (and the universe is amazing) is the historic fact that the Creator-God, after purposefully creating the time-space-matter universe, chose to enter it in the God-human person of Jesus Christ—for the sole purpose of providing a means by which humanity could have a personal relationship with the Creator.
Christ Jesus, He is before eonian times and He remaineth the same in the glory of the Father, after the eons have run their course. He is the A and Z. The First and the Last, i.e. He is the first and last of God's direct creation. Col. 1:15-16.
In Conclusion:Time is an attribute of "Eonian Times", the 5 eons.
When God created the physical universe, He created time.
At the consummation the eons conclude and so does time.
Even tho He is everywhere present thru His Spirit, He is not dependent on time or the physical creation.
As Lastpost has said. God is LOVE. This is Gods being and primary attribute.
To Him time is another part of His physical creation as are the black holes, the spiral galaxies, the atom and sub-atomic particles, etc. - and things yet for mankind to discover..
The Great, Magnificent Creator God.
As EW has said quoting Paul "we see through a glass darkly".
Quote from: joeteekay on November 06, 2015, 03:52:46 PM
Marie,
I really appreciate you occasionaly focusing our attention to the OT holy days of God. I believe we cannot fully comprehend the miraculous plan of salvation to bring all human kind to glory unless the shadow of those holy days are understood.
Eventually I will write about this in some detail when discussing the third eon of eonian times in this thread.
Joe
:angelharp: :angelharp:
I love the title of this thread! His perfect plan! ..and perfect intent.. and I'm looking forward to part 3! :smile:
.......
I had a thought about time.. and how there will be "a new heavens and a new earth, wherein righteousness/rightness is to dwell"
:banana: :banana:
.."the lion will eat straw like the ox and the bear will graze with the cow."
I understand that there was likely no space and time before God created it. I think, too, that it is a natural law that if there is space, there is time, that the two go together. If there is space, there is movement, which requires there also be time.
Genesis 8:22
"While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease."
I know the New Jerusalem after coming to the Earth will not need light for God's light will light it, but also..
Concordant version - also Gen 8:22
"In the future, for all the days of the earth, seedtime and harvest, + cold and warmth, + summer and winter, +
day and night, they shall not cease."
To me, this implies space (and time).. and if there is space and movement.. implies time.. from one point of motion to another..
But of course, this is but theory and present human understanding and also present natural law.. which God is beyond and more than.. Yet my thought is, perhaps a universe (bubble?) populated by His very own family (of many beautiful branches) is part of His intent.. To not just create sentient beings, but surroundings, environment, life, activity.. Being in His image, also, I think, includes being creative.. not creator, but creative.. active.. I do think substance will be finer, and lighter (with no unrightness :thumbsup: ).. "I go to prepare a place for you" ..."in my Father's house are many abodes/abiding places.."
No space and time, to my finite understanding implies we would be only mind.. so why would we then require a new body...
:Peace2: :smile: just some thoughts..
QuoteThe debate/discussion continues as to whether time existed before and will exist after "eonian times" (the 5 eons) have run their course. This debate will prove inconclusive because it was never God's intention to tell us much of what was going on in the spirit realm outside of the period of the eons. The matter of endlessness is not at all a subject of scripture, but eonian times is the sole theme of the inspired Word
We know not yet wht we shall be,, but we know that when He appears, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
I go to prepare a place for you, that where I am, you will be also.
I agree whole heartedly that some things are debated, that ought only be discussed, because there is no clear revelation or plain writing concerning them in the scriptures.....only hints and glimpses.
Even future aionian times are only broadly spoken of in general terms, as glorious and of great blessing to the elect, for the purpose of continuing the restoration of creation in these stages known as eons. Even the far distant past is only addressed in a few paragraphs, everything up to Abraham being summed up in a few chapters. Almost everything else that is written for this age regards the elect- the patriarchs, the judges, the prophets, the Messiah and the ecclesia. But what is written between the lines is the honey of the Word to me. Insights into who He is, how much He loves us all and how Wonderful His plan really is.
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.(Rom 8)
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Eph 2)
Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God. (James 1)
Quote"Insights into who He is, how much He loves us all and how Wonderful His plan really is."
:thumbsup: :banana: :thumbsup: amen, amen! :smile: the most relevant things..!
http://1drv.ms/1mDksWN (http://1drv.ms/1mDksWN)
Great graphic EW. As has been said a picture is worth a 1000 words
Marie and your posts have given me motivation to continue in this thread.
:dsunny:
Quote from: Seth on June 27, 2015, 03:41:22 AM
The phrase "in the beginning" is pretty vague imo. It doesn't have to mean anything other than our own universe.
I believe that to be the case.. :smile:
Quote from: marie glen on January 07, 2016, 05:02:18 PM
Quote from: Seth on June 27, 2015, 03:41:22 AM
The phrase "in the beginning" is pretty vague imo. It doesn't have to mean anything other than our own universe.
I believe that to be the case.. :smile:
See post #29
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 04, 2015, 06:41:16 PM
Gen. 1:1 In the BEGINNING (H7225 the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically a firstfruit): - beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time), principal thing.)
Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
1Co 15:20 (Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing."
Col 1:16 for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him,
Col 1:17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."
Jesus Christ is the "in the beginning" He is the Firstfruit He is the Principal thing He is Wisdom.
Pro 8:23 From the eon was I inaugurated, From the beginning, preceeding the earth;"
Jesus Christ is the "in the beginning" He is the Firstfruit He is the Principal thing He is Wisdom. :Peace2:
:thumbsup: :banana: :banana: Jesus Christ is the wisdom of God :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction!
But we who are being saved
know it is the very power of God. As the Scriptures say,
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise
and discard the intelligence of the intelligent."
So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world's brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it's all nonsense.
But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles,
Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God's weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.
Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world's eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you. Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.
God has united you with Christ Jesus
. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. Therefore, as the Scriptures say, "If you want to boast, boast only about the Lord."
:cloud9: Well, I'll throw out there what He gave me years ago on time. Time is the measurement of death. Something has to die to create time (think of the seasons for example and winter). Therefore there's no time in His Spirit because there's no death in His Spirit. When He poured Himself into the physicality of His creation, it was a "lowering", a type of death, making time possible. My :2c: Blessings....
I agree totally,Bex
"Time is the measurement of death. Something has to die to create time (think of the seasons for example and winter)."
This is an incredible statement, incredible. So "winter" is death? Death, which is DEAD measures time? Time does not stop or nothing would happen...nothing. Winter begets Spring....so Winter is dead and still produces?
"When He poured Himself into the physicality of His creation," He did not "pour" Himself into the creation...He Is The Creation! :2c: blessings :dsunny: :HeartThrob: Oh I forgot to ad in my opinion.
:cloud9: I didn't say winter WAS death, it was obviously an example of PERCEIVING death, because in the winter's up north, a lot of things, DIE. Seasons change, display different states of growth and death. All these natural occurrences were given to display spiritual truths, just like the Tabernacle of Moses, another witness. Because they came forth from Him, they can do nothing but display His nature in a "lowered" or "lesser" form, just like the woman and the soul is the lesser glory yet she still possesses glory.
You got it backwards; I didn't say death measures time, I said time is the measurement of death. Before the creation WAS, He WAS, and He is/was Spirit, and He poured Himself out like water into what was made by Him. Which is why B for berecrap (Genesis) was the first letter used in Genesis and not the A. He created the "house" and then He filled it with Himself. My :2c: Blessings...
"I didn't say winter WAS death, it was obviously an example of PERCEIVING death, because in the winter's up north, a lot of things, DIE."
You said, "Time is the measurement of death. Something has to die to create time (think of the seasons for example and winter)." Perceiving? And "something has to die to create time" So without something dying there is no time?
You said " I didn't say winter WAS death, it was obviously an example of PERCEIVING death, because in the winter's up north, a lot of things, DIE."
In Winter up north, things go dormant, they do not die. Then you said, "Therefore there's no time in His Spirit because there's no death in His Spirit."
Where did you get the idea there is "no time in His spirit" just what is not happening in His spirit at any time ? Nothing?
Now this one really got me, "just like the woman and the soul is the lesser glory yet she still possesses glory." Could you explain that to me?
Yeah I am a bit befuddled. :Chinscratch:
I do see what Bex is saying and understand your stance on this Micah
It is true death , being compared to winter in the sense of dormancy... A cold lifeless HOLD for a season .. Just as Jesus dies on the cross in 1 Cor 15 Paul explains , this death [ to only know Jesus Christ and Him crucified ] would bring all LIFE in new creation from within Himself [ by Him and though Him and for Him are all things Col 1 , what is dead being the Lord/ Master /Chief / first of this pattern ,
of the dead would make new life come from His substance '' Christ 'by faith in GODS WORD by the SPIRIT ' anointing/to smear with Holy oil and keep the fire burning of Holy Spirit of God the Father ]] ... as the perfect could only do ... there is no corruption whatsoever ,it is pure , Holy , clean ,
This is why Jesus said , I desire it you would be hot or cold , on fire for God[ Holy Spirit & fire or lifeless as one dead , the lukewarm state of the last day church [ This WORD spoken ,judges us on the last Day , does become , and that warning shows us that it is unworkable and will be cast out of His body , to die , rejected branches to be burned , Only the dead/cold and the living/hot are HIS , being the Lord /Master of the dead and the Living , cold to raise to life again from the dead or Hot and teachable and receiving of Him , this world is on FIRE , and the natural eye cannot see it , Jesus come to set the world on fire and His cross is that pivotal point , to judge the quick and the dead ...
The hope is in the Lord to make the new life spring forth as the new season He ordains and sets in motion by His desire . this is why Paul could say I die daily ,,, the world put him to death hating him , but Christ kept Him alive in hope by faith that He will also experience the glory of GOD being in the risen Christ
1 Cor 15 in The Order of Resurrection.........
...30Why are we also in danger every hour? 31I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE....
Jesus come to raise the dead to Life again from among the dead ... by His Word and Spirit do we worship God the Father
I agree with you in the sense of in the fulness of Time , because time is a measure , GOD set in motion this event , that Christ come as a babe by the woman born UNDER LAW , bondage law of moses ministration of death to set the world free from corruption /DEATH , this pattern SON , manchild [Rev 12 ], that would though the Church /assembly of ISRAEL , ALL THOSE GATHERED BEFORE Him were set free in the moment of His own rising up in GLORY and that GLORY REMAINS TO THIS DAY ... bringing many sons in to the same glory before the world was being created by HIM and making new ,, 1Cor 15 ..
This whole post was not meant to be , some got lost , but Gods will be done :HeartThrob: love to you all in Christ our greatest hope ALIVE
"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed".
It seems to me that there are two definitions of time that need to be considered.
There is the "time" that belongs to God.
There is the "time" that belongs to man.
If God never changes then man's time is outside of God.
Ever-present time, God's time, is caused to overflow by sinful man who separates himself from God.
Hence ever-present time outflows into man's time, night, and inflows as day until it is once again reconciled in ever-present time.
Now is the time. Within is the unchanging Spirit. The Christ of God ever calls the children of God to recognise His unchanging Nature within them.
Leaving the sinful nature behind and living unto Him in the Spirit. Unfolding ever-revealing youthfulness which has always been unchanging. It is there to be had by all, in my opinion.
Peace.
Quote from: lastpost on January 08, 2016, 03:34:02 PM
"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed".
It seems to me that there are two definitions of time that need to be considered.
There is the "time" that belongs to God.
There is the "time" that belongs to man.
If God never changes then man's time is outside of God.
Ever-present time, God's time, is caused to overflow by sinful man who separates himself from God.
Hence ever-present time outflows into man's time, night, and inflows as day until it is once again reconciled in ever-present time.
Now is the time. Within is the unchanging Spirit. The Christ of God ever calls the children of God to recognise His unchanging Nature within them.
Leaving the sinful nature behind and living unto Him in the Spirit. Unfolding ever-revealing youthfulness which has always been unchanging. It is there to be had by all, in my opinion.
Peace.
:thumbsup: Wait upon the Lord !! Isaiah 40 But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. :banana:
Walkin the Spirit of light and life , here is the patience of the holy ones /saints , The burning bush was not consumed as well!!
Revelation 14:12-20Expanded Bible (EXB)
This means ·God's holy people [T the saints
] must ·be patient [persevere; endure]. They must ·obey [keep] God's commands and ·keep their faith in
[remain faithful to] Jesus.Then I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Write this: ·Blessed [or Happy] are the dead who die from now on in the Lord."
The Spirit says, "Yes, they will rest from their hard work, ·and the reward of all they have done stays with them [L for their deeds will follow them]."
Then I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and sitting on the white cloud was One who looked like a ·Son of Man [or human being; C a designation Jesus applied to himself; Dan. 7:13–14]. He had a gold crown on his head and a sharp sickle
[C a curved blade used to harvest grain] in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called out in a loud voice to the One who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and ·harvest [reap] from the earth, because the time to ·harvest [reap] has come, ·and [L because] the ·fruit [L harvest] of the earth is ripe." So the One who was sitting on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was ·harvested [reaped].
Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. And then another angel, who has ·power [authority; charge] over the fire, came from the altar. This angel called to the angel with the sharp sickle, saying,
"Take your sharp sickle and gather the bunches [clusters] of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe." Then the angel swung his sickle over the earth. He gathered the earth's grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's ·anger [wrath; Is. 63:2–3, 6; Lam. 1:15]. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the winepress as high as horses' bridles for a distance of about ·one hundred eighty miles [L one thousand six hundred stadia].
Babylon is falling :dsunny:
Quote from: Cardinal on January 08, 2016, 12:31:46 AM
:cloud9: Well, I'll throw out there what He gave me years ago on time. Time is the measurement of death. Something has to die to create time (think of the seasons for example and winter). Therefore there's no time in His Spirit because there's no death in His Spirit. When He poured Himself into the physicality of His creation, it was a "lowering", a type of death, making time possible. My :2c: Blessings....
Time is the measurement of death. Something has to die to create time.
Those are most profound statements.
When God created the physical universe, He may have done it by what the scientists call the "Big Bang Theory".
We do not know for sure, but this we do know:
The physical universe, the entire cosmos, is ever expanding and gradually dying. Astrophysicists call this expansion the red shift. Even our sun, ole sol, is slowly burning out. Reminds me of the time I heard someone say that the universe is like a giant watch or clock that was wound up long ago and is gradually ticking away until it stops. At the end of the aeons everything will change at the consummation and God becomes ALL IN ALL.
The earth and universe are waxing old:
Isa_51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Peace and harmony :Peace2:
Joe
Quote from: joeteekay on January 08, 2016, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on January 08, 2016, 12:31:46 AM
:cloud9: Well, I'll throw out there what He gave me years ago on time. Time is the measurement of death. Something has to die to create time (think of the seasons for example and winter). Therefore there's no time in His Spirit because there's no death in His Spirit. When He poured Himself into the physicality of His creation, it was a "lowering", a type of death, making time possible. My :2c: Blessings....
Time is the measurement of death. Something has to die to create time.
Those are most profound statements.
When God created the physical universe, He may have done it by what the scientists call the "Big Bang Theory".
We do not know for sure, but this we do know:
The physical universe, the entire cosmos, is ever expanding and gradually dying. Astrophysicists call this expansion the red shift. Even our sun, ole sol, is slowly burning out. Reminds me of the time I heard someone say that the universe is like a giant watch or clock that was wound up long ago and is gradually ticking away until it stops. At the end of the aeons everything will change at the consummation and God becomes ALL IN ALL.
The earth and universe are waxing old:
Isa_51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Peace and harmony :Peace2:
Joe
Amen Joeteekay ,,
I can see that naturally and spiritually speaking as , a TRUTH in both cases /realms :HeartThrob:
Quote from: lastpost on January 08, 2016, 03:34:02 PM
Unfolding ever-revealing youthfulness which has always been unchanging.
:thumbsup: ..amen! life! love, light.. Jehovah..
Quote from: Cardinal on January 08, 2016, 12:31:46 AM
When He poured Himself into the physicality of His creation, it was a "lowering"
..do you mean a becoming denser sort of thing?
I often think of how beautiful it was! I love to remember how He said after the 6th day "behold it is all good.."
"He is making new heavens and a new earth.." thank goodness because we've done a number on this one! If we could travel through the universe, just imagine what havoc we could do.. Someone posted, this ones' on fire.. It is.. We didn't build on the rock. :doh:
Quote from: joeteekay on January 08, 2016, 06:48:49 PM
When God created the physical universe, He may have done it by what the scientists call the "Big Bang Theory".
We do not know for sure, but this we do know:
The physical universe, the entire cosmos, is ever expanding and gradually dying. Astrophysicists call this expansion the red shift. Even our sun, ole sol, is slowly burning out. Reminds me of the time I heard someone say that the universe is like a giant watch or clock that was wound up long ago and is gradually ticking away until it stops. At the end of the aeons everything will change at the consummation and God becomes ALL IN ALL.
The earth and universe are waxing old:
Isa_51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Peace and harmony :Peace2:
Joe
Amen! If only we'd built on the Rock! ..But, this is the life of doing everything wrong.. How else to prove the utter ridiculousness of drifting away from God..
Verse 13, praise the Lord :smile: says "..and for new heavens and a new earth according to His promise we do wait, in which righteousness doth dwell" (YLT)
Like Isaiah 65:17, which says "For, lo, I am creating new heavens, and a new earth.." (YLT)
Just imagine how beautiful that original garden was.. But alas! You can't have rational creatures if there's no choice involved whatsoever. ..So here we are.. we might as well 'enjoy the ride' as they say.. Or buckle our seat belts.. I agree with Micah.. that these days are shifting sands.
:smile:
Quote from: joeteekay on January 08, 2016, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on January 08, 2016, 12:31:46 AM
:cloud9: Well, I'll throw out there what He gave me years ago on time. Time is the measurement of death. Something has to die to create time (think of the seasons for example and winter). Therefore there's no time in His Spirit because there's no death in His Spirit. When He poured Himself into the physicality of His creation, it was a "lowering", a type of death, making time possible. My :2c: Blessings....
Time is the measurement of death. Something has to die to create time.
Those are most profound statements.
When God created the physical universe, He may have done it by what the scientists call the "Big Bang Theory".
We do not know for sure, but this we do know:
The physical universe, the entire cosmos, is ever expanding and gradually dying. Astrophysicists call this expansion the red shift. Even our sun, ole sol, is slowly burning out. Reminds me of the time I heard someone say that the universe is like a giant watch or clock that was wound up long ago and is gradually ticking away until it stops. At the end of the aeons everything will change at the consummation and God becomes ALL IN ALL.
The earth and universe are waxing old:
Isa_51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Peace and harmony :Peace2:
Joe
:cloud9: Yes it is. Going along in this same vein, I was in bible study one time and He gave me an open eye vision. I saw nothing but light, going from my left, super fast as first, then slowing down, showing the different speeds of it as gradations of gray until it became pitch black and came to a stop it seemed; then it went on from gradations of gray back into super fast bright light. He said, "You have just witnessed creation." We came out of the light, and to the light we (and all of groaning creation) return to the light. Since to quicken our mortal body means to speed up, sort of takes on a new meaning doesn't it? Take or leave it, my :2c: Blessings....
I was thinking a bit of somewhat along those lines today.. as "the creation itself groans awaiting the glorious Liberty"... It groans, I was thinking, to return to perfection! That spotless garden He created - and is creating. I was thinking what else could it be groaning for? Except under its burden of imperfection.
And since He is both life and perfection, what GOOD news it actually is, that nothing, utterly nothing imperfect can endure.. Imperfection being intrinsically the opposite of Life.
:dsunny:
The plan of the eons (ages) was conceived in the heart of God who purposed all things after the counsel of His own will (Eph 1:11). That plan is being accomplished one step at a time in each succeeding age.
Ephesians 3:11 Diaglott according to a plan of the ages, which he formed in Anointed Jesus the Lord of us;
In a previous post on this thread I mentioned scriptures that revealed that the plan as "eonian times". There are 5 eons in that plan.
Our all-wise heavenly Father planned the events of each successive eon from the very first one unto the last one culminating in the consummation
Understanding God's plan opens entirely new and greater vistas of the love, wisdom and power of God. It is not any longer a question of the Church working to get souls saved, but it has become the reality of God working out His plan and purpose for all people through the eons He created.
All the eons are created for Jesus the Christ.
Hebrews 1:2 ECB and in these final days speaks to us in Son: whom he placed heir of all; through whom also he made the eons:
The 5 eons are:
1. the Disruption, Gen. 1:2
2. the Deluge, Gen. 6
3. the Day of Indignation, Rom. 2:5
4. the judgment Rev. 20
5. the consummation
This entire long phase is called eonian times in scripture. Though these times deal with long periods, nevertheless, each one of the five always has a beginning, and an ending. Every ending has a calamitous effect.
The first eon
This first eon that began with the creation of the physical universe. After completing their planning and design, God (Elohim) formed physical laws, matter, and life by converting spirit into the physical universe. Man had not been created yet.
HEB 11:3 KJV - the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
Genesis 1:1 CLV Created by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth.
Isaiah 45:18 CLV For thus says Yahweh, Creator of the heavens; He is the Elohim, and Former of the earth, and its Maker, and He, He established it. He did not create it a chaos. He formed it to be indwelt. "I am Yahweh, and there is none else."
Isaiah 45:18 KJV For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
The physical universe was not created in state of chaos. It became that way at some time after the initial creation This event is often referred to as the disruption.
Genesis 1:2 CLV Yet the earth became a chaos and vacant, and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos. Yet the spirit of the Elohim is vibrating over the surface of the water.
The Concordant translates the Hebrew as became chaos and vacant.
The King James translates the Hebrew as it became without form and void.
The earth was "perfect" when it was created, but something catastrophic happened afterward. The earth became a chaos and void. Physical evidence for the disruption abounds in the geology of the earth, which predates the great flood of Noah's time by millions of years. Some people believe that the disruption occurred when Satan was brought into existence to play his part as the Adversary of God. God allowed him to unleash his destructive power to cause the disruption. It may well have been a time that the pre-historic creatures roamed the earth, all of which perished in the cataclysm.
Now God would renew the surface of the earth and make it ready for His creation of man.
Psalms 104:30 CLV You send forth Your spirit; they are created, And You renew the face of the ground."
The second eon commences with the renewal of the earth and the creation of everything necessary for man and his existence, including man himself.
Next time we look at the subsequent eons.
:friendstu:
Quote from: joeteekay on March 14, 2016, 04:50:01 AM
The plan of the eons (ages) was conceived in the heart of God who purposed all things after the counsel of His own will (Eph 1:11). That plan is being accomplished one step at a time in each succeeding age.
Ephesians 3:11 Diaglott according to a plan of the ages, which he formed in Anointed Jesus the Lord of us;
In a previous post on this thread I mentioned scriptures that revealed that the plan as "eonian times". There are 5 eons in that plan.
Our all-wise heavenly Father planned the events of each successive eon from the very first one unto the last one culminating in the consummation
Understanding God's plan opens entirely new and greater vistas of the love, wisdom and power of God. It is not any longer a question of the Church working to get souls saved, but it has become the reality of God working out His plan and purpose for all people through the eons He created.
All the eons are created for Jesus the Christ.
Hebrews 1:2 ECB and in these final days speaks to us in Son: whom he placed heir of all; through whom also he made the eons:
The 5 eons are:
1. the Disruption, Gen. 1:2
2. the Deluge, Gen. 6
3. the Day of Indignation, Rom. 2:5
4. the judgment Rev. 20
5. the consummation
This entire long phase is called eonian times in scripture. Though these times deal with long periods, nevertheless, each one of the five always has a beginning, and an ending. Every ending has a calamitous effect.
The first eon
This first eon that began with the creation of the physical universe. After completing their planning and design, God (Elohim) formed physical laws, matter, and life by converting spirit into the physical universe. Man had not been created yet.
HEB 11:3 KJV - the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
Genesis 1:1 CLV Created by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth.
Isaiah 45:18 CLV For thus says Yahweh, Creator of the heavens; He is the Elohim, and Former of the earth, and its Maker, and He, He established it. He did not create it a chaos. He formed it to be indwelt. "I am Yahweh, and there is none else."
Isaiah 45:18 KJV For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
The physical universe was not created in state of chaos. It became that way at some time after the initial creation This event is often referred to as the disruption.
Genesis 1:2 CLV Yet the earth became a chaos and vacant, and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos. Yet the spirit of the Elohim is vibrating over the surface of the water.
The Concordant translates the Hebrew as became chaos and vacant.
The King James translates the Hebrew as it became without form and void.
The earth was "perfect" when it was created, but something catastrophic happened afterward. The earth became a chaos and void. Physical evidence for the disruption abounds in the geology of the earth, which predates the great flood of Noah's time by millions of years. Some people believe that the disruption occurred when Satan was brought into existence to play his part as the Adversary of God. God allowed him to unleash his destructive power to cause the disruption. It may well have been a time that the pre-historic creatures roamed the earth, all of which perished in the cataclysm.
Now God would renew the surface of the earth and make it ready for His creation of man.
Psalms 104:30 CLV You send forth Your spirit; they are created, And You renew the face of the ground."
The second eon commences with the renewal of the earth and the creation of everything necessary for man and his existence, including man himself.
Next time we look at the subsequent eons.
:friendstu:
yes, 5 eons (or more ) revealed to us but I believe God's eons will stretch on an on and on and on and on into the Ages..its very exciting !... :banana: :banana: :banana: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :gimmefive:
Continuing on the topic of the eons, five of which can be identified in scripture. Already covered the overview and the first eon in this thread.
The 5 eons are:
1. the Disruption, Gen. 1:2
2. the Deluge, Gen. 6
3. the Day of Indignation, Rom. 2:5
4. the judgment Rev. 20
5. the consummation
This entire long phase is called eonian times in scripture. Though these times deal with long periods, nevertheless, each one of the five always has a beginning, and an ending. Every ending has a calamitous effect.
Now the second
The second eon
A long time after the disruption God renewed the face of the earth in preparation for his supreme creation.
Genesis 1:3 – 5 CLV And saying is the Elohim, "Become light!" And it is becoming light.
4 And seeing is the Elohim the light, that it is good. And separating is the Elohim between the light and the darkness.
5 And calling is the Elohim the light "day, and the darkness He calls "night." And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, day one.
Then God (Elohim) continues creating for the next six days as we read in the verses Gen 1:2- 26. ). How long ago did this stage of creation take place? Many believe that according to the Bible the creation of the physical universe was only about 6,000 years ago. However, the text allows for a different interpretation. A close examination of the Scriptures reveals that there could have been a long period of time between the original creation of the earth and the re-creation of all that was on it described in Genesis 1:3-31.
There are some very strong proponents of a day being a literal 24 hour period. This is a point of considerable contention. The day can also be understood as a Hebrew idiom, representing an unknown length of time. The Hebrew word is YOM (H3117). The concordances indicate it has a wide range of meanings, not just a 24 hour period. A good web site which discusses this topic including the meaning of sunrise to sunset is:
http://godandscience.org/youngearth/longdays.html
So in the first and second chapters of Genesis are described the beginning of mankind in the Garden of Eden. It is interesting that despite this being a Paradise where Adam and Eve lived in the presence of God, Satan existed even in this place. The serpent lived in their midst, and had access to Adam and Eve so as to tempt them. This was not a neutral setting, where Adam and Eve would simply live in obedience to God. The evil one lived among them, and tempted them. We know what happened.
Thus began the deterioration of man. Once expelled from the Garden, mankind follows a steady course of sin and self-destruction. Cain kills Abel. Evil runs rampant. Mankind degenerates to such a great degree that God destroys them all in a great flood, also called the Deluge. This most certainly does not mean that God made a mistake in this second eon because of what happened. But it does tell us that without knowledge of God and His ways leads to ruin. Sin results in death.
In Genesis 6 we find the wicked being destroyed in the flood and only the righteous Noah and his family surviving. Thus end the second eon and the third eon commences.
My :2c:
I don't think time existed,as we know it, until God created someone, maybe Adam, maybe someone on another planet, to exist.
God lives in the clock of eternity, for the most part, exception being when Jesus became man, while still being God. ( Just guessing, of course.)
Time was created for his creatures, who needed it as a reference and a framework to move within.
I believe, that, at some point, maybe immediately, after we die, we enter into the eternal clock. Of course, I have no idea how that would work.
I enjoy thinking about these things, though. :drama:
D.
Quote from: Dandelion on July 05, 2016, 01:57:31 AM
My :2c:
I don't think time existed,as we know it, until God created someone, maybe Adam, maybe someone on another planet, to exist.
God lives in the clock of eternity, for the most part, exception being when Jesus became man, while still being God. ( Just guessing, of course.)
Time was created for his creatures, who needed it as a reference and a framework to move within.
I believe, that, at some point, maybe immediately, after we die, we enter into the eternal clock. Of course, I have no idea how that would work.
I enjoy thinking about these things, though. :drama:
D.
:thumbsup:
Thank you, EW.
I just wanted to add, that one thing about the eternal clock, that I imagine, is that we can go from past to present to future, whenever we wish to. Perhaps more like entering a room, where an 'event' is taking place, and being able to leave the room, then go back again. Like the gadget that lets you freeze television shows and go back and forth, or even have them on your screen, simultaneously.
Present might take on a whole new meaning, because of all the possibilities to enter into, happening simultaneously.
D.
Quote
A little understood aspect of how God works with His physical creation are the scriptures dealing with the eons. With out a doubt, it is vitally important to understand the wonderful truth of the saving work of Jesus. That is of primary importance. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world.
But, even of the saints, few have any clear idea of the object of all creation and revelation. It seems difficult for us to associate Christ with anything more than His sacrifice and redemption. He died for the sins of the world. The great truth that He is the Firstborn of creation seems to have vanished from the consciousness of Christendom ( from Knoch).
and,
Quote
God's grand and glorious purpose will never be fully understood until we learn that this Greek word "aion" transliterated "eon" by the (Concordant Version), is a time word.
Amen! :thumbsup: :iagree:
Quote from: joeteekay on March 14, 2016, 04:50:01 AM
The plan of the eons (ages) was conceived in the heart of God who purposed all things after the counsel of His own will (Eph 1:11). That plan is being accomplished one step at a time in each succeeding age.
The 5 eons are:
1. the Disruption, Gen. 1:2
2. the Deluge, Gen. 6
3. the Day of Indignation, Rom. 2:5
4. the judgment Rev. 20
5. the consummation
..this got me to thinking.. and wanting to summarize the eons/ages as I have thought of them.. 'after' when there was undifferentiated Yahweh/God eternal.. then the "firstborn" as "primary", the only 'straight out from Yahweh one.. then the creation of the angels, for a time 'only' Father, Son and the angels-though rational creatures, thus able to make choices, there being 'only' Father, Son and angels, not that much to go astray about, nevertheless, the universe and man and woman not created until after the first (bound to occur?) rebel thought occurred and also fully matured... (why? :smile" ..perhaps so all would take this unavoidable journey and lesson together, all at once? unavoidable if there's to be rationality?)
The eons of the universe: (?)
Not biblical, just my own summarizing..
#1 - The beginning?
creation (a week - 7 days - 6 days / six "a morning and an evening" and a 7th of "rest" -- the account in chapter 2 I believe is an insert magnifying or that is, providing more detail of the account/summary given in chapter one.
Adam and Eve in the garden.. Yahweh walking in the garden in the cool of the evening.. the adversary's sedition and trickery/deception [thinking ability includes choice, once imperfection sets in, oppression is bound to rear its ugly head?]
The promise of Messiah who will bruise the adversary's head (a sort of death blow?)
And Adam and Eve, thus mankind/all born after and from them, are banished from the tree of life, lest they live forever in the imperfect/"missing the mark"/sin condition.
#2 - The Nations - The utter fall (aided by Nephilim? ancient giant/mythic men of renown/legends? - tho before this 'mother goddess'? faint memories of Eve, whom Adam called "the mother of all" (sorry getting a little sidetracked.. :laughing7: )
The deluge - Tower Babel --> the nations
#3 - The call of Abraham and the nation - Israel
#4 - Messiah - beginning with the announcements prior to His birth, at His birth, and then by the Baptist - the prophesied voice in the wilderness, may way/ready His path.. Jesus' life, execution, resurrection --> acsension (the only - the gnostics/collected hidden knowledge of the pagan faiths/ideas, were obsessed with ascension - from the levels of Tower Babel to the New Testament era gnostics; :2c: but only one has ascended or will ascend - the elect during the millenium will 'rule'/reign on earth, not from God's Throne; imo)
#5 - Last Days - the years of our Lord A.D. - in Revelation, the Seals of God are the main elements of, described as a blend of what they are at their beginning and what they are at their end ( a 'lock' on the vision, one of at least 2?) The trumpets are in the 7th Seal and the bowls (concurrent??) are in the 7th trump. [The trumpets including the 7th/last fulfilling the fall holy day, Trumpets; tares gathered to Armageddon and wheat into His barn/the millennium]
#6 - The Millennium (
1000 years) of Jesus reign on Earth not yet made new - (
fulfilling the 10 days between Trumpets and Day of Atonement of the fall holy days)
#7 - Great White Throne Judgment 'Day'/Age - fulfilling (and consisting of) the 5 days between Day of Atonement and Tabernacles of the fall holy days
Commences with the resurrection of the tares, all those not yet born again/believing - the weeping and gnashing of teeth and outer darkness of those who have reason to be terrified - "fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" - I mean despots and the like, both minor and major.. satisfaction and some vindication for the sake of their victims, reap as the sowed, etc.
In and like the pattern of ancient Israel's annual, collective "Day of Atonement" - of repentance and reconciliation - Lev 23 "whosoever will not afflict his 'soul' on that day will be separated from his people" (paraphrased from memory) ...i.e., all those (still?) not believing, will go to the 2nd death, the lake of sacred purification, for a duration.
Until -
Tabernacles -
1 Corinthians 15:28, "And when all things are subjected to Him (Christ), then the Son Himself will also be subjected to the One (the Father) who put all things under Him, so that God/Yahweh may be
all in all"
Revelation 21:3, "And I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, `Lo, the
tabernacle of God [is] with men, and He will
tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them -- their God" ....
all in all! :banana:
The family of God.. Full understanding of good from evil / life from nonlife deeeeply engraved upon each one's heart, mind and psyche.
:dsunny: :cloud9: