Read and be as amazed as I was at what this person said.
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Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 10:55:08 PM
Read and be as amazed as I was at what this person said.
Just to clarify, this person also said: "People can change, thus changing there fate".
I'm not "shocked" or "amazed" because this is just the false doctrine of orthodoxy. I do not believe man's "choice" overrides God's will or there is any "burning in hell."
"Jesus loves me, this I know
Even thought to Hell I may go..."
:footmouth: :footmouth: :footmouth: :footmouth: :footmouth: :footmouth: :footmouth: :footmouth: :footmouth: :footmouth:
Quote from: Tom on November 21, 2014, 11:01:51 PM
I'm not "shocked" or "amazed" because this is just the false doctrine of orthodoxy. I do not believe man's "choice" overrides God's will or there is any "burning in hell."
Well I seriously can't believe this person can say "God knows we will ultimately end up in Heaven or Hell, but he doesn't know for sure where we will end up until we turn to him or die". Is this the first time you've seen this or is it just because I am newer to this. When he said that, I gave up because I knew there was getting no through to him.
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 10:55:08 PM
Read and be as amazed as I was at what this person said.
Isn't the God described here being kind of tricky.
If hell is the worst place God could develop a place so bad that no human being would want to be there.
Wouldn't he have to trick them into believing that hell was not that bad.
Then he would go aha I caught you.
You said you didn't care about hell.
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 11:31:44 PM
Quote from: Tom on November 21, 2014, 11:01:51 PM
I'm not "shocked" or "amazed" because this is just the false doctrine of orthodoxy. I do not believe man's "choice" overrides God's will or there is any "burning in hell."
Well I seriously can't believe this person can say "God knows we will ultimately end up in Heaven or Hell, but he doesn't know for sure where we will end up until we turn to him or die". Is this the first time you've seen this or is it just because I am newer to this. When he said that, I gave up because I knew there was getting no through to him.
Like I said, that's the orthodox doctrine of salvation by works. The thing about free will is man wants to think he's in charge of his destiny, but God "is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will" (Ephesians 1:11). "He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight" (Ephesians 1:4). We don't "choose" to be saved because we were chosen for eonian life in Christ long before we were even born, but eventually all mankind will be saved at the consummation of the eons (1 Corinthians 15:20-28).
Quote from: Tom on November 22, 2014, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 11:31:44 PM
Quote from: Tom on November 21, 2014, 11:01:51 PM
I'm not "shocked" or "amazed" because this is just the false doctrine of orthodoxy. I do not believe man's "choice" overrides God's will or there is any "burning in hell."
Well I seriously can't believe this person can say "God knows we will ultimately end up in Heaven or Hell, but he doesn't know for sure where we will end up until we turn to him or die". Is this the first time you've seen this or is it just because I am newer to this. When he said that, I gave up because I knew there was getting no through to him.
Like I said, that's the orthodox doctrine of salvation by works. The thing about free will is man wants to think he's in charge of his destiny, but God "is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will" (Ephesians 1:11). "He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight" (Ephesians 1:4). We don't "choose" to be saved because we were chosen for eonian life in Christ long before we were even born, but eventually all mankind will be saved at the consummation of the eons (1 Corinthians 15:20-28).
I get what you are saying, but what surprised me as him saying that God is omniscient and he sees u sin Hell, but if we come to him then he sees us in Heaven. Doesn't that mean God isn't omniscient if what he is saying were to be true?
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 10:56:43 PM
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 10:55:08 PM
Read and be as amazed as I was at what this person said.
Just to clarify, this person also said: "People can change, thus changing there fate".
But they cannot change God. God says "I change not." Therefore, if God knows something before you were born, if his knowledge changes, then God is shown as being wrong in his original knowledge.
Right, what he is saying can't be true because God transcends time, and therefore knows the future. So man is not able to make a choice that God does not already foresee.
Quote from: Tom on November 22, 2014, 01:30:20 AM
Right, what he is saying can't be true because God transcends time, and therefore knows the future. So man is not able to make a choice that God does not already foresee.
Well in all fairness, I forget that God transcends time and I think it is easier to say God transcend time then actually try to comprehend. Not to mention, the church says God is all powerful, but always limits his power in whatever way works best with the hell doctrine.
God made time.
"in accord with the purpose of the eons, which He makes in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 3:11)
He is not bound by time. That's why he knows what we perceive as the future.
So, I'm equally omniscient to God.
I also know the beginning from the end. I see winning lottery ticket numbers in my dreams. It's just that the machine that draws the numbers keeps making the wrong choice. That's why I never won.
That's about what that guy says.
The good part is that the sinners likely pick heaven over hell. So God's view of hell will just be another wrong prediction. :winkgrin:
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 11:31:44 PM
Quote from: Tom on November 21, 2014, 11:01:51 PM
I'm not "shocked" or "amazed" because this is just the false doctrine of orthodoxy. I do not believe man's "choice" overrides God's will or there is any "burning in hell."
Well I seriously can't believe this person can say "God knows we will ultimately end up in Heaven or Hell, but he doesn't know for sure where we will end up until we turn to him or die". Is this the first time you've seen this or is it just because I am newer to this. When he said that, I gave up because I knew there was getting no through to him.
Well when it comes to the issue of predestination. Was King Solomon not predestined to build the temple? and Isaiah not predestined to be a prophet? God knew from their birth who they would become. As I mentioned in a previous post, I believe God knows what we will do before we do.
"He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight" (Ephesians 1:4)