Father Knows Best

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Hi all!
Please excuse me if I don't explain things the way I intend to..
Here goes:

Do you look to Jesus or to the Father?

Jesus said that He did nothing of Himself. (If you asked Jesus what He's doing, He'd say, "I'm copying my Father.")
He was the only begotten (but not only) Son of God, and what He heard of the Father, that He spoke/did. The Father was doing works through the Son.

Can we expect the same thing today? WE MUST.

Instead of focusing on Jesus in order to be conformed to His likeness, we must focus on the Father. Then we will clearly comprehend who/what Jesus really was/is, and we will be like Him.

To understand the Son, look to the Father. THAT is SONSHIP.

The world looks at Jesus, and sees a man who speaks mysterious things. Where did He get these things He said? Where did He get His responses and power? From the Father! (Since the world doesn't know/look to the Father, Jesus remains a mystery to them.)

It's as though the Son is the Father in the Earth (physical body).

If you are hearing the Father today, you are (at least momentarily) walking in Sonship. And if that is the case, Jesus is not a mystery to you. :girlheart: :boyheart: :gangel:

John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.




Love to all,
Brian

[SeekerSA]

:goodpost: Brian

Yup, Father is the focus, not Jesus.

Like we all pray to the Father and end off in Jesus name.

The truth is hidden in plain sight.

Blessings

[Loveroftruth]

You nailed it! :ty: :trampoline: :banana: :angelharp: :friendstu: :2thumbs: :gthumbsup: :mthumbsup: :grouppray: :banana: :angelharp: :gguitar: :drummer: :drummer: :drummer:

[Loveroftruth]

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.  Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


The spirit lead us to CRY OUT TO THE FATHER - Abba means "daddy"

Why do some stop and never enter :dontknow:

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Maybe because many churches today are focused on Jesus. Nothing against Him, it's just that it seems misplaced.
As a result, many don't understand or even expect Sonship!

Bri

[AbbasChild]

Some good and wonderful thoughts. It is my prayer that more and more people will get to know the Heart of our Abba, Father. Jesus truly is the Way, but to know our Heavenly Father is the goal.

Nevertheless, I would add that it isn't us that's really worshiping Him, but we are learning to participate in the Son's relationship with Daddy God. Our Sonship is rooted in His Sonship.

In fact, Sonship has its root in the Eternal Realms, where we always were in Christ, and where we were chosen in Him from the foundation of the world. That's what I am beginning to see recently, the connection between 'Perichoresis' (mutual indwelling and fellowship) and 'Theosis' (Sonship).

Our Abba, Father is not only the Goal, but also the Source. He truly is the Beginning and the End. Remember? In the Beginning was the Word...

[Loveroftruth]

Floyd,

You brought something to memory.

I was pondering one day about something someone said about sonship..

and the Father said this to me "What is it to be a son if the son does not know the Father"?

He doesnt just want to make us "Mature Sons" He wants us to know Him as ABBA, He wants us to KNOW HIM and Love Him as He does with us....

We can do "everything" to be a son, but it is nothing if we do not KNOW Him.

Good stuff everyone!! :girlheart:

[AbbasChild]

You've got my Amen to that!  :thumbsup:

[laren]

Floyd,

He wants us to know Him as ABBA, He wants us to KNOW HIM and Love Him as He does with us....

We can do "everything" to be a son, but it is nothing if we do not KNOW Him.

Good stuff everyone!! :girlheart:

How do you get to KNOW him??  

especially if our earthly fathers are not good examples of unconditional love?  

[hopeful]

If you have a desire to know Him- you will have it fullfilled.

If you don't have that desire- ask for it.

:HeartThrob:

[laren]

If you have a desire to know Him- you will have it fullfilled.

If you don't have that desire- ask for it.

:HeartThrob:

So desire is the way to knowing our father?

I don't think my son had to desire to know me before knowing me. 


hmm

[laren]

To know love is to know the father.


I'm not even sure we have to label it as the "father"


We love Him because he first loved us.


How do we experience his love first? 

I'm thinking it is through experience, by experiencing love from another.   



just some thoughts. 

[Loveroftruth]

Whenever I worshiped I kept getting "led to the father" by His spirit... I didnt know why and I wondered why I was not led to Jesus. I started to see that The Father desired I come to Him.... That started a season in my life where I started to get many many personal revalations of "What He is like" and His love for me.

He used my children as examples, he showed me that the unconditional love I have for my children is the closest thing to His love, but doesent even come close - so with that example I could "FEEL" His love.

There where many more, maybe when I get time I can share them.... but layer by layer He has giving me revalation of it.... He is WONDERFUL!!

I also see that the "Stoping at Jesus" or making Jesus the goal stops many from meeting the Father face to face :sigh:

He is so wonderful!

One day God spoke through my son to me and said this "Mom, I know what makes God happy. Its that we love Him and He knows when we do" - He was 7 at the time. :HeartThrob:

That scripture that says "come as children" is very real to me, for that is how He sees me and He desires I cry out ABBA Father  :HeartThrob:

[Mississippi Heretic]

To know love is to know the father.


I'm not even sure we have to label it as the "father"


We love Him because he first loved us.


How do we experience his love first? 

I'm thinking it is through experience, by experiencing love from another.   



just some thoughts. 

personally, I don't think people should wait on another to experience that love.  while it sure does help, the love from an earthly father and mother, friend or lover,  is nothing if we don't love and accept ourself first.  to me, that means doing the hard work of looking inside myself.   was it Jung that emphasized working on the "shadow?"  In spiritual terms, i think this inner journey is one about seeking the Spirit.  Seeking the existing Spirit through praxis brings Grace, Grace gives the freedom to love ourselves, and that love is shared to others through the freedom we feel having it.  

just my  :2c:
bart

[Loveroftruth]

To know love is to know the father.


I'm not even sure we have to label it as the "father"


We love Him because he first loved us.


How do we experience his love first? 

I'm thinking it is through experience, by experiencing love from another.   



just some thoughts. 

All throughout the word... God keep wanting to have us identify Him as Father - He really seems to want to have us identfy Him as such....

If I viewed Him as an "entity" which is Love, I can not come to Him, I cant fall in love and build a relationship with "love". If I view him as this cosmic spiritual force, again, I cant sit on a spiritual forces lap or cry out abba father to it....

Why does did Jesus focus on "FATHER" and not "LOVE or SPIRIT"?

Thats just my experience and thoughts

[AbbasChild]

For those who struggle with this, here are some links to minitries that help people getting to know Abba Father (they havn't discoverd UR yet so far I know, but some of them a pretty close):

http://www.afathertoyou.com/index.html

http://shilohplace.org/

http://fatherheart.typepad.com/fatherheart_ministries_ho/

http://www.fathersheart.com/

www.fathersloveletter.com

Here are a few excellent books on this topic on pdf:

http://www.perichoresis.org/x2/file/ed3d2c21991e3bef5e069713af9fa6ca.pdf

http://www.perichoresis.org/x2/file/6974ce5ac660610b44d9b9fed0ff9548.pdf

http://www.perichoresis.org/x2/file/07e1cd7dca89a1678042477183b7ac3f.pdf


Let me end with a quote by the late Jack Winter:

"The goal and climax of New Testament revelation is the Father. If we stop with knowing Jesus, or experiencing the power of the Holy Spirit, then we will stop short of the revelation and the relationship that Jesus died to give us."

[AbbasChild]

Here's a good one:

Touching the Heart of Abba
by Judith S. MacNutt


Years ago, when our daughter Rachel was an infant, I had an experience that revealed to me the depths of God's heart. One morning, Rachel woke up crying for her mid-morning feeding. Gathering her into my arms from out of her cozy crib, I settled comfortably into my favorite wicker rocker. Soon Rachel was happily satisfying her hunger and I was humming a lullaby to her.                                                                         

As I gazed at her, I became aware of the overwhelming love I felt for her. Up to this moment nothing had ever stirred such a profound feeling of love within me. I began gently weeping for joy as she rested contentedly on my breast while she nursed. This beautiful, innocent child had done little to love me in return. She certainly hadn't accomplished great deeds or made her mark in the world....only in my heart. The unfathomable love that filled me was totally unearned; it was pure gift. 

Then God used this moment to reveal His awesome love for me. As I gazed upon her face, I heard a tender voice within me say, "You love Rachel very much, don't you?"   

I answered, "Oh yes, you know I do." To which God responded, "I love you more than you love Rachel." I had a hard time accepting that! "Oh no you don't; you couldn't!" You see, I knew how strong my love for Rachel was, but I had never really experienced the fullness of God's love for me.

God gently answered, "Oh yes, I do love you more!" At that moment, God's gift of love was poured into my heart, and I began to weep for joy. ("God's love is poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit" Romans 5:5).

I had never before experienced the Father's love at this depth. It was as though I had to have a child of my own to love beyond reason before I could feel and know the Father's love for me. A place in my heart was opened that day that still remains open — a turning point on my journey to knowing God in a more personal way.

As a child, I had always been told that God loved me. I knew those words; I believed them and repeated them to many others over the years. But I knew his love mostly in my head. That 18-inch journey from my head to my heart has been a long, arduous journey filled with countless disappointments, heartbreaks and failures. How I have longed to come home to the Father! Now, by his grace, the knowing is becoming a reality.

We need to honor our Father in Heaven and rediscover the message that God is our "Abba," as Jesus called Him. What does "Abba" mean? What was Jesus trying to convey to us when He instructed us in the Lord's prayer to pray to "Our Father (Abba) in Heaven" (Mt. 6:9)?

Scripture scholars believe that Jesus used the Aramaic word "Abba," which means "Daddy," when He taught his disciples the "Our Father."  I first sensed Jesus' meaning some 20 years ago when I lived in Jerusalem doing Christian mission work. 

One summer evening, I was sitting on my balcony overlooking the many apartment dwellings in my Jewish neighborhood. The sun was setting, calling me to be still, as the day was coming to a close. I saw the city buses pulling up to our street corner unloading weary Jewish workers at the end of their day. Small children were waiting on the sidewalks for their fathers to climb down the steps from the buses. Joyfully, upon recognizing his or her father, each child went running with arms uplifted, calling out "Abba, Abba!" Then the fathers would reach down to lift their children and embrace them with tenderness and love, so happy to be reunited after a long day. 

This moving scene, reenacted daily, almost always moved me to tears. Was this how my Abba in heaven wanted me to come to Him, in confidence and joy, with arms uplifted and a heart burning with news of the day? 

Jesus said, "Unless you come to me as a little child you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven." How do I become a child again? How dare I call God, the Creator of the universe, Abba? Jesus addressed God as Daddy, and he enables us by the Holy Spirit to do the same. Galatians 4:6 tells us, "God has sent forth into our hearts the Spirit of His Son, which cries out, 'Abba!'"

This degree of familiarity with God still comes as a shock to us, if we are honest about it. One noted theologian said, "in all the extensive literature of prayer — both liturgical and personal — in Judaism from ancient times up to the Middle Ages, there is not a single example of the use of Abba as a form of addressing God." When Jesus used the familiar term Abba, it must have sounded irreverent and offensively familiar. For Jesus (or for us), however, this term is no more lacking in respect than it is when I address my own father as "Dad." My familiarity does not exclude respect. Reverence still remains, but love and affection are the center of my relationship with my dad. "I no longer call you servants but friends," Jesus told His disciples (John 15:15).   

To address God as Abba, Father, is the boldest and simplest expression of our absolute trust in God's love for us. You may say, "What does it matter what I call God as long as I pray and try to live my life as a good Christian?" It must have mattered to Jesus because he spent so much of his time teaching about what God is really like (as in the story of the Prodigal Son) and how to be in a relationship with Him. 

What is your image of God? Jesus, the Son of God, shattered the image people held of God. This shattering is central to the theology of C.S. Lewis, who stated, "I don't want my idea [image] of God; I want God." 

Does my image of God need to be shattered? God challenges us again and again to know Him as He really is. Out of fear we cling to a fearsome, archaic pre-Christian image of God, although it brings us little comfort or strength, especially during times of suffering. Many of God's children sit Sunday after Sunday in pews, passively attending without fully understanding. They come to the feast hungry and go away hungry. Jesus points the way to satisfying our hunger for God in an intimate, childlike relationship with God as our Abba.

Webster's defines "father" as a male human parent; a patriarch, an honored official.  In contrast, it defines "daddy" as an expression "used familiarly, as by children."  "Father" refers to a role, while "daddy" means relationship and intimacy. Jesus calls us into an intimate relationship with His own Abba and has made us part of His own family. This Abba relationship is birthed in love and is meant to grow with time. This level of intimacy with God is deeply personal and completely satisfying — a knowing in the deepest sense that takes us over the mountains as well as through the valleys. For centuries, this relationship has been referred to as a journey of the heart. 

The tragedy is that so many Christians aren't even aware of the wonderfully close relationship God wants them to have with Him! So many are content with a somewhat distant, impersonal relationship: "I'm happy to just try and keep the commandments and get to heaven without all that emotionalism." As Christians, we all believe that God is our Father. Nevertheless, many believe this and still never experience closeness and affection in our relationship with God. The answer to bridging that distance between our heads and our hearts is truly the Holy Spirit — the one who enables us to cry out "Abba!" and really mean it. 

If you have experienced the power of the Spirit in your lives, you know that this is the answer; we cannot achieve this kind of family relationship with God on our own; it comes only as a gift. And that gift comes when we ask for it in prayer.

A woman who attended one of our conferences shared a powerful testimony. She sought to know God as Father. While she prayed, she sensed the Lord saying, "My child, don't be afraid... I will bless you far beyond your wildest dreams. Look up to me, your God. I love you. You are my own."

As she continued to pray, she had a vision: "The ceiling in the room seemed to disappear, and rays of light came down from heaven. Jesus appeared, followed by a host of angels who came straight from the throne of God and filled the entire room. Some of the angels had blue sashes, but all were bright, white and beautiful. Angels were touching each person in the room.

"One angel gave me a scroll on which was written, 'Beverly, I have called you by name; come.' I believe God is calling me to be his daughter. Maybe now I can truly believe that God the Father cares for me. I feel so much closer to God. He is much more real to me, much more reachable. Never before have I had such an experience. Now I am sure He will always be with me."

Do I know God in such a close, familiar way that I feel as comfortable as a child does in the presence of a truly loving father? Can I address God with a term as familiar as "Daddy," or does that still seem irreverent?

This intimate relationship with His Father is what Jesus promised us in His great prayer: "Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God" (John 17:3). This knowing is more than mere intellectual assent; it is an experiential knowledge. Jesus, praying to His Father, says, "You have loved them as you loved me" (John 17:23B). God loves you as He loves Jesus!

That's incredibly good news, almost too good to believe: God the Father loves you as He loves Jesus. Do you dare believe that?

[laren]

To know love is to know the father.


I'm not even sure we have to label it as the "father"


We love Him because he first loved us.


How do we experience his love first? 

I'm thinking it is through experience, by experiencing love from another.   



just some thoughts. 

All throughout the word... God keep wanting to have us identify Him as Father - He really seems to want to have us identfy Him as such....

If I viewed Him as an "entity" which is Love, I can not come to Him, I cant fall in love and build a relationship with "love". If I view him as this cosmic spiritual force, again, I cant sit on a spiritual forces lap or cry out abba father to it....

Why does did Jesus focus on "FATHER" and not "LOVE or SPIRIT"?

Thats just my experience and thoughts

interesting points Christine.  good food for thought.

i'm at work so dont' have access to esword, but isn't there a verse somewhere about Jesus saying, if you had known me, you would know the father.  In other words, knowing the love of Jesus, was to know the father??  

How do we experience love from the Father? I am wondering if it is through the receiving of unconditional love from others, just as those who received Jesus love would know the father??.  

[laren]

And that gift comes when we ask for it in prayer.

beautiful full post, but I don't know if i agree with this part.  Is knowing the love of the father, or knowing HIM, dependent upon me asking for it??

[Loveroftruth]

To know love is to know the father.


I'm not even sure we have to label it as the "father"


We love Him because he first loved us.


How do we experience his love first? 

I'm thinking it is through experience, by experiencing love from another.   



just some thoughts. 

All throughout the word... God keep wanting to have us identify Him as Father - He really seems to want to have us identfy Him as such....

If I viewed Him as an "entity" which is Love, I can not come to Him, I cant fall in love and build a relationship with "love". If I view him as this cosmic spiritual force, again, I cant sit on a spiritual forces lap or cry out abba father to it....

Why does did Jesus focus on "FATHER" and not "LOVE or SPIRIT"?

Thats just my experience and thoughts

interesting points Christine.  good food for thought.

i'm at work so dont' have access to esword, but isn't there a verse somewhere about Jesus saying, if you had known me, you would know the father.  In other words, knowing the love of Jesus, was to know the father??  

How do we experience love from the Father? I am wondering if it is through the receiving of unconditional love from others, just as those who received Jesus love would know the father??.  

If you have seen me you have seen the father...

Jesus showed Gods Glory - Everything God is Jesus ALLOWED to FLOW through Him - Jesus was NOT the Father - Jesus EXPRESSED the Father IMO.

Like when God uses me to minister to someone, suddenly I sense it is no longer me feeling or speaking to that person as "Christine" what I am speaking for that moment under the annointing is HIM - HIM coming and flowing through me... For that moment I could actually say "What you seen and heard in me was the Father" If you have SEEN ME, You have seen the Father... that is how I see it. For me it only happens here or there, but with Jesus it was a FULL FLOW - and EMPTY and YIELDING Flow... this we dont have but we have glimpses IMO

Wheres Cardinal? I know she knows what I am speaking about :laughing7:

Blessings

[whyiloveitaly.com]

A bunch of posts have been added, but I'll send this one off anyway first..

A psychologist recently told me of an experience he had where he had to tell a little boy that he (the boy) had terminal cancer. Once the boy understood his condition, his first comment was, "Oh, but how are we going to tell my mom and dad??"   -!!!!

It's as if Jesus was telling people, "look, if you seek and get to know the Father, you will know me and what I'm all about."  It would also seem that what Jesus spoke was actually the Father speaking (or at least at times). But the Bible doesn't indicate when it's the Father speaking and when it's the Son. Was the Son able to "say whatever He felt?" Or did He only say what the Father told Him to say?  (I personally am inclined to choose the second.....)


Many of us have had bad experiences with earthly fathers. Some have never had an earthly father. Some have had fathers that were/are aloof and cold.
So I wonder, too, where we can get personal glimpses and revelations of our real Father. One is through the Holy Ghost. Joy unspeakable is ours for the asking, although patience is often needed in order to get there!
Another is through the love coming from others who have experienced the love of God in them. My grandpa once told a person, "Jesus loves you!" And the person replied, "Yes, but do you love me?" Let's share our love we have, which is from God. Jesus had God's love, and shared it with the disciples. Then He said, 'do the same thing to each other."
Another element is, I believe, total submission, like a lamb. It follows and obeys, and does not fight. Following the Father, we cannot go wrong.

Love to all,
Brian

[Loveroftruth]

Feeling led to share this -

About 10 years ago I went to a conference where Jack Frost was speaking about the Fathers Love... I wanted that so bad! I bought the tapes and listened and it just wouldnt get inside me at all.........NOTHING for years :msealed:

Fast forward to that experience of worshiping God and wondering why I was led to the Father instead of Jesus like most others..... it confronted me and I had to ask why and deciede if it was OK to go to the Father..... it was after that where "IT HAPPENED"

The path opened and the revalations poured in..

So from my experience I see you can not get there by your head understanding it - it has to come by revalation I think and what opens the path? For me it was coming to the place of knowing it was ok to boldly enter the throne of grace....

There are many reasons people stay at the door (Jesus)
The chruch teaches us the two are the same
The church sings songs like: Its all about Jesus
We feel safe to hang with Jesus yet fear the father
We didnt know we can go to the father

I am sure there are more. In my heart I believe this is the issue of ALL issues. Jesus came to point us to the Father - He said its all about the Father... I go to your Father and my Father, your God and my God -- simple but has been made very complicated.

Blessings :girlheart:

[AbbasChild]

Feeling led to share this -

About 10 years ago I went to a conference where Jack Frost was speaking about the Fathers Love... I wanted that so bad! I bought the tapes and listened and it just wouldnt get inside me at all.........NOTHING for years :msealed:

Fast forward to that experience of worshiping God and wondering why I was led to the Father instead of Jesus like most others..... it confronted me and I had to ask why and deciede if it was OK to go to the Father..... it was after that where "IT HAPPENED"

The path opened and the revalations poured in..

So from my experience I see you can not get there by your head understanding it - it has to come by revalation I think and what opens the path? For me it was coming to the place of knowing it was ok to boldly enter the throne of grace....

There are many reasons people stay at the door (Jesus)
The chruch teaches us the two are the same
The church sings songs like: Its all about Jesus
We feel safe to hang with Jesus yet fear the father
We didnt know we can go to the father

I am sure there are more. In my heart I believe this is the issue of ALL issues. Jesus came to point us to the Father - He said its all about the Father... I go to your Father and my Father, your God and my God -- simple but has been made very complicated.

Blessings :girlheart:

My heart shouts Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesss!!!  :thumbsup:

[Loveroftruth]

 :bottlebump:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, I DO know what you are talking about LT.  :winkgrin:  And I agree it has to come by revelation of the Spirit. For me, the change came when He opened my eyes to the Son being Spirit that came in the man Jesus. He has to divide asunder flesh and Spirit, even to the flesh of Jesus, which is why Paul said we'll not know Him after (put as, here) the flesh anymore, but after (as) the Spirit. Every seed bears fruit after it's own kind, and the Father who is a Spirit, His own kind is Spirit.

Once I saw the Son that is Spirit, and realized He said thru Jesus the man of flesh who was made a Son (one with the Son) by the things that He suffered, that He only spoke what He heard the Father speak, my eyes were opened to the Father.

THINK; when you were born of the Spirit, it was the same as Jesus in the womb of the mother. The potential was there, you now knew you had a Father that was Spirit, but you had to grow and mature with the promise of being made one with the Spirit of Christ as a manifested son of God, thru the things that you suffered, (as Paul said the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the GLORY that is to be revealed IN US) down the road.

The Spirit spark of life began to quicken Itself in the womb of your soul, growing unto maturity, until one day the Son that is Spirit began to crown, the water of the Word that ONLY CONTAINS the life/seed of the Spirit, but is NOT that life/seed (just as the waters and the bag are for a season one with/encase the Son, but are NOT the Son).......... began to wash away the blood of being birthed thru the filthiness of the flesh, and pretty soon people began to see "you" (the Son that is Spirit), in a new light as "you" sat in the temple teaching things no man taught you. The people that sat in darkness (the carnal mind casts a shadow over the light of the Spirit IN US) saw a great light......

So; some months later, I had an experience in prayer with someone, when I heard the Father speak to the Son in me. I am used to hearing the Son, but this was the Father, and I was stunned beyond belief. I asked Him, how can this be? And He gave me the scripture where David said, "The Lord (God the Father) said to MY Lord (the Son)......."
It's funny; intellectually I always believed there were two, but I never really KNEW there were two, until that day.

This is how He could say to them, If David said Christ is his LORD, how could He be his Son? In other words, the flesh of Me is not capable of being both Lord and son of David, but the Spirit of Me is, and HE that I am now one with in every part of my being, HE IS LORD, or as Peter said on the day of Pentecost, God hath MADE HIM both Lord AND Christ, ie. both Lord and Son.  Peter, thru the power of the Spirit, GOT IT. And He said, "Before Abraham was, I am."

Who do MEN say that I am? And to Peter only, who answered correctly, saying, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God", He said, "Blessed art thou Peter, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father which is in heaven." The revelation was not that the flesh and blood standing there was the son of God. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, and what descended is the same as what ascended. Blessings to all........