My thought is, who's faith is it that will prevail? Is it my
faith or His faith? Whos faith will bring a soul to the mark?
Do I have FAITH enough to bring souls to that place of
Yes this is God. Or is it His faith that is worked through
me that makes any sense. I have seen my faith fail and
fall, and I believe, it is HIS FAITH that prevails. But how
much of FAITH is MINE ....how much is is his? Rev. 14:12
Eph.3:12, Gal.2:16,20 and Gal. 3:22. This has troubled
me for sometime. God Bless the Meek. Dave
Hiya,
Luke 17:6
6 He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,'
and it will obey you.
We can do things by faith, and greater things than Jesus had done, and all you need is faith even as small as a mustard seed.
John 14:12
12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Do you think that just because we are given a portion?
Where does that faith you call your own comes from?
Romans 12:3
3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.
He has given you more than enough faith to prevail.
Never think that it was your faith, but with what faith He has given you, walk by it.
Romans 1:17
17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
Don't be lazy.
Hebrews 6:9-12
9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation.
10God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.
11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure.
12We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.
Your faith cannot fail or fall, because it was not your faith to begin with.
So fix your eyes on Jesus.
Hebrews 12:1-2
1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
You of little faith, see that nothing is impossible for you!
Matthew 17:20
He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
:boyheart: :girlheart:
Faith only works through love, expectancy, and diligence. When there's a faith failure, it's usually taking your eyes off of the promises in thinking that it wasn't working this time, so something else became bigger to you than what God had promised. That kind of a bombing is usually helped along by not maintaining a high standard of thankfulness because Colossians 2:6-7 and Colossians 3:17 say that you become rooted and grounded through thanksgiving. That's what gives you the strength so that everything you do and everything you say is done and said in His Name.
There's more than one kind of faith in the Scriptures. There's the seed of faith that comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God in Romans 10:17 and then there's the special manifestation of Holy Spirit's faith in 1Corinthians 12, which bottomlines through further studies as the faith of Christ Jesus being expressed through His High Priestly ministry. Your faith will do everything that His will, but you just don't yet know enough about how to work it the way that He does, but 1Corinthians 1:30 calls Christ Jesus our wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. And James chapter 1 says that He'll give you His wisdom without being a fault finder. Mark chapter 4 and it's mirror passages in Luke 8 and elsewhere are paramount for developing your faith. You can come to the place that 2Thessalonians 1:3-4 is the testimony of Christ Jesus regarding your faith to all of the Churches in the world:
3We ought and indeed are obligated [as those in debt] to give thanks always to God for you, brethren, as is fitting, because your faith is growing exceedingly and the love of every one of you each toward the others is increasing and abounds.
4And this is a cause of our mentioning you with pride among the churches (assemblies) of God for your steadfastness (your unflinching endurance and patience) and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecutions and crushing distresses and afflictions under which you are holding up.
but you're not going to get there if the Word only has 3% of your time. But the faith that you're to live on is unquestionably your own, because you're the one doing the speaking that Mark 11:22-26 calls you to do, you're the one watching the garden of your heart so that no unforgiveness or coveteousness is getting in there and choking the Word. Galatians 5 calls the faith that's growing inside of you a fruit of your spirit. John 15 says that our Father is glorified when you bare much fruit, so it's not the Holy Spirit's fruit as some translations will give the wrong impression by capitalizing the "s" on spirit in Galatians 5.
The fruit of the spirit essentially are to your spirit what the 1Corinthians 12 gifts are to the Holy Spirit. Your spirit will do everything that His can and does. You just don't know enough yet about functioning in the Word on that level. He's not the hold back either. Just keep feeding on the Word until it casts out, or chokes out of your heart anything that's not love, thankfulness, generocity, a receiver of God's grace, and the spirit of the overcomer. Build your schedule around the Word rather than trying to fit the Word into your schedule.
Although faith will produce miraculous looking things, it's not a miracle. It's simply sowing and reaping and it has to diligently be practiced night and day rather than trying to wait until you're under the greatest pressure of your life only to find the Son of God denying you in the situation 'cause your house wasn't built on the rock and the angels don't come to your rescue. Faith doesn't have a shelf life. 20hrs yesterday in the Word isn't having spiritual reserves for the next week or two. Every day, every day. You don't wait until you need a muscle before you use it. And faith and keeping every care cast upon God and every thought in obedience to Christ Jesus as High Priest is a muscle that you have to work every single day without giving it a day off.
Let the Word be your life simulator of every situation that you'll ever face and work through everything that Christ Jesus would do and say in the Word and then live your life accordingly because you're His temple and are already seated with Him at God's right hand. You're already the most on His throne that you'll ever be, according to Ephesians 2. You are already seated with Him in heavenly places and Romans 5:17 says you reign right now through the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. Ephesians 5:1 says to be an imitation of God in every situation that you come across. It uses the marriage analogy in that chapter, but then in chapter 6 it transitions to how to treat your parents and your employees and employers.
Thanksgiving is your shield of faith with which you quench all of the firey accusations of the wicked one. Jesus has already shed His Blood in the behalf of every situation that I'll ever face and there's no reason for us to both shed our blood over this. I'm a partaker in the fellowship of His sufferings and not of my own. My own would be nothing but idolatry when He's already done it. So, I'm not getting back under the law regarding how I think that I'm going to get out of this. Every care is cast upon Him and every imagination is in obedience to Christ Jesus's High Priestly ministry through having my mind obedient to every single promise of the Scriptures. He meets my needs according to His riches in glory by Jesus's High Priestly ministry and not through the stock market that's already gone to Hell for it's 3 days and nights.
Stay in the Word until like Paul you're able to rejoice that you've been delivered from all of these afflictions and from the lion's mouth. When death comes knocking, be like Paul in Philippians 1 and say "I'm not sure if I'm ready to go yet..." and then when you've made up your mind rather than allowing the thief to take it from you, and your choice is for life to declare the wonderful works of God, then keep standing and don't be moved by what you see or by what you feel, but only by that which God has promised. It's not hard. That's just the rest of your time for the rest of eternity 'cause you've already made your garments white in the Blood of the Lamb. :Sparkletooth:
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 17, 2009, 06:34:18 AM
My thought is, who's faith is it that will prevail? Is it my
faith or His faith? Whos faith will bring a soul to the mark?
Do I have FAITH enough to bring souls to that place of
Yes this is God. Or is it His faith that is worked through
me that makes any sense. I have seen my faith fail and
fall, and I believe, it is HIS FAITH that prevails. But how
much of FAITH is MINE ....how much is is his? Rev. 14:12
Eph.3:12, Gal.2:16,20 and Gal. 3:22. This has troubled
me for sometime. God Bless the Meek. Dave
Hi Micah,
Maybe there was a time when our faith counted for something, I am not sure about that but after Christ died and rose again, I firmly believe it is no longer
our faith but Christ's faith that counts. If we have been crucified, buried, and resurrected in Christ, it is no longer us but Christ living in us that does the works that includes faith as well. The scriptures you gave pretty much says it all. Here is another one, (Eph. 2:8) Just my :2c:
CHB
Hiya,
All New Testament Scripture regarding faith was written after Jesus died and rose again.
If there is any Scripture which states that our faith counts for something in New Testament, then you must reconcile why and how.
We cannot lean on our own understanding and just disqualify that which has been revealed for ages just because it does not fit our paradigm of how we think things should work.
Romans 12:3 solves the dilemma, the faith that counts was given to us by God in the first place, but it is called our own even though it is God.
Therefore, we are responsible and accountable for the faith He has given us, even though that faith was not ours to begin with.
As Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, stated in his parables.
Matthew 24:14-30
14 "Again, it [the kingdom of Heaven] will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them.
15 To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey.
16 The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more.
17 So also, the one with the two talents gained two more.
18 But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
19 "After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them.
20The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'
21"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
22"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'
23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'
26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.
29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
To say that our faith counts for nothing now that Jesus has died and rose again, does not any semblance to biblical Christianity.
I agree with Martincisneros, when he says that faith only works through love.
Galatians 5:6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
If we see our faith fail, it is because we lack love; not because our faith counts for nothing.
Difficult lesson to learn but one that gives a harvest of righteousness to the one who learns from it.
:2c: :gangel:
When you are given something, is it not yours? Yet, it did not come from you did it? This is biblical faith, the faith that saves.
It comes from the Lord, and is given to us. It can rightly be described as both the Lord's faith, and our faith. There is a faith that does not last, one that we can try to conjure up on our own. The disciples tried this, and ultimately failed when they deserted Jesus at his most trying hour. The faith given by our Lord afterward though, kept them through until death. It is both His and those to whom he gives it.
Ron
Quote from: gregoryfl on January 18, 2009, 03:43:05 AM
When you are given something, is it not yours? Yet, it did not come from you did it? This is biblical faith, the faith that saves.
It comes from the Lord, and is given to us. It can rightly be described as both the Lord's faith, and our faith. There is a faith that does not last, one that we can try to conjure up on our own. The disciples tried this, and ultimately failed when they deserted Jesus at his most trying hour. The faith given by our Lord afterward though, kept them through until death. It is both His and those to whom he gives it.
Ron
Hiya Ron!
Amen!
:goodpost: :Urock:
Rom 3:26 toward the display of His righteousness in the current era, for Him to be just and a Justifier of the one who is out of the faith of Jesus."
Gal 2:16 having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified out of the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified."
Yes, God gives us faith to believe what He has said is true. But our salvation is based upon Christ's faith.
Hiya!
If you are in Tentmaker Forums posting in the Discussions on Universal Salvation, none of us who spoke on faith were talking about salvation that is in Christ.
Justification is not talking about salvation, TonyN, there will be many who will be saved who will raise to shame who are not justified.
Only those who live by faith will be justified in Christ for the life of sacrifice they had lived for the sake of Him who saved us.
A man who continues to sin, but still saved, is not justified in anything except by faith.
:Whistle: :wink3:
Quote from: YoungYuni on January 19, 2009, 06:37:39 AM
Hiya!
If you are in Tentmaker Forums posting in the Discussions on Universal Salvation, none of us who spoke on faith were talking about salvation that is in Christ.
Justification is not talking about salvation, TonyN, there will be many who will be saved who will raise to shame who are not justified.
Only those who live by faith will be justified in Christ for the life of sacrifice they had lived for the sake of Him who saved us.
A man who continues to sin, but still saved, is not justified in anything.
:Whistle: :wink3:
Christ is the author and perfector of our faith. Can he perfect our faith without our co-operation?
Is this a matter of being 'chosen'?
Hiya Molly!
Since I lean not my own understanding, I trust what God has revealed by the Holy Spirit and testified by Scripture.
Hebrews 12:1-2
1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Luke 9:62
62 Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."
Hebrews 6:9-11
9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation.
10God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.
11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure.
Christianity is too obsessed with their salvation, they forget that Scripture is talking not of Salvation but of the things that accompany salvation.
Things which only come if we continue to fix our eyes on Him and show the same diligence to the very end.
Those who do not, as Jesus said, are not fit for service in the kingdom of God.
:boyheart: :girlheart:
P.S. Oh, and I also recommend that people actually take the time and read Scripture from the Bible and not what someone posts, because some have some unique versions of the Scripture that do not find any witness among the others.
QuoteChristianity is too obsessed with their salvation, they forget that Scripture is talking not of Salvation but of the things that accompany salvation.
Things which only come if we continue to fix our eyes on Him and show the same diligence to the very end.
Those who do not, as Jesus said, are not fit for service in the kingdom of God.
I like that! :thumbsup:
Quote from: YoungYuni on January 19, 2009, 06:37:39 AM
Hiya!
If you are in Tentmaker Forums posting in the Discussions on Universal Salvation, none of us who spoke on faith were talking about salvation that is in Christ.
Justification is not talking about salvation, TonyN, there will be many who will be saved who will raise to shame who are not justified.
Only those who live by faith will be justified in Christ for the life of sacrifice they had lived for the sake of Him who saved us.
A man who continues to sin, but still saved, is not justified in anything except by faith.
:Whistle: :wink3:
Dear YoungYuni,
please read Romans 5:18,19:
Rom 5:18-19 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying." (19) For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."
All mankind will have their lives justified and will be constituted just. This is due to Christ just act and is due to Christ's faith in going to the cross for all mankind.
Hiya TonyN
Yes, I agree because eventually because when the wicked are raised along side the righteous, they will know the knowledge of the Truth and repent.
They will be found justified because they stop fighting and embracing the faith of Jesus Christ.
Here are some Scriptures that disagree with you TonyN, they disagree with your belief that we are automatically justified regardless of what we do.
Romans 3:5-8
5But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)
6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?
7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"
8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.
Romans 5:1-2, 15-16
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,
10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
So we need to reconcile why that is, and what was it that they were not saved from, but ultimately the rest of Scripture says they will eventually receive and why.
If we cannot reconcile these Scriptures without using the excuses, the excuses that Scripture is somehow flawed, or that certain versions are better than others, or that Scripture is not actually the inspired by the Holy Spirit, or that we do not care what Scripture says because it is no longer relevant; then what we say really does not matter.
A person came to this website forum asking some questions that has troubled him for some time.
It is better for this person who actually see the knowledge of the truth, than some opinions that cannot be supported by even the Scripture.
I am able to debate and discuss this topic of faith, but are you able without just looking for a fight?
Romans 12:3
3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.
James 2:17
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
We all have been given a measure of faith from God.
We must all put that faith in action.
His faith saves us and grants us mercy and grace, so that we have the time to repent.
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Without repentance, there is no justification only condemnation.
Repentance is placing our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ and living in accordance to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:3-4
3This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
:2c: :dontknow:
Dear YY,
Thanks for your thoughts. But I think it needs to be said that if one Scriptures contradicts another Scripture or *seemingly* contradicts it then something is either wrong with that translation or incorrect as to our understanding of that scripture.
Now then, the scriptures you quoted do not disagree with what I said nor disagree with Romans 5:18 and 19. The 5:18,19 passage is dealing not with WHEN one believes that they get what comes from Christ's obedience just as no one had to believe in Adam to get what comes out of his disobedience.
Romans 5:12, 18,19 is dealing what all mankind get, not because what each individual does but two to just two men, Adam and Christ. All mankind are neutral recipients of what they did.
The scriptures you quoted are what is prior to all mankind having their lives justified due to what Christ did and not due to what they do or what they believe. dig?
Tony
http://saviourofall.org
Hiya,
QuoteBut I think it needs to be said that if one Scriptures contradicts another Scripture or *seemingly* contradicts it then something is either wrong with that translation or incorrect as to our understanding of that scripture.
Thanks TonyN,
As I said, if we believe it is scripture is wrong, then it actually will always be our understanding that is flawed and what we say really doesn't matter.
QuoteThe scriptures you quoted are what is prior to all mankind having their lives justified due to what Christ did and not due to what they do or what they believe. dig?
I understand what you are trying to say.
What will be, is the hope of all humanity, and that realization is presently now.
Ironically, that is called faith.
The Scripture I posted also speak of what is now.
There is none who are justified by their works, especially if they continue to live according to their sinful nature.
If anyone continues to live by their sinful nature, they will be condemned not justified.
As Romans 3:5-8 says
5But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)
6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"
8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.
We are all justified because of what Jesus has done, because it requires his patience that we will all repent and trust in what He has done.
Until then, those if any neglect the Word of Christ, they will be condemned not justified.
Until then, if anyone continues to live by their sinful nature, they will be condemned not justified.
:2c: :Sparkletooth:
YY, me thinks you still believe that the only way for Romans 5:18,19 to come true is for people to repent and believe. Is this what you believe? :dontknow:
Hi YY and Tony,
Let me see if I can get to what you are disagreeing about.
I think you both agree that we are made righteous in God's sight by what Jesus Christ did. No one is "saved' by their own works, no matter how good they might seem to anyone in the world.
But there is a process of sanctification that occurs after we are made aware of the salvation we received through Christ. There has to be an inworking of Christ's life in ours. This is putting on Christ, becoming one with Him and, therefore the Father. Is this where the disagreement enters in? One is referring to our being born again in Christ, no matter whether we choose it or not, just as we were not given a choice to be born into these sinful natures through Christ. Once we are born into Christ, then comes this sanctification process, by which we become fit to actually enter into the Kingdom of God. Children are not fit for ruling and reigning, one must mature into sons. In my opinion, this is still God's work, though we do have a conscious awareness of what is occurring and that we are changing whereas the birth was not our choice.
So if this is the probelm, there probably isn't a problem. Or I could be completely not seeing the differences in viewpoints here. I just thought I'd take a stab at trying to diagnose. Forgive me if I enter in where angels fear to tread :gangel:
Peace
Hiya TonyN,
The question that actually is most asked, is condemned to what.
The reason most people, and I can see from yourself, cannot accept there is condemnation to those who do not believe is because they believe they are condemned to some never ending punitive punishment of hell fire torture.
Since that is what you were taught punishment was, you reject all scripture that says there is condemnation and punishment to those who do not believe.
Well, since I am not one who believes in never ending punitive punishment of hell fire torture, I would not be saying that those who are condemned are condemned to it.
What bugs me about a lot of conversations people have on this forum, is the fear that someone is coming in preaching some never ending punitive punishment of hell fire torture and so behave and treat each other with that assumption in mind.
If I do not believe it, I am not saying it.
That will answer your question of what I believe.
The only way anyone will discover they are already justified in Christ Jesus, is through repentance, until then they will be judged along side the world as sinners and die in their sin.
The grace of God has appeared and by His faith we are placed in a position of never ending patience for the purpose of repentance and the understanding of the knowledge of the truth.
The end product of His faith is that all mankind will be and is justified.
The way this is accomplished is through a willful submission of the will of mankind to the will of God for them.
This is called repentance.
This repentance will either come now while they live, or later when they are raised.
For those who repent now while they live, they will reign with Him in service to the kingdom of God.
For those who reject now while they live, they will be raised last and realize they missed out on so much for such a simple understanding that they refused to believe.
Some will have their reward, and some will suffer loss.
Loss is the condemnation and punishment they have and will receive.
:icon_king: :icon_queen:
Hiya!
QuoteThere has to be an inworking of Christ's life in ours. This is putting on Christ, becoming one with Him and, therefore the Father. Is this where the disagreement enters in?
It appears so.
From what scripture states, I observe where we place our trust is an
integral part of God's plan for mankind.
Those who trust in the Lord, will not see death.
Those who do not trust in the Lord, will experience death.
That does not prevent Him from raising us from the dead, should we experience death.
That does not prevent Him from correcting us when we are raised from the dead, should we had not trusted in Him.
Just because God is in control, does not shirk off our responsibility as Children of God to mature in our behaviors and thinking.
A King will keep his kingdom in check because he is always in control of his kingdom (especially if it is God who is King).
That does not mean the citizens of that Kingdom are free to live in anarchy to the kingdom or defiance to the King.
The citizens of a kingdom who live in anarchy and defiance, will not have a pleasant time as they continue to live in anarchy and defiance, the King will make sure of it, because He is the one in control.
The same can be said of any children of the King.
Hebrews 11:6
16 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
Romans 3:27,28,31
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.
28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
:icon_king: :icon_queen:
I agree with what you stated there YY. Thanks for clarifying.
Quote from: Tony N on January 19, 2009, 04:57:40 PM
Dear YoungYuni,
please read Romans 5:18,19:
Rom 5:18-19 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying." (19) For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."
All mankind will have their lives justified and will be constituted just. This is due to Christ just act and is due to Christ's faith in going to the cross for all mankind.
Absolutely. :thumbsup:
Hiya, CHB and TonyN,
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
:bgdance:
QuoteP.S. Oh, and I also recommend that people actually take the time and read Scripture from the Bible and not what someone posts, because some have some unique versions of the Scripture that do not find any witness among the others.
Good post YY ,
Are you knockin' the KJV ?
Being me above there in your distain ?
just asking to be sure , not stirring up in love or strife /divisions just making it plain :thumbsup:
Thanks :HeartThrob:
Hiya Rosered,
I am not knocking the KJV.
It is common for cults and others who want to make up their own versions of Christianity to create their own 'version' of Scripture that changes the texts they cannot reconcile in their belief system.
So rather change their belief to actually fit what is the knowledge of the Truth, that change Scripture to accommodate their belief.
As the saying goes, every cult needs its own version of the Bible.
I suggest staying away from those versions that are not commonly found.
Someone in this thread, is using such a version.
:2c: :mblush:
Quote from: YoungYuni on January 20, 2009, 02:47:53 AM
Hiya Rosered,
I am not knocking the KJV.
It is common for cults and others who want to make up their own versions of Christianity to create their own 'version' of Scripture that changes the texts they cannot reconcile in their belief system.
So rather change their belief to actually fit what is the knowledge of the Truth, that change Scripture to accommodate their belief.
As the saying goes, every cult needs its own version of the Bible.
I suggest staying away from those versions that are not commonly found.
Someone in this thread, is using such a version.
:2c: :mblush:
Thank you so much , I understand now .
got cha ! :winkgrin:
cultish like kurdesh eh? :mshock:
back to the faith thread ...
That the
trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire,
might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen,
ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls. receiving the end of our faith our souls are saved , that is awesome news to me
:HeartThrob:
Well, I don't know about this. Something doesn't "sit right"
with me.He makes those poor in spirit,Rich in faith.
What can I say to you, if you lack the faith to beleive that at
death,Jesus can raise up any man..and present him spotless
and unblemished ..through the work of Him and His Father.
What, he then can not give him the free gift of immortality,
due to a lack of 'works"?.
Jesus warned John 9;4 Night is coming when no man can
work...what will people do then that beleive salvation
is 'works' based?. He stated that blind man,and his
parents, were not guilty of any sin..that brought about his
blindness ...that it had happened so that the 'WORK OF GOD"
might be displayed in his life. If God allows spiritual blindness
to people..throughout their entire lives on this earth..and then
raises them up to SEE..where is their works? Is not it rather
God's work alone.
Hebrews 10;26,27.. insulted the spirit of GRACE..then there is
no longer any sacrifice for sin. Have you ever thought of it
this way? That if you receive your eternal life as an undeserved
gift..and then revert to a 'works..through law mentality"..that
you have insulted the SPIRIT of GRACE and if you should fail to
be obediant at all times..then you no longer have a sacrifice
for sins left. Yes,I am always 'leery" of the works based
salvation due to the prostitutes and harlots entering into
the Kingdom of God ahead of the Pharisee's.
Paul,indeed,was called and chosen. But He had a problem,a
thorn in his side. He beat his body in submission to obey,but
found that...'the good I want to do,I do NOT, that which I
don't want to do,I do" God said 'MY GRACE IS SUFFICEINT FOR
YOU" Who is any to say God's GRACE is not sufficient for
ANYBODY? I wouldn't want to presume on that matter.
Man's will can change from day to day..God's will is steady
it is salvation for all mankind.
If the called and chosen are unable to walk in total obediance
to Christ without stumbling..how would you expect a blind
man to walk? The prince of this world has blinded many
Leviticus 19;14 DO NOT CURSE THE DEAF OR PUT A
STUMBLING BLOCK IN FRONT OF THE BLIND.
CHRIST FUFILLED THE LAW..loving your brother as yourself
would go a long way to helping us fulfill it.
Sheila
Hiya Sheila, ,
Yes, I have thought of it.
Have you ever thought I was not talking about salvation?
Hebrews 6:9
9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation.
2 Peter 3:14-16
14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.
15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
:hithere: :this:
Quote from: YoungYuni on January 19, 2009, 08:10:11 PM
Hiya TonyN,
The question that actually is most asked, is condemned to what.
The reason most people, and I can see from yourself, cannot accept there is condemnation to those who do not believe is because they believe they are condemned to some never ending punitive punishment of hell fire torture.
Since that is what you were taught punishment was, you reject all scripture that says there is condemnation and punishment to those who do not believe.
Well, since I am not one who believes in never ending punitive punishment of hell fire torture, I would not be saying that those who are condemned are condemned to it.
What bugs me about a lot of conversations people have on this forum, is the fear that someone is coming in preaching some never ending punitive punishment of hell fire torture and so behave and treat each other with that assumption in mind.
If I do not believe it, I am not saying it.
That will answer your question of what I believe.
The only way anyone will discover they are already justified in Christ Jesus, is through repentance, until then they will be judged along side the world as sinners and die in their sin.
The grace of God has appeared and by His faith we are placed in a position of never ending patience for the purpose of repentance and the understanding of the knowledge of the truth.
The end product of His faith is that all mankind will be and is justified.
The way this is accomplished is through a willful submission of the will of mankind to the will of God for them.
This is called repentance.
This repentance will either come now while they live, or later when they are raised.
For those who repent now while they live, they will reign with Him in service to the kingdom of God.
For those who reject now while they live, they will be raised last and realize they missed out on so much for such a simple understanding that they refused to believe.
Some will have their reward, and some will suffer loss.
Loss is the condemnation and punishment they have and will receive.
:icon_king: :icon_queen:
Dear YY,
I don't reject condemnation. I believe it occurrs and will yet occur with the condemnation of the world. But Romans 5:12, 18, 19 is not about "if you repent then you will become righteous." Please re-read Romans 5:12,18,19. It is not about what we do or don't do. It is about what Adam and Christ did and what all mankind get and will get due to what those two men did.
All mankind don't get made righteous due to repenting. Do you see that?
Fair is fair. If all mankind can get condemned due to what Adam did then all mankind can be made righteous due to what Christ did.
I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this.
Hiya TonyN,
Quote from: TonyNDear YY,
I don't reject condemnation. I believe it occurrs and will yet occur with the condemnation of the world. But Romans 5:12, 18, 19 is not about "if you repent then you will become righteous." Please re-read Romans 5:12,18,19. It is not about what we do or don't do. It is about what Adam and Christ did and what all mankind get and will get due to what those two men did.
All mankind don't get made righteous due to repenting. Do you see that?
Fair is fair. If all mankind can get condemned due to what Adam did then all mankind can be made righteous due to what Christ did.
I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this.
Fair is fair, but it seems you do not know what fair is.
I don't have time at this moment to address why we don't see eye to eye, but I tell that it has nothing to do with the reasons you gave.
Romans 5:16
Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
Are you saying that babies who die after having a single breathe are condemned because of what Adam did?
Original Sin doctrine is disgustingly unbiblical and unscriptural.
It is a theory of corrupt Christianity that was invented because people wanted to have someone to 'save' even if they had not done anything deserving of judgment.
Ezekiel 18:19-23
19 "Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live.
23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
Because of Jesus we have the possibility of justification after the soul that sins, dies.
Do you know why?
1 Peter 1:3-5
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you,
5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time
Here, the faith is talking about the faith of Jesus Christ.
Jesus died for the sins of mankind in propitiation, but
What is the hope for humanity who dies in their sins?
Acts 24:15
I have a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous
and the wicked. The resurrection of the dead, not just for the righteous but also the wicked.
Everyone will repent, everyone will confess with their mouths and believe in their heart that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father.
Isaiah 45:23, 24
23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone
are righteousness and strength.' "
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame.
Philippians 2:9-11
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Fair is fair, but you do not seem to demonstrate any understanding of what fairness is.
Romans 9:30-31
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.
32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone."
There are those who are righteous and have obtained it.
Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
Jesus did not come for the righteous, he came for sinners to repent.
2 Peter 3:8-10
8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Only you, TonyN, cannot see that repentance is the obligation, and requirement of all mankind.
Because of the faith of Jesus Christ, He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.
The result of repentance, is righteousness.
A righteousness that was granted not on the basis of the law, a righteousness that was not granted by the basis of works, but a righteousness that is granted by the basis of faith in God.
Matthew 21:32
32 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
The way of righteousness, is Jesus Christ.
The way of righteousness requires repentance.
Quote from: TonyNI believe it occurrs and will yet occur with the condemnation of the world.
1 Corinthians 11:32
32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
John 16:7-11
7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:
9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me;
10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
Some will be condemned along with the world.
It is this fact that seems to elude you.
:bgdance:
YY
I am convinced that all the exhortations to incite the
body of beleivers to grow in love and fine works,is just that
And not to be used as a level to condemn those without faith.
Bless those that curse you
Now,when Jesus came the first time..to those under law
and the wrath of God..He showed forth the forgiveness of sin.
Instead of wrath there was forgiveness and grace to those
who could accept it as the WORD of GOD. They were of 'little
faith" this faith that accepted Jesus Christ and GRACE. They
were still of the mindset that 'maybe only a few could be
saved" Jesus told them that 'all things are possible with God,
and that what is impossible with man is possible with God."
Jesus bore all their sins on the cross,too. He didn't die just
for the beleivers..
Now this sanctification you speak of.in reference to the
saints.IT IS TO BUILD UP IN LOVE TO SHOW FORTH THE LOVE
AND MERCY OF GOD TO OTHERS.
And as far as the shame those resurrected will endure, were
not you ashamed also of your sins when you came to accept the
grace of God? And did He not clothe you with His Garment?And
cover your shame,with forgiveness and love;and still continue
to do it? Romans 6;21
He humbles the proud and covers the shame.of our
nakedness. What is the shame of our nakedness,but this...
dwelling in a sin corruptible vessel .
Romans 2;1 YOU, therefore, have no excuse, YOU who pass
judgement on someone else, for at whatever point YOU judge
the other, you are condemning yourself, because YOU who pass
judgement,do the same things.
Of what value is it of us to serve God in this world,if those of
mankind who do not receive the same eternal life as a free gift
of undeserved kindness?Romans 3 Much in every way!
First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of
God.What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith
nullify God's faithfullness? Not at all, Let God be true, and
every man a liar,as it is written;
SO YOU MAY BE PROVED RIGHT WHEN YOU SPEAK
AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU JUDGE
What can we conclude then ?[Romans 3;9] Are we any better?
NOT AT ALL! We have already made the charge that jews and
gentiles alke,are all under sin.
Now, we know that whatever the law says,it says to those
under law,so that EVERY MOUTH MAY BE SILENCED......
Sheila
Hiya,
Thanks Sheila for your words.
It is unfortunate that most of your rebuke is misplaced.
What I mean by this is, your objections have no relevance to object to anything I had presented.
Do you know why we bless those who curse us?
1 Peter 3:16
16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
So that they will be ashamed.
Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
1 Corinthians 3:14,15
14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
As I said previously, and I know that you did not read it.
It was DIRECTLY addressed to you:
Quote from: YoungYuniHave you ever thought I was not talking about salvation?
Hebrews 6:9
9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation.
I am not talking about salvation, but the things that accompany salvation.
It demonstrates you are the confused one in this discussion, not I.
When you cannot see your friend from your enemies, then there is something definitely wrong.
Your words are reserved not for myself, who knows all mankind is saved through the faith of Jesus Christ who had died for all mankind and raised from the dead.
Your words are reserved for that corrupt Christianity which continues to be preached in place of the truth.
As I said previously in this discussion.
Christianity is too obsessed with their salvation, they forget that Scripture is talking not of Salvation but of the things that accompany salvation.
Salvation is the elementary doctrine, the things that accompany salvation is maturity.
Hebrews 6:1,9
Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity.
9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation.
:shakepoint: :drama:
YY
Yes, but we all escape through the flames. The refining
process of the beleivers is the same here on earth. Whether
we go through it here,or later..it is the same.
....thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven
The clarifying of wrong mindsets,and attitudes,and erronous
doctrines are 'burned up" with the fiery rebuke of HIS WORD
He is our sure reward...His mindset must be our own...
The suffering of loss..is this..not having the fullness
of Christ,that we may have had. He is the reward.. In whatever
few things we may have been 'faithful" in..there is a reward.
In things we may have been in error in,that are not part of the
divine nature...those works are 'burned up' and shown for the
dross they are. Whether,pride,malice,unbeleif etc.
The sanctification process is the same..on earth as it is in
heaven. We all go through fiery trials and are refined
A cold cup of water offered to one of the little ones will
not lose it's reward.The cup of salvation refreshes those
undergoing the refining process.
I know of no-one that is in the perfect beauty of the
incorruptible,down here,yet,besides Jesus.I know of many like
that in heaven.
1Thessolinians 4;15 According to the Lord's own word,we tell
you,that we who are still alive,who are left til the coming of the
Lord,will certainly NOT PRECEDE THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN
ASLEEP.
As far as I am concerned..even though I am being sanctified
by Him at present..I will never precede those who have fallen
asleep, and if anyone think he will..he is in error.
And when he is resurrected,or changed..that mindset will
be burned up,and shown for the dross that it is.
Sheila
Quote from: CHB on January 17, 2009, 07:05:56 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 17, 2009, 06:34:18 AM
My thought is, who's faith is it that will prevail? Is it my
faith or His faith? Whos faith will bring a soul to the mark?
Do I have FAITH enough to bring souls to that place of
Yes this is God. Or is it His faith that is worked through
me that makes any sense. I have seen my faith fail and
fall, and I believe, it is HIS FAITH that prevails. But how
much of FAITH is MINE ....how much is is his? Rev. 14:12
Eph.3:12, Gal.2:16,20 and Gal. 3:22. This has troubled
me for sometime. God Bless the Meek. Dave
If we have been crucified, buried, and resurrected in Christ, it is no longer us but Christ living in us that does the works that includes faith as well Just my :2c:
CHB
And a
LARGE :2c: it was! Well said CHB... :thumbsup:
CHRIST is due
ALL Glory... That which occurs in our experience that is GOOD, is
HIM working
IN US...
This "GOOD" includes
HIS FAITH, which OVERCAME the World... and when it is within US, we do the same -- overcome the world -- via HIS FAITH.
In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...
:icon_flower: :icon_flower:
willieH :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
Hiya,
Sheila, you are entitled to your opinion.
:icon_king: :icon_queen:
Quote from: willieH on January 20, 2009, 09:23:36 PM
Quote from: CHB on January 17, 2009, 07:05:56 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 17, 2009, 06:34:18 AM
My thought is, who's faith is it that will prevail? Is it my
faith or His faith? Whos faith will bring a soul to the mark?
Do I have FAITH enough to bring souls to that place of
Yes this is God. Or is it His faith that is worked through
me that makes any sense. I have seen my faith fail and
fall, and I believe, it is HIS FAITH that prevails. But how
much of FAITH is MINE ....how much is is his? Rev. 14:12
Eph.3:12, Gal.2:16,20 and Gal. 3:22. This has troubled
me for sometime. God Bless the Meek. Dave
If we have been crucified, buried, and resurrected in Christ, it is no longer us but Christ living in us that does the works that includes faith as well Just my :2c:
CHB
And a LARGE :2c: it was! Well said CHB... :thumbsup:
CHRIST is due ALL Glory... That which occurs in our experience that is GOOD, is HIM working IN US...
This "GOOD" includes HIS FAITH, which OVERCAME the World... and when it is within US, we do the same -- overcome the world -- via HIS FAITH.
In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...
:icon_flower: :icon_flower: willieH :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
well said ,,Willie and CHB
HIS FAITH '' conviction of the truth of anything, a fixed or firm belief '
:HeartThrob:
Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwells, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou hold fast my name, and
has not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells.
:HeartThrob:
Interesting passage to quote Rose . . .where satan dwells?? That kind of jumps up there a bit don't ya think? he mentions this twice in that one verse.
Quote from: Nathan on January 20, 2009, 11:22:25 PM
Interesting passage to quote Rose . . .where satan dwells?? That kind of jumps up there a bit don't ya think? he mentions this twice in that one verse.
Yes, Pergamos was literally the seat of satan at that time, the capitol of the Babylonian religion at that time which carries forth to this day.
Quote from: Nathan on January 20, 2009, 11:22:25 PM
Interesting passage to quote Rose . . .where satan dwells?? That kind of jumps up there a bit don't ya think? he mentions this twice in that one verse.
Yes Nate this does thanks Molly
satan seat is and where satan dwells how can one/ Antipas meaning '' like his father'' be slain between the two places though ?
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: rosered on January 21, 2009, 12:00:14 AM
Quote from: Nathan on January 20, 2009, 11:22:25 PM
Interesting passage to quote Rose . . .where satan dwells?? That kind of jumps up there a bit don't ya think? he mentions this twice in that one verse.
Yes Nate this does thanks Molly
satan seat is and where satan dwells how can one/ Antipas meaning " like his father" be slain between the two places though ?
:HeartThrob:
I don't see this saying that satan dwells with Antipas . .I see it saying that satan dwells "among you".
If you ignore the literal completely, you miss all of prophesy--which is, if truth be told, quite remarkable in its accuracy.
Hiya,
It could have double meaning.
Both prophetic and literal.
I believe that Satan actually has power within us, and that is where he seats himself.
:girlheart: :boyheart:
Quote from: YoungYuni on January 21, 2009, 01:29:54 AM
Hiya,
It could have double meaning.
Both prophetic and literal.
I believe that Satan actually has power within us, and that is where he seats himself.
:girlheart: :boyheart:
He had no part in Jesus. So why would he have a part in us?
QuoteHe had no part in Jesus. So why would he have a part in us?
Hiya Molly,
I think you may want to rethink that.
Satan is found within the flesh of mankind.
Did Jesus not take upon Himself the flesh of mankind?
Was not Jesus tempted like any other man?
The difference between Jesus and every other man, was not that Satan was not found within Him, but that that spirit had no power over him since Jesus did not submit to the sinful nature in order that Satan be manifest within Him.
Satan is a spirit, it is not a being.
Satan is found at any time a man has his mind on the things of man and not on the things of God.
How did Jesus deal with Satan?
He kept His mind always on the things of God and lived in submission to the Father.
Satan had no place in Jesus, but that does not mean Satan tried to exert himself.
We all know Jesus was tempted, and temptation is only temptation if there was a desire there in the first place to tempt.
Jesus had a desire that was contrary to the will of the Father, but He gave up His desire and said to the Father:
Luke 22:42
42 "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."
I understand it is difficult to understand that when Jesus, being the very nature God, lowered himself and took upon Himself the image of mankind.
He did become a man, with the same mortality, weakness, and desire to the sin nature, as every other man.
:icon_king: :icon_queen:
Hi YY
Jesus himself said that Satan has no part in me.
His flesh was without sin.
Which is how his flesh becomes a new and living way for us into the most holy place.
Do I think he was tempted? Being tempted and falling to temptation are two different things.
Practically speaking, satan tries to compromise us and then uses it as blackmail to control us for the rest of our lives. How many have sold their souls for that reason? Trapped, enslaved to do the will of satan. How many more do the will of satan for the payoff of riches and power?
Satan offered everything he had to Jesus. He tried to trick Jesus repeatedly into falling. He failed.
Hiya Molly,
QuoteJesus himself said that Satan has no part in me.
If He did say that, then it does not disagree with what I shared.
Satan had no part in Jesus, why?
Because Jesus gave Him no place to be part of Him.
Ephesians 4:27
27Do not give the devil a foothold or opportunity.
James 4:7
7Submit therefore to God resist the devil and he will flee from you.
It is simple why He was without sin, when we recognize that He did not give the devil a foothold or opportunity and he submitted Himself to God and resisted the devil in His life.
Things He said that we can do greater.
John 14:12
12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
It seems revolutionary, but it is all there in Scripture.
He suffered like a man, even died like a man, because when God manifest Himself in the flesh, he was fully man.
:bgdance:
Thanks to all for your thoughts. It was on "faith." I Thank who ever gave me the
verse Rev. 2:13. I am tending to fall in with CHB and TonyN. This, the Savior has
showed me, there is absolutly "NOTHING I" can do. Yes i have fatih but I have
been shown that it is my faith in HIS FAITH that is going to do what ever it is
that is going to be done.
And that is why i consider to be the GOOD NEWS...
"yet NOT I, but CHRIST(anointed) lives in me:" Gal.2:20
(I) cant help Him!
Quote from: Nathan on January 21, 2009, 01:03:08 AM
Quote from: rosered on January 21, 2009, 12:00:14 AM
Quote from: Nathan on January 20, 2009, 11:22:25 PM
Interesting passage to quote Rose . . .where satan dwells?? That kind of jumps up there a bit don't ya think? he mentions this twice in that one verse.
Yes Nate this does thanks Molly
satan seat is and where satan dwells how can one/ Antipas meaning " like his father" be slain between the two places though ?
:HeartThrob:
I don't see this saying that satan dwells with Antipas . .I see it saying that satan dwells "among you".
Hi Nate , :thumbsup:
so do I lol .. i did not think Antipas was where satan dwells
let me reword this how can one such as antipas be slain
among the seat of satan and satan dwells among you
I see this they are the synagogues [of Satan] adversity who proclaim they are Jews
These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. Jhn 16:2
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. Jhn 16:3
And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. these
profess to know God but in their deeds deny Him ,, murderers :msealed:
just clarifying bro :thumbsup:
been off internet all this afternoon :HeartThrob:
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 22, 2009, 12:26:50 AM
Thanks to all for your thoughts. It was on "faith." I Thank who ever gave me the
verse Rev. 2:13. I am tending to fall in with CHB and TonyN. This, the Savior has
showed me, there is absolutly "NOTHING I" can do. Yes i have fatih but I have
been shown that it is my faith in HIS FAITH that is going to do what ever it is
that is going to be done.
And that is why i consider to be the GOOD NEWS...
"yet NOT I, but CHRIST(anointed) lives in me:" Gal.2:20
(I) cant help Him!
God bless you bro we go from faith to faith :thumbsup:
and He will Not deny Himself .. a wonderful and faithful creator :HeartThrob:
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:
for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom 1:17 For therein
is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written,
The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
[It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:
2Ti 2:13
If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2Ti 2:14 Of these things put [them] in remembrance, charging [them] before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, [but] to the subverting of the hearers.
God is Awesome! :icon_flower:
You got that right, Rose,
God is awesome!!
Amen Sis God is awesome ! Love the Lord and His ways :HeartThrob:
and Micah 7;9 you said this
This, the Savior has
showed me, there is absolutly "NOTHING I" can do. Yes i have fatih but I have
been shown that it is my faith in HIS FAITH that is going to do what ever it is
that is going to be done.
And that is why i consider to be the GOOD NEWS...
"yet NOT I, but CHRIST(anointed) lives in me:" Gal.2:20
(I) cant help Him!
Well you can believe Him at His WORD , that is a Big help !! your faith is precious in the Lord and His Power to perform good works
when we are weak and powerless , it seems that is when Jesus helps us most
your trust will build in the Power of God and His Word and the conscience of your mind will confirm it , how faithful He Truely is , it is His Spirit that rest in us and moves in us when needed as Gods will is being done
keeping the faith :thumbsup:
in the Love of God :HeartThrob: rose