Tentmaker Forum

Here's my  :2c:

God's plan of salvation has been the same from Genesis to Revelation, Grace through faith by sovereign election.( John 6:44; Eph 1:3-5 ; 2:8-9; 2 Thess 2:13-14)  The bible is clear on  two sets of people. Children of God and Children of wrath.(Eph 2:3). Therefore, how do you become a Child of God biblically? Repent and believe in Jesus alone to have eternal life.( John 6:39;47; Acts 11:18)

Romans 10:9-10

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

John 1:12-13

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 17, 2009, 05:51:36 AM
Look forward to your responses. God bless

Guess you don't know the answer eh?  :laughing7:

Let's see your "observational viewpoint" as to this question...  :dontknow:

Willie,

The thread is to see if you know and support it by scripture. thanks

Matthew 10:22
... he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; ...

John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.



12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

--John 1

Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 17, 2009, 08:17:52 AM
Willie,

The thread is to see if you know and support it by scripture. thanks

Well?   :dontknow:

I am ASKING YOU!  You must not KNOW yourself, or you wouldnt be seeking input as to the answer to this question!  :dontknow:

Do you KNOW the answer and are YOU able to SUPPORT your view by SCRIPTURE?  Cough it up dude!

To use an ORIGINAL comment of mine:  METHINKS you just don't have a view of your own.

There seems to be a number of ways in which people are saved...

But they all involve Jesus.

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Molly,

Not sure what you mean by a number of ways. I have posted what I believe to be bliblical salvation above, please review. Jesus is the way the truth and the life : no one comes to the Father but through Me. ( John 14:6)

Romans 10:9-10 :Sparkletooth:

It's how everyone, including all of your lost relatives and loves will be subjected and subdued before Christ Jesus in the fullness of times of this age or future ages. :HeartThrob:

Hey Martin,

I wish that were true. I have lost a lot of family members and friends who have died in their sins. I know your going to try to show me how Phil 2:10-11 proves this by taking it out of context, but I know what Phil 2:10-11 really means. thanks

I don't tolerate anything out of context, and neither do any of the UR authors of the 18th century.  This is a fabulous work from the 18th century, though I've not had a chance to read the whole thing to see if all of it is there.  I'm thinking it probably is since google was getting these from libraries.  This book is by Elhanan Winchester and he'd of been as appauled by either you or I at taking ANYTHING out of context:

Dialogues on the Universal Restoration (http://books.google.com/books?id=ol2R_856G0IC&dq=Elhanan+Winchester&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=fQOTcI2ogU&sig=mJA5m5Id2l8zWKtyzTe8AUAKerg&hl=en&ei=yG-JSr4uiNg1h7Oh-w4&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

Besides him, try to find some of the scholarly works of Charles Chauncy from the 18th century.  I personally don't enjoy very many of the later authors on the Universal Restoration.  18th century seems to have been the classical age on UR writings.  Yeah, I'm aware of Andrew Jukes in the 19th century and he's a rarity as well as George MacDonald, but the UR authors that are worth reading after the 1700s are few and far between.  One of the reasons being that when the message of the Universal Restoration became a denomination rather than one out of a whole lot of truths to be embraced with the whole counsel of God, then it became the serpent on the pole that legitimately had to be torn down centuries later in the Bible, which is very strong for the Bible to say, that it ever became necessary to tear down a truth at God's leading BECAUSE it had been held to at the exclusion of all other truth of God's Written Word and therefore God had to start over with the people, line upon line, precept upon precept, even if it meant enduring a few generations that weren't getting their healing from the serpent on the pole until Isaiah the prophet came along describing the real serpent on the pole.

John Wesley's another interesting Universalist from the 18th century that was really good friends with the Universalist authors Sir. George Stonehouse and Elhanan Winchester -- and particularly his friendship with Elhanan Winchester that was sorta one of those "David and Jonathan" relationships in the Bible -- it's hard to see such intimacy of friendship UNLESS they were on the same page about the Universal Restoration.  Here's some quotes from Wesley that I got a few years ago when a biographer of Winchester's gave remarkable proof of Wesley's Universalism.  Of course, after reading some pretty convincing proof, I went after Wesley's writings for a personal look.  Here's just a taste of what I found:

John Wesley
(Founder of the Methodist Denomination)
John Wesley's commentary was obviously a growth over many years, that he never got to go back and edit for consistency, so that although he's "disappointing" on Romans 5:18, Philippians 3:21, and Colossians 1:20, yet there are suggestions of his changing views, or his growing boldness regarding his views, over the years.

Extracts from John Wesley's Explanatory Notes:

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

That in the dispensation of the fullness of the times — In this last administration of God's fullest grace, which took place when the time appointed was fully come.

He might gather together into one in Christ — Might recapitulate, re-unite, and place in order again under Christ, their common Head.

All things which are in heaven, and on earth — All angels and men, whether living or dead, in the Lord.


2Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

And all these new things are from God, considered under this very notion, as reconciling us - The world, 2Corinthians 5:19, to himself.

2Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Namely — The sum of which is, God - The whole Godhead, but more eminently God the Father.

Was in Christ, reconciling the world — Which was before at enmity with God.

To himself — So taking away that enmity, which could no otherwise be removed than by the blood of the Son of God.


Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

And every creature — In the whole universe, good or bad.

In the heaven, on the earth, under the earth, on the sea — With these four regions of the world, agrees the fourfold word of praise. What is in heaven, says blessing; what is on earth, honour; what is under the earth, glory: what is on the sea, strength; is unto him. This praise from all creatures begins before the opening of the first seal; but it continues from that time to eternity, according to the capacity of each. His enemies must acknowledge his glory; but those in heaven say, Blessed be God and the Lamb. This royal manifesto is, as it were, a proclamation, showing how Christ fulfils all things, and "every knee bows to him," not only on earth, but also in heaven, and under the earth. This book exhausts all things, 1 Corinthians 15:27,28, and is suitable to an heart enlarged as the sand of the sea. It inspires the attentive and intelligent reader with such a magnanimity, that he accounts nothing in this world great; no, not the whole frame of visible nature, compared to the immense greatness of what he is here called to behold, yea, and in part, to inherit. St. John has in view, through the whole following vision, what he has been now describing, namely, the four living creatures, the elders, the angels, and all creatures, looking together at the opening of the seven seals.


1Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Son also shall be subject — Shall deliver up the mediatorial kingdom. That the three-one God may be all in all - All things, (consequently all persons,) without any interruption, without the intervention of any creature, without the opposition of any enemy, shall be subordinate to God. All shall say, "My God, and my all." This is the end. Even an inspired apostle can see nothing beyond this.



Disclaimer: This is not to state nor imply that the Methodist denomination of today in any way endorses any, many, or all of John Wesley's views. Just as the Unitarians are the furtherest thing from Christians today, and as they have absorbed into their organization the forgotten relics of the former Universalist Church of America, there aren't really any of 'em out there that are what they used to be. I have, however, found less hostility [and some friendliness] to my Restorationist views among the Methodists and among the Disciples of Christ Denomination.

Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 17, 2009, 05:41:15 PM
Molly,

Not sure what you mean by a number of ways. I have posted what I believe to be bliblical salvation above, please review. Jesus is the way the truth and the life : no one comes to the Father but through Me. ( John 14:6)

I'm just looking at that list above.  We are saved by--

enduring to the end or
believing and being baptized or
entering in through the door or
calling on his name or
through his grace or
through his blood or
through his death or
through his life or
receiving him or
believing on his name

probably some I missed but--

They all involve Jesus!