[Phl 2:10-11 ESV] "so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
:gimmefive:
[Rom 10:9-10 ESV] "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." :HeartThrob:
Recap: Scripture says - Every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. All who confess Jesus is Lord WILL BE SAVED. Nuf said? :dsunny: :banana:
:thumbsup:
Good to see you again ! good scripts :iagree:
Truth! :dsunny:
Quote from: JBerton on September 25, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
[Phl 2:10-11 ESV] "so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
:gimmefive:
[Rom 10:9-10 ESV] "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." :HeartThrob:
Recap: Scripture says - Every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. All who confess Jesus is Lord WILL BE SAVED. Nuf said? :dsunny: :banana:
What a Happy looking post!! Colorful! :)
:ty: And yes! Proof right there! "Nuf said"!
He can only be perfect, surely? therefor the 'end' result of all this (man's doings and history) can only be the best one possible! Logic. That's the second best thing which totally convinces me!
Great post! :smile:
...Look!..........and TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER........the salvation of mankind through Jesus Christ is the GLORY OF GOD!!!
Amen, brother.
To believe in eternal torment in hell is to believe Jesus will not go out after the lost sheep, and be content with the ninety and nine. That's not a very victorious Christ, but praise God, He did! :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:
Quote from: JBerton on September 25, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
[Phl 2:10-11 ESV] "so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
:gimmefive:
[Rom 10:9-10 ESV] "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." :HeartThrob:
Recap: Scripture says - Every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. All who confess Jesus is Lord WILL BE SAVED. Nuf said? :dsunny: :banana:
For me yes. As an ETer, I used to believe everyone would be forced to bow then sent to hell (like a big nyah nyah from Godj. I have repented of that belief.
"Look to me all ye ends of the earth and be saved, for I have sworn that ever knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess." I was never exposed to that first part.
Quote from: JBerton on September 25, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
[Phl 2:10-11 ESV] "so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
:gimmefive:
[Rom 10:9-10 ESV] "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." :HeartThrob:
Recap: Scripture says - Every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. All who confess Jesus is Lord WILL BE SAVED. Nuf said? :dsunny: :banana:
...awesome thread of truth! This is the real 'good news' for mankind :)
http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-verses-used-to-assert-not-all-will-be-saved/hebrews-927-after-death-comes-judgement/msg122137/#msg122137
Quote from: JBerton on September 25, 2014, 10:04:06 PM
[Phl 2:10-11 ESV] "so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
:gimmefive:
[Rom 10:9-10 ESV] "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." :HeartThrob:
Recap: Scripture says - Every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. All who confess Jesus is Lord WILL BE SAVED. Nuf said? :dsunny: :banana:
ET advocates would argue that by the time 99% or so confesses Jesus is Lord, it will be too late by then.
Quote from: Seth on September 26, 2014, 12:45:39 AM
For me yes. As an ETer, I used to believe everyone would be forced to bow then sent to hell (like a big nyah nyah from Godj. I have repented of that belief.
"Look to me all ye ends of the earth and be saved, for I have sworn that ever knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess." I was never exposed to that first part.
For me it us
UNBELIEVABLE that people could ever think that Yah would do something so vain as to
FORCE a confession out of his children just to have the pleasure of hearing it, then turn around and toss those same children into fire and burn them alive with an indestructible body continuously for eternity!
WHAT ARE THEY THINKING!? UNBELIEVABLE :punish: :sigh:
Seth, they overlook a lot of parts of scripture that are difficult for them to work around the hell doctrine. But that's what they do - work the entire of the scriptures around the doctrine of hell. It's all about HELL!
NOT!!! :winkgrin: :laugh: :laughing7:
Quote from: Searching_For_The_Truth on September 26, 2014, 03:29:24 PM
ET advocates would argue that by the time 99% or so confesses Jesus is Lord, it will be too late by then.
I'd like to see them produce a scripture reference that proves that there will ever be such a time as "too late." :gimmefive:
This is great but another verse pops into my mind that is in apparent contradiction with this:
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Thoughts?
Quote from: JBerton on September 26, 2014, 10:22:25 PM
Quote from: Searching_For_The_Truth on September 26, 2014, 03:29:24 PM
ET advocates would argue that by the time 99% or so confesses Jesus is Lord, it will be too late by then.
I'd like to see them produce a scripture reference that proves that there will ever be such a time as "too late." :gimmefive:
Wow! what a sad 'faith'!! (imo!)
Quote from: Eduard on October 06, 2014, 10:07:38 AM
This is great but another verse pops into my mind that is in apparent contradiction with this:
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Thoughts?
No one enters w/o believing and obeying the gospel... (i.e. repenting and being reconciled)
then one 'enters'.. but I like to point out to 'them' how heaven is coming to earth, not us 'going to heaven'...
From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been suffering violence,[e] and the violent have been seizing it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John; 14 if you're willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who is to come. 15 Anyone who has ears[f] should listen!
I don't see heaven and the kingdom of heaven as the same thing. I see it this way: Heaven, better termed "the heavens," is the spiritual realm, a dimension we cannot yet enter or see. However, the Kingdom of Heaven is Yah's spiritual kingdom within that dimension. The kingdom is already being established in the earth in us, as we have access to it through Jesus. This kingdom is both physical and spiritual. It will continue to be established more and more until it is fully established during the millennium, with King Jesus on the throne. :2c:
I like what Christ said, "The kingdom of God is inside of you." (Luke 17:21) I think the kingdom of the heavens will be in Jerusalem with Christ ruling.
Luke 17:21
Diaglott(i) 21 nor will they say: Lo here, or, or there; lo for, the majesty of the God in the midst of you is.
Rotherham(i) 21 Neither shall they say—Lo, here! or, There. For lo! the kingdom of God, is, among you.
Darby(i) 21 nor shall they say, Lo here, or, Lo there; for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.
"I will live among them and dwell among them and I shall be there God and they shall be my people."
Amen!
I believe that as Christ was in his Father, the Father was in Christ. I also believe that as we are in Christ, Christ is also in us. And I believe that as the Kingdom is in man, man is translated into the kingdom. That's why Christ told his disciples to continue abiding in him that they not become withered branches to be burned, meaning to become unfruitful and workers of unrighteousness to a spiritually destructive result. I believe it will all work out for the for the confession and bowing of all knees, but there are certain routes to being made humble that you don't want to take.
The kingdom of God,
Has its own set of rules.
The kingdom of man,
Has its own rules.
In the Kingdom of God , Jesus rules.
You can only enter through grace provided by Jesus.
The kingdom of man you enter through being born into Sin.
The workers in the kingdom of God produce LOVE.
The workers in the kingdom of Man produce inequity.
All Love is eternal. When we love we are already in the kingdom.
:cloud9:
ALL means ALL. ALL IS ALL. Should one find it unable to understand that JESUS CHRIST is the Saviour of the world.
1Jn 4:14 And we--we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son--Saviour of the world;
My question has been since the Lord revealed to me that HE WILL save all men....just what motivates BELIEVERS in Jesus Christ.... He who represents LOVE in their teaching...He who died for the sins of the world, in their teaching.....can so cold heartedlly almost dance with a glee that a majority of human beings will be put in a flaming fire that will singe there bodies in terror of screaming in a never ending place they call "hell" and as Mr. Kennedy calls this justice! Iv'e listened to Lutheran radio spew the same thing. The motivation surely is not Love or Jesus. There I vented. :dontknow:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 08, 2014, 03:57:20 AM
ALL means ALL. ALL IS ALL. Should one find it unable to understand that JESUS CHRIST is the Saviour of the world.
1Jn 4:14 And we--we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son--Saviour of the world;
My question has been since the Lord revealed to me that HE WILL save all men....just what motivates BELIEVERS in Jesus Christ.... He who represents LOVE in their teaching...He who died for the sins of the world, in their teaching.....can so cold heartedlly almost dance with a glee that a majority of human beings will be put in a flaming fire that will singe there bodies in terror of screaming in a never ending place they call "hell" and as Mr. Kennedy calls this justice! Iv'e listened to Lutheran radio spew the same thing. The motivation surely is not Love or Jesus. There I vented. :dontknow:
:iagree:
Yeah sometimes I get so frustrated with those who claim God will
torture fellow human beings.
I tell them the only people who actually qualify to be sent to this place
are those who claim that the God of Love tortures.
That they are blaspheming God telling demons that God the Father will torture
his children. That God is more vindictive than Satan
Yes, as in their god is my devil. With a god like that who needs a devil?
I, personally wonder why, why did the Lord God put this obstacle of a "burn in a hell" doctrine in the mix for our time ? Paul preached and wrote and never mentioned a hell even once, and his ministry had some mighty hard times without having to scare the folks with a "hell of fire."
Perhaps it's found in....2Th 2:3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because
2 Thes. 2:1-12 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Just some things I consider. :Peace2:
Paul did mention hell one time here translated grave, I think because it doesn't fit the standard idea of hell.
1Co 15:55
O death, where is thy sting? O grave (hades), where is thy victory?
Quote from: bushy on October 08, 2014, 07:12:38 PM
Paul did mention hell one time here translated grave, I think because it doesn't fit the standard idea of hell.
1Co 15:55
O death, where is thy sting? O grave (hades), where is thy victory?
"Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting?" (1 Corinthians 15:55)
"The Septuagint reads "0 Unseen, where is your sting?" (Hos.13:14), and some manuscripts follow this reading. As the tendency is to conform a quotation to its original, it is probable that Death was changed to Unseen by a copyist who knew the Septuagint reading but did not see that the apostle had enlarged the scope of the quotation to include the consummation, when there is no unseen (Un.20:14) and only the second death remains. A quotation is often varied from its original reading to fit it for its new context." (Concordant Commentary pg.264-1 Corinthians 15:55)
Could you explain a little further how the septuagint reads, "Oh unseen"? I am not finding that anywhere.
Thanatos (of which Thanate is a form in 1 cor 15:55) is death wherever I can find it.
Quote from: eaglesway on October 10, 2014, 09:54:12 AM
Could you explain a little further how the septuagint reads, "Oh unseen"? I am not finding that anywhere.
Thanatos (of which Thanate is a form in 1 cor 15:55) is death wherever I can find it.
I attached a couple of screenshots showing the difference in the ancient text and comparison of the Concordant Version, Authorized Version(KJV), and Young's Literal Translation.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: bushy on October 08, 2014, 07:12:38 PM
Paul did mention hell one time here translated grave, I think because it doesn't fit the standard idea of hell.
1Co 15:55
O death, where is thy sting? O grave (hades), where is thy victory?
To understand that read a bit of Greek mythology....
Hades is the Greek underworld. The abode of the wicked. The ruler is a god called Hades. The victory of the god Hades is obviously a vast kingdom. A kingdom that's taken away.
Exactly WW.
Tom I looked at it. Unseen is not suggested as a replacement for "death"/thanatos". It is suggested perhaps as a translation for "hades"or "the grave" from "unseen",imo and as WW noted.
1 Corinthians 15:55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave — Αδης, O hades, the receptacle of separate souls; where is thy victory? — Thou art now robbed of thy spoils; all thy captives are set at liberty. "The word hades literally signifies the invisible world, or the world where departed spirits, both good and bad, remain till the resurrection, Job
From Hosea 13:14, it is sheol, hades being the (poor)Greek translation of the word.
Plz read this short page. Before you click the link put on your HELmet :laugh:
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=hel%20with%201%20l.htm (http://home.online.nl/spamfree/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=hel%20with%201%20l.htm)
I find it striking that in Norsk folklore the dead get set free at the birth of the new world. That's in a way what the Bible teaches because our world ends in way as the old passes away etc. Even an evil serpent.
Cool. I am pretty familiar with the Norse cosmolgy and mythology. Fascinating stuff. In addition to ragnarok- They gave us Hell. ;o)
Here's another verse that ET'ers love to throw around:
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.
The key here, I believe, is that it's not a correct translation. Young's literal translation has it as: who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength
Thoughts? :2c:
Quote from: Eduard on October 12, 2014, 06:36:33 PM
Here's another verse that ET'ers love to throw around:
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.
The key here, I believe, is that it's not a correct translation. Young's literal translation has it as: who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength
Thoughts? :2c:
I believe Jesus is our protector and our strength so , if you draw close to Him evil has to flee , you have peace and joy in the Holy Spirit
so if the Lord and His presence is in you , your safe
and those whom evil is present is troubling , no peace is nothing but no rest day or night
and I believe its in this life
Jesus prayer was to keep us from the evil one But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. ... But the Lord is faithful; He will strengthen and guard you from the evil one. ... regard to the words in the Lord's Prayer: "Deliver us from evil;" or "from the evil one"
If the evil one is in you than you do not have any peace but are still a restless wanderer and troubles and wickedness is surrounding you in this life all the time
you must repent and confess to be delivered from the man of sin
This is what I see Br Eduard to this verse you brought out . we are to walk in the Spirit of God not in the flesh , troubles in the flesh always
Quote from: eaglesway on October 12, 2014, 07:50:14 AM
Exactly WW.
Tom I looked at it. Unseen is not suggested as a replacement for "death"/thanatos". It is suggested perhaps as a translation for "hades"or "the grave" from "unseen",imo and as WW noted.
My reply here « Reply #31 on: October 10, 2014, 03:23:53 PM » has a couple of attachments showing the two different Greek words for "death" and "unseen" in the ancient text used in different manuscripts, and it also has a short explanation concerning how that probably happened.
Quote from: eaglesway on October 12, 2014, 07:50:14 AM
Exactly WW.
Tom I looked at it. Unseen is not suggested as a replacement for "death"/thanatos". It is suggested perhaps as a translation for "hades"or "the grave" from "unseen",imo and as WW noted.
I aware of "hades" in Greek mythology and the fact that most of the folks Paul was writing to were Greek speaking pagans before they were believers, but I think the true scriptural meaning of the word "hades" is found in the root meaning of it which is "unseen." The point of the confusion in question between "death" and "hades" in 1 Corinthians 15:55 is that only some of the manuscripts contain "unseen" instead of "death." I repeat what I said in my earlier post.
"Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting?" (1 Corinthians 15:55)
"The Septuagint reads "0 Unseen, where is your sting?" (Hos.13:14), and some manuscripts follow this reading. As the tendency is to conform a quotation to its original, it is probable that Death was changed to Unseen by a copyist who knew the Septuagint reading but did not see that the apostle had enlarged the scope of the quotation to include the consummation, when there is no unseen (Un.20:14) and only the second death remains. A quotation is often varied from its original reading to fit it for its new context." (Concordant Commentary pg.264-1 Corinthians 15:55)
I've included the attachments again to show the different Greek words in the ancient text. Look again closely.
[attachment deleted by admin]
yea, I see your perspective on it. I think Hades is a Greek philosophical and mythilogical and religious substitution at worst, and a poor translation at best, but then I am one who believes he scritpures were given, OT and NT, predominantly in Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac and that Greek came later.
However, let me say this about unseen.
"unseen" may the etymological meaning
"the grave" is what it meant to the hearers and speakers of the word in its time. "the grave" is what they heard/saw/though conceptually when they heard the word.
When we deal with translation, it is not JUST about roots. The scriptures were given over thousands of years. Translators must also consider what the concept in the mind of the speaker/writer was in the time it was spoken.
The purpose of translation is to transmit MEANING accurately. It is by nature somewhat subjective- therefore we consider as many witnesses as possible in areas that are clouded by different interpretations.
the MEANING of sheol has always been clear. So has the MEANING of hades. The Romans, in the Latin Vulgate, translated "sheol/hades" into "inferno".
That is where the idea that hades was just a word meaning "unseen" breaks down for me. I believe the Greeks inserted their theology along with that transaltion, even as the Romans did with "inferno" and the English with "hell".
Thats my opinion on it :o)
This happens in EVERY TRANSLATION (imo)
I notice that in the Concordant Version that foundation of the world" is translated "disruption of the world"
To me this a theological interpretation, not a direct translation, because the same word is used in Hebrews 11 of the seed of Abraham planted in the womb of Sarah- definitely not a "disruption"- but it slipped through because of the theology of the translators. To me THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS, and that is why we need multiple translations and must consider all the reasonable views to reach a godly consensus- so that is why I offer my views- not in order to re-write anyone elses theology :o)