Tentmaker Forum

I had always been told that Satan wanted to steal as many souls into hell for eternity as possible. But seeing as there isn't an eternal hell, I guess his mission is to keep us dead in our sin(?). But-

Does satan know about UR?
Will he be saved? (Coll 1:15- comes to mind.)
If the LoF is now, like some people believe, when will Satan be saved?

Appologies if this has been covered before, which I suspect it has, a link to the appropriate thread would be very appreciated!  :thumbsup:
:dsunny:
:icon_flower:

QuoteDoes satan know about UR?

interesting question, I've read in an UR article that the doctrine of eternal torment is lie of the lawless one (i.e. the devil), that believeth not that he shall return out of darkness, and he is waited for of the sword. (Job 15:22)

Satan's mission is to deceive the world - I'd say he's doing a pretty good job...

Natcat,

I hate this topic.  Mostly because it is similar to the circular one about free will.   And it always ends with someone who believes Satan will be saved (which sounds horrible and I don't believe he will be).  But anyhow, I just thought I'd say I have had this discussion before and find it is not worth discussing.
No offense intended toward you.  If people want to discuss it, it matters not to me.

Anne

that believeth not that he shall return out of darkness, and he is waited for of the sword. (Job 15:22)

[/quote]

Does this mean Satan doesn't believe he will be saved?

well that Job 15:22 refers to the devil is a far fetched interpretation but an interesting thought anyway, I think the devil believes that he will oppose God forevermore.

I can not imagine that the devil believes he will be saved, maybe he does, but opposes this thought, maybe he does not want to be saved.

QuoteAnd it always ends with someone who believes Satan will be saved

I'm just curious, what do you think will happen to him?

I think that is Satan doesn't want to be saved and this leads to him not being saved, what about humans who do not want to be saved?

If this topic is as contentious as the free will one mayne we should wait for the green light from a mod?

Dont want to cause any problems  :HeartThrob:

Ok friends, I am giving this as my personal understanding...

Satan, devil, or what ever I think you mean by a thing outside of Humanity, i.e. a red horned being. "never existed" a being other than the Bible devil/Satan is man made. Now the bible devil/Satan is the element that dwells inside all humanity as the 5 scenes. And the condition known as human feelings through the awareness of the human mind, "thought", will never be saved/can't. This is not the soul,spirit and body of humanity. It is the Lusts of the dirt we are made up of. Man.

Satan, can't be saved also because about 2000 years ago the image that the followers of God / His People had  Was, "past tense" saved by the Holy Anointed of the father in a Man called Jesus. And this Jesus Killed and imprisoned this "image' his people had of this beast.

I believe that most of UR knows that in mankind, dwells something that "can" be bad. I call it the 5 senses of Mankind.
sorry about miss spelling, can't spell great.

Lee Damboise II

I think satan is on the fourth place of knowing things. (Father Son HS)
Even the demons begged Jesus not to torment before their time.
And if satan really wasn't aware of UR until Jesus he had plenty of time to read the scriptures.
Maybe a better question would be: "Is it even possible for satan to do something good? Can he control himself? Is he just a tool?"

Whether a person builds on this foundation with gold, silver, expensive stones, wood, hay, or straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

peacemaker

 :cloud9: He must or he wouldn't be after EVERYONE, LOL....... :dontknow: Blessings....

Gen 3:1  Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"

Joh 8:44  You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning  (G746), and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.  

G746 αρχή  archē  Thayer Definition: 1) beginning, origin

1Jo 3:8  Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning (G746). The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

Job 26:13  By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.


Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient (G744) serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

G744   αρχαιος   archaios
Thayer Definition:
1)   that has been from the beginning,  original

Interesting topic, does Satan know?

2Co 4:4  in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

One might conclude, Satan is part of the plan?

Mar 4:15  And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them.

Now why is Satan only bound at the end of the age yet not now?

Rev 20:2  And he seized the dragon, that ancient (G744) serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand  years,


I think Satan knows why he was created! As Paul said... All is of God!



Paul

Ok friends, I am giving this as my personal understanding...

Satan, devil, or what ever I think you mean by a thing outside of Humanity, i.e. a red horned being. "never existed" a being other than the Bible devil/Satan is man made. Now the bible devil/Satan is the element that dwells inside all humanity as the 5 scenes. And the condition known as human feelings through the awareness of the human mind, "thought", will never be saved/can't. This is not the soul,spirit and body of humanity. It is the Lusts of the dirt we are made up of. Man.

Satan, can't be saved also because about 2000 years ago the image that the followers of God / His People had  Was, "past tense" saved by the Holy Anointed of the father in a Man called Jesus. And this Jesus Killed and imprisoned this "image' his people had of this beast.

I believe that most of UR knows that in mankind, dwells something that "can" be bad. I call it the 5 senses of Mankind.
sorry about miss spelling, can't spell great.

Lee Damboise II

Hey Lee, I removed your [quote/quote] to make you post look better. I did not alter your text Paul :mblush:

Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."

Webster...1828 version

And
AND, conj.

And is a conjunction, connective or conjoining word. It signifies that a word or part of a sentence is to be added to what precedes. Thus, give me an apple and an orange; that is, give me an apple, add or give in addition to that, an orange. John and Peter and James rode to New York, that is, John rode to New York; add or further, Peter rode to New York; add James rode to New York.

I'm familiar with your view, however the Satan here in Job 1:6, is not dwelling inside all humanity.

Paul  

I'm also familiar with your view, nevertheless, are human beings less adversarial or life without adversity?

A calamitous event, either way you look at it.

peacemaker

Quote from: natcat86 on November 24, 2009, 08:48:42 PM
If this topic is as contentious as the free will one mayne we should wait for the green light from a mod?

Dont want to cause any problems  :HeartThrob:

I don't see any problem with it Nat as long as folks follow the basics.  

Like most topics, actually, it could lead into a free will/sovereignty battle, or a "gee, the Bible's not true anyway" or "it doesn't matter to me what the Bible says, let me tell you what I think", etc...

Let's just not go there + the mods won't let it, so it should be fine.  I personally think it's a pretty relevant UR question, i.e., "so what does God being All in All really mean, anyway"?  Thanks for being considerate.  :bigGrin:

James.

If Satan is not saved what will happen to him? burnt up in LoF?

natcat,

My thought on this.
There are several verses about burning things.
Bad works for example.
A better example imo is wheat and chaf.
The chaf is burned. But wheat and chaf both are the same plant. So the same person.
There are also several verses telling us Father is a refiner and a fullars soap.
So I think that all the bad parts (chaf) of us will be burned up and never return. The cleaned part (chaf) goes to heaven.
Now for satan if he is pure evil then he is pure chaf. And nothing remains for heaven.
Not sure the Bible writes something like that about satan because (nearly) all verses are about humans.
Just an idea for you to consider.

/edit not to start a debate about it but you should also consider that some think satan is a tool in God's plan. Satan won't get wiped out of existance because he did what he was designed for. I just mention this because it makes my whole wheat/chaff explanation none relavant...

I was wondering if Satan is a part of the plan like Judas, Pharaoh, raised up to show God's glory. If people want to let me know their opinions PM me so we dont get into the free will debate.  :girlheart:

I can understand the purpose of the fire being refining. I cant imagine God creating anything without a purpose which glorifies him (apart from men's nipples :laugh:).

A good example of God In MEN, minus the "and"
Was any of these men in possession of evil in them "ever"????

If evil is Satan, or Satan is Evil....?  IF


As to anyone saying that the bible "isn't the Word of God Question" I feel that the Day that I have to stop saying IMO "in my opinion" about what the Father Reveals to me then I'll go to a Baptist church for knowledge.

These were the Sons of God at Jesus' time, who where the Rest of humans.?????????????????????????????????????

Lee  Be back in an hour

Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself was beginning to be about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, son of Joseph,
Luk 3:24  the son of Eli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Janna, the son of Joseph,
Luk 3:25  the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Naum, the son of Esli,
Luk 3:26  the son of Naggai, the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semei, the son of Joseph, the son of Juda,
Luk 3:27  the son of Joanna, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,
Luk 3:28  the son of Neri, the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmodam, the son of Er,
Luk 3:29  the son of Jose, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
Luk 3:30  the son of Levi, the son of Simeon, the son of Juda, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonan, the son of Eliakim,
Luk 3:31  the son of Melea, the son of Mainan, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
Luk 3:32  the son of David, the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Booz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon,
Luk 3:33  the son of Amminadab, the son of Aram, the son of Esrom, the son of Pharez,
Luk 3:34  the son of Judah, the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
Luk 3:35  the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,
Luk 3:36  the son of Salah, the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
Luk 3:37  the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel,
Luk 3:38  the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Quote from: natcat86 on November 25, 2009, 04:31:43 PM(apart from men's nipples :laugh:).

Psssst, it's for deflating potbellies :laughing7:

 :cloud9: :laughing7: Good one...... :thumbsup:

 :mrflo:

Quote from: natcat86 on November 25, 2009, 03:59:03 PM
If Satan is not saved what will happen to him? burnt up in LoF?

Good question... Col 1:20  and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

What things in heaven need reconciled?


Paul

Quote from: natcat86 on November 25, 2009, 04:31:43 PM
I was wondering if Satan is a part of the plan like Judas, Pharaoh, raised up to show God's glory. If people want to let me know their opinions PM me so we dont get into the free will debate.  :girlheart:

I can understand the purpose of the fire being refining. I cant imagine God creating anything without a purpose which glorifies him (apart from men's nipples :laugh:).

:omg:

What in deed needs it in Heaven!!!

Quote from: Pierac on November 26, 2009, 03:57:55 AM

Quote from: natcat86 on November 25, 2009, 03:59:03 PM
If Satan is not saved what will happen to him? burnt up in LoF?

Good question... Col 1:20  and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

What things in heaven need reconciled?

That's a deep question....
Does all include animals, plants, spirits? If so how did a plant sin?
As for heaven.... that would mean heaven is just a mess as earth is (right now)
Satan and his hord seem to be doing their stuff on earth not in heaven. So who are in the heaven group?

Quote from: Pierac on November 26, 2009, 03:57:55 AM


What things in heaven need reconciled?


Paul

God's missing angels?

QuoteNow for satan if he is pure evil then he is pure chaf. And nothing remains for heaven.

God is a consuming fire.  God the Father will burn all the wood hay and stubble from each of us. The bible says to not be amazed at the firery trials we go through but that they are necessary for the "perfecting of the saints".

So God himself burns away all the bad from within and all that will be left is good.

Jesus said "there is no good thing in the enemy".  So if the enemy goes through a "purification process" there will be "nothing left".

Quote from: Pierac on November 26, 2009, 04:00:54 AM

Quote from: natcat86 on November 25, 2009, 04:31:43 PM
I was wondering if Satan is a part of the plan like Judas, Pharaoh, raised up to show God's glory. If people want to let me know their opinions PM me so we dont get into the free will debate.  :girlheart:

I can understand the purpose of the fire being refining. I cant imagine God creating anything without a purpose which glorifies him (apart from men's nipples :laugh:).

:omg:

The answer might scare you:
http://menshealth.about.com/od/conditions/a/Nipples_Men.htm (http://menshealth.about.com/od/conditions/a/Nipples_Men.htm)

Some thoughts to ponder. 

Is "being saved" the same thing as "being reconciled"?

Jesus shed his blood for the sins of the world.  God said He would have "all men" saved. Satan deffinately is not a man. To me when the scriptures speak of salvation it is referring to something that "only man" can attain.

But the scriptures also say "to be reconciled to God".  This is speaking to those that have already "been saved". We know there are many that have come to the cross of Christ. Many sitting right in the many pews around the world and many who have "come out" so to speak, yes they have received Christ but are they truly reconciled to God? Do their day to day lives show as a witness that they are walking with the Lord in all they do and say? I know many that call themselves Christians. Believe 100 percent that they are saved.  But walking with God , spending time with God, being in constant communion with God is a different story.  So is being saved and being reconciled to God the same thing or different things?

If satan cannot attain salvation which is for man, can he be reconciled to God at an appointed time set aside by the Father? The bible says that satan is a created being and that he is a tool in the Father's hands for his plans and purposes.  When all is said and done then when the "all things will be reconciled" whether on earth or in heaven, does that include satan?

Also the part about God being "all in all'.  If God is omnipresent then is He not "all in all" now? If there is no where where God is not, then how can He not be all in all now? Unless the "all in all" is not referring to anything "physical".  For if God is "all in all" now because He is omnipresent then the whole of creation is actually "within God himself" for it cannot be "outside" of God if He is omnipresent. So what does "all in all" actually mean?

Could it be simply that God IS ALL to ALL.  A state of being where nothing else exists to or for any one except God? Where we actually attain to that state of being spiritually that there is nothing else "except God". When every person who has ever lived , is living or will live is in that place spiritually where "GOD is ALL" in All?  That place spiritually where Light has truly swallowed up all darkness in all. 

Seems to me that "the ages" will end at some point. Then there will be no more time.  All will be.  A state of being. With God being ALL in ALL and to ALL.

Just some thoughts.

Quote from: 333 on November 28, 2009, 05:44:12 AMIs "being saved" the same thing as "being reconciled"?

I think not but can't really explain why. But I can say one leads to the other.

QuoteJesus shed his blood for the sins of the world.  God said He would have "all men" saved. Satan deffinately is not a man. To me when the scriptures speak of salvation it is referring to something that "only man" can attain.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Heaven and "all things" don't exclude everything besides humans. For example there are a few verses that tell us animals will be in heaven too. So it seems to extend beyound humans only.

QuoteAlso the part about God being "all in all'.  If God is omnipresent then is He not "all in all" now?

Does that mean He is alos in satan...

Quote from: WhiteWings on November 26, 2009, 11:47:35 AM

Quote from: Pierac on November 26, 2009, 03:57:55 AM

Quote from: natcat86 on November 25, 2009, 03:59:03 PM
If Satan is not saved what will happen to him? burnt up in LoF?

Good question... Col 1:20  and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

What things in heaven need reconciled?

That's a deep question....
Does all include animals, plants, spirits? If so how did a plant sin?
As for heaven.... that would mean heaven is just a mess as earth is (right now)
Satan and his hord seem to be doing their stuff on earth not in heaven. So who are in the heaven group?

Whitewings,

Plants and animals have not sinned, but they certainly have been affected by the curse and animals certainly do suffer.  I think the suffering of animals is sad and a result of the corruption of Adam's race.  And I think the whole creation does groan for deliverance including the natural world around us.

Anne

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 28, 2009, 04:18:57 PMPlants and animals have not sinned

I know. It was just a rhetorical sub question. The main question is about satan and heaven.

Does God love Satan?

Is "being saved" the same thing as "being reconciled"?[/quote]I think not but can't really explain why.

I know it isn't the same at all...............

IMO  here is a clue,

Only the Lost Sheep can be saved-which is only of the House of Israel

All the rest is under a different system, Justification is the gracious act of God Reckoning the sinner to be Just and Righteous through the deliverance which is IN Christ Jesus, Through faith in His Blood,(JC's Faith not ours) with the assurance of being maintained and vindicated against all that may attact or indict UNTIL the day of deliverance.( Rom. 3:21-28;4:3-12, 23-25;5:1-2;8:30-34 Gal. 2:15-16; Eph. 1:13-14, 4:30 )

The Gospel Of OUR Salvation pg.71

Lee Damboise II

Hi Lee,

Wow, I never thought of it like this before but makes sense. Jesus said, "I am sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". What you said would explain this statement.

CHB

I am truly sorry to say that the book I mentioned has millions of bits of facts not known by the average door knocker. Lee

That would mean that there are two classes of people on the Earth.   Saved people who are  reconciled back to relationship with God ,   and saved people who have not been reconciled yet. 

Not really Full,

it means that God's Plan ended at the cross about 2009 years ago for His special house people then it started anew with a new system.

Can you help me with your Avatar Question I PM-ed you.????

 :cloud9: There's another possibility........all Israel and strangers were allowed into the outer court. The outer court realm now is all those that do NOT have the baptism of His Spirit, therefore are not part of the spiritual priesthood. That designation (Israel) encompasses everyone else, in other words, because once the spiritual covenant included the Gentiles (strangers), it was the same pattern of non-priesthood plus strangers = outer court. Blessings....

Where does Satan and the fallen angels fit in, saved, unsaved, reconcilled, not-reconcilled?
:girlheart:

Cardinal:
Peter was prevailed upon to carry the blessing to the foreigner, Cornelius (son of Japheth).  The Ethiopian eunuch had joined himself to Jehovah's covenant in full obedience, even submitting to circumcision, which constituted him a proselyte of righteousness, with the social and religious privilege of going to Jerusalem and worshiping IN "the Father's House"--The temple. Yet an important fact to be noted here ,is , that the eunuch had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and had left without hearing of Jesus Christ! This reveals to what lengths the apostasy had developed in two short years! With his baptism into the name of JC, he went on his way rejoicing ( Act. 8:26-39), according as the prophets had foretold, "rejoicing with His people" Deut. 32:43


Some six years later--about eight years after Pentecost--- we find Peter, in obedience to his heavenly visions and charge ( Act 10:9-16), at the house of Cornelius, speaking words by which he  and his house were to be saved (act. 11: 14). Cornelius was a "foreigner who joined himself to Jehovah, keeping His Sabbaths and holding fast His covenant" (Isa. 56:1-8).  He was "devout and fearing God with his entire house, doing alms to the people {Israel} and beseeching God continually, ...Besides being attested by the whole nation of the Jews" ( Act 10: 2, 22. But he had not been circumcised. Therefore, by not submitting to the covenant of circumcision, he was recognized as only a proselyte of the gate, and as such, was considered a "foreigner" ( Act. 10:28; 11:2-3; Gal. 2:11-13), outside the social and religious fellowship of the nations of the Jews. After the heavenly visions and charge from God, Peter went and used the "keys" of the kingdom committed to him by the Lord, Bringing to Cornelius and his house "the gospel of the Circumcision" ( Act 10:34-35; 11:14).  Consequently, the Holy Spirit was poured out on them and they spake in languages and magnified God, according as the prophets had foretold ( Act 10: 46; Psa. 117:1-2). Then peter bids them to be baptized in the name of JC ( Act. 10:47-48).

To the above Question, it must be totally understood that Angel has only one God meaning= a mail delivery system= one who brings a message. Good or bad. life or death, Good news or Bad news (messenger of Life or a Messenger of death  { Most People I've Met in church} )

Quote from: Lee Damboise on November 28, 2009, 07:15:04 PM
To the above Question, it must be totally understood that Angel has only one God meaning= a mail delivery system= one who brings a message. Good or bad. life or death, Good news or Bad news (messenger of Life or a Messenger of death  { Most People I've Met in church} )

:thumbsup:

 good post Lee !Pro 18:21 Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.  

and here
And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in your  name; and we forbid him, because he follows not with us.  


Luk 9:50   And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us.  


Luk 9:51  And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,  

Luk 9:52   And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.  


Luk 9:53   And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.  

Luk 9:54   And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, will you  that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?  



 the law of moses  death without mercy  verses the law of   saving Grace .......... :HeartThrob:


Luk 9:55   But he turned, and rebuked them, and said,

You  know not what manner of spirit you  are of.  

 


For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save [them]. And they went to another village.

 :2c:

this is going over my head a bit.  :fool:

Who is Satan? a messenger?

Quote from: natcat86 on November 28, 2009, 07:39:15 PM
this is going over my head a bit.  :fool:

Who is Satan? a messenger?

  Hi Sis ,
  satan  /adversity

  sure can be a messenger

  will use Peter as an example of   satan /adversity
speaking of the things of men  the temorary  and darkness ignorance

  against the will of God ...

31And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

32And He was stating the matter plainly. And Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him.
33But turning around and seeing His disciples, He rebuked Peter and said, "Get behind Me, Satan; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

34And He summoned the crowd with His disciples, and said to them, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

  So we see the spirit of  satan working in Peter
   but Peter did not stay in that  darkness / ignorance  and adverse  will


  maybe someone else can explain this better ...

  it is one  example that got me to wonder  :HeartThrob:

I thought Satan and the fallen angels were beings, they seem to have a physical quality, like where it says they used to have sex with women and their off spring were the nephilim?

Quote from: natcat86 on November 28, 2009, 09:03:58 PM
I thought Satan and the fallen angels were beings, they seem to have a physical quality, like where it says they used to have sex with women and their off spring were the nephilim?

  Guess its all how you look at is sis .

  you talking about this verse   here ?  I see no proof of nephillium ,
   those men of renown , mean of great  reputation   ,  well known



Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.  Strong's H8034 - shem שֵׁם

shem
Pronunciation

shām (Key)


masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

A primitive word [perhaps rather from שׂוּם (H7760) TWOT Reference
2405 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position



Outline of Biblical Usage 1) name

a) name

b) reputation, fame, glory

c) the Name (as designation of God)

d) memorial, monument




  for me the    the daughters of men  are ''doctrines of men '' 

  though the   Mother harlot [ mother harlot ] rev Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 


Gen 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD

  gen 10 the geanology and 11 the name for themselves  shem  means name
 

   for me its  not so  believeable the nephilium / giants   in that way  anylonger , they are  just famous old men to me

  others   am sure will disagree

  its ok  you have to believe in what the Lord  gives you .. :HeartThrob:

Quote from: natcat86 on November 28, 2009, 09:03:58 PM
I thought Satan and the fallen angels were beings, they seem to have a physical quality, like where it says they used to have sex with women and their off spring were the nephilim?

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=3554.0
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=6353.0
Just search for Fallen angel on the forum. Doesn't look fallen angel is Biblical

I'm not sure if its what the Lord has given me, just what I'd always been taught/asumed. I'd always thought that the OT was a literal historical document.  :dontknow:

If I'm proved wrong thats cool, hey I used to believe God would throw the majority of His creation into a lake of fire for an eternity of torture so.... :happy3:

Quote from: natcat86 on November 28, 2009, 09:22:56 PM
If I'm proved wrong thats cool, hey I used to believe God would throw the majority of His creation into a lake of fire for an eternity of torture so.... :happy3:

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm not a teacher. But I think it's good you read all views and then draw your own conclusion.
Search for "Fallen Angel"    <=== with the ""
For user enter willieH <===I think he's the one that's strongest opposed to the fallen angel stuff.
There is a long thread about it but I can't find it right now.

Cool cheers man.

Quote from: natcat86 on November 28, 2009, 09:21:23 PM
I'm not sure if its what the Lord has given me, just what I'd always been taught/asumed. I'd always thought that the OT was a literal historical document.  :dontknow:

The  old is passing away Sis   types and shadows 
  as the  new  is established  in Jesus Christ  :HeartThrob:

willieH: Hi Natcat -- :hithere:

You may not believe or agree with what I say, but here is my  :2c:

Quote from: natcat86 on November 24, 2009, 07:55:42 PM
I had always been told that Satan wanted to steal as many souls into hell for eternity as possible.

What you have "always been told", ...is a LIE, Natcat.

FIRST -- "Eternity" is not a state which supports a "duration".  Time is a progressive measurable entity capable of "duration".  Eternity just ...IS... unmeasureable, without beginning or end, and therefore, without a "duration".

SECOND -- in order for anything to be "ETERNAL" (Hell for instance), the attachment of BEFORE, NOW and AFTER are thereby noted.  So if someone were to be in HELL for ETERNITY -- then they WERE in Hell, ...ARE in Hell, and ALWAYS WILL BE in Hell...

ETERNITY is NOT "from now---on"!  We as time-bound entities, cannot comprehend something [ETERNITY] that is not only without END but also WITHOUT BEGINNING!  :dontknow:  EVER in the PRESENT tense.

Quote from: natcat86 on November 24, 2009, 07:55:42 PMBut seeing as there isn't an eternal hell, I guess his mission is to keep us dead in our sin(?). but

Does satan know about UR?
Will he be saved? (Coll 1:15- comes to mind.)
If the LoF is now, like some people believe, when will Satan be saved?

"satan" is not a being and therefore "knows" nothing, and has no need to be "saved"... Only sentient entities which can partake of EVIL are in need of Salvation.

"satan" [adversity, and adversary to good] is a principality which has no more sentience (conscious intelligence), than does GOOD... is GOOD a sentient "being" that God created?  Of course it is not...

GOOD is that which defines what is RIGHT... and is found in the OBSERVANCE of, and OBEDIENCE to -- the COMMAND and WORD of GOD --- :nod:

"satan" [the opposition to GOOD] is that which defines what is WRONG... and is found in the INOBSERVANCE of, and DISOBEDIENCE to -- the COMMAND and WORD of GOD.

Christianity empowers this MYTH, with the traits of GOD... everywhere at once... tempting everyone simultaneously... knowing what each individuals weaknesses are and exploiting them, ...what a lot of PHONY garbage.  :thumbdown:

You are welcome to believe otherwise... :friendstu:

"satan" [adversity, and adversary to good] is a principality which has no more sentience (conscious intelligence), than does GOOD... is GOOD a sentient "being" that God created?  Of course it is not...

GOOD is that which defines what is RIGHT... and is found in the OBSERVANCE of, and OBEDIENCE to -- the COMMAND and WORD of GOD --- :nod:

"satan" [the opposition to GOOD] is that which defines what is WRONG... and is found in the INOBSERVANCE of, and DISOBEDIENCE to -- the COMMAND and WORD of GOD.

Christianity empowers this MYTH, with the traits of GOD... everywhere at once... tempting everyone simultaneously... knowing what each individuals weaknesses are and exploiting them, ...what a lot of PHONY garbage.  :thumbdown:
[/quote]

Amen brother for that nugget of truth!  :yes: :iagree:

I was told for years in the institutions of man that it was wrong to study about the devil and demons and when I began my deeper walk I felt it was time to find out the truth. 

Try studying the words Satan/devil/demon/evil spirit in the original; the truth really does set you free!! :Book:

But it will leave you wondering where in the world churchianity came up with their point of view.

willieH: Hi Cre8ed2worship!  :welcome: to TM!

Gotta say -- I  :HeartThrob: your name!  TRUTH in a name!

That is exactly what we are!  Cre8ed2worship!

Quote from: cre8ed2worship on November 29, 2009, 04:41:36 AM

Quote from: willieH"satan" [adversity, and adversary to good] is a principality which has no more sentience (conscious intelligence), than does GOOD... is GOOD a sentient "being" that God created?  Of course it is not...

GOOD is that which defines what is RIGHT... and is found in the OBSERVANCE of, and OBEDIENCE to -- the COMMAND and WORD of GOD --- :nod:

"satan" [the opposition to GOOD] is that which defines what is WRONG... and is found in the INOBSERVANCE of, and DISOBEDIENCE to -- the COMMAND and WORD of GOD.

Christianity empowers this MYTH, with the traits of GOD... everywhere at once... tempting everyone simultaneously... knowing what each individuals weaknesses are and exploiting them, ...what a lot of PHONY garbage.  :thumbdown:

Amen brother for that nugget of truth!  :yes: :iagree:

I was told for years in the institutions of man that it was wrong to study about the devil and demons and when I began my deeper walk I felt it was time to find out the truth. 

Try studying the words Satan/devil/demon/evil spirit in the original; the truth really does set you free!! :Book:

But it will leave you wondering where in the world churchianity came up with their point of view.

I spent almost 25yrs in the system... and questioned many pastors and leaders about their doctrinal statements... the more I questioned, the farther I moved away from them, for they him'd & haw'd, and never really answered me!

It is quite amazing that aside from proclaiming the NAME of JESUS, that their teachings are mostly perverted and in the end promote FEAR and VENGENCE instead of PEACE and LOVE...

Glad you have joined us and look forward to your comments and participation!

:Peace:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Hi Willie,

I read some of your posts on Evidence for God in science forum, was part of the journey that lead me to UR so good to see you here too!!!  :girlheart:

A belief in Satan as a being is very ingrained for me. Just like it has taken me a long time to get over the idea that Jesus has saved us from hell, this one might take me a while to get my head round!

When Jesus was casting out demons and they were speaking to them, they left the body of the man and went into the Pigs, that seems like they were beings to me?? Wht was Tartarus for if not for demonic beings?  :dontknow:

I dont really agree or disagree with anyone on this matter as I haven't really made my mind up based on the facts yet, so thanks for sharing!

Nat

willieH: Hi Natcat!  :welcome: to Tentmaker!  :friendstu:

Quote from: natcat86 on November 29, 2009, 10:00:23 PM
Hi Willie,

I read some of your posts on Evidence for God in science forum, was part of the journey that lead me to UR so good to see you here too!!!  :girlheart:

Glad that you have decided to join us here at TM!  :grouppray:

Quote from: natcat86 on November 29, 2009, 10:00:23 PMA belief in Satan as a being is very ingrained for me. Just like it has taken me a long time to get over the idea that Jesus has saved us from hell, this one might take me a while to get my head round!

It's okay NC... we are all on a journey of learning...  :thumbsup:  I always try to suggest to others, to investigate anything that anyone says! (including me)... Praying for God's leading to bless and permeate your search... :nod:

Quote from: natcat86 on November 29, 2009, 10:00:23 PMWhen Jesus was casting out demons and they were speaking to them, they left the body of the man and went into the Pigs, that seems like they were beings to me??  Wht was Tartarus for if not for demonic beings?  :dontknow:

FIRST -- Tartarus is the Greek word meaning --- the DEEPEST region of HADES... which is reserved for "angels" (messengers) which bear other than the TRUTH...  :dontknow: 

The Greek word translated "angels" in the ONLY verse in the Bible, which uses the word TARTARUS -- 2 Pet 2:4 -- is AGGELOS #G32 -- which means -- angel, pastor, messenger --  :dontknow:

SECOND -- This word [aggelos] is not JUST the definition of beings which are of the Heavenly realm.  The word "angel" concerning the Heavenly realm defines residents OF IT.  Nowhere in Scripture (that I have found), are ANGELS ever considered "DEMONS"... Nor have I found any Scripture which notes that ANY of the ANGELS of Heaven, ever became "DEMONS". (btw "demon" is not a Biblical term)

I'll try to explain to you how I presently see this:

The whole concept of "devils" and "demons" is an invention of the APOSTATE church and gospel... which teaches other than the TRUTH.  :sigh:

The word translated "DEVILS" (in this "pig" incident noted in Matt 8:28-34) -- is #G1140 -- Daimonion -- meaning "deity or god"...

There is only ONE DEITY -- that being -- YHVH, and His CHILDREN which emerge FROM Him, are named BY HIM as "gods" -- Psalm 82:6 -- As I noted, there is only ONE GOD... however, those who are His OFFSPRING are of the same essence as Himself...

That we are descendent of the ALMIGHTY (His "offspring") means that there is power in our experience which has NO LIMIT.   This is what FAITH is... If one BELIEVES in DEMONS, then one is INVESTING POWER in that thinking and manifestations (such as "demons") can arise from that misused "power"...

IOW -- men "create" the concept of "satan" and "devils" as sentient beings, which were once "angelic", of God's Holy ANGELS... which is a LIE.  Giving these non-existent "beings" -- life -- within their FAITH... FAITH is a powerful thing.

It is a scientific fact that "believing" brings things into existence... For instance, Psychosomatic symptoms... ONE can "believe" him/herself sick, and the symptoms of that sickness become reality.

If one is truly a BELIEVER in GOD, one thereby places FAITH IN HIM, that can AFFECT (from the Supernatural Heavenly realm), the NATURAL realm in which we live...  :dontknow:  For the prayer of FAITH, calls upon the POWER within it, given by GOD... Misuse of this power occurs CONTINUALLY.

Christianity likes to point its finger at the Secular community or other religions, and think that "satanic" manifestations are coming against them because these lack FAITH, ...Failing to recognize that the source of these "manifestations" whether in or out of the "church" realm, is coming from within humans themselves! --  It is the employment of MISPLACED FAITH, which brings these "manifestations" into ANY given reality. (in church or outside it)

One last thing about the ANGELS of God, sis...

When CHRIST returns, it is noted that He shall be accompanied by ALL the HOLY ANGELS (not ONE of them is missing! For ALL means ALL) -- Matt 25:31

Quote from: natcat86 on November 29, 2009, 10:00:23 PMI dont really agree or disagree with anyone on this matter as I haven't really made my mind up based on the facts yet, so thanks for sharing!

Nat

No worries...

We're all on a journey Nat... Glad that you have decided to join us within yours...  :cloud9:

What about the angel of death involving Moses.

And IMO, I know that very few words have one meaning in the KJV and Angel is one of them...

Angel= a mail system of the master,

          or a message delivery system of the master

            or a messenger of good news or bad...

so angels=messengers of "their" master, good or bad. Peroid. All Are Gods Creation... Lee Damboise

 

  Good  post Wilie ! and

     Thank God satan has an end  !!


  the Lord Jesus  shows us this   chapter in  Mark 3 


in strongs  they give  discriptive definitions  and  satan  here is Strong's G4567 - Satanas    used  36 times  in the  new testament   from   root word Of Aramaic origin corresponding to Σατάν (G4566) (with the definite affix) used once in 2Cr 12:7
messenger of satan to buffet Paul ..
both have the same descriptive  definitions  for the name satan .


1) adversary (one who opposes another in purpose or act), the name given to

a) the prince of evil spirits, the inveterate adversary of God and Christ

1) he incites apostasy from God and to sin

2) circumventing men by his wiles

3) the worshippers of idols are said to be under his control

4) by his demons he is able to take possession of men and inflict them with diseases

5) by God's assistance he is overcome

6) on Christ's return from heaven he will be bound with chains for a thousand years, but when the thousand years are finished he will walk the earth in yet greater power, but shortly after will be given over to eternal punishment

b) a Satan-like man



  Now I was thrilled when reading this  the other day,  wow that is awesome !!  I personally love using the  scriptures   they do the testifying to me and  we can witness to them  , testify to them as being true  and very helpful when seeking answers from the Lord  and His Holy Spirit

  for me this whole  gathered verses  tell us  that when Jesus come to heal us  , it is from  satans /adversity  ''hold and control on any mans  mind / heart ''  freeing him/ her to SERVE THE LORD ..

  We know Paul spoke of having the  law  working in his new  mind of Christ in Romans  7  and how the law of sin was still working in his  members    the rest of his   mortal body /earth
  that helps  us to see  that when satan is cast out of heaven  / heaven opened  with the new mind of Christ  , how Paul goes on to explain in Romans 8   how death   in his body was  still  working  under the law of sin  and how satan'' still accuses ''  us through   this law of sin in the   rest of  his members , making the body as good as DEAD working  though faith like Abrahams children ...    Paul  shows us the effects  in his personal struggles
 
and Here  in Mark 3 we can see How Jesus comes and opens  the mind freeing  us  the start of salvation in every  one who believes   Jesus is the Christ by the Fathers gift of great grace ..   Jesus  being within us our new minds we can now overcome  sin and death   because satan has an end   


Mar 3:26   And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. 
 
  had to look up END and since the  question is
Does Satan believe know about UR?    and this goes with the  context of the   started thread 

END  telos  Strong's G5056 - telos
From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

1) end

a) termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)

b) the end

1) the last in any succession or series

2) eternal

c) that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue

d) the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
2) toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods) Mar 3:1 Again he entered the synagogue, and a man was there who had a withered hand. 

Mar 3:2 And they watched him, to see whether he would heal him on the sabbath, so that they might accuse him. 


Mar 3:3 And he said to the man who had the withered hand, "Come here." 


Mar 3:4 And he said to them, "Is it lawful on the sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to kill?" But they were silent. 

Mar 3:5 And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart,  and said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was restored. 


Mar 3:6 The Pharisees went out, and immediately held counsel with the Hero'di-ans against him, how to destroy him. 


Mar 3:7 Jesus withdrew with his disciples to the sea, and a great multitude from Galilee followed; also from Judea 


Mar 3:8 and Jerusalem and Idume'a and from beyond the Jordan and from about Tyre and Sidon a great multitude, hearing all that he did, came to him. 


remember it is the  Fathers drawing them by this gift of grace  to His Son Jesus  Christ

Mar 3:9 And he told his disciples to have a boat ready for him because of the crowd, lest they should crush him; 


Mar 3:10 for he had healed many, so that all who had diseases pressed upon him to touch him. 


Mar 3:11 And whenever the unclean spirits beheld him, they fell down before him and cried out, "You are the Son of God." 


Mar 3:12 And he strictly ordered them not to make him known. 


Mar 3:13 And he went up on the mountain, and called to him those whom he desired; and they came to him. 


Mar 3:14 And he appointed twelve, to be with him, and to be sent out to preach 
   notice it was the preaching  that would clean the unclean spirits  in mankind  and the authority/ grace of God  that would   remove  them out of their minds / hearts


Mar 3:15 and have authority to cast out demons: 


Mar 3:16 Simon whom he surnamed Peter; 


Mar 3:17 James the son of Zeb'edee and John the brother of James, whom he surnamed Bo-aner'ges, that is, sons of thunder; 


Mar 3:18 Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean, 


Mar 3:19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. Then he went home; 


Mar 3:20 and the crowd came together again, so that they could not even eat. 

Mar 3:21 And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, "He is beside himself." 


Mar 3:22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Be-el'zebul, and by the prince of demons he casts out the demons." 

suspicious minds always,  always call the things of God from the devil , you ever notice that kind of fear working in so many religious  types ? :dontknow:

Mar 3:23 And he called them to him, and said to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan? 

Mar 3:24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 

NOW this is awesome ,  think about this satan was   in the  position to  STAND   by those opposing   the Word of God / Jesus Christ

  but now they stand  in the WORD OF GOD  and satans end has come  they now have a clean mind/ heart conscience .....

to stand is Strong's G2476 - histēmi A prolonged form of a primary stao {stah'-o} (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses)


1) to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

a) to bid to stand by, [set up]

1) in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges, before members of the Sanhedrin;

2) to place

b) to make firm, fix establish

1) to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place

2) to stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape in safety

3) to establish a thing, cause it to stand

a) to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything

c) to set or place in a balance
1) to weigh: money to one (because in very early times before the introduction of coinage, the metals used to be weighed)

2) to stand

a) to stand by or near

1) to stop, stand still, to stand immovable, stand firm

a) of the foundation of a building

b) to stand

1) continue safe and sound, stand unharmed, to stand ready or prepared

2) to be of a steadfast mind

3) of quality, one who does not hesitate, does not waiver



Mar 3:25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 

Mar 3:26 And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming  to an end. 

  woo hooo!!!! no more standing in the Holy Place  Gods throne within your heart

Mar 3:27 But no one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man; then indeed he may plunder his house. 

Mar 3:28 "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 
Mar 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"-- 

Mar 3:30 for they had said, "He has an unclean spirit." 

its the religious that doubts Gods authority , that fearful and unbelieving

cannot  seem to Let the Lord do His perfect work in them .. 

makes you wonder now

willieH: Hi lee  :cloud9:

Quote from: Lee Damboise on December 05, 2009, 01:18:05 PM
What about the angel of death involving Moses.

We all meet death, Lee...  And all "messages" from GOD will not be percieved as GOOD, for instance, ...the "FLOOD message" to Noah... However, it is OUR PERCEPTION of the message that notes it either GOOD or BAD...

DEATH is a precious thing to GOD, even though we do not look forward to it, HE DOES -- Psalm 116:15 -- I am sure in the case of Moses, after such a great life of service, that GOD held the death of Moses in high esteem...  The "angel" of death is delivering TRUTH... for when a communication comes from GOD it always bears TRUTH...

The BIG difference is that MEN percieve that there are UNHOLY ANGELS which fell from HOLINESS... Which is where tradition "gets off the track" and makes of NONE EFFECT, the WORDS of God (in their circumstance)... That which negatively affects the receiving of GOD's WORDS which are ALWAYS TRUTH... is the "tradition" of LIES -- Matt 15:6-9 -- Mark 7:7-13

The adversity in man is NATURAL and comes BEFORE the SPIRITUAL -- 1 Cor 15:46 -- MAN is that in which TRADITION lives, and IT [tradition that notes ADVERSITY to TRUTH/God] must DIE.

Quote from: Lee Damboise on December 05, 2009, 01:18:05 PMAnd IMO, I know that very few words have one meaning in the KJV and Angel is one of them...

You are welcome to disagree, but here is my  :2c: about "ANGELS":

Well, I agree that the word ANGEL in the NT [AGGELOS] means messenger in either case, ...however -- the word ANGEL is applicable to both PHYSICAL men and SPIRITUAL beings (both able to be "messengers")...

In either case a message is delivered... but from which source does the message emerge?  It is the ORIGIN of the "NEWS" that determines the nature of the message... MAN is by NATURE, in opposition [imperfect] to HOLINESS.  Holiness signifies a PERFECT state... PURE and COMPLETE... something PURE or COMPLETE needs nothing ADDED or SUBTRACTED, for it is ALREADY in a PURE state which requires neither.

So any message or messenger which does not COMPLETELY emerge from GOD, it is therefore, defiled by its lack.

To note that there are UNHOLY [impure or incomplete] messengers which emerge from GOD, is an oxy-moron... "dark-light" -- "empty-fullness"...

Also the implication that there was a "REBELLION" to the authority of God, is also of the same origin -- which is LIES... for this means that POWER was enlisted to OBJECT to GOD, which did not originate FROM HIM...  :thumbdown:

The Scriptures plainly note that ALL POWER is of GOD -- Rom 13:1 -- as well as that a Kingdom DIVIDED against itself, shall not stand -- so if GOD was either,

(1) challenged by something which HE did not decide (rebellion) or,
(2) decided (via His own plan) to DIVIDE His Kingdom (by creating HOLY ANGELS (which He KNEW and DECIDED), would became of themselves, "devils" bringing AGAINST HIM -- "UNHOLY messages")...

These must be seen as contradictions to HIS WORD:

Matt 12:25 -- ...EVERY KINGDOM DIVIDED ...against itself... is brought to desolation, and every city or house DIVIDED ...against itself... shall NOT STAND

Mark 3:24 -- and if a KINGDOM be DIVIDED ...against itself... that KINGDOM ...cannot stand.

So God would be doing the opposite of what He SAYS in HIS WORD... :mnah:

Quote from: Lee Damboise on December 05, 2009, 01:18:05 PMAngel= a mail system of the master,

          or a message delivery system of the master

            or a messenger of good news or bad...

I don't disagree with this... with the exception that "NEWS" received is a matter of PERCEPTION.  If the NEWS comes from GOD it is GOOD NEWS which comes from a GOOD source... however... if the NEWS is born of TRADITION, it is BAD NEWS for its source is contaminated, coming from a BAD source.

This does not mean that NEWS which is percieved as BAD, ...is necessarily BAD of itself... the SOURCE which conveys it, is that which is "BAD"...

You and I might think the declaration of DEATH is "BAD"... for we cling to LIFE, as LIFE is GOOD... but in order for our LIFE to become COMPLETE and PURE, it must 1st DIE to ITSELF... and then LIVE for GOD...

So the "death" which, in our NATURAL and UNSPIRITUAL state we percieve as BAD, ...is actually for our GOOD. :nod: :myahoo:

Tradition shall DIE with ALL the rest [heaven and earth=mind and body of man] that CHRIST said would PASS AWAY -- Luke 21:33 -- but the NEWS in which GOOD was/is found in the COMMAND and WORD of YHVH God, shall NEVER PASS AWAY...

Quote from: Lee Damboise on December 05, 2009, 01:18:05 PMso angels=messengers of "their" master, good or bad. Peroid. All Are Gods Creation... Lee Damboise

GOD intends on both GOOD and BAD NEWS to appear in this scenario... as the LIVING KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL are portrayed within it.  :dontknow:

Here are the 2 "messages" Christianity brings to the WORLD that GOD so LOVES:

One "message" is of and from -- MAN, and produces DEFEAT, SORROW and DEATH... :pitiful:

One "message" is of and from -- GOD, and produces VICTORY, JOY and LIFE...  :reachout:

We must each pick the one we shall listen to, and repeat to others...  :dontknow:

:Peace:

If God's word is God breathed, then if a member of todays people try to live by the law of moses, then he is following a system of good news delivered to Israel for the times back then, trying to misplace the law for today, inwhich he is living in "death" as his only out come.

ok , this don't sound right, so what i will say is, Plain and simple

IF I stand in any Baptist Church the "messenger" at the pulpit, (minister) will be preaching a message of DEATH. Bad News....

this IS a messenger of Death....
No matter how you want to think about it, it is...

If you can't raise the dead by the words you say, then your a messenger of death....

Lee

Quote from: Lee Damboise on December 05, 2009, 11:31:31 PMIF I stand in any Baptist Church the "messenger" at the pulpit, (minister) will be preaching a message of DEATH. Bad News....

this IS a messenger of Death....
No matter how you want to think about it, it is...

If you can't raise the dead by the words you say, then your a messenger of death....

I agree... and spent 25yrs witnessing such "dead" sermons... which never set well with me... and actually DROVE me to the TRUTH!  :myahoo:

However, it must be said that along with the message of LIFE, ...the WORD itself is a message conveying the necessity of DEATH... If DEATH were not necessary, and was UNREASONABLE,  then it would not exist.

DEATH is a means which is used to expose LIFE --- showing LIFE for what it IS!  ...as the Scripture notes that the seed must die and be inserted in the ground in order for LIFE to come forth...

DEATH of SELF is necessary to bring forth, LIFE in GOD...

Ok, Think this one through:

ALL was Born Dead, IN Adam( Clay , earth ,etc...) buried in the ground.


All Was (past tense ) Made alive, vivified, brought dragged and kicking into Life immortal...

no rapture lie, no lake of fire, no jewish games, etc...


No conditions, no alter calls, no bull dung

I am glad i am not superstitious, Post # 66 above

Good night Ya all. Lee

willieH: Hi Lee...  :icon_king:

Very philosophical post, Lee...  :happygrin:

Quote from: Lee Damboise on December 06, 2009, 03:05:55 AM
Ok, Think this one through:

ALL was Born Dead, IN Adam( Clay , earth ,etc...) buried in the ground.

JC Rose From the dead AND

All Was (past tense ) Made alive, vivified, brought dragged and kicking into Life immortal...

no rapture lie, no lake of fire, no jewish games, etc...

NO    SIN   IN ALL THINGS

No conditions, no alter calls, no bull dung

Okay... now THINK on this:

FIRST -- that the WORD notes that there IS a LAKE of FIRE... means there IS a "Lake of FIRE", for the WORD of YHVH bears TRUTH only, irregardless of any MAN, agreeing or disagreeing with Its content.

SECOND -- That LIFE and DEATH are both presented in the WORD makes them BOTH factually TRUE, for the very same reason...

The observation of them does not establish them, nor does it remove them.

You are welcome to observe as you do... but DEATH and LIFE are coinciding elements of EVIL and GOOD... which IS the KNOWLEDGE of GOD...

Evil and Good are byproducts of the tree it grows of, the other part of that tree in the garden is the tree of Life.

IF you come to the knowledge that we were planted in the earth, it (we ) did die, then the only Life is IN the reserrection of God's Only B Son,(forfillment of promises to all) His Anointed.

Once we understand that all death is done and over and that the spirit will be forever, you/I can live in rest now in this life, this flesh, this flesh of God that WE ARE ALL A PART OF, All are a part of God, and there is not death in HIM