Some denominations have made claims that only through fear can one come to righteousness.
One guy on Yahoo Answers said that the Torments of hell were enough to keep him in line. But this guy had to be one of the most unloving people I had ever met. They seem like they just follow rules to keep themselves out of hell, and completely lack any form of true love.
Does it seem pretty disturbing that the only reason some people behave is just out of fear of hell?
"Perfect love casts out all Fear". Okay, not sure what scripture this is based on.
:cloud9: Exactly. It's called "fire insurance". And it's one of the worst reasons to follow the Lord I can think of. Totally selfish and the fruit of that shows. Blessings....
I read that Mother Theresa was interviewed and asked why she devoted her life to helping the poor. She answered that if she didn't, she risked going to hell.
Might explain why she had no joy in her life in spite of helping thousands of people. She admitted this herself.
Quote from: Universalist Catholic on February 01, 2010, 06:52:30 AM
Some denominations have made claims that only through fear can one come to righteousness.
One guy on Yahoo Answers said that the Torments of hell were enough to keep him in line. But this guy had to be one of the most unloving people I had ever met. They seem like they just follow rules to keep themselves out of hell, and completely lack any form of true love.
Does it seem pretty disturbing that the only reason some people behave is just out of fear of hell?
"Perfect love casts out all Fear". Okay, not sure what scripture this is based on.
No it doesn't, in fact it had the opposite effect on me, when I saw the Bill Weise video I though how could a loving God have preplanned such a horrible fate for most of mankind (surely He must have known, he didn't have to create anyone)
I realized I wasn't a christian about 6 months ago, although my results on beliefnet may indicate otherwise
The reason, I abhor and detest that doctrine with every fiber of my being and could never justify it, furthermore I've become more convinced that there is no such thing as an all loving God, the christians you spoke about have made sure of that, and they are the exact way you describe = self centred, self absorbed and narcissistic to the core
I don't mind the doctrine of annihilation, at least one isn't forced to live forever if they don't want to, and fortunately the arguments for annihilation seem far stronger than ET
But I'm like you...however hard I try...I just can't get over the fear that ET may be right
The frightening thing is the pillars of the hell doctrine can be disproved easier than the place itself :dontknow:
Quote from: Zero7 on February 01, 2010, 11:42:18 PM
I read that Mother Theresa was interviewed and asked why she devoted her life to helping the poor. She answered that if she didn't, she risked going to hell.
Might explain why she had no joy in her life in spite of helping thousands of people. She admitted this herself.
Somehow, I doubt that her answers were not given — tongue in cheek. Not a lie, you see, an exaggeration to be understood by the responsive.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on February 01, 2010, 11:56:08 PM
Quote from: Zero7 on February 01, 2010, 11:42:18 PM
I read that Mother Theresa was interviewed and asked why she devoted her life to helping the poor. She answered that if she didn't, she risked going to hell.
Might explain why she had no joy in her life in spite of helping thousands of people. She admitted this herself.
Somehow, I doubt that her answers were not given — tongue in cheek. Not a lie, you see, an exaggeration to be understood by the responsive.
Im a little confused, could you explain?
hi universalist catholic,
Funnily enough, before i used to be frightened of hell, now i think about karma and not making it bad as i know it will come back on me.
Now you may be thinking, what is a christian thinking about an eastern philosophy like karma. Well i believe Christ taught that what you give out, will come back (reaping what you sow) and it certainly seems to be real in my life. Mind you i am not terrified of it as i used to be with hell.
Also before anyone tells me that only faith in Christ will save you, i'm not so sure anymore. Doesn't st. Paul talk about carrying your own salvation into effect? My faith is changing or evolving all the time, so is it wrong to believe something just because the majority believe it!
Godbless
Nancy
"Charbroiled leaves many thirsty; nothing but dry soil."
peacemaker
I think history has shown that the opposite is true
have universalists ever persecuted anybody?
the Catholic church on the other hand slaugthered Christians for centurires
Quote from: Zero7 on February 01, 2010, 11:42:18 PM
I read that Mother Theresa was interviewed and asked why she devoted her life to helping the poor. She answered that if she didn't, she risked going to hell.
Might explain why she had no joy in her life in spite of helping thousands of people. She admitted this herself.
Goodness, that is so sad! I totally would not have expected that from Mother Theresa. I am relieved though that she will be having joy with Jesus now.
I don't believe fear comes from God. Fear comes from the devil. Jesus came to
set the captives free, so how does that make any sense if God is also intentionally forcing us to follow Him by giving us the fear of an eternal place of torment?
Also, forced love or righteousness is not love or righteousness at all. Loving people and loving Jesus because "I have to or I'll go to hell" is not really loving anyone except yourself.
Living in fear is not freeing.
Quote from: Universalist Catholic on February 01, 2010, 06:52:30 AMOne guy on Yahoo Answers said that the Torments of hell were enough to keep him in line. But this guy had to be one of the most unloving people I had ever met. They seem like they just follow rules to keep themselves out of hell, and completely lack any form of true love.
Difficult to have a true new birth of love in one's heart when one is a hostage. A truly edifying presentation of UR to someone in the eternal separation paradigm is called everywhere else in life "hostage negotiations," which doesn't work as a google define: term, but is a fascinating google search nonetheless as you think through many movies or television programs you've likely seen that included at least a brief scene of it. But sharing this message of the never failing,
inescapable, love of God is 2Corinthians 10
at it's best, though sadly
it often feels like a Mars Hill sermon TO CHRISTIANS. :sigh: :dontknow:
Quote from: Universalist Catholic on February 01, 2010, 06:52:30 AM
Some denominations have made claims that only through fear can one come to righteousness.
One guy on Yahoo Answers said that the Torments of hell were enough to keep him in line. But this guy had to be one of the most unloving people I had ever met. They seem like they just follow rules to keep themselves out of hell, and completely lack any form of true love.
Does it seem pretty disturbing that the only reason some people behave is just out of fear of hell?
"Perfect love casts out all Fear". Okay, not sure what scripture this is based on.
The statement "Only through fear can one come to righteousness" does not need anything but scripture to refute, there is no scripture that states any such thing, in fact it states that through suffering we obtain righteousness including Jesus.
However, fear is a human emotion and it has it's place, There can be a proper transition from babes to maturity involving fear.
As parents we rightly instill fear into children for the things that they have no ability to discern or understand, as adults they can reason the manner in which they will abstain from doing the same things for a more substantial reason.'