Tentmaker Forum

The question of all questions is essentially this: can evil finally triumph over Good?

If evil ultimately triumphs

If we answer affirmatively with the popular creed of unending evil and sin, we are practically falling into dualism; if we reply negatively, we are teaching the Restitution of all things. The Calvinist settled the question by, in fact, affirming that if evil triumphs it is because God so orders, that is, because God decrees to evil an eternal existence; thus saving or trying to save God's omnipotence, but at no less a cost than that of blackening His character, yes, of virtually making Him a partner in evil.

God Satisfied With Endless Disobedience?

But the popular creed of despair and unending curse saves neither the omnipotence of God, nor yet preserves His character. Sin, the one thing most utterly hateful in His sight, He tolerates forever and ever, poisoning and defiling His works, and defying His power--satisfied, if in this brief life He cannot have obedience and righteousness--satisfied with endless disobedience and sin hereafter.

A Baffled Saviour A Victorious Devil?

He appears before all creation as trying to dislodge sin, only to fail; as sending His divine Son to save all men in order that He may return rejected, baffled, vanquished. And so the curtain falls on the great drama of creation and redemption, presenting such a picture as this- a baffled Saviour, a victorious devil, a ruined creation, sin triumphant- and so to continue forever- a heaven wholly base, a hell wholly miserable.

God's Essence

Strong as these words are, they are not strong enough, for the horrors and the contradictions of the popular creed alike defy description. And these horrors are taught, these contradictions are believed in the face of the plainest teaching of God's two revelations, His primary revelation to our moral sense, His written revelation in Holy Scripture. From the first page to the last the Bible is the story on one who is our Father- one whose 'wrath', and 'fire', and 'judgement', are at once most real, and yet one and all are the expressions of that essential LOVE which He is- One who being Almighty is sending His Son to assured victory, to reconcile to Himself all things, 'whatsover and wheresoever they be.'

Vain Attempts

I know how eagerly men strive to save the popular creed, by diminishing the number of the lost, by softening their torments, by asserting their annihilation, etc. What are all these but to many tacit confessions that men everywhere feel it impossible to maintain  the creed still generally professed? What are they but in fact so many vain attempts to disguise the awful fact of God's defeat, to hide if it may be the victory of the evil one? For so long as sin lingers in a single heart, so long as a single child of the Great Parent perishes eternally, whether annihilated, or sent to hell, so long is the Cross a failure, and the devil practically victor.

Christ Triumphant

HERE (http://www.tlchrist.info/tallin.htm)   

And HERE (http://www.totlogcon.com/filealin.htm)

And HERE (http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm)

If ET were real, this would be Jesus  :mshock: or :faint:

Blessings

There is no help out of this trouble in orthodoxy. In regard to this subject orthodoxy is hopelessly contradictory and utterly absurd. Thus it speaks:

QuoteIt was not in God's original plan that evil should exist, but evil has come into existence and done incalculable harm; yet God's plans cannot be thwarted nor disarranged in the least, because he is all-wise and almighty. Evil being in existence before man was created, God allows it to come into contact with the man He created when He might have prevented it, knowing full well what the result would be; yet He is in no wise responsible for the consequences of evil. In fact, it is blasphemy to entertain any such idea. Evil having come into existence contrary to God's will, he cannot put it out of existence, but it will continue as long as he exists, an eternal blot on His otherwise perfect universe and a perpetual offense unto all the purified; yet His will is absolute and sovereign and the redeemed will be perfectly happy. Thus, God is in no wise responsible for either the origin, existence, consequences or continuance of evil; yet He can have everything as He pleases, and is the Creator of all things.

And so Orthodoxy goes on, stultifying common sense, throttling human reason, and stupidly expecting that intelligent, thoughtful men and women will accept its idiotic patter as the infallible utterances of divine inspiration. Cannot everyone see that the entire orthodox view is contradictory and absurd in the extreme, and hence self-destructive and untenable?

The Purpose Of Evil

http://members.aol.com/JAntonsson/evil/evil.html

And HERE (http://home.att.net/~spiritword/Adams/adam_1.htm)

Now I hold that the following proposition is self-evident. Given a God of infinite power, wisdom and goodness, He is responsible for ALL things that exist. And this also follows from the wisdom and goodness of God: All things that exist are for an intelligent and benevolent end. These conclusions are inevitable from the premises; they cannot be modified except by modifying the premises. For instance, if you say that some things exist contrary to God's will, then it follows that God is not all-powerful; and you cannot escape this conclusion by bringing in the orthodox doctrine of man's free moral agency, for whatever a free moral agent may do, He is responsible for it who made him a free moral agent. If God made man a free moral agent, He knew beforehand what the result would be, and hence is just as responsible for the consequences of the acts of that free moral agent as He would be for the act of an irresponsible machine that He had made.

-Vladimir M. Gelesnoff-

"The current Evangelical Theology involves in its system belief in the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and permanence of evil. That though there was a time in the history of the universe when sin in any shape or form did not exist, when no cry of pain or sense of guilt darkened the all-extensive bliss and holiness of creation, yet since sin has once effected an entrance into such a scene, it has come in never to go out again, indestructible, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Absolute happiness and sinlessness have forever vanished like the phantom of a dream. The 'eternal state' is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, eternally sinful, vile and morally hideous. It pictures the "final perfection" yet to be attained as having room for a vast cesspool of immoral and degraded beings, continually existing in opposition to God."  

 :thumbsup: Good stuff! Once one grasps that ET becomes truly inaccaptable.