Tentmaker Forum

We understand that most people will have to endure some after death Purgation.  But I have always wondered if everyone necessarily endures the same amount or as harsh of Judgment.  It seems like there are people who are just in need of minor chastisements, maybe not having accepted Christ, but need to do some relearning and abandoning old beliefs.  However there are also those, who wont be forgiven in the next age, most likely sounds like they had to be pretty dogmatically stubborn to believe that Jesus was performing good works by the power of the Devil. 

Not sure I can agree wholly on the premise that there is a judgment following death.  Not in the general sense of what judgment is to most anyway.  It still implies that the cross isn't enough.  We still need to go through some sort of payment plan as well. 

I'm not sure I can embrace that way of thinking.  I know logically, people who do really bad things should be dealt with on harsher terms than people who didn't do bad things, but who also didn't enter into the goodness things either.  But that's my logic which is what bothers me . . .my logic is extremely limited to the endless grace given to man through the redemptive power and authority of the cross.

If I belived in UR and not U recon, then I'd say that people who are ashamed of their sins would hide in hades for longer than those who simply need a blood atonment for missing the mark. Some people such as those in other religions would no doubt welcome the light of Jesus Christ much more than those who prefer a ungodly lifestyle, a mass murderer might want to hide from Christs rightoeusness for a long time, for their shame would be much. So I think it depends on the people to come to God, rather than God come to them.

Quote from: thinktank on July 22, 2010, 07:16:02 PMIf I belived in UR and not U recon,

Can you explain me the difference?

QuoteSome people such as those in other religions would no doubt welcome the light of Jesus Christ much more than those who prefer a ungodly lifestyle,

Some have such a lifestyle because they don't know God.

Quotea mass murderer might want to hide from Christs rightoeusness for a long time,

Saul didn't.

Quotefor their shame would be much.

Isn't shame a sign you see your wrongs? I would say they hide because they still feel the did the right thing.

QuoteSo I think it depends on the people to come to God, rather than God come to them.

You will be judged like you judged others.

Quote from: WhiteWings on July 22, 2010, 07:27:31 PM

Quote from: thinktank on July 22, 2010, 07:16:02 PMIf I belived in UR and not U recon,

Can you explain me the difference?

QuoteSome people such as those in other religions would no doubt welcome the light of Jesus Christ much more than those who prefer a ungodly lifestyle,

Some have such a lifestyle because they don't know God.

Quotea mass murderer might want to hide from Christs rightoeusness for a long time,

Saul didn't.

Quotefor their shame would be much.

Isn't shame a sign you see your wrongs? I would say they hide because they still feel the did the right thing.

QuoteSo I think it depends on the people to come to God, rather than God come to them.

You will be judged like you judged others.

The difference is tough, because im not sure what the main belief is, there is little information out there concerning Universal reconciliation. But from my own view and from what I have read, it is similar to UR, except that all people are given a choice between sin and God and will be given more than one lifetime to make this important decision.

Also I am open to the possibility of UR, so I know what I would belive if I did.


Some have a lifestyle because they didn't know God, as such was some of us, but we have ben washed clean, but a lot of us struggle throughout our lives with temptation. Will temptation cease after death for people who don't know Christ in UR? How does it work?

I'm not judging anybody, that's why I said it's up to them, what happens between them and God, the same way in which christians like you and me, have arguments with God, now. Some universalists say that people will remain in hell until they repent and come to the light, while others say, that they will have a Saul like experience.

Here is the defenition of the site owner: http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/universalism-refuted.htm

Quote from: Nathan on July 22, 2010, 05:00:59 PM
Not sure I can agree wholly on the premise that there is a judgment following death.  Not in the general sense of what judgment is to most anyway.  It still implies that the cross isn't enough.  We still need to go through some sort of payment plan as well. 

I'm not sure I can embrace that way of thinking.  I know logically, people who do really bad things should be dealt with on harsher terms than people who didn't do bad things, but who also didn't enter into the goodness things either.  But that's my logic which is what bothers me . . .my logic is extremely limited to the endless grace given to man through the redemptive power and authority of the cross.

Heb 9:27  and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this--judgment,

willieH: Hi UC...  :cloud9:

I find myself in agreement with Nathan, brother... The "payment" has been made, and is completely [perfectly] sufficient.  That we shall face the total of ourselves is the giving of account... but no further sufferings are due... rather the changing of the portions of the heart into alignment with that which is PERFECT, and which are yet unchanged, is the purpose of the "account" -- Isaiah 26:9

but I do have a question or 2:

Quote from: Universalist Catholic on July 22, 2010, 07:40:00 AM
We understand that most people will have to endure some after death Purgation.

What is "purgation"?  And where is "purgation" mentioned in the WORD as associated with men? :dunno:

Quote from: Universalist Catholic on July 22, 2010, 07:40:00 AMBut I have always wondered if everyone necessarily endures the same amount or as harsh of Judgment.  It seems like there are people who are just in need of minor chastisements, maybe not having accepted Christ, but need to do some relearning and abandoning old beliefs.

GOD is impartial to ALL men... So His "judgment" is not contrary to them, rather, it is purposed to GLORIFY... and reveal RIGHTEOUSNESS... It is not a Divinely yielded weapon of VENGENCE... for where SIN abounded, GRACE did ...MUCH MORE... abound -- Rom 5:20

We are not judged on what we "believe"... it is our works (doings) which are "judged" -- 1 Cor 3:11-15 -- We cannot even "believe" in CHRIST, unless HE authors that "belief", keeps it intact, and finishes it -- Heb 12:2 -- Jude 24 -- 1 Cor 12:3

Quote from: Universalist Catholic on July 22, 2010, 07:40:00 AMHowever there are also those, who wont be forgiven in the next age, most likely sounds like they had to be pretty dogmatically stubborn to believe that Jesus was performing good works by the power of the Devil. 

Again, I do not find any basis for this conjecture.  CHRIST said "it is FINISHED"... What do you think He meant by that, UC?

The WORD testifies that NO RECORD of SIN is kept -- 2 Cor 5:19 -- Psalm 130:3 -- So if a "record" of SIN is presented against any... then these Scriptures are UNTRUTHFUL and COMPROMISED.

The "judgment" of SIN has already been PERFECTLY dealt with.  The only thing left is each of us "giving account" (facing the TRUTH in every area of our doings), and dispersing via facing any shame or spared by the covering of CHRIST -- Rev 3:18 -- that which God states as "against us" (see context of Rev 2-3 -- the SYMBOLISM of the 7 chURches... is pointed toward ALL, for this book is the REVEALING of the WORD...

We are living the KNOWLEDGE of G & E... which GOD decided that we should -- Isaiah 46:10-11 -- via His DECLARATION (which His WORD made) of this realm!

In the end, those chosen to LIVE in the deeds of GOOD were chosen beforehand to do so (within that "declaration") -- Eph 2:10 -- and those not, were not chosen to do so (also within that "declaration")...  Thus the deeds of EVIL are also LIVED... displaying forever BOTH... that all might KNOW the acceptability within LIFE of one (GOOD) and the unacceptability in LIFE of the other (EVIL)...  :dontknow: