Tentmaker Forum

Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation => Discussions on Universal Salvation => Topic started by: VineBranch on February 04, 2013, 01:41:49 AM

Title: Dispensationalism
Post by: VineBranch on February 04, 2013, 01:41:49 AM
You Guys know anything about dispensationalism?  Does it affect UR at all?
Title: Re: Dispensationalism
Post by: jabcat on February 04, 2013, 01:52:15 AM
Oh man, there's been some hot old times in the town about dispensationalism.   :heat:

Some seem to have some of their understanding reconciled with some of the dispensationalism teachings.  Just like probably all of us share the belief with Mormons that Jesus walked the earth in the flesh.  So IMO, having some views about God not being done yet with national Israel, that God has had different types of dealings with mankind in different ages ("dispensations", etc.), doesn't necessarily make one a "dispensationalist" in a pure, labeled sense of the word.  I personally share those stated beliefs, but I'm neither a Mormon or consider myself a "dispensationalist".

There apparently is a sort of set, systematic theology, that in its strictest sense might be accurately labeled dispensationalism.  They get into some pretty detailed, organized belief systems - which someone else is probably better qualified to address than myself.

It also seems it makes some folks' skin crawl, and many reject most things about it.  However, as noted above, if we're honest, I believe many of us actually share some of the same views with about every sect/division of Christianity - while rejecting (or not fully accepting/believing/understanding) others.   :2c:

So as far as UR, I personally don't think sharing some of the same views as "dispensationalists" is contraindicated. 
Title: Re: Dispensationalism
Post by: VineBranch on February 04, 2013, 03:23:10 AM
Thanks Jab.

I've been reading some of their stuff.  I like the notion of context which seems to be inherent in their belief.  I think times (plural) are contexts.  I think understanding changes with time.

I'm not at all sure about God dealing differently with folk depending on when he has them being born though.  That sounds a bit too much like a kid playing with a toy:   when he gets bored he just invents a new game and makes new toys to go along with it.

I could be wrong though.  To me God just seems friendlier than that.  When I say "Hey dad, I love you, thanks", I know he smiles at me, cause, frankly, I'm his kid.  If Joshua or Caleb were to say the same thing, I would hope God would have the same smile for them.  That he wouldn't withdraw his 'dad-ness' just because it's a diffent time and place.
Title: Re: Dispensationalism
Post by: jabcat on February 04, 2013, 03:52:02 AM
:)  Just one quick example of what I mean by the ages (dispensations) and God's dealings - the Law, the cross.  The Law as tutor and taskmaster, the cross as liberator.  And I believe then there are hundreds of sub-topics and events related to that.  But as with most things, 10 people can look at the same thing and see some things different about it, while also seeing many things the same, while calling them different names/terms.   :bigGrin:  So anyway, some things I think about.
Title: Re: Dispensationalism
Post by: eaglesway on February 04, 2013, 08:33:17 AM
A UR "dispensationalist" would simply have a "dispensationalist view" about how "all are saved". Someone else may have another view about "how and when", but the two could agree entirely on the final outcome :o)
Title: Re: Dispensationalism
Post by: Captain.Theophilus on February 12, 2013, 06:49:49 AM
The title "dispensationalist" is misleading, because particular dispensations aren't the defining characteristic of the system.

The defining characteristic is bifurcated purposes of God (one purpose for earthly Israel, another purpose for the Church)

To dispensationalists, the Church is just a mystery interjection, or "intercalation" between God's dealings with Israel.

The logical conclusion of this is that the Church, in all its redeemed glory, is merely an "additional" plan of God, but not God's plan for the whole of history.

Dispensationalism splits the Bible right down the middle, and does the same with your theology. It makes about as much sense as believing in a loving God who revels in watching people suffer.
Title: Re: Dispensationalism
Post by: eaglesway on February 12, 2013, 07:00:35 AM
Quote from: Captain.Theophilus on February 12, 2013, 06:49:49 AM
The title "dispensationalist" is misleading, because particular dispensations aren't the defining characteristic of the system.

The defining characteristic is bifurcated purposes of God (one purpose for earthly Israel, another purpose for the Church)

To dispensationalists, the Church is just a mystery interjection, or "intercalation" between God's dealings with Israel.

The logical conclusion of this is that the Church, in all its redeemed glory, is merely an "additional" plan of God, but not God's plan for the whole of history.

Dispensationalism splits the Bible right down the middle, and does the same with your theology. It makes about as much sense as believing in a loving God who revels in watching people suffer.

Yea I agree that the title is misleading, because there are may views o the "dispensatios". It could be said that paul was a dispensationalist.

having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself, in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth--in him;
(Eph 1:9-10)
Title: Re: Dispensationalism
Post by: reFORMer on February 12, 2013, 09:32:06 AM
Quote from: eaglesway on February 04, 2013, 08:33:17 AM
A UR "dispensationalist" would simply have a "dispensationalist view" about how "all are saved". Someone else may have another view about "how and when", but the two could agree entirely on the final outcome :o)

A. E. Knoch, the translator of the Concordant Literal N.T. was an dispensationalist, rather an ultra-dispensationalist.  In the beginning of the 20th Century he was friends with Bullinger who was definately an ultra-dispensationalist.  They seperated when Knoch began to discover the patterns of meaning in the Greek word "eon(-s,-ian)"

Bullinger's The Companion Bible offers translation helps, appendices, indexes and so on.  Along side the KJV there is a fulsome column of helps.  It has the best outlines, what he calls the structure, of scripture I've ever found anywhere, except for Knoch's, only, Knoch's are incomplete.  Which of them, both or if someone else was responsible, they really got onto something wonderful in their structural analysis of scripture.  In Bullingers books on some area of Holy Writ, such as Revelation or Hebrews 11, he is even more detailed in examining the literary architecture of Scripture.

When it comes to A. E. Knoch however, I esteem him to be one of the top 10 Christians of the 20th Century.  His arguments for the salvation of all could not be gainsaid not resisted by the men of his times.  His translation of the N.T., in German and English, is far ahead of all others in bringing one language into another.

Nevertheless, I loathe dispensationalism.  I like to recover the correct spelling and write it out as:  "dipSINsationalism."  I'm told it may be too racy for tentmaker, so I hope I'll find mercy if it slips out.
Title: Re: Dispensationalism
Post by: eaglesway on February 12, 2013, 08:00:23 PM
Nah, its not too racy, its just a little DipSensationalism ;o)
Title: Re: Dispensationalism
Post by: ded2daworld on February 12, 2013, 08:09:04 PM
WE are the moderators.
WE have control of your screen
WE control the words and images you see
WE control the volume
WE control the subject matter
For the next 30 minutes, WE will control all you see and hear... :laugh:
Was that from One Step Beyond or the Outer Limits TV show?
Pretty sure it was THE OUTER LIMITS - Boo! :eek:
Title: Re: Dispensationalism
Post by: eaglesway on February 13, 2013, 01:11:20 AM
Do not adjust your thinking
There is no problem with your mind
You have simply stumbled into

The Outer Limits