Hi all!
I am new to your wonderful board and I have some questions. If there is a link or thread I need to refer to, please direct me there.
Basically, I am in a position where I was a practicing christian my whole life. At some point in time, I began to question and grew to have a problem with the idea of a loving God sending us to hell for whatever reason.
I found that each denomination thought they were the only ones who were right and I came to believe it was impossible for over 40,000 denominations (forgive me if my numbers are off, but you get the idea) to ALL be right.
So...what was I to do?
What I ended up doing was questioning, which made some christians angry. Some were nice, but most were not receptive to the idea of discussing how I felt about Hell. I felt very rejected.
After more research I became disillisioned and began to think maybe God just didn't exist. After all, there was no solid proof (faith is a belief in things unseen) so I turned eventually to an athiest stance.
Now, let me say, that was not easy for me and I didn't come to that decision lightly. I went through a couple of years of intense questioning and there was much mourning and grief in letting go in the idea of God. I mean, who wants to think there is no heaven either?
So...after completely walking away from Him (which I never thought would happen) I went through a couple of the worst years in my life.
For some reason, I feel God again. Don't ask me how or why. I never thought I'd ever say that again.....
But I do, can't explain it really.
And I look back at my bad period in my life and can't help but to see that He had to have been there for me, even though I rejected Him.
Today, I am looking at strengthing my new relationship with God.
I am not sure where to go or what to do exactly.
What I do know for sure is that the idea of Hell makes me uncomfortable.
I also am having a problem with the OT God...the wrath, vengeful mean God who is supposed to be all loving....
So..here is where I am at.
I am wondering what UR is and if this is the right place for me?
From what I understand so far, UR doesn't believe in hell. (which is great)
What else do I need to know about UR?
I don't understand what else is involved and I have never been exposed to it before.
But for some reaon, I am feeling like so far it is where I need to be....
Can anyone help me with what the general teachings are and what they mean?
And please keep it simple as I am just starting over.
Thanks for your patience and thank you ahead of time if you should respond to my asking of help in this area. Most appreciative.
Hi Freebird,
Tentmaker.org is a great website jam packed with all kinds of info on what ur is. In ur there is conservative views to liberal views. Just like all denoms if you will in christianity there will be divergance of opinions but one thing all Christian Universalists have in common is that ALL men will be saved, that Jesus Christ is the reason all men will be saved.
A great book that I highly recommend when you are first beginning to check into universalism is here http://hopebeyondhell.net/ and is downloadable
You are embarking on the most wonderful journey, getting to know God as a real loving merciful Father without all the ugly masks held up before Him.
God bless
kept
Hello Freebird,
Love your name, love the freedom in HIM and I will tell you, there is NO place of total
freedom except IN HIM. Man will be at every corner trying to bind you up but "He" is just
as He says He is, and that is why you, after two years of your own personal hell, have
been again shown HIS Faithfulness! His faithfulness is like the sun, comes up "every morning." Never fails.
I am not much at explaining UR, just not my particular emphasis, so I leave that part to
those called to do it, but I felt to welcome you here, and introduce myself........
I tell you there is nothing like walking with people who "agree" with you for it says
"How can two walk together unless they be agreed?" Therefore WALK and agree with
God and skip all the rest. ha Let it run off your back like water off a duck! Man! I wish
I'd known what I know now long ago. ha
Freebird
As a newcomer it is normal to seek a replacement theology. I.e. reject ET, adopt UR, end of story.
No it is much deeper than that. In most boards I have posted stickies of articles dealing with different matters and this is for a kick off.
Essentially I can break it down to 4 major things we differ on but it is not as simple as it seems. Most see the No Hell as a draw car and a license to continue a sinful life regardless. That unfortunately is a fundie view who cannot believe all mankind will ultimately be reconciled to God. Here are the 4 major points.
1. No Eternal Torment (ET) aka Hell
2. No Secret Rapture
3. No fallen angels and Lucifer = Satan, fallen angels = demons
4. We cannot save ourselves using our "free-will"
Others may see or say we have more in common than that but this is what all of us here will agree to.
We do not have a creed or a statement of faith. We follow no man, not even Gary, the owner of this site, he is one of us.
Now is not the time to get into heavy theological discussions. On the forum is a search box and you can use that to focus on the topics you wish to view. Likewise on the main site, the search box will bring up many articles.
The best thing is to lurk and read the boards, topics are generally well segregated. It will also allow you to get to know how others view things.
It may sound like a brush off but it is not. You are welcome to start threads with questions like you did here. Do not be shy to come straight out and ask. If there is a thread on which you may have a Q, reply to it and someone will answer.
Blessings
Quote from: Freebird on October 31, 2007, 05:40:58 PM
For some reason, I feel God again. Don't ask me how or why. I never thought I'd ever say that again.....
But I do, can't explain it really.
Hi, Freebird! :thumbsup:
Oh! He never left you or forsook you! Thank you, Lord! He is with you always, Freebird! Even to the end of the world! :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Freebird on October 31, 2007, 05:40:58 PM
Today, I am looking at strengthing my new relationship with God.
I am not sure where to go or what to do exactly.
Just lean back and rest in Him. :cloud9:
He will lead you because you are the sheep of His pasture.
What a wonderful journey we're on!
And I'm glad we'll all be able to travel it with you!
Welcome, once again and may the Lord fill your hungry heart!
(Pssst! :Sparkletooth: He will!)
Hopeful/Holly
Freebird,
Welcome to Tentmaker.
Thank you for sharing your story. I recognize my own in much of what you say.
I FIRED the god of my organized churchy days and have since, been on a journey to discover God ...in my own understanding. For me, this no longer means that I must know that I know that I know...ALL of the stuff that I use to know that I know that I knew that I knew...about God. Today, most of what I knew that I knew...I no longer know. AND...what my experience has shown me, is that my Religion required...even demanded... that I also know that I know... what they said that they knew, that they knew. To be told that they knew or to say that I knew...ended my journey, to understand.
Having had eternal torment as a knowing, for close to 25 years...has revealed to me that I have a broken knower. What remains for me...is that I'm hoping that the eyes of my understanding are being enlightened...instead. I'm leary of my own propensity to hunger to know what others know..in order to be filled with more and more knowledge and spend hours and hours sitting around a knowing campfire... I use to love the knowing fests that often went late into the night, in my own experience even while my head was getting bigger and bigger with all that knowing, I did not change...on the inside.
Faith...for me today...is evidenced by my actually experiencing... a being changed.. in the unseen. Being changed is the substance of what I have hoped for.
Again...welcome to Tentmaker.
Dean
Quote from: Dean on October 31, 2007, 08:22:41 PM
For me, this no longer means that I must know that I know that I know...ALL of the stuff that I use to know that I know that I knew that I knew...about God. Today, most of what I knew that I knew...I no longer know. AND...what my experience has shown me, is that my Religion required...even demanded... that I also know that I know... what they said that they knew, that they knew. To be told that they knew or to say that I knew...ended my journey, to understand.
:rolllol:
Just goes to show it ain't
what ya know, brother! It's WHO ya know! :thumbsup:
Hi Freebird,
Dean mention something about needing to 'fire his god' and getting a new one.
Maybe you'll enjoy this one.
http://p199.ezboard.com/fjesusthelightoftheworldfrm122.showMessage?topicID=103.topic
Peace, AJ
AJ
that is an awesome page. Is it ok to use it when in convos if needed?
kept
Quote from: Kept on October 31, 2007, 05:50:27 PM
Hi Freebird,
Tentmaker.org is a great website jam packed with all kinds of info on what ur is. In ur there is conservative views to liberal views. Just like all denoms if you will in christianity there will be divergance of opinions but one thing all Christian Universalists have in common is that ALL men will be saved, that Jesus Christ is the reason all men will be saved.
A great book that I highly recommend when you are first beginning to check into universalism is here http://hopebeyondhell.net/ and is downloadable
You are embarking on the most wonderful journey, getting to know God as a real loving merciful Father without all the ugly masks held up before Him.
God bless
kept
Hi Kept!
You know, I would love to download that book, but for some reason right now, my pdf reader won't let me. I tried yesterday, then today I updated my adobe reader, but it just comes up with errors right now.
I am intrigued by the opening page on that site, so I am going to keep on trying to get things resolved so that I may download and read!! Thanks for the reference!
I hope you can understand this, it sounds weird, but it feels as like I ALREADY know the Lord deep down in my heart, without all the ugliness that has been taught by many denominations, but that I have never been free to just let go and think of Him like He truly is!!
(I always got scolded from denominations over the hell issue and my belief that God will save all)
So....this is very refreshing!! I hope I can get closer to Him now.
Quote from: Redlettervoice on October 31, 2007, 05:51:20 PM
Hello Freebird,
Love your name, love the freedom in HIM and I will tell you, there is NO place of total
freedom except IN HIM. Man will be at every corner trying to bind you up but "He" is just
as He says He is, and that is why you, after two years of your own personal hell, have
been again shown HIS Faithfulness! His faithfulness is like the sun, comes up "every morning." Never fails.
I am not much at explaining UR, just not my particular emphasis, so I leave that part to
those called to do it, but I felt to welcome you here, and introduce myself........
I tell you there is nothing like walking with people who "agree" with you for it says
"How can two walk together unless they be agreed?" Therefore WALK and agree with
God and skip all the rest. ha Let it run off your back like water off a duck! Man! I wish
I'd known what I know now long ago. ha
Howdy!!!
And I would SO love to walk with those in which I feel we all agree....it would feel like coming home.
I'm getting the feeling this is for me....
Thanks for your kind words.
Quote from: SeekerSA on October 31, 2007, 06:03:38 PM
Freebird
As a newcomer it is normal to seek a replacement theology. I.e. reject ET, adopt UR, end of story.
No it is much deeper than that. In most boards I have posted stickies of articles dealing with different matters and this is for a kick off.
Essentially I can break it down to 4 major things we differ on but it is not as simple as it seems. Most see the No Hell as a draw car and a license to continue a sinful life regardless. That unfortunately is a fundie view who cannot believe all mankind will ultimately be reconciled to God. Here are the 4 major points.
1. No Eternal Torment (ET) aka Hell
2. No Secret Rapture
3. No fallen angels and Lucifer = Satan, fallen angels = demons
4. We cannot save ourselves using our "free-will"
Others may see or say we have more in common than that but this is what all of us here will agree to.
We do not have a creed or a statement of faith. We follow no man, not even Gary, the owner of this site, he is one of us.
Now is not the time to get into heavy theological discussions. On the forum is a search box and you can use that to focus on the topics you wish to view. Likewise on the main site, the search box will bring up many articles.
The best thing is to lurk and read the boards, topics are generally well segregated. It will also allow you to get to know how others view things.
It may sound like a brush off but it is not. You are welcome to start threads with questions like you did here. Do not be shy to come straight out and ask. If there is a thread on which you may have a Q, reply to it and someone will answer.
Blessings
Hi Seeker!
What is neat is right now I am an empty slate. I have already let go of my previous theologies when I became an athiest.
What I am feeling right now is different than I have ever before.
On the list you wrote, I can see one through three easily and agree!! On number four, the free will thing is confusing to me as of yet, but I would love to dig in and find out what that is!
I totally agree with you about lurking and reading on some things and I have been reading the "sticky's at the top, very helpful!
And please don't feel that I might feel brushed off from what you say. If anything, I have felt nothing but warmth from all the responses I have received on all my posts. I love this group!
Thank you!
Quote from: hopeful on October 31, 2007, 08:03:07 PM
Quote from: Freebird on October 31, 2007, 05:40:58 PM
For some reason, I feel God again. Don't ask me how or why. I never thought I'd ever say that again.....
But I do, can't explain it really.
Hi, Freebird! :thumbsup:
Oh! He never left you or forsook you! Thank you, Lord! He is with you always, Freebird! Even to the end of the world! :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Freebird on October 31, 2007, 05:40:58 PM
Today, I am looking at strengthing my new relationship with God.
I am not sure where to go or what to do exactly.
Just lean back and rest in Him. :cloud9:
He will lead you because you are the sheep of His pasture.
What a wonderful journey we're on!
And I'm glad we'll all be able to travel it with you!
Welcome, once again and may the Lord fill your hungry heart!
(Pssst! :Sparkletooth: He will!)
Hopeful/Holly
Holly, you are such a sweety! Thank you so much for your encouragement! :girlheart:
Quote from: Dean on October 31, 2007, 08:22:41 PM
Freebird,
Welcome to Tentmaker.
Thank you for sharing your story. I recognize my own in much of what you say.
I FIRED the god of my organized churchy days and have since, been on a journey to discover God ...in my own understanding.
:thumbsup: :bgdance:
I LOVE THIS!!!!
I fired that one too!!!!
Of my OWN understanding....wow, that hit home like a ton of bricks. THAT is what I am seeking.
QuoteFor me, this no longer means that I must know that I know that I know...ALL of the stuff that I use to know that I know that I knew that I knew...about God. Today, most of what I knew that I knew...I no longer know. AND...what my experience has shown me, is that my Religion required...even demanded... that I also know that I know... what they said that they knew, that they knew. To be told that they knew or to say that I knew...ended my journey, to understand.
Exactly and I GET that!! Every word.
I know I WANT and seek the Lord....but I already know the "old way" (which included demanded thinking of most deonominations in which I did not agree) will NOT WORK this time.
I am BUSY trying to seek Him this time in another understanding because I want and desire this to work so badly!
QuoteHaving had eternal torment as a knowing, for close to 25 years...has revealed to me that I have a broken knower. What remains for me...is that I'm hoping that the eyes of my understanding are being enlightened...instead. I'm leary of my own propensity to hunger to know what others know..in order to be filled with more and more knowledge and spend hours and hours sitting around a knowing campfire... I use to love the knowing fests that often went late into the night, in my own experience even while my head was getting bigger and bigger with all that knowing, I did not change...on the inside.
Faith...for me today...is evidenced by my actually experiencing... a being changed.. in the unseen. Being changed is the substance of what I have hoped for.
Again...welcome to Tentmaker.Dean
Dean, it sounds as if I have gone down the same road myself. Your post just hit home in SO many ways.
I too, am the type of person that has always been wanting to "know" what others "know" and too have spend SO SO many late nights staying up and trying to gain that "knowing."
I love your definition of faith of what is is for YOU.
I can see a new, different me emerging and I'm excited to see where I'm going and how this will go.
I think I'm on the brink of establishing the strongest bond I ever have with God...
I feel as if it is at my fingertips and I have to just keep on being patient and letting Him reveal Himself to me AS HE IS.
Thanks for your warm welcome!
Quote from: AJ on November 01, 2007, 05:40:41 AM
Hi Freebird,
Dean mention something about needing to 'fire his god' and getting a new one.
Maybe you'll enjoy this one.
http://p199.ezboard.com/fjesusthelightoftheworldfrm122.showMessage?topicID=103.topic
Peace, AJ
AJ,
I went there and read it and loved it!! Thanks so much, it was wonderful! :girlheart:
Freebird,
Thank you for your response.
I'm thankful that your hanging out... ova here. :thumbsup:
Dean
aka... mooch
willieH: Hi Lisa... :hithere:
Just thought I'd throw in a quick thought! :grin:
Quote from: Dean on November 01, 2007, 07:05:18 PM
Freebird,
Thank you for your response.
I'm thankful that your hanging out... ova here. :thumbsup:
Dean
aka... "mooch"
Brother
Dean is
"MOOCH" over at Christian Message Board (CMB)!
Peace... :HeartThrob:
In
JESUS
...willieH :gamer:
Quote from: Freebird on November 01, 2007, 03:12:19 PMYou know, I would love to download that book, but for some reason right now, my pdf reader won't let me. I tried yesterday, then today I updated my adobe reader, but it just comes up with errors right now.
Sorry for the :offtopic: but I thought this might be helpful. There is another way to save the PDF to your computer.
I'm not sure if this will work for you, but one way you could try downloading it from the front page is by right-clicking on the link to the PDF...
If you have Internet Explorer: right-click, then click "Save Target As..."
If you have Firefox: right-click, then click "Save Link As..."
(If you use a different browser I'm sure the process is similar)
Then choose where to save it!
Hope that is helpful! :winkgrin:
Quote from: Dean on November 01, 2007, 07:05:18 PM
Freebird,
Thank you for your response.
I'm thankful that your hanging out... ova here. :thumbsup:
Dean
aka... mooch
WOW!! WOW~~ WOW~~ Did I say WOW? :boyheart: :bgdance: :bgdance: :HeartThrob: How cool!!!!!!
And I love it ova here too!!!
Kept and everybody,
You may download anything from my site that want to.
Peace, AJ