Generally, a review for meaning of passages in a eaglesway response to a post of ps.
SubstanceGiving primary consideration to the immediately surrounding context, in the following I review each of the passages, primarily interpreting passages by their most relevant related verses (their immediate textual context), with a few other references where it may provide clarification.
First, realize that 'all' is generally an adjective, and is not automatically all-encompassing or absolute, but may have constraints.
This is the case in several usages in these passages, which should be evident to readers upon examining the larger passages within which the considered verses are found. The modified 'what' entity intended is not always explicit in the greek sources, but the all 'what' may have the 'what' implied, lacking other words in direct association in the immediate phrase.
Now to these passages, and their immediate context, that when examined shows a considerably different meaning than what might be thought simply from the combination of these subsets of verses, pulled out of their larger context.
eaglesway wrote:
Quote from: eaglesway on June 29, 2016, 08:12:12 AM
What does this mean?....
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
The above, examing the larger passage in Eph 1:1-14 that contains it...
has summary meaning:
Those who are in Christ,
choosing to be holy and blameless before the Father,
having listened to the message of truth and believed it,
and being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, are to be gathered together, in the fullness of time, and
are to receive an inheritance, which they have previously (as a promise Heb 9:15) obtained,
and
being those to whom the Holy Spirit is given as a pledge of that inheritance to be fully received.
examining content of individual verses:
who - those faithful in Christ (v1),
who - choosing to be holy and blameless before the Father (v4),
who - and being adopted as sons (v5),
who - receiving the redemption through his blood and the forgiveness of trespasses (v7)
who -as Paul and the Ephesians (v1, the salutation indicating the scope of applicability),
what - have obtained (promise of Heb 9:15) an inheritance (v11)
what - the mystery of his will(v9), that things in the heavens and the earth (v10)
what - are to be gathered together, in the fullness of time (v10), to receive an inheritance, (with the inheritance mentioned in Rev 21:1-7)
who - those 'in Him' being addressed also indicated as being the ones ('In Him YOU also') (v13)
who - who after listening to the message of truth (v13) and
what - having believed it (v13),
who - were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. (v13)
what - that Holy Spirit given, being a pledge/down-payment of the inheritance (v14)
eaglesway wrote:
Quote from: eaglesway on June 29, 2016, 08:12:12 AM
or this...
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
The above, examining the larger passage in Col 1:2-23 that contains it,
in summary means,
those being addressed (and by extension others like them),
having faith in Jesus and a love of the brethren,
having hope laid up in heaven,
having heard the word of truth,
and being filled with the knowledge of his will,
walking in a manner worthy of Jesus (to please in all respects), and bearing fruit in every good work,
... thus being qualified to share in the inheritance (of the kingdom),
who thus being in Christ, have redemption, the forgiveness of sins,
and
if they continue in the faith, firmly established and steadfast,
will thus be benefitting from the reconciliation of the blood of Jesus cross.examining content of individual verses from the larger passage context:
who - the saints and faithful brethren at colossae (v2)
who - having faith in Jesus Christ, and a love of the brethren (v4)
who - those having hope laid up in heaven, having heard the word of truth, the gospel (v5)
who - in whom the gospel is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, having understood the grace of God in truth (v6)
who - being filled with the knowledge of his will (v9)
who - walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please in all respects,
..... bearing fruit in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God (v10)
who - strengthened with all power, and attaining steadfastness with patience (v11)
who - joyously giving thanks to the Father, and being qualified to share in the inheritance (v12)
who - having been rescued from the domain of darkness, and transferred into the kingdom of His beloved Son (v13)
who - those who in Christ have redemption, the forgiveness of sins (v14)
(notes - regarding Christ (v15,16,17,18,19))
what - will be those benefitting from the reconciliation unto Himself through the blood of Jesus cross (v20)
who - were formerly alienated and hostile in mind and evil deeds (v21)
what - He has now reconciled in his flesh through his death, in order to present holy and blameless and beyond reproach (v22)
whowhat - if indeed they continue in the faith, firmly established and steadfast. (v23)
eaglesway wrote:
Quote from: eaglesway on June 29, 2016, 08:12:12 AM
Or this
"If I am lifted up from the earth i will draw all men unto me" John 12:32
First consider, that it seems it could be read as
"Though/When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all unto me.",
and likely with the meaning
"Though/When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all
[my] servants unto me."
Note that the 'if' is a conjunction (ean) which is translated in various ways, with some being translated as 'though' or occasionally as when/whensoever, and seems as 'though'/when might have made more sense here as well - he was going to the cross, per the Father's will, there was no 'if' uncertainty involved - and he was indicating, that even though he would die by the cross, he would (still) be drawing from 'all' (pas) nations (the Greeks coming to see him presumably prompting this response), whom he in this passage and elsewhere indicated, met the qualifications. The word pas (all) is apparently something simply referring to a 'whole', or 'every', or 'entire', or 'all', etc. - but, what the whole/all considered in this sentence actually is seems to be left unspecified, and the translators have apparently chosen to view it as 'men', which, from the surrounding context could be surmised to more correctly be 'servants', or 'my servants'. Note that elsewhere in the NT, NASB, 'pas' is variously translated as 'all men', 'all things', 'everyone', 'all', 'everything', 'every', and probably more (it appears >1400 times in NASB), but I think the point should be clear - its indefinite, not necessarily specific to 'men', although sometimes qualified with 'men' or something else (not of man), and sometimes not outright qualified (as is the case in v32). That it involves drawing from all nations, is indicated by its being part of Jesus response to the Greeks coming to see him, and that it is those qualified, by his mentioning that it is those who serve him, who are his servants, that will be where he is.
Now, examing the larger passage in John 12:20-50 (covering two days) that contains it,
in summary appears to mean:
those (from any nation/people) who hate their life in
this world (this kosmos, the current arrangement/order,
not inclusive of any future arrangement/order of a new heaven/earth),
and serve Jesus, following after him, are to be with him,
not loving the approval of men but the approval of God,
hearing his sayings and keeping them,
being those who thereby keep the Father's command, which leads to eternal life,
will be the 'all men', from all nations, Jesus will draw to himself, being lifted up from the earth.examining content of individual verses from the larger passage context:
who - from any/all nations (v20, v23, v32)
who - figuratively falls into the earth and dies, bearing much fruit (v24)
who - those who hate their life in this world (and will keep it to life eternal) (v25)
who - serve Jesus, and follow after him (v26)
who - thus being honored by the Father (v26)
what - (the who's being the 'all') Jesus will draw to himself, being lifted up from the earth (v32)****
(Matt 24:31, Mark 13:27)
who - walk in the light, and not being overtaken by darkness (v35)
who - believe in the light, so that they may become sons of the light (v36)
who - not being those who love the approval of men, but those who love the approval of God (v43)
who - being those who believe in Jesus, will not remain in darkness (v46)
who - being those who hear his sayings and keep them (v47)
who - (thereby) being those who keep the Father's commandment (Deut 18:15,Matt 17:5,Mar 9:7,Luk 9:35),
...... which leads to eternal life (v50)
****perhaps worth noting from (a parable in) Luke 16:31, "...If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead"
Now, it might be appropriate to further consider some of Jesus related statements elsewhere in John...
John 6:35-40,44-45
:35 "Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst."
:36 "But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe."
:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."
:38 ""For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me"
:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day."
:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."
:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.'
Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me"
Note particularly in verse 45, where the quote contains 'ALL', that while the quote itself seems to indicate all shall be taught, Jesus elaborates that those who are taught need to learn, and it is those who learn that will come to him.
Note also that in v40,44, the eternal life mentioned is being initiated on the 'last day', when Jesus will raise up (no mention being made of his providing eternal life at any later subsequent point.)
eaglesway wrote:
Quote from: eaglesway on June 29, 2016, 08:12:12 AM
Or
Behold I am making all things new! Rev 21:5
Examining the larger passage Rev 21:1-27 that contains it,
in summary means,
there is (or will be) a new heaven and earth and Jerusalem***,
to be inherited by those who 'overcome' cowardice, unbelief, abominations, murderous actions/thoughts, immorality, avoiding sorcery, idolatry and deceit,
but those who do not overcome those things,
have their part** (inheritance) in the lake of fire.
From the passage context there seems a
clear indication of what ("all things") is being made new (earth, heaven, Jerusalem),
and who inherits it (those who overcome),
and a clear indication of those ("but for the..." v8) who do not overcome (cowardice,doubt,
abominations,murderous tendencies,immorality,practice of sorcery, idolatry, deceit)
and thus do not inherit that which is being made new*******,
but rather inherit "their part**" in the lake of fire.
examining content of individual verses from the larger passage context:
whatistobenew - the new heaven and earth (v1)
whatistobenew - the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven (v2)
whatistobenew - the tabernacle of God is to be among mean (v3)
when - the first things have passed away (v4)
recap - he is making all things new (things recounted in previous v1-3) (v5)
forwho - he who overcomes, will inherit these (preceding) things (v7)
inheritance - being the preceding new heaven, new earth, jerusalem, tabernacle of God (v1-3, and v4)
--but separately, in contrast--
forwho - the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, immoral persons,
......... sorcers, idolaters, all liars (v8)
what - their part** (share of inheritance as in Luk 15:12) is in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone (v8),
---
what - the bride, the wife of the Lamb (v9)
what - bride - ...the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God (v10)
--(about the city and its use******, v11-26)--
notfor - the unclean, those practicing abomination and lying, whose names are not found in the lamb's book of life (v27)
** share of the 'estate'/inheritance, as in Luke 15:12
*** in which righteousness is to dwell, indicated in 2 Pet 3:13
****** v24(v26) apparently indicates according to some manuscripts, that the city is to be used by
the nations of the saved*******Paul at least 3 times (passages following) also wrote of those who would not inherit nor have part in the kingdom
1 Cor 6:9-10 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, none of these [...] will inherit the kingdom of God."
Gal 5:19-21 "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident which are [...] those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Eph 5:5 "For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God."
Addendum eaglesway wrote:
Quote from: eaglesway on June 29, 2016, 08:12:12 AM
ps,
Scripture is interpreted by scripture.
Agreed.
It is particularly important to consider the immediately surrounding context of a passage, which often aids in understanding a smaller subset of verses within that passage.
Even though you make that comment, you omitted the immediate context of each of these passages, which is necessary to understand them.
Quote from: eaglesway on June 29, 2016, 08:12:12 AM
You seem to have no willingness or ability to read the scriptures for yourself.
To the above, I offer a reminder of Paul's words found in Tit 3:2, "... malign no one ...".
And regarding the following,
Quote from: eaglesway on June 29, 2016, 08:12:12 AM
You present sources that make simple assertions without the evidence for them or the context of the rest of the scriptures
The "simple" assertions were generally accompanied by very concrete evidence; consider reviewing the presented information again.
Providing specific examples of what I, or my sources, have presented in error, and supporting bible passages clearly showing that error, would be more profitable for all than a sweeping generalization such as that above lacking any discussable topically/textually relevant specifics.
As for the context of the "rest of the scriptures", considering "the rest" without first sufficiently considering
the immediate textual context of a passage can be misleading.
My Scripture quotations taken from the NASB. (http://www.lockman.org) unless otherwise identified.
Quotations in material quoted from other posts may be from elsewhere.