can more be less?

[marie glen]

Romans 5:15 says, "But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many."

If Adam's sin made all who ever live, die, and God's grace in Jesus is greater, isn't it impossible that fewer than all who ever live be in Jesus, of which "Adam was a type" (verse 14).

If more are affected by Adam, than by Jesus, then grace cannot be said to be "greater" - "mallon - G3123, more".

"More" than those affected by Adam, being "all". How can more be less?

:dontknow: my :2c: :Peace2:

[Ross]

Right on sister!! :iagree:

Highly illogical how man claims to be greater than God with all these religions which surround the globe.

"Can the pot tell the potter why it has been made and what it's job will be?"

The wisdom of man is foolish compared to the wisdom of God.
No signs will be given save the resurrection of Christ[ the sin of Jonah]. Yet many are claiming signs, vision, wonders.

As Paul points out to the Romans about the hardening of the heart, with all consigned to disobedience so that God may show mercy to ALL.
All is a pretty inclusive word.

[Dandelion]

I like your train of thought, Marie.

Maybe it says that 'many' died, because those who are in Christ never die, according to the Bible.

John 11

25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Actually, the above quote is supportive of UR, too, I believe. Sounds like Jesus is saying if you die but believe in Him, you will live and if you are alive and believe in Him then you never die.

You learn something new everyday!     :dsunny:

Thanks, Marie.

D. 

[jugghead]

Actually, the above quote is supportive of UR, too, I believe. Sounds like Jesus is saying if you die but believe in Him, you will live and if you are alive and believe in Him then you never die.

It is for this reason we can understand the wisdom of God

Just look at what mankind does, every time they come to realize that something is not good (which is also saying that it is evil) mankind makes a law against it

the law is what is produced by the knowledge of good and evil, this is what the TOKOGAE is a representation of

Mankind is constantly eating the law which will always cause death ..... and one of the ways I believe God defines death is not knowing His love for us

When we understand that Christ IS the grace of God ...... we can understand this:

if you die (under the law) but believe in Him (believe in Grace), you will live (ET believers)

and if you are alive and believe in Him (because fully believing in the grace of God, which is also believing the law was completely fulfilled is being alive) then you never die. (UR believers)

How cleaver is a God that figured out a way that no matter what we believed while physically alive, we will come to know the grace of God and how much He loves us ..... the reason why every tongue will confess and every knee will bow is because ..... they have been shown Grace, they have been shown Christ, they have been shown the Word

Grace = Christ = Word

The Grace of God is not just a "what" it is a "who" ...... just like the Word of God is not just a "what" it is a "who"

The Word of God is the word Grace and that Word is Christ Himself (and many other names)

This what I believe John completely understood when he wrote the words "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God"

a parable to those with eyes who cannot see "In the beginning was Grace, Grace was with God and Grace was God"

all good things not only come from God they ARE God, because it is a giving of Himself

the grace of God is not just "what" we are becoming it is "who" we are becoming and THAT is Christ being formed in you

[eaglesway]

For me the tree of life is Jesus, who proved that "no greater love has a man than this, that He lay down His life for his friends."

The law is subject to man, who can act in his own interest or in the interest of others. When man acts in the interest of others, he discovers the love of God and the Spirit fulfills the law because love does no evil.

Most of the time however, man uses the law in his own interest as a club to make others into his own image.

When man walks in the love of God, he fulfills the law- which was only a shadow of the love Jesus displayed on the cross.

[marie glen]

Actually, the above quote is supportive of UR, too, I believe. Sounds like Jesus is saying if you die but believe in Him, you will live and if you are alive and believe in Him then you never die.

Amen.. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I believe, because Jesus said we will never die, and because of what Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4 about being asleep in Christ, that believers who die are in a sort of twilight like when under anesthesia.. awaiting the time when "all in the graves will hear His voice and will come out, some to a resurrection of life, and some to a resurrection of judgment" (correction) (and atonement! :gsmile: "and the rest of the dead" (not yet saved during this life) "come not back to life until after the 1000 years" (of Jesus' millennium) Rev 20..

[marie glen]

For me the tree of life is Jesus, who proved that "no greater love has a man than this, that He lay down His life for his friends."

..and He died on the tree..

Most of the time however, man uses the law in his own interest as a club to make others into his own image.

:laughing7: boy is thAt ever true..!

When man walks in the love of God, he fulfills the law- which was only a shadow of the love Jesus displayed on the cross.
When man acts in the interest of others, he discovers the love of God and the Spirit fulfills the law because love does no evil.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

Amen, Jugghead.. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :banana: :cloud9:

         --------------------------------------------------

I was reading the verses this morning in the Good News Bible.. where it says Adam was a type of Jesus, wherein all (though it's translated "many") died through Adam, then it says but "God's Grace is much greater"!

All believers seem to pick up on, 5:17 - "It is true that through the sin of one man death began to rule because of that one man. But how much greater is the result of what was done by the one man, Jesus Christ! All who receive God's abundant grace and are freely put right with him will rule in life through Christ." :banana:

But they seem to totally miss - 5:19 - "And just as all people were made sinners as the result of the disobedience of one man, in the same way they will all be put right with God as the result of the obedience of the one man."

[Dandelion]

When man walks in the love of God, he fulfills the law- which was only a shadow of the love Jesus displayed on the cross.

Absolutely!

D.

[deeplyloved]

I would say that Romans 5:15 sounds like real good news!

5:15  But God's free gift immeasurably outweighs the transgression. For if through the transgression of the one individual the mass of mankind have died, infinitely greater is the generosity with which God's grace, and the gift given in His grace which found expression in the one man Jesus Christ, have been bestowed on the mass of mankind. Romans 5:15, Weymouth.