Believe or Know

[claypot]

Hey All,

Would you say you believe God is or you know God is, or both?

What is the difference to you? Please explain your thoughts a bit. I don't ask this lightly.

cp

[WhiteWings]

Litte bit of both for me.
May sound weird but I possibly know more that God exists than I believe it :msealed:
I've always been fond of (semi-)science. When I look at the edges and impossibilities of science it's somehow 'proved' there is something more.
Add to that the improbability that a bunch of nomads can author something so complex as the Bible.

Claypot, don't be ashamed the above doesn't make sense to you because it doesn't even make sense to me....

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I know. Reasons include; He speaks to me, He teaches me, He heals me, He operates gifts through me. It's a very personal relationship we have with Him. Blessings.....

[Molly]

Both. 

This describes it best for me--

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[WhiteWings]

Cardinal, Molly,

What comes first?
For example I can imagine that if faith goes extremely deep it seems to become knowing.

[sparrow]

Would you say you believe God is or you know God is, or both?

I know God is.


When I'm in darkness, I hope God is.
When He shines a little shaft of light down into my darkness, I believe God is.
When I've come completely out of the darkness and am standing in His light, I know God is.

This is how it is for me. I'm not ashamed of the "I hope God is.." because I am a human being and human beings go through things for a reason. Everyone has their own path to walk, and no-one should compare theirselves against another. Because no two paths are the same. If some exist in the "I know" all the time... then perhaps they weren't meant to experience certain types of darkness. We're all different.

peace.

[Seth]

Would you say you believe God is or you know God is, or both?

I know God is.


When I'm in darkness, I hope God is.
When He shines a little shaft of light down into my darkness, I believe God is.
When I've come completely out of the darkness and am standing in His light, I know God is.

This is how it is for me. I'm not ashamed of the "I hope God is.." because I am a human being and human beings go through things for a reason. Everyone has their own path to walk, and no-one should compare theirselves against another. Because no two paths are the same. If some exist in the "I know" all the time... then perhaps they weren't meant to experience certain types of darkness. We're all different.

peace.

That's awesome. It really shows also that "hoping" rather than "knowing" is not a sign of wavering. Your example of hoping, believing and knowing are all responses we have according to our situations which fluxuate daily. Hope, belief and certainty therefore all have a place, daily in our healing and walking and growing. God tells us that hope is good and if we see it, we do not hope for it. And blessed are those who see not yet believe. And we should pray in faith nothing doubting. All are covered. Well done sparrow.

[martincisneros]

Well, "known" is an experiential word.  The Apostle John says:

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1John 2:3

He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1John 2:4

We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 1John 4:6

13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 1John 4:13

16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 1John 4:16

and a couple of chapters earlier the love we're to abide in is the Scriptures.  The word "know" is a very interesting study in the New Testament -- really the whole Bible, but particularly the New Testament.  Here's a partial listing of "know" Scriptures -- just a partial of some of the more interesting ones:

But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. Romans 2:2

and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, Romans 2:18

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Romans 3:19

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Romans 6:3

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

But I know that when I come to you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ. Romans 15:29

For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 1Corinthians 2:2

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 1Corinthians 2:12

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Corinthians 2:14

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1Corinthians 3:16

But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord wills, and I will know, not the word of those who are puffed up, but the power. 1Corinthians 4:19

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 1Corinthians 6:2

Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 1Corinthians 6:3

Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 1Corinthians 6:19

Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 1Corinthians 9:24

But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 1Corinthians 11:3

For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich. 2Corinthians 8:9

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 2Corinthians 12:2

And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 2Corinthians 12:3

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2Corinthians 13:5

But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified. 2Corinthians 13:6

Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. Galatians 3:7

But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. Galatians 4:8

the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, Ephesians 1:18

to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Ephesians 3:19

For I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayer and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, Philippians 1:19

And being confident of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy of faith, Philippians 1:25

Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one. Colossians 4:6

For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake. 1Thessalonians 1:5

For you yourselves know, brethren, that our coming to you was not in vain. 1Thessalonians 2:1

as you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children, 1Thessalonians 2:11

For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain. 1Thessalonians 3:5

for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus. 1Thessalonians 4:2

that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 1Thessalonians 4:4

For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day. 2Timothy 1:12

in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 2Timothy 2:25

They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. Titus 1:16

For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears. Hebrews 12:17

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? James 2:20

let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:20

For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth. 2Peter 1:12

You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 2Peter 3:17

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1John 2:3

He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1John 2:4

But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1John 2:5

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 1John 2:20

I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 1John 2:21

If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. 1John 2:29

By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 1John 3:16

And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 1John 3:19

We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 1John 4:6

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 1John 5:2

And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him. 1John 5:15

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. 1John 5:20

But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. Jude 1:10

[Beloved Servant]

I know Him, you know Him, we all are given to know Him and are without excuse.

Romans;
1:20 For, from the very creation of the world, His invisible perfections--namely His eternal power and divine nature--have been rendered intelligible and clearly visible by His works, so that these men are without excuse.

1:21 For when they had come to know God, they did not give Him glory as God nor render Him thanks, but they became absorbed in useless discussions, and their senseless minds were darkened.

1:22 While boasting of their wisdom they became utter fools,

1:23 and, instead of worshipping the imperishable God, they worshipped images resembling perishable man or resembling birds or beasts or reptiles.

1:24 For this reason, in accordance with their own depraved cravings, God gave them up to uncleanness, allowing them to dishonour their bodies among themselves with impurity.

1:25 For they had bartered the reality of God for what is unreal, and had offered divine honours and religious service to created things, rather than to the Creator--He who is for ever blessed. Amen.

[Molly]

Would you say you believe God is or you know God is, or both?

I know God is.


When I'm in darkness, I hope God is.
When He shines a little shaft of light down into my darkness, I believe God is.
When I've come completely out of the darkness and am standing in His light, I know God is.

This is how it is for me. I'm not ashamed of the "I hope God is.." because I am a human being and human beings go through things for a reason. Everyone has their own path to walk, and no-one should compare theirselves against another. Because no two paths are the same. If some exist in the "I know" all the time... then perhaps they weren't meant to experience certain types of darkness. We're all different.

peace.

That's fine because he is the God of hope... :bigGrin:


Romans 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

[Molly]

Cardinal, Molly,

What comes first?
For example I can imagine that if faith goes extremely deep it seems to become knowing.

I had both as a child.  Then I lost both.  Then I made a leap of faith because I was so desperate and he showed up--immediately.  By that time, I needed more proof--and I was given proof.  As a child, I needed none.  I just knew it was true.

[Seth]

hope

1 : to cherish a desire with anticipation
2 archaic : trust

transitive verb
1 : to desire with expectation of obtainment
2 : to expect with confidence : trust

---------

My favorite quote from Shawshank Redemption: hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.

[sparrow]

hope

1 : to cherish a desire with anticipation
2 archaic : trust

transitive verb
1 : to desire with expectation of obtainment
2 : to expect with confidence : trust

---------

My favorite quote from Shawshank Redemption: hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.

:thumbsup:

and I love that quote, too.

[peacemaker]

"Faith is not believing that God can, it's knowing that He Will."

But without love, it is nothing!

Love is patient, love is kind, love is not envious, boastful, arrogant or rude.
It does not insist on its own way.
It is not irritable or resentful.
It does not rejoice in wrong-doing, but rejoices in the truth.

"Love bears the weight of all things; believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

peacemaker

[Beloved Servant]

AMEN, the things tears of joy are made from!

[claypot]

Man, you guys are great and not to play favorites but Sparrow, that hit a particular good chord in me. Thanks.

But again, when I get time I am going to re-read this whole thread.

Am in the process of placing my mother in hospice and we decided to have her live in our home and today was move in day. Extremely busy but feeling under control for now.

WW, you crack me up. I can't wait for the next phase of life if for nothing else, just to meet you!

cp