Some emailed me a link to the article below and suggested someone respond to it and post the response on Tentmaker. If anyone is up to it that has writing/research skills and is led by the Holy Spirit to do so, have a crack at it. If nothing else, perhaps some of you can visit the site and post some comments regarding their article. After all, they end the article "Personally, I wish that everyone would be saved eternally. Such, though, is not realistic in view of the conditional element of salvation and the often misguided freewill of man.":
http://www.gospelgazette.com/gazette/1999/aug/page16.shtml (http://www.gospelgazette.com/gazette/1999/aug/page16.shtml)
Christian Zeal
Could you give me some reasonable, civil and scriptural answers to some of these questions? thanks. Why is it that those who believe in it spend so little of their time and money warning their family, friends, neighbors, business associates and even their enemies of the dire consequences of dying before accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior? . . . If Hell was real, the number one occupation of all members of churches should be to determine how to get their community saved. But when we look at the time and money the average Christian or Christian leader spends on evangelism and missionaries, it is usually among the lowest of priorities. How can Christians fill their spiritual time with buffets after Church service, teas, Bible studies, Easter egg hunts, Christmas parties, weekend retreats, and thousands of other activities which take time and money away from getting their community saved for Jesus while millions of souls drop into the fiery lake because no Christian took the time and spend the money to prove they love them as Christ loves them? ~ Gary Amirault, Hermann, MO 65041
The paragraph above is the introduction of a rough dissertation of about 13,500 words in the guise of a question. In comparison, the ideal article length that normally appears in Gospel Gazette Online is from 1,200 to 1,500 words. The querist's introductory paragraph above and the balance of his lengthy manuscript propose to (1) debunk the notion of an eternal hell, and (2) argue for Universalism. While we will treat the basic thrust of his argument regarding "hell and Universalism" in a subsequent "Q&A," here we will address the topic of Christian zeal.
First, noting that someone is or is not conducting himself in a specific way does not materially affect divine doctrine. In this case, zeal or the lack thereof to warn others about impending, eternal doom neither proves nor disproves God's will for mankind. Whatever God teaches, recorded in the Bible, is the same and unalterable irrespective of human activity.
Second, though I would not purport to defend all 'church' activities ascribed to denominational people (e.g., "Easter egg hunts, Christmas parties"), I heartily recommend for myself, Gary Amirault and every soul an earnest participation in "Bible studies" also decried in the inset paragraph above. Bible study, ascertaining biblical answers for religious questions, is the only way one can really know the truth about such things as "hell," "Universalism" and Christian zeal.
If Universalism were true and it were equally true that there is no eternal hell, Christian zeal would not be necessary. Further, it would be perfectly defensible that Christians lack zeal in their interaction with souls who could not be lost in a devil's hell anyway (if hell does not exist). The querist is right about one thing, that is, 'It is indefensible for the children of God, who are well aware of the eternal punishment that awaits disobedient souls, to not more enthusiastically attempt to win the souls of "family, friends, neighbors, business associates and even their enemies."' It is criminal, in a spiritual sense, for Christians to fail or to refuse to spend "their time and money" (which really belong to God anyway) to persuade lost souls from their course of eternal dismay. Borrowing from Mr. Amirault, since hell is ". . . real, the number one occupation of all members of churches should be to determine how to get their community saved."
What is often called the "Great Commission" (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16), incurs as a great responsibility on each child of God to do what he or she can to spread the good news of the Gospel. Much zeal, the kind each soul entertained when he or she became a Christian, is needed to carry the Gospel effectively to a lost and dying world. Often, Christians do not act as though they believe (or care) that eternal punishment is drawing near for all disobedient souls (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9). What we may fail to realize is that our failure or refusal to tell others about the saving Gospel may consign our souls to eternal torment as well. Christians can be just as disobedient (regarding evangelism, among other things) as disobedient souls who have never become Christians. The malady of indifference among Christians is particularly commonplace among affluent people. However, people less blessed by this world's goods trust and hope less in this life. These latter souls more nearly sense the urgency to redeem their own souls and reach others with the Gospel.
Every child of God needs to be zealous of good works, chief of which is to enthusiastically seek lost souls (the reason for which Jesus came to earth, Luke 19:10). We must be ". . . a peculiar people, zealous of good works" (Titus 2:14). Happily, zeal is contagious and every child of God needs to be infected with righteous, Bible-guided zeal. "For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many" (2 Corinthians 9:2).
We must avoid blind, misguided zeal, such as characteristic of the Jews in Paul's day (Romans 10:1-3). We must avoid allowing our zeal to degenerate into jealousy (Romans 13:13). However, we must have zeal for God, his Word and his kingdom. It is inexcusable (we may find eternally so) for the children of God to shirk their God-given responsibility to zealously proclaim the saving Gospel as widely as humanly possible with God's help.
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Universalism
If Hell was real why do most leading historians acknowledge that the early church was dominated by universalism? . . . If Hell is real and universalism is a heresy . . . Will not justice be eternally violated, if the law of God is not universally fulfilled? . . . Can God be universally and eternally good, if endless misery is true for a single soul? ~ Gary Amirault, Hermann, MO
Our address of "Universalism" here is the third treatment of the rambling 13,550 word "question" posed by Mr. Amirault. Also appearing in 'questions and answers,' we have treated "Christian Zeal" and "Does Hell Really Exist?"
From the excerpt above, the querist apparently believes that the concepts of "hell" and "Universalism" are polar opposites with no middle ground. Since he abhors "hell" and "everlasting punishment," Gary Amirault champions Universalism. In our two other answers to his 'question,' we observed several uncharitable name-callings applied to anyone who believes the biblical doctrine of hell and everlasting punishment. Above, God himself is indicted regarding his 'goodness' if God is not a Universalist. According to our querist, God is to blame if a single soul is lost in a devil's hell and otherwise misses eternal bliss in heaven. It is further asserted that the early church was "dominated by universalism." Let's more closely examine the doctrine of Universalism and especially ascertain what the Bible has to say about salvation.
A dictionary definition adequately and simply conveys the basic thrust of Universalism. "1. a : a theological doctrine that all human beings will eventually be saved" [Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, (Springfield, Massachusetts: Merriam-Webster, Incorporated) 1993.]
Historically, the early church was not "dominated" by the doctrine of Universalism. References to Scripture below verify that the first century church fully acknowledged that some souls would be lost. Further, Universalism was a doctrine that post-dated the New Testament church by over a century.
Origen was the first Christian Universalist. He taught a final restoration, but with modesty as a speculation rather than a dogma, in his youthful work De Principiis (written before 231), which was made known in the West by the loose version of Rufinus (398). In his later writings there are only faint traces of it; he seems at least to have modified it, and exempted Satan from final repentance and salvation, but this defeats the end of the theory. He also obscured it by his other theory of the necessary mutability of free will, and the constant succession of fall and redemption. Universal salvation (including Satan) was clearly taught by Gregory of Nyssa, a profound thinker of the school of Origen (d. 395), and, from an exegetical standpoint, by the eminent Antiochian divines Diodorus of Tarsus (d. 394) and Theodore of Mopsuestia (d. 429), and many Nestorian bishops. In the West also at the time of Augustin (d. 430) there were, as he says, "multitudes who did not believe in eternal punishment." But the view of Origen was rejected by Epiphanius, Jerome, and Augustin, and at last condemned as one of the Origenistic errors under the Emperor Justinian (543). Since that time universalism was regarded as a heresy, but is tolerated in Protestant churches as a private speculative opinion or charitable hope. [Schaff, Philip, History of the Christian Church, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
Apparently, one the "authorities" to whom the querist appeals does not concur with his view of Universalism. Though F.W. Farrar decried "hell" and "everlasting punishment," he did not subscribe to Universalism. Without the citations to verify his assertions, our querist's references to supposed "authorities" remain as mere, unproven assertions.
The doctrine of the Fathers on future punishment is discussed by Dr. Edward Beecher, l.c., and in the controversial works called forth by Canon Farrar's Eternal Hope (Five Sermons preached in Westminster Abbey, Nov. 1877. Lond., 1879.) See especially DR. PUSEY: "What is of Faith as to Everlasting Punishment?" A Reply to Dr. Farrar's Challenge. Oxf. and Lond., second ed. 1880 (284 pages). Canon F. W. FARRAR: Mercy and Judgment: A few last words on Christian Eschatology with reference to Dr. Pusey's "What is of Faith?" London and N. York, 1881 (485 pages). See chs. II., III., IX.-XII. Farrar opposes with much fervor "the current opinions about Hell," and reduces it to the smallest possible dimensions of time and space, but expressly rejects Universalism. He accepts with Pusey the Romanizing view of "future purification" (instead of "probation"), and thus increases the number of the saved by withdrawing vast multitudes of imperfect Christians from the awful doom. [Ibid.]
One major flaw of Universalism is the failure to realize that salvation is conditional. Jesus Christ came to this world "to seek and to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10). The scope or availability of the redemption that Jesus proffered was to the whole world (John 3:16-17). First John 2:2 says of Jesus Christ, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." Yet, though redemption or salvation was made available to every accountable soul on the planet, in every generation, not every soul has appropriated this spiritual blessing to himself on God's terms.
In general terms, to receive salvation as a consequence of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, one must obey God's will, namely the Gospel or New Testament. Speaking of Jesus, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" (Hebrews 5:8-9). Additional to the announced requirement for salvation of obedience, the Scripture clearly implies that anyone who does not obey Jesus Christ will not be saved. The apostle Paul states this in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." Even the Book of Romans, the great book of faith, is prefaced and concluded with references to "the obedience of faith" (Romans 1:5; 16:26).
God's grace (Ephesians 2:8) and mercy (Titus 3:5) become operable toward a soul as a consequence of obedience, as imperfect (we are not sinlessly perfect) as it may be. God, though, will not save a soul in open rebellion to him. God cannot save a disobedient soul without compromising Divine Holiness (which if he did, he would be less than God). The sacrifice of Jesus Christ is the means by which an infinitely holy and just God can commune with his wayward creature man, conditional upon man's obedient response to God's overture of salvation.
A second major flaw of Universalism is its failure to realize the role of freewill in salvation. Every passage of Scripture that tells the reader to do anything presumes the ability of that reader to exercise his free will. The wonderful invitation of Jesus in Revelation 22:17 would be a horrible farce if mankind was unable to use his freewill to accept and comply with our Lord's invitation. "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Only those who exercise their freewill to do the will of God have any legitimate hope of spending eternity in heaven. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21). All others will be consigned to the alternative eternal destination of which the Bible speaks. Unfortunately, the majority of mankind through neglect, ignorance or open rebellion will be lost (Matthew 7:13-14).
A summary of man's role in his salvation under the category of obedience includes the following. Before a person can exercise his freewill, he must know what to do. Therefore, he must acquaint himself with God's Word. Then, a person has something in which to believe. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17). Belief or faith, next, prompts one to action, beginning with repentance from past sins. "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3). While repentance occurs on the inside of a person, faith also prompts a believer to tell others about his new found faith, as one soul did in Acts 8:37. ". . . I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Bible faith also leads the believer to begin doing the will of God, beginning with submitting to be immersed in water for the remission of sins. ". . . Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins . . ." (Acts 2:38; Romans 6:3-5).
Personally, I wish that everyone would be saved eternally. Such, though, is not realistic in view of the conditional element of salvation and the often misguided freewill of man. Contrary to what I or someone else might prefer, the Bible alone provides the only authoritative information regarding God's plan of redemption. Our salvation from past sins and our anticipated eternal redemption is dependent upon conforming to God's provision for salvation.
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Copyright 1999, conditions of use
Gospel Gazette Online
Louis Rushmore, Editor
4325 Southeast Drive
Steubenville, Ohio 43953-3353 rushmore@gospelgazette.com http://www.gospelgazette.com/ webmaster@gospelgazette.com
While zeal should be everyone's agenda in the Great Commission, the reason for the zeal or lack thereof is mostly attributed to the reason for salvation.
The Pie-in-the-sky heaven is just as ludicrous as the fiction of "The Never Ending Story" fantasia land. People try street evangelism and get disheartened when little or nothing happens. We have a few accounts of the model evangelist in Philip and in all cases was sent by the Holy Spirit. Most evangelical events of the modern era require the seeker to come to a gospel meeting in a church or a tent crusade. Although these work, this is not the commission of Go!
Obviously the Turn-or-Burn approach does not work. Trying the Father's Love approach in the obvious way but then talking about it yields little results too. Jesus was specific in the correct approach of going out and meeting the immediate needs of the people.
Seeing the fruit of Love manifested, will open more doors than knowledge does.
Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
So if the Father is not in the equation, you are wasting your time trying to do it on your own; at best you can only sow seed.
QuoteOne major flaw of Universalism is the failure to realize that salvation is conditional. Jesus Christ came to this world "to seek and to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2019:2-10;&version=50;)). The scope or availability of the redemption that Jesus proffered was to the whole world (John 3:16-17). First John 2:2 says of Jesus Christ, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." Yet, though redemption or salvation was made available to every accountable soul on the planet, in every generation, not every soul has appropriated this spiritual blessing to himself on God's terms.
Your first proof text is about the story of "dwarf" Zaccheus and I have linked from verse 2 to give the context. And yes he was considered a sinner just as Jesus was by hanging out with the sinners and tax collectors.
I love how the commentary goes on to say as highlighted in blue and red we have on God's terms, then this:
QuoteIn general terms, to receive salvation as a consequence of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, one must obey God's will, namely the Gospel or New Testament.
How vague can you get?
First on God's terms then in general terms (Your POV and not God's). Let us look at God's terms.
Joh 5:30 I can do nothing of My own self. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will,
but the will of the Father who has sent Me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the will of the Father who sent Me, that
of all which He has given Me
I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day.
QuoteSpeaking of Jesus, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" (Hebrews 5:8-9).
Heb 5:8 though being a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
Heb 5:9 And being perfected, He became the Author of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him,
There is nothing wrong with this premise but what is failed to shown is obey what? How is one to obey Jesus if He is not revealed by the Father first?
QuoteAdditional to the announced requirement for salvation of obedience, the Scripture clearly implies that anyone who does not obey Jesus Christ will not be saved. The apostle Paul states this in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."
2Th 1:7 and [to repay] with relief to you*, the ones being afflicted, along with us in the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with [the] angels of His power [or, His powerful angels],
2Th 1:8 in a fire of flame [or, a flaming fire], giving [fig., inflicting] vengeance on the ones not knowing God and to the ones not obeying the Gospel of our Lord Jesus {Christ},
2Th 1:9 who will suffer divine justice, eternal ruin, from [the] face [fig., presence] of the Lord and from the glory of His strength,
At a literal read, it looks like what it says, remember, this was written to the Hebrews and was speaking of the Jews that rejected the Gospel of Jesus.
Firstly who had the revelation of Jesus Christ? Those to whom it had been revealed.
The ones not knowing God. Who were they? They were the Jews who thought they knew God through their religious beliefs and Levitical laws, they rejected Jesus remember? They already had an "inkling" in part of who God is albeit very corrupt. Jesus came to show a better humble way but it offended their religious beliefs. So in reality, not knowing God in essence means not knowing the true intent of God.
If taken literally and out of historical context, how can God punish anyone for not knowing about him seeing Jesus said:
Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me
unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
That is Conditional on God and not man.
And to the ones not obeying the Gospel of our Lord Jesus.
In the text is speaks of two types of people. Not knowing God, the Pharisees and religious elect and the ones not obeying the Gospel. Now this infers to the 2nd group, ones that already knew the Gospel of Jesus.
So rightly, those knowing the gospel aka to whom it has been revealed and those with a misconstrued image or will of God, if the shoe fits, wear it! are the ones to whom this judgment is directed to.
QuoteEven the Book of Romans, the great book of faith, is prefaced and concluded with references to "the obedience of faith" (Romans 1:5; 16:26).
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated to the gospel of God
Rom 1:2 (which He had promised beforehand through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures),
Rom 1:3 about His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who was made of the seed of David according to the flesh,
Rom 1:4 who was marked out the Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead;
Rom 1:5 by whom we have received grace and apostleship, to obedience to the faith among all nations, for His name;
Rom 1:6 among whom you also are the called-out ones of Jesus Christ:
First of all, Paul emphatically declares
receipt of grace (gift) of apostleship (ministry) to the obedience to the faith (that which is believed in)
I just love when you folk misrepresent scripture by cherry picking texts and never quoting in full or in context to support your doom-n-gloom gospel.
Conditional again here we see receipt of grace before obedience to the faith is possible, our faith anyway is also a gift and is the faith of Jesus Christ and not of ourselves.
Rom 16:25 Now to Him (God) who is able to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, having been unvoiced during eternal times;
Why did you leave this out? It sets the context of your proof text. God must first establish an there must be a revelation of the mystery that only God can do. Then only:
Rom 16:26 but now has been made plain, and by the prophetic Scriptures, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations (aka the great commission)for the obedience of faith;
Rom 16:27 to God only wise be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
You are citing a requirement yet ignore the prerequisites that God first needs to accomplish aka God's way/terms.
QuoteGod's grace (Ephesians 2:8) and mercy (Titus 3:5) become operable toward a soul as a consequence of obedience, as imperfect (we are not sinlessly perfect) as it may be.
God's Grace is conditional?
Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
Tit 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
No wonder you folk cite scripture and do not quote it. Scripture here opposes your POV. The two texts here clearly show it is of God and not of us.
QuoteGod, though, will not save a soul in open rebellion to him. God cannot save a disobedient soul without compromising Divine Holiness (which if he did, he would be less than God).
Sounds like you have a god made in your image. You put God in a box to conform to your pious POV and all I see here is exactly how the Pharisees were. Yup it is sickening to you that God will save all of humanity, kinda takes away your "special" status.
QuoteThe sacrifice of Jesus Christ is the means by which an infinitely holy and just God can commune with his wayward creature man, conditional upon man's obedient response to God's overture of salvation.
This whole statement is nonsense. So Jesus had to die so that God could gain access to man? Then man must be obedient of his own free-will to something he may not have even heard of?
Jesus died, to become the final sin offering and do away with blood sacrifices once and for all. SIN is taken care of irrespective if man acknowledges it or not. God has always desired relationship with His creation, and it is religious bigots like you that just like the Pharisees close up the mysteries with skewed misrepresentations of God and God's will. The problem with your POV, your view of free-will somehow is more powerful than that of God's and you feel that this free-will can somehow ursurp the will of God. We do not choose/find God, He chooses/finds us, there are so many parables to support this. A shepherd that leaves the 99 in search of one wayward should not only demonstrate the measure God will go to to lose not even one but should also show that 99% is not good enough. Sadly your POV has God being satisfied with less than 5%. Do the math brother.
Est. population till today 10Bn.
Today's Population 6.7Bn
Todays Christians 2Bn
Catholics 1Bn
Born-Again 500M = 7.64%
Thus your conditional POV shows a pretty ineffective God.
QuoteA second major flaw of Universalism is its failure to realize the role of freewill in salvation. Every passage of Scripture that tells the reader to do anything presumes the ability of that reader to exercise his free will.
I have addressed the free-will issue but you say "Every passage of Scripture that tells the reader to do anything presumes the ability of that reader to exercise his free will."
Staying with that, God tells us to forgive our enemies, yet He Himself, by your POV is unable to do likewise? We are thus held to a higher standard than what God holds Himself to?
QuoteThe wonderful invitation of Jesus in Revelation 22:17 would be a horrible farce if mankind was unable to use his freewill to accept and comply with our Lord's invitation. "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Be coming!" And the one hearing, let him say, "Be coming!" And the one thirsting, let him come. The one desiring, let him take [the] water of life without cost.
How can one hear or see or thirst if it has not been given yet by the Father? All this passage says what rewards await, it does not imply choice.
QuoteOnly those who exercise their freewill to do the will of God have any legitimate hope of spending eternity in heaven. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).
Again taken out of context:
Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!
Now who do you suppose will prophesy, do deliverance and mighty works in the name of the Lord? Atheists? Hindus? Buddhists? Christians?
See all of the hell verses you espouse were directed at the religious of the day, even today that is still relevant.
QuoteAll others will be consigned to the alternative eternal destination of which the Bible speaks. Unfortunately, the majority of mankind through neglect, ignorance or open rebellion will be lost (Matthew 7:13-14).
Again out of context:
Mat 7:6 Do not give that which is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and tear you.
Mat 7:7 Ask and it shall be given to you; seek and you shall find; knock and it shall be opened to you.
Mat 7:8 For each one who asks receives; and he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, if his son asks a loaf, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he asks a fish, will he give him a snake?
Mat 7:11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father in Heaven give good things to those who ask Him?
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things, whatever you desire that men should do to you, do even so to them; for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Mat 7:13 Go in through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there are who go in through it.
Mat 7:14 Because narrow is the gate and constricted is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
This is speaking about walking righteously, doing good to others, many do not do this as it is against our carnal nature. Once we have the Holy Spirit, it is possible and this is all about the rewards in this life. It is not about salvation being a narrow road.
Well I suppose if you hold to the 1611 KJV, then it will render differently.
Suggestion:
Pray the Father reveals His Real Love to you. Take off your hell dark glasses and read scripture again. You will see that God is Love and He will reconcile all mankind to himself.
Your gospel is a CCPC one "Conditional, Cherry Picked, Calvinist"
If Jesus said I will draw all men unto Me then He is either a liar or He can do it. Your problem is that when every knee will bow to the Glory of God, the glory you seek is not for God but for your vengeful self.
THERE IS NO HELL.
Stop aspiring to a pie-in-the-sky heaven. The Kingdom is already established here on earth, enter in.
Blessings
QuotePersonally, I wish that everyone would be saved eternally. Such, though, is not realistic in view of the conditional element of salvation and the often misguided freewill of man.
Well, my friend, the salvation of Jehovah is rooted wholly & firmly in Himself. Repentance is "given" to us, faith is not from ourselves, but is the "faith of Jesus Christ", in fact, nothing but nothing of the heavenly Realm originates from/in ourselves!
End your wishing for everyone to be saved eternally. End it now: wishing by mortals bathed in mortality is like whistling by the graveyard. But our Father has declared what His wishes are. What do you think are the odds of those wishes coming to fulness?
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour: Who will have all mankind to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one intermediary between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself as a ransom for all mankind to be testified in due time.""Who will have all mankind to be saved..."
Will have = Thelo=To will. To have in mind. To intend. To purpose.
To be resolved and determined.
To desire/ to wish/ to love/ to be fond of doing.
To take delight & pleasure in doing.
Thelo = A strengthened from of "haireomai" (to take for oneself)
Jesus Christ declared "I will/ thelo rise again." This was no mere wish, I wish I could rise again, I would like to rise again, but alas, it is only a wish. I thelo rise again!
Dr. Marvin Vincent: New Testament Word Studies"Who will have all men to be saved (ov pantav anqrwpouv qelei swqhnai). Literally: who willeth all men, etc. As who, or seeing that He, giving the previous statement...prayer to God for all is acceptable to Him, because He wills the salvation of all.
Qelei willeth, marking a determinate purpose." "Why all this stress is laid on man's will to ruin himself, rather than on God's will to save? Is man the pivot on which all hinges? To me it is bad philosophy, and worse theology, not to recognize God as Centre; and His will and purpose as supreme." Thomas Allin
QuoteIf were equally true that there is no eternal hell, Christian zeal would not be necessary.
Search= eternal hell ="Your search query for 'eternal hell' did not return any results. Please modify your search query and try again."
If the basis for your "Christian zeal" is based on "eternal hell", your foundation, my friend, is totally misplaced. This will likely come as a terrible shock to you, but hell is consummated in the Lake of Fire and Deity. Can you tell us how your term "eternal hell" can be consummated in the Lake of Theos/ Pur?
"Some have asked what good does it do to believe that God will save all men. You might as well ask what good it does to believe that God will save some men... Every evangelist believes that it is God's will to save some men during this present time, or he would not be an evanglist. And if a man does not believe that God will save any men past this present age, what does he expect to be doing in the ages to come? To what end, then, is such a man's "sonship" ministry? Why strive and labor to be a Son, to set creation free, if what God is accomplishing in redemption during this present age is all there is...If there is no out-working of redemption in the ages to come, no extension, nor expansion of the kingdom of God beyond the formation of the Body of Christ, then why not settle for the fundamentalist's version of heaven and content ourselves with spending eternity shouting up and down the golden streets, waving palm branches and strumming harps?" -J. Preston Eby-
QuoteHistorically, the early church was not "dominated" by the doctrine of Universalism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaff-Herzog_Encyclopedia_of_Religious_Knowledge
Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia Of Religious Knowledgehttp://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/encyc/encyc13/htm/TOC.htm
Universalism: The Majority Belief Of The Early Churchhttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/encyc12/Page_96.html
"Under the instruction of these great teachers many other theologians believed in universal salvation; and indeed the whole Eastern Church until after 500 A.D. were inclined to it."
"In the West this doctrine had fewer adherents and was never accepted by the Church at large. In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria , Antioch, Cæsarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is unknown. Doederlein says that "In proportion as any man was eminent in learning in Christian antiquity, the more did he cherish and defend the hope of the termination of future torments." In the dark ages Universalism almost disappeared, but in the ninth century it had one great representative, John Scotus Erigena (see Scotus Erigena, Johannes), who was the chief Christian luminary of his time. In the Middle Ages, some of the lesser mystics and probably Johann Tauler and Jan van Ruysbroeck (qq.v.), and one leading scholastic, Albertus Magnus (q.v.), were Universalists. In the times of the Reformation Universalists were found among Anabaptists, Lollards, and Protestant mystics; and later there were increasing numbers of individual believers in this doctrine in all northern European countries, including such men as Kant, Schleiermacher, Ritschl and many of his followers, Archbishop Tillotson, Tennyson, the Brownings, Wordsworth, and Coleridge.
Who Was Rev. Philip Schaff D.D.?http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2065/is_n1_v47/ai_16420083/pg_1
Career of the man whom theologians regarded as one of the greatest teachers on Church History http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9F03E5DC173EEF33A25752C2A9669D94629ED7CF
Who Was Johann J. Hertzoghttp://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9040271/Johann-Jakob-Herzog
Universalism: The Prevailing DoctrineHERE (http://richardwaynegarganta.com/first500years.htm)
QuoteNot only are copious citations given from the ancient Universalists themselves, but abstracts and compendiums of their opinions, and testimonials as to their scholarship and saintliness, are presented from the most eminent authors who have written of them. No equal number of the church's early saints has ever received such glowing eulogies from so many scholars and critics as the ancient Universalists have extorted from such authors as Socrates, Neander, Mosheim, Huet, Dorner, Dietelmaier, Beecher, Schaff, Plumptre, Bigg, Farrar, Bunsen, Cave, Westcott, Robertson, Butler, Allen, De Pressense, Gieseler, Lardner, Hagenbach, Blunt, and others, not professed Universalists.
QuoteGod cannot save a disobedient soul...
Absolutely. Nor will He need too. The facts are these:
1. Our Father has declared all knees will bow to Him, all tongues confess to Him.
2. The confession is not "at" the sound of Jesus Name, but
in/en the Name of Jesus, and to the great glory of God the Father.
3. The confession is not by rote or perfuctory genuflections, but in union with the Name of all names.
4. The confession is one bathed in worship, praise, celebration and thanksgiving.
5. The confession is by all beings, in all dimensions of the universe: celestial, terrestial and subterrean.
6. The confession is not forced, but in willing worship and celebration.
7. "As I live saith the Lord"....the foundation of the confession, "by MY Life I have sworn!"
Phil. 2:10,11 QuoteIt is because of this also that God has so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other name, In order that in the Name of Jesus (so that in adoration of the Name of Jesus) every knee should bow, of beings in the highest heavens, of those on the earth, and of those in the underworld, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
kavmptw = bow= Used of worshippers.
To bow one's self.
Confess= ejxomologevwConfess/ profess.
A. To acknowledge openly and joyfully.
B. To celebrate/ to give praise to.
Exomologeo Rooted In oJmologevw
oJmologevw= To confess/ declare.
A. To profess/ declare openly and freely.
B. To profess one's self the worshipper of one.
C. To praise and celebrate.
"Hina en onomo lesous pas gonu kampto epouranios kai epigeious kai katachthonios kai pas glossa hoti lesous Christos kurios eis doxa Theos Pater"
In the Name/ Within the Name -Jonathan Mitchell Greek N.T.- 9. For this reason, God also lifts Him up above (highly exalts Him; elevates Him over) and by grace gives to Him (graces on Him) the Name -- the one over and above every name! --
10. to the end that within The Name: Jesus! (or: in the name of {or: belonging to} Jesus), EVERY KNEE -- of the men upon the heavens (of those belonging to the super-heavens) and of the men existing upon the earth and of the men dwelling down under the ground (or: pertaining to subterranean ones) -- may bend (should bow) in worship or prayer,
11. and EVERY TONGUE may speak out the same thing (should openly agree, confess and acclaim) that Jesus Christ Lord <= Yahweh?> -- into glory of Father God (or: unto Father God's reputation)!