These are my questions:
1.) If adam and Eve was naked before sin, they didn't wear cloth on...so that mean the angel in heaven was naked right? But after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, God gave them some cloth on, does that the angel wear robe? After the new earth come, are going to wear cloth on or be naked because we are perfect, we don't need to feel ashamed? If that true, we have to use sheep's wool to make clothes.
However, in heaven, Jesus wear a robes....were it sheep's wool or just strange fabric that was not seen on earth or Jesus wearing a plastic robe?
2.) On new earth, do we still need to eat or not? because death is gone, we will never die, so why we need a fresh and blood for? The heart pump ever second to stay alive, we need to breathe, we need lung, if none of this inside our body, we died, so there no point because God said old things has passed away, new thing will come....I wonder.
3.) If "they will not remember a former things" mean losing our memory of family? losing our "be yourself"? or losing something human has? I don't know but I rather not lose memory of how I met my wife or how my mom gave me birthday stuff, I hope those memory stay forever.
4.) I know this sound depression but what the point of photo album? Taking picture of familys, pets or vacations won't matter after you died, I moved into this old house and found a old album that was not mine or my family's, it show alot 50's family in the past and I have to throw it away in the garbage because no one want to reclaim it because the family doesn't exist, so what the point of photo when we died and to a new life, we will not get teddy bear or some old painting or some old stuff, it not like God walk up to you and said: "Here your teddy bear you left behind, do you want it?"
GREAT QUESTIONS! :icon_flower:
Quote from: IceDash on March 09, 2009, 02:49:21 AM
it not like God walk up to you and said: "Here your teddy bear you left behind, do you want it?"
But...
maybe he will... :laughing7:
You just never know.
I'll come back later and post more. Great topics!
Quote3.) If "they will not remember a former things" mean losing our memory of family? losing our "be yourself"? or losing something human has? I don't know but I rather not lose memory of how I met my wife or how my mom gave me birthday stuff, I hope those memory stay forever.
I think this is mainly about bad things.
Like Jesus daily reminding you, you stole a banana 5 million years ago.
If you completely loose memory you will also forget for example history of earth including the part Jesus played in it.
There are no adjectives superlative enough within the English language to describe the Love that emanates from God.
It is like a Tidal wave that crashes into a beach and washes inland carrying all before it, nothing can with stand it, everything is overwhelmed by it.
The worst of enemies jump for joy and Love each other in his presence, they just cannot help themselves.
Once upon a time I used to be a Womaniser.....and I must confess I fell in Love many times.
We are not given in marriage in the next life...I am so looking forward to sharing my capacity for Love with all equally again and forever.
Glory be to God!
Quote from: IceDash on March 09, 2009, 02:49:21 AM
These are my questions:
1.) If adam and Eve was naked before sin, they didn't wear cloth on...so that mean the angel in heaven was naked right? But after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, God gave them some cloth on, does that the angel wear robe? After the new earth come, are going to wear cloth on or be naked because we are perfect, we don't need to feel ashamed? If that true, we have to use sheep's wool to make clothes.
However, in heaven, Jesus wear a robes....were it sheep's wool or just strange fabric that was not seen on earth or Jesus wearing a plastic robe?
Most likely the glory which shielded them left when they sinned and then they saw they were naked.
People on the new earth will still wear clothes because there will still be winter/summer/sping and fall so they will need protection from the elements. This may not be the case with us of the nations who are transported into the heavens.
As far as what Jesus wears, it is just good enough to know He wears good threads probably from Lord & Taylors. :winkgrin:
Quote
2.) On new earth, do we still need to eat or not? because death is gone, we will never die, so why we need a fresh and blood for? The heart pump ever second to stay alive, we need to breathe, we need lung, if none of this inside our body, we died, so there no point because God said old things has passed away, new thing will come....I wonder.
Those on the new earth will still need to eat, still need houses etc. We of the nations who are transported into the heavens will no longer need to eat because God is going to dispose of the bowels and foods:
1Co 6:13 "Foods for the bowels and the bowels for foods, yet God will be discarding these as well as those . . . ."
3.) If "they will not remember a former things" mean losing our memory of family? losing our "be yourself"? or losing something human has? I don't know but I rather not lose memory of how I met my wife or how my mom gave me birthday stuff, I hope those memory stay forever.
Quote4.) I know this sound depression but what the point of photo album? Taking picture of familys, pets or vacations won't matter after you died, I moved into this old house and found a old album that was not mine or my family's, it show alot 50's family in the past and I have to throw it away in the garbage because no one want to reclaim it because the family doesn't exist, so what the point of photo when we died and to a new life, we will not get teddy bear or some old painting or some old stuff, it not like God walk up to you and said: "Here your teddy bear you left behind, do you want it?"
In the heavens we won't need a photo album because we will have a perfect memory. We will have photographic memories. It will be a kodac moment for sure!
Hello Tony...
The capacity for Love you share with others, never dies, not even in the presence of a higher love.
Peace
Quote from: Tony N on March 09, 2009, 05:21:19 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 09, 2009, 02:49:21 AM
These are my questions:
1.) If adam and Eve was naked before sin, they didn't wear cloth on...so that mean the angel in heaven was naked right? But after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, God gave them some cloth on, does that the angel wear robe? After the new earth come, are going to wear cloth on or be naked because we are perfect, we don't need to feel ashamed? If that true, we have to use sheep's wool to make clothes.
However, in heaven, Jesus wear a robes....were it sheep's wool or just strange fabric that was not seen on earth or Jesus wearing a plastic robe?
Most likely the glory which shielded them left when they sinned and then they saw they were naked.
People on the new earth will still wear clothes because there will still be winter/summer/sping and fall so they will need protection from the elements. This may not be the case with us of the nations who are transported into the heavens.
As far as what Jesus wears, it is just good enough to know He wears good threads probably from Lord & Taylors. :winkgrin:
Quote
2.) On new earth, do we still need to eat or not? because death is gone, we will never die, so why we need a fresh and blood for? The heart pump ever second to stay alive, we need to breathe, we need lung, if none of this inside our body, we died, so there no point because God said old things has passed away, new thing will come....I wonder.
Those on the new earth will still need to eat, still need houses etc. We of the nations who are transported into the heavens will no longer need to eat because God is going to dispose of the bowels and foods:
1Co 6:13 "Foods for the bowels and the bowels for foods, yet God will be discarding these as well as those . . . ."
3.) If "they will not remember a former things" mean losing our memory of family? losing our "be yourself"? or losing something human has? I don't know but I rather not lose memory of how I met my wife or how my mom gave me birthday stuff, I hope those memory stay forever.
Quote4.) I know this sound depression but what the point of photo album? Taking picture of familys, pets or vacations won't matter after you died, I moved into this old house and found a old album that was not mine or my family's, it show alot 50's family in the past and I have to throw it away in the garbage because no one want to reclaim it because the family doesn't exist, so what the point of photo when we died and to a new life, we will not get teddy bear or some old painting or some old stuff, it not like God walk up to you and said: "Here your teddy bear you left behind, do you want it?"
In the heavens we won't need a photo album because we will have a perfect memory. We will have photographic memories. It will be a kodac moment for sure!
I know that, I read it in the bible but I am still wondering if we really need to eat, what kind of food we eat? We can't kill a cow (blood and violence) to make hamburger :laughing7:
We will never die, so why we need to eat anyway or wear cloth because of chill or heat? If we feel chill, that's because our nerves, if that happen, if we chill, then pain exist! So how that work?
I think we will eat for pleasure not for necessity. Jesus ate after he was resurrected.
CHB
Quote from: IceDash on March 09, 2009, 10:34:32 PM
We will never die, so why we need to eat anyway or wear cloth because of chill or heat? If we feel chill, that's because our nerves, if that happen, if we chill, then pain exist! So how that work?
ha! That's a great question, IceDash..
Joh 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Perhaps Spirit can become flesh, but Flesh can not become spirit?
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
:dontknow:
Paul
Quote from: Pierac on March 10, 2009, 03:55:46 AM
Joh 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Perhaps Spirit can become flesh, but Flesh can not become spirit?
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
:dontknow:
Paul
lol, talk about my head exploding... :laughing7:
I wear clothes to protect others.
Quote from: IceDash on March 09, 2009, 02:49:21 AM
After the new earth come, are going to wear cloth on or be naked because we are perfect,
That wouldn't be good. Just spend a billion years of purification in the LoF and the moment I get in the city I get kicked out because of sinful toughts :duck:
QuoteIf that true, we have to use sheep's wool to make clothes.
Yeah, we are all wolves in sheep clothes :tongue:
Made me laugh to . . until I thought about it . . .then I found myself in a profound agreement. God saved the world . . .cuz he put some clothes on us!!!
Quote from: IceDash on March 09, 2009, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 09, 2009, 05:21:19 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 09, 2009, 02:49:21 AM
These are my questions:
1.) If adam and Eve was naked before sin, they didn't wear cloth on...so that mean the angel in heaven was naked right? But after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, God gave them some cloth on, does that the angel wear robe? After the new earth come, are going to wear cloth on or be naked because we are perfect, we don't need to feel ashamed? If that true, we have to use sheep's wool to make clothes.
However, in heaven, Jesus wear a robes....were it sheep's wool or just strange fabric that was not seen on earth or Jesus wearing a plastic robe?
Most likely the glory which shielded them left when they sinned and then they saw they were naked.
People on the new earth will still wear clothes because there will still be winter/summer/sping and fall so they will need protection from the elements. This may not be the case with us of the nations who are transported into the heavens.
As far as what Jesus wears, it is just good enough to know He wears good threads probably from Lord & Taylors. :winkgrin:
Quote
2.) On new earth, do we still need to eat or not? because death is gone, we will never die, so why we need a fresh and blood for? The heart pump ever second to stay alive, we need to breathe, we need lung, if none of this inside our body, we died, so there no point because God said old things has passed away, new thing will come....I wonder.
Those on the new earth will still need to eat, still need houses etc. We of the nations who are transported into the heavens will no longer need to eat because God is going to dispose of the bowels and foods:
1Co 6:13 "Foods for the bowels and the bowels for foods, yet God will be discarding these as well as those . . . ."
3.) If "they will not remember a former things" mean losing our memory of family? losing our "be yourself"? or losing something human has? I don't know but I rather not lose memory of how I met my wife or how my mom gave me birthday stuff, I hope those memory stay forever.
Quote4.) I know this sound depression but what the point of photo album? Taking picture of familys, pets or vacations won't matter after you died, I moved into this old house and found a old album that was not mine or my family's, it show alot 50's family in the past and I have to throw it away in the garbage because no one want to reclaim it because the family doesn't exist, so what the point of photo when we died and to a new life, we will not get teddy bear or some old painting or some old stuff, it not like God walk up to you and said: "Here your teddy bear you left behind, do you want it?"
In the heavens we won't need a photo album because we will have a perfect memory. We will have photographic memories. It will be a kodac moment for sure!
I know that, I read it in the bible but I am still wondering if we really need to eat, what kind of food we eat? We can't kill a cow (blood and violence) to make hamburger :laughing7:
We of the nations who are going to be with Christ among the celestials will not need food. The majority of inhabitants on the new earth will need food for they are not immortal because they still need the leaves of the tree of life for their infirmities. Also Isaiah 65:17 onward says much about people dying on the new earth.
QuoteWe will never die, so why we need to eat anyway or wear cloth because of chill or heat? If we feel chill, that's because our nerves, if that happen, if we chill, then pain exist! So how that work?
Right, the believers of the nations who are caught up to meet the Lord in the air won't need clothes or food. The ones living on the earth will.
Hey ID,
We will eat in the heavenlies...our body will totally absorb
what food we eat and there will be no discharge of waste.
There will be no cold for we are children of LIGHT and the
Light that we are...brings warmth and light..in any
enviroment. Father will in time send us to our own 'estate'
inheritance..for our very own possession[think Israel tribe
inherititance] By merely 'taking thought' we will groom
and keep our estates[all provisions for our eternal life rests
with this portion He bequeth's us] There will also be animal
life there....no need to worry about any unclean thoughts
defiling your mind or heart..nor sin defiling you.
Great contentment,peace love and joy will be our portion
forever ...our hearts will sing continually His praises for His
great goodness to us. There will be male and female also
we shall be brother-sister pairs [1 whole] sex nor procreation
will be an issue.....but I have a notion that something 'more
rewarding' than sex will transpire between God's sons and
daughters...a special HOLY LOVE THAT NOTHING EARTHLY CAN
BEGIN TO DESCRIBE...GREAT RESPECT FOR ALL.
If you should rise to the heavenlies,while people are still on
earth..you will serve as spiritual mentors and guardians to
those who are to inherit also[children of light]
We will all have our educaton and training finished by Our
Father when we rise...we will have perfect recall of what we
have been told[photographic memory]and be fully equipped
to do anything asked of us without difficulty
Being as we are a NEW CREATURE we shall also get a new
name that reflects our NEW DELIGHTFUL NATURE.
In time any memory we have about residing on the earth will
fade
We have many,many wonderful things laid up in heaven for
us,by Our Loving Father. Our Family is HUGE..it will take
eternity to get to know one another
Quote from: sheila on March 10, 2009, 07:47:20 PM
Hey ID,
We will eat in the heavenlies...our body will totally absorb
what food we eat and there will be no discharge of waste.
There will be no cold for we are children of LIGHT and the
Light that we are...brings warmth and light..in any
enviroment. Father will in time send us to our own 'estate'
inheritance..for our very own possession[think Israel tribe
inherititance] By merely 'taking thought' we will groom
and keep our estates[all provisions for our eternal life rests
with this portion He bequeth's us] There will also be animal
life there....no need to worry about any unclean thoughts
defiling your mind or heart..nor sin defiling you.
Great contentment,peace love and joy will be our portion
forever ...our hearts will sing continually His praises for His
great goodness to us. There will be male and female also
we shall be brother-sister pairs [1 whole] sex nor procreation
will be an issue.....but I have a notion that something 'more
rewarding' than sex will transpire between God's sons and
daughters...a special HOLY LOVE THAT NOTHING EARTHLY CAN
BEGIN TO DESCRIBE...GREAT RESPECT FOR ALL.
If you should rise to the heavenlies,while people are still on
earth..you will serve as spiritual mentors and guardians to
those who are to inherit also[children of light]
We will all have our educaton and training finished by Our
Father when we rise...we will have perfect recall of what we
have been told[photographic memory]and be fully equipped
to do anything asked of us without difficulty
Being as we are a NEW CREATURE we shall also get a new
name that reflects our NEW DELIGHTFUL NATURE.
In time any memory we have about residing on the earth will
fade
We have many,many wonderful things laid up in heaven for
us,by Our Loving Father. Our Family is HUGE..it will take
eternity to get to know one another
oooh good stuff..............
and yet it will be even more and better than your lovely post describes :gwink:
Quote from: sheila on March 10, 2009, 07:47:20 PM
Hey ID,
We will eat in the heavenlies...our body will totally absorb
what food we eat and there will be no discharge of waste.
Sheila, why did you write the above when the Scriptures states this:
1Co 6:13
Foods for the bowels and the bowels for foods, yet God will be discarding these as well as those. Now the body is not for prostitution, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body."
Quote from: Tony N on March 10, 2009, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: sheila on March 10, 2009, 07:47:20 PM
Hey ID,
We will eat in the heavenlies...our body will totally absorb
what food we eat and there will be no discharge of waste.
Sheila, why did you write the above when the Scriptures states this:
1Co 6:13 Foods for the bowels and the bowels for foods, yet God will be discarding these as well as those. Now the body is not for prostitution, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body."
the food FOR the bowels and bowels FOR food will be disgarded dosent mean heavenly food will be disgarded.
while i agree we ""might"" not eat, it sure would be a disappointment not to.
there certianly wont be ""food laws""
aint worried though.
peace
chuckt
Because Tony, he is speaking of the corruptible in that instance
corruptible bodies eating[consuming] corruptible food.
The incorruptible is different it is eternal
Quote from: chuckt on March 10, 2009, 08:25:18 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 10, 2009, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: sheila on March 10, 2009, 07:47:20 PM
Hey ID,
We will eat in the heavenlies...our body will totally absorb
what food we eat and there will be no discharge of waste.
Sheila, why did you write the above when the Scriptures states this:
1Co 6:13 Foods for the bowels and the bowels for foods, yet God will be discarding these as well as those. Now the body is not for prostitution, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body."
the food FOR the bowels and bowels FOR food will be disgarded dosent mean heavenly food will be disgarded.
while i agree we ""might"" not eat, it sure would be a disappointment not to.
there certianly wont be ""food laws""
aint worried though.
peace
chuckt
Yo, chuckt, what up?
I believe that verse is telling me that when our bodies are changed from corruptible to incorruptible that God will be discarding our bowels. Since He will be discarding our bowels He will be discarding food as well since there will be no bowels to draw nourishment from the foods there will be no need for the foods. We, rather, will be dwelling in light and our bodies will be receiving all the life giving force from Him Who is light.
You dig, man? :laughing7:
You hip to the heavenly trip?
well then Tony,
why didn't He discard Jesus bowels? He ate..as well as other
angels that visited Abraham.
I guess you'll just have to wait to see if it's true...the end
of time will tell. There will be fruit trees,bushes,grain and all
manner of things in heaven. We will expel energy by mere
thought to our enviroment..we will 'recoup' the energy back from
the enviroment[estate]...it is like the water cycle...dew
evaporates into sky..falls to earth again.What we eat will be a
self-sustaining from the inheritance He has for us. Otherwise
we would deplete or not have life in ourselves
This 'literal" thinking is where I do struggle with much. What benefit is there for the Bible/God/HG to tell us that our PHYSICAL bowels will be removed? It's seems to be such a mute point when we do this to ourselves. It's an old soapbox but it keeps coming back up . . .the flesh - - profiteth- - NOTHING.
As I write that, I'm immediately reminded that responses such as what I'm doing here are the kind that add fuel to a not so big fire . .to the point where it can be too big a fire for the mods to remain silent on. So . . .
May I politely say . . . I adamantly disagree that the physical is to be the focus of any message Scripture refers to . . and just leave it at that.
We already have that other body right now--at least that has been my experience of it--
We are just not aware of it most of the time...
40And [there are] heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies: but different is the glory of the heavenly, different that of the earthly:
48Such as he made of dust, such also those made of dust; and such as the heavenly [one], such also the heavenly [ones].
49And as we have borne the image of the [one] made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly [one].
--1 Cor 15
Quote from: Nathan on March 10, 2009, 09:59:39 PM
This 'literal" thinking is where I do struggle with much. What benefit is there for the Bible/God/HG to tell us that our PHYSICAL bowels will be removed? It's seems to be such a mute point when we do this to ourselves. It's an old soapbox but it keeps coming back up . . .the flesh - - profiteth- - NOTHING.
As I write that, I'm immediately reminded that responses such as what I'm doing here are the kind that add fuel to a not so big fire . .to the point where it can be too big a fire for the mods to remain silent on. So . . .
May I politely say . . . I adamantly disagree that the physical is to be the focus of any message Scripture refers to . . and just leave it at that.
Nathan, the pysical surely is the focus when it is the focus:
1Co 7:4 The wife has not the jurisdiction of her own body, but the husband, yet likewise the husband also has not the jurisdiction of his own body, but the wife."
That's physical.
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
1 Cor 15
49And as we have borne the image of the [one] made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly [one].
Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
I don't know if this helps anything or makes it worse; but, He said, "Behold! I make all things new," not, I am making all new things.
Maybe Tony knows; but, I can't certify which is actually meant or not.
"And He Who is sitting on the throne said, 'Lo! New am I making all!'" (Rv 21:5, CLV)
In that He'll eventually collapse the entire cosmos, folding it up for a keepsake ("memorial") I suppose He will create new worlds. It seems first, however, for now, "...if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive [old] passed by. Lo! there has come new! Yet all is of God..." (2 Co 5:17-18, CLV)
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
:cloud9: Good posts, guys......I mentioned this in another post somewhere, but I can see the napkin that was over His face/nature/head, that was found FOLDED UP, as that creation man/old heaven/head that WAS, as no more.
I think the message there was if we die to self, so too will our old man nature/head be folded up like a napkin, awaiting the return of the glorified man. Just a stray thought.....Blessings....
Quote from: reFORMer on March 11, 2009, 12:40:30 AM
I don't know if this helps anything or makes it worse; but, He said, "Behold! I make all things new," not, I am making all new things.
Maybe Tony knows; but, I can't certify which is actually meant or not.
"And He Who is sitting on the throne said, 'Lo! New am I making all!'" (Rv 21:5, CLV)
In that He'll eventually collapse the entire cosmos, folding it up for a keepsake ("memorial") I suppose He will create new worlds. It seems first, however, for now, "...if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive [old] passed by. Lo! there has come new! Yet all is of God..." (2 Co 5:17-18, CLV)
That is what has been in my heart... and I really love the way you worded that!
1.) Some of the old rabbis taught the world would be returned to the state it was in when we were in the garden of Eden, only cleansed of sin and evil.
2.) Others believed it would be returned to the original chaos and then recreated.
3.) Some others taught the complete destruction of the entire world with totally new heavens and earth.
It seems to me that all three may be envisioned in Scripture. #1 has begun within us in the regeneration of the Holy Ghost. This will eventually result in this world being filled with the Glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea, something we can, at least at times, step into now. #2 is very little taught, but Zephaniah 1:2-3 and Isaiah 24:1,3 indicate it. #3 is suggested in Hebrews 1:10-12 from Psalm 102: 25-27 and Isaiah 24:19-20.
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
iD,
Humans eat for survival + for fun/taste.
Jesus only eats for fun/taste.
Quote from: Tony N on March 10, 2009, 08:49:59 PM
Quote from: chuckt on March 10, 2009, 08:25:18 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 10, 2009, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: sheila on March 10, 2009, 07:47:20 PM
Hey ID,
We will eat in the heavenlies...our body will totally absorb
what food we eat and there will be no discharge of waste.
Sheila, why did you write the above when the Scriptures states this:
1Co 6:13 Foods for the bowels and the bowels for foods, yet God will be discarding these as well as those. Now the body is not for prostitution, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body."
the food FOR the bowels and bowels FOR food will be disgarded dosent mean heavenly food will be disgarded.
while i agree we ""might"" not eat, it sure would be a disappointment not to.
there certianly wont be ""food laws""
aint worried though.
peace
chuckt
Yo, chuckt, what up?
I believe that verse is telling me that when our bodies are changed from corruptible to incorruptible that God will be discarding our bowels. Since He will be discarding our bowels He will be discarding food as well since there will be no bowels to draw nourishment from the foods there will be no need for the foods. We, rather, will be dwelling in light and our bodies will be receiving all the life giving force from Him Who is light.
You dig, man? :laughing7:
You hip to the heavenly trip?
good morning Tony.
thats sorta my point, any eating
will not be for nourishment. if there is indeed eating.
do you think Jesus need to go to the boys room before the ascention?
its no big deal to me.
God bless
chuckt
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 11, 2009, 07:27:04 AM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
iD,
Humans eat for survival + for fun/taste.
Jesus only eats for fun/taste.
I think there's more to the eating thing than just pleasure. I see it as relationship also. The church has taken the act of communion and pretty much stripped it down to where it's just a ritual with a swallow of grape juice and a cracker. But if we read the entire context of 1 Corinthians 11, we'll see that it wasn't about the cracker and grape juice only, but that it was including an entire meal. There's more to life than just going through the motions of sacrifice . . .there are also insturctions to "eat" portions of what's been sacrificed. . .there are drink offerings as well.
The eating and drinking with one another for me, is just as important as the cracker and the cup. There is much to be said for one to use one's hands to create a meal for another to eat of. Revelation of who Chirst was came when he sat down to eat with the two disciples. Abraham prepared a meal for the angels that approached him as they discussed the salvation of Sodom and Gomorah . . .the examples are all through Scripture of the importance of a meal being prepared for the guest. It's all stemming from the connection of honoring one another and relationship.
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
you might have to
eat those words one day :laughhand:
It isn't going to be Jesus with one kind of body and ourselves with another. Scripture speaks of: "...the Lord, Jesus Christ, Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory, in accord with the operation which enables Him even to subject all to Himself. (Php 3:20-21, CLV) There will be differences in degrees of glory, "...for star is excelling star in glory. Thus also is the resurrection of the dead.(1 Cor 15:41-42, CLV) There's nothing in Scripture promising an earthly reward to people who are racially "Jewish" and a heavenly reward to those who are racially "Gentiles." Not only is there no such thing as a "Jewish" race, having intermarried from earliest times, "Judaism" is and always was a religion. God never was a racist. That, "The flesh profits nothing" is not anything new. "Not all are Israel that are of Israel." "...those of faith, these are sons of Abraham." (Ga 3:7, CLV) We gentiles goyim or,nations, are grafted into the same tree and are now true "Jews."
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rm 2:28-29, AV)
"For not that which is apparent is the Jew, nor yet that which is apparent in flesh is circumcision; but that which is hidden is the Jew, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, whose applause is not of men, but of God." (Rm 2:28-29, CLV)
Also...
Romans 4:13,and 16 (CLV)...
13 For not through law is the promise to Abraham, or to his Seed, for him to be enjoyer of the allotment of the world, but through faith's righteousness.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it may accord with grace, for the promise to be confirmed to the entire seed, not to those of the law only, but to those also of the faith of Abraham, who is father of us all...
Romans 4:13,and 16 (AV)...
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all...
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?
cp
Quote from: reFORMer on March 11, 2009, 05:19:28 PM
It isn't going to be Jesus with one kind of body and ourselves with another. Scripture speaks of: "...the Lord, Jesus Christ, Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory, in accord with the operation which enables Him even to subject all to Himself. (Php 3:20-21, CLV) There will be differences in degrees of glory, "...for star is excelling star in glory. Thus also is the resurrection of the dead.(1 Cor 15:41-42, CLV) There's nothing in Scripture promising an earthly reward to people who are racially "Jewish" and a heavenly reward to those who are racially "Gentiles." Not only is there no such thing as a "Jewish" race, having intermarried from earliest times, "Judaism" is and always was a religion. God never was a racist. That, "The flesh profits nothing" is not anything new. "Not all are Israel that are of Israel." "...those of faith, these are sons of Abraham." (Ga 3:7, CLV) We gentiles goyim or,nations, are grafted into the same tree and are now true "Jews."
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rm 2:28-29, AV)
"For not that which is apparent is the Jew, nor yet that which is apparent in flesh is circumcision; but that which is hidden is the Jew, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, whose applause is not of men, but of God." (Rm 2:28-29, CLV)
Also...
Romans 4:13,and 16 (CLV)...
13 For not through law is the promise to Abraham, or to his Seed, for him to be enjoyer of the allotment of the world, but through faith's righteousness.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it may accord with grace, for the promise to be confirmed to the entire seed, not to those of the law only, but to those also of the faith of Abraham, who is father of us all...
Romans 4:13,and 16 (AV)...
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all...
And yet for us of the nations He will be discarding the food as well as the bowels of our new bodies.
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food just for the heck of it?
cp
That would be like wanting to go back to the fleshpots of Egypt once emancipated from bondage.
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?
cp
29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. --Luke 22
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?
cp
29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
--Luke 22
Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM. We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?
cp
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?
cp
29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
--Luke 22
Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM. We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving. I love this place! :laughing7:
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
:cloud9: Amen, Molly, I hope I'm not, either. As it was in the days of Noah.....in Noah's day only the wicked left the earth; the righteous were raised up above the waters of judgment of the flesh. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on March 11, 2009, 08:58:56 PM
:cloud9: Amen, Molly, I hope I'm not, either. As it was in the days of Noah.....in Noah's day only the wicked left the earth; the righteous were raised up above the waters of judgment of the flesh. Blessings....
Card, does that mean I can have a steak, medium rare, really thick, with Jesus on 'the other side'?
Please say yes!
cp
:cloud9: Jesus ate after He was glorified........that's all I know :dontknow:
Drink all the beer you want without getting drunk??? Not sure if it's worth drinking then, eh? :laughing7:
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 09:20:23 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on March 11, 2009, 08:58:56 PM
:cloud9: Amen, Molly, I hope I'm not, either. As it was in the days of Noah.....in Noah's day only the wicked left the earth; the righteous were raised up above the waters of judgment of the flesh. Blessings....
Card, does that mean I can have a steak, medium rare, really thick, with Jesus on 'the other side'?
Please say yes!
cp
You can do it right now.
Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?
cp
29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
--Luke 22
Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM. We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving. I love this place! :laughing7:
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
That is not very meek of you to say that :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.
Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
Quote from: Nathan on March 11, 2009, 09:25:04 PM
Drink all the beer you want without getting drunk??? Not sure if it's worth drinking then, eh? :laughing7:
Just empty a few bottles of spirit then.
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 09:44:31 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?
cp
29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
--Luke 22
Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM. We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving. I love this place! :laughing7:
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
That is not very meek of you to say that :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.
Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
Veering away again Paul . . . in the Spirit . . there is neither Jew nor Greek . . .male or female . . .we're all in that together. This literalist view of yours seems to shift around to support all your ideals from time to time.
In me is Christ . . .meekness is part of the nature of Christ . . . when I manifest meekness, I manifest Christ and yes, the meek shall 'inherit" the earth . . . it's another gift that we receive by way of relationship rather than earnings of labor.
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 09:44:31 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?
cp
29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
--Luke 22
Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM. We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving. I love this place! :laughing7:
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
That is not very meek of you to say that :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.
Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
I'm just standing on his promises. He made me love his physical world (sans bugs) for a reason. :laughing7:
How do you know I'm not one of those lost sheep of the house of Israel?
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 09:52:50 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 09:44:31 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?
cp
29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
--Luke 22
Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM. We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving. I love this place! :laughing7:
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
That is not very meek of you to say that :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.
Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
I'm just standing on his promises. He made me love his physical world (sans bugs) for a reason. :laughing7:
How do you know I'm not one of those lost sheep of the house of Israel?
Do you have wool?
Do you go "baaaa"?
Are you lost?
Is your house in Israel?
:cloud9: But who are those of Israel? Are they not those "men" (spirit) who have had the circumcision of their hearts, and have not known a woman (flesh)? Blessings....
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 09:57:10 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 09:52:50 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 09:44:31 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
We are all like sheep who have gone astray . . .
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?
cp
29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
--Luke 22
Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM. We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving. I love this place! :laughing7:
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
That is not very meek of you to say that :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.
Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
I'm just standing on his promises. He made me love his physical world (sans bugs) for a reason. :laughing7:
How do you know I'm not one of those lost sheep of the house of Israel?
Do you have wool?
Do you go "baaaa"?
Are you lost?
Is your house in Israel?
Don't know why this didn't post originally . . all I said was what Molly just said . . .we are all as lost sheep. He is the good shepherd . . . come on Tony, this is elementary even for me . . .
Quote from: TonyDo you have wool?
Do you go "baaaa"?
Are you lost?
Is your house in Israel?
Yes I am a sheep. I was lost. The house of Israel itself was lost to history. Nobody knows who they are except for God.
Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Quote from: Nathan on March 11, 2009, 09:58:39 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 09:57:10 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 09:52:50 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 09:44:31 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 11, 2009, 01:30:45 AM
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?
We are all like sheep who have gone astray . . .
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.
God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?
cp
29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
--Luke 22
Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM. We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving. I love this place! :laughing7:
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
That is not very meek of you to say that :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.
Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
I'm just standing on his promises. He made me love his physical world (sans bugs) for a reason. :laughing7:
How do you know I'm not one of those lost sheep of the house of Israel?
Do you have wool?
Do you go "baaaa"?
Are you lost?
Is your house in Israel?
Don't know why this didn't post originally . . all I said was what Molly just said . . .we are all as lost sheep. He is the good shepherd . . . come on Tony, this is elementary even for me . . .
We are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, never were and never will be. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those IN Israel whom Jesus came to seek and to save. That is what He said. Do you believe Him?
Quote from: tonyWe are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, never were and never will be. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those IN Israel whom Jesus came to seek and to save. That is what He said. Do you believe Him?
Those in Israel? You mean the present day, 50 year old country of Israel?
Then why would he send them to preach the gospel to the entire world?
And, where do we see any who call themselves 'Israel' or 'Jews' in present day, or even in the past, number more than the sand of the sea?
i have other sheep, which are not of this fold, them too,
I must bring
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 07:33:17 PM
And yet for us of the nations He will be discarding the food as well as the bowels of our new bodies.
The problem is to make that condition "for us of the nations," i.e., "us racially gentiles" with another assignment for the "racially Jewish" as rulership in the Millennium. I don't find that kind of thing directly stated in Scripture words. It seems there will be those yet being born of Adam at that time. Rather than death at the culmination of their earthly sojourn, they will normally be entering into a fulfilled Feast of Tabernacles under the ministry of immortals.
It seems that without the need to eat we may be able to, even without bowels as Jesus did after His resurrection. Something else happens to what we interact with by consuming. Another approach to the problem is to understand the resurrected Jesus was staying in a descended aspect for a while before He ascended. In ascension He comes as spirit to cohabit our bodies with us. At some point in ascension there are no more bowels? or, this is farther in the future for immortals? At any rate, it seem there are no bowels, possibly for a resurrected or transfigured body, but none certainly for ascended embodiment. (?)
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 08:48:22 PM
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?
cp
Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.
Respectfully,
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 08:48:22 PM
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?
cp
Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.
Respectfully,
cp
2Ti 3:16
All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."
1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that,
in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as
it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."
A. E. Knoch was very together with Bullinger early on. Bullinger is so into racial dipensationalism people even speak of Bullingerism. They had a falling out over UR. Tony's church group, I don't know the history, but they are very together with Knoch, though his group was in California. Tony could say if Knoch founded his church, though he was certainly influential in the forming of Tony's fellowship group. It's not just "literalism." It's a lot for which there is nothing stated in the text of Scripture at all. It is "Racial Dispensationaism." It's hard for me to understand why Knoch stayed there, considering how devoted he was to making our confession of faith using the actual words God the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known.
Epesians 2:11-18 (CLV) . . .
11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh -- who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands --
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier
15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;
16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it.
17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near,
18 for through Him we both have had the access, in one spirit, to the Father.
Racial Dispensationalism rebuilds the partition betweem Jew and Gentile that was torn down by Christ's death.
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 08:48:22 PM
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?
cp
Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.
Respectfully,
cp
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."
1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."
Good verses Tony but it doesn't say that the 66 books we refer to as Scripture are Scripture.
You base all of your life on what is written in what we call the Bible but how do we know that is what God wants us to do? Aren't there other God inspired words out there that can equip us and fit us for Gods work?
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the 66 books we call the Bible are what you are referring to when you quote the verses above?
cp
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 10:08:55 PM
We are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, never were and never will be. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those IN Israel whom Jesus came to seek and to save. That is what He said. Do you believe Him?
Tony, you are right. All of the Bible is for our learning and all of the things that happened to others are for our example but not all of the Bible pertains to us. Most of the Bible is for, to, and about Israel. Take the Law of Moses for instance, most would agree that the law was only for Israel, not Gentiles. Jesus Himself said "I am sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". Most of his message was for them.
CHB
Isaaih 49 a testimony about Jesus Christ
v5 and now the Lord says- he who formed me in the womb to
be his srvant,to bring back Jacob and gather Israel to himself,
for I am honored in the Lord and my God has been my
strength- he says;
IT IS TOO SMALL A THING FOR YOU TO BE MY SERVANT
TO RESTORE THE TRIBES OF JACOB AND BRING BACK
THOSE OF ISRAEL I HAVE KEPT
I WILL ALSO MAKE OU A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES,
THAT YOU MAY BRING MY SALVATION TO THE ENDS OF THE
EARTH. v 22 this is what the Sovereign Lord says;
SEE,I WILL BECKON TO THE GENTILES, I WILL LIFT UP
MY BANNER TO THE PEOPLES, THEY WILL BRING YOUR SONS
IN THEIR ARMS,AND CARRY YOUR DAUGHTERS ON THEIR
SHOULDERS.
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 08:48:22 PM
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?
cp
Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.
Respectfully,
cp
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."
1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."
Good verses Tony but it doesn't say that the 66 books we refer to as Scripture are Scripture.
You base all of your life on what is written in what we call the Bible but how do we know that is what God wants us to do? Aren't there other God inspired words out there that can equip us and fit us for Gods work?
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the 66 books we call the Bible are what you are referring to when you quote the verses above?
cp
All 66 books are holy Scripture.
Yes, of course I base all my life on what is written in what I call the bible. How do I know that is what God wants us to do that? I just quoted the verse that tells us to do that, that is how I know. :bigGrin: It does not specifically have to say "The 66 books call the Bible are inspired." But the Bible does say that ALL Scripture is inspired and I believe that the 66 books we have are what comprises ALL Scripture.
Quote from: reFORMer on March 11, 2009, 10:44:03 PM
A. E. Knoch was very together with Bullinger early on. Bullinger is so into racial dipensationalism people even speak of Bullingerism. They had a falling out over UR. Tony's church group, I don't know the history, but they are very together with Knoch, though his group was in California. Tony could say if Knoch founded his church, though he was certainly influential in the forming of Tony's fellowship group. It's not just "literalism." It's a lot for which there is nothing stated in the text of Scripture at all. It is "Racial Dispensationaism." It's hard for me to understand why Knoch stayed there, considering how devoted he was to making our confession of faith using the actual words God the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known.
Epesians 2:11-18 (CLV) . . .
11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh -- who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands --
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier
15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;
16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it.
17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near,
18 for through Him we both have had the access, in one spirit, to the Father.
Racial Dispensationalism rebuilds the partition betweem Jew and Gentile that was torn down by Christ's death.
I never heard of "Racial Dispensationalism." Knoch was not into that, I can assure you of that. He taught that the body of Christ today is comprised of Jew and Gentile and that both are on equal footing. I don't know where you are getting your information from but it is incorrect.
Tony
Quote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 01:59:57 AM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 08:48:22 PM
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?
cp
Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.
Respectfully,
cp
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."
1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."
Good verses Tony but it doesn't say that the 66 books we refer to as Scripture are Scripture.
You base all of your life on what is written in what we call the Bible but how do we know that is what God wants us to do? Aren't there other God inspired words out there that can equip us and fit us for Gods work?
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the 66 books we call the Bible are what you are referring to when you quote the verses above?
cp
All 66 books are holy Scripture.
Yes, of course I base all my life on what is written in what I call the bible. How do I know that is what God wants us to do that? I just quoted the verse that tells us to do that, that is how I know. :bigGrin: It does not specifically have to say "The 66 books call the Bible are inspired." But the Bible does say that ALL Scripture is inspired and I believe that the 66 books we have are what comprises ALL Scripture.
Tony, very serious question here........
Why do you believe that the 66 books that we have are what comprises all Scripture especially since Scripture does not back it up?
cp
Quote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 02:02:30 AM
Quote from: reFORMer on March 11, 2009, 10:44:03 PM
A. E. Knoch was very together with Bullinger early on. Bullinger is so into racial dipensationalism people even speak of Bullingerism. They had a falling out over UR. Tony's church group, I don't know the history, but they are very together with Knoch, though his group was in California. Tony could say if Knoch founded his church, though he was certainly influential in the forming of Tony's fellowship group. It's not just "literalism." It's a lot for which there is nothing stated in the text of Scripture at all. It is "Racial Dispensationaism." It's hard for me to understand why Knoch stayed there, considering how devoted he was to making our confession of faith using the actual words God the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known.
Epesians 2:11-18 (CLV) . . .
11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh -- who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands --
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier
15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;
16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it.
17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near,
18 for through Him we both have had the access, in one spirit, to the Father.
Racial Dispensationalism rebuilds the partition betweem Jew and Gentile that was torn down by Christ's death.
I never heard of "Racial Dispensationalism." Knoch was not into that, I can assure you of that. He taught that the body of Christ today is comprised of Jew and Gentile and that both are on equal footing. I don't know where you are getting your information from but it is incorrect.
Tony
Hello Reformer,
First of all I want to say how much I have enjoyed reading your posts ....I have been a viewer for awhile and I have been blessed by many things you have written.
I honor the Lord's workmanship in your life.
I like this that you wrote above....and I also wanted to add to this conversation that most within Christendom have no clue as to WHO ISRAEL is referring to.
They think that all Jews (House of Judah) represent all of Israel....and in particular they think that the land over in the Middle East is *Israel*....Israel is the sum total of ALL TWELVE TRIBES. Spiritually Israel represents the OVERCOMERS...for the very name Israel means 'one who has prevailed,overcome with God'.
The House of Israel....also known/referred to as the House of Joseph or House of Ephraim....were all part of the Northern Kingdom that was taken captive by Assyria....and then dispersed into the nations and eventually all lost their IDENTITY of being Hebrews.
Most people don't realize this but Abraham was not Jewish. Yep, look it up for yourself....He was a Hebrew...and what does Hebrew mean?? It means 'one who has crossed over'.
As in crossing over....from death to life....
This is why when one has given their heart to Yahshua and partaken of the 'spiritual feast of Passover' they now are of ABRAHAM's seed...of THE CHRIST....for they have passed from death to life....for as in adam all die so too in Christ shall all be made alive.
There is so much historical data concerning the 10 tribes being dispersed....and once again most within Christendom don't realize that it was these that Paul ministered to...and were the *Gentiles*....for they had absorbed so much of the pagan customs of the lands they were living in.
This points to the beautiful picture of Joseph representing the 'church'....for He too lost His identity and his own brethren did not even recoginize him.....so too has modern christianity lost it's Hebraic identity through the much of what Constatine introduced.
These 2 houses will be reunited ....under the Lordship of Yahshua.....for Ez. 37: 16-22...speaks of the Two Sticks becoming ONE....
Be blessed my brother!
DoD
Quote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 01:59:57 AM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 08:48:22 PM
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?
cp
Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.
Respectfully,
cp
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."
1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."
Good verses Tony but it doesn't say that the 66 books we refer to as Scripture are Scripture.
You base all of your life on what is written in what we call the Bible but how do we know that is what God wants us to do? Aren't there other God inspired words out there that can equip us and fit us for Gods work?
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the 66 books we call the Bible are what you are referring to when you quote the verses above?
cp
Quote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 01:59:57 AMAll 66 books are holy Scripture.
How do you know this Brother?
QuoteQuote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 01:59:57 AMYes, of course I base all my life on what is written in what I call the bible. How do I know that is what God wants us to do that? I just quoted the verse that tells us to do that, that is how I know.
:bigGrin: It does not specifically have to say "The 66 books call the Bible are inspired."
So you base your very life on something not based nor confirmed in the Bible?
Quote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 01:59:57 AM
But the Bible does say that ALL Scripture is inspired and I believe that the 66 books we have are what comprises ALL Scripture.
Yes, the Bible does say that all Scripture is inspired and you have chosen to believe that the 66 books are what comprises Scripture. You have chosen this belief based upon what? Tradition? Instinct? Your own wisdom?
Again I am sincere here and you are a knowledgable and very exact kind of person so I know you represent many others.
cp
Quote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 02:02:30 AM
I never heard of "Racial Dispensationalism." Knoch was not into that, I can assure you of that. He taught that the body of Christ today is comprised of Jew and Gentile and that both are on equal footing. I don't know where you are getting your information from but it is incorrect.
Tony
Please 1.) define a Jew and 2.) define gentile and 3.) explain the juxtoposition or relatedness of the two terms.
I'm tempted to get out of this discussion. It could mean a lot of time and work. I get more edified by worship and sharing things of the life of the Lord. Controversy can get into a way that alienates brethren. I do think this is a worthy topic; but, for any deeply into dispensationalism (which is racial,) I have yet to convince them to be of another mind. Certainly I don't expect to change Tony. I like Tony and so many things he has written. For a number of years I've received a newletter he writes in and it has been very much of a blessing. To the best of my knowledge, never in that letter have they promoted the teaching we're looking at. Articles from it may be read at http://www.saviourofall.org (http://www.saviourofall.org)
Abraham [Abram] was a gentile. His father was a pagan.
2And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.
--Josh 24
God set him apart and made a covenant with him--that he would be the progenitor of many nations.
Genesis 17:4
"As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations.
Genesis 17:5
No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.
The word, 'nations,' means gentiles.
"nations"
H1471
גּי גּוי
gôy gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.
That promise is finally realized in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:29
No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
That promise [the covenant made with Abraham's seed] is finally realized in the Lord Jesus Christ.
15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
--Gal 3
The promise of God to Abraham is reckoned through Isaac. The covenant is brought to us through the free woman, Sarah. We are the children of that covenant, a miracle of God.
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
--Rom 9
Galatians 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Quote from: CHB on March 11, 2009, 11:41:29 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 10:08:55 PM
We are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, never were and never will be. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those IN Israel whom Jesus came to seek and to save. That is what He said. Do you believe Him?
Tony, you are right. All of the Bible is for our learning and all of the things that happened to others are for our example but not all of the Bible pertains to us. Most of the Bible is for, to, and about Israel. Take the Law of Moses for instance, most would agree that the law was only for Israel, not Gentiles. Jesus Himself said "I am sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". Most of his message was for them.
CHB
:2thumbs:
Paul's epistles are to the nations, although I believe we can certainly learn, be edified, and have many spiritual nuggets revealed to us from
every word that proceeds...
Molly, Galatians 3:16 from The Christian Bible (1991) is awesome on the promise as well...
"Now the promises were declared to Abraham and his Seed. It doesn't say, "and to the seeds,", in the plural, but in the singular, "and to your Seed", that is, the Anointed One." So again, it all comes right back to Jesus, doesn't it? God's blessing, James.
It was always only ever about the root and the offspring of David, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen, "the Lamb slain before..." And one day, even those Lost Sheep, will recognize their Messiah! After the fullness of the Gentiles has come in...
The Lamb is slain from the foundation of the world. [Rev 13:8]
"from"
G575
ἀπό
apo
apo'
A primary particle; "off", that is, away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literally or figuratively): - (X here-) after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for (-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-) on (-ce), since, with. In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.
But we were chosen in him before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
"before"
G4253
πρό
pro
pro
A primary preposition; "fore", that is, in front of, prior (figuratively superior) to. In compounds it retains the same significations: - above, ago, before, or ever. In compounds it retains the same significations.
And, we were kept secret [hidden][ in him] until 'now.'
26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
--Col 1
"which hath been hid"
G613
ἀποκρύπτω
apokruptō
ap-ok-roop'-to
From G575 and G2928; to conceal away (that is, fully); figuratively to keep secret: - hide.
For, being dead, we were hid with Christ in God.
Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
"hid"
G2928
κρύπτω
kruptō
kroop'-to
A primary verb; to conceal (properly by covering): - hide (self), keep secret, secret [-ly].
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
--Gen 3
[and] "clothed" [them]
H3847
לבשׁ לבשׁ
lâbash lâbêsh
law-bash', law-bashe'
A primitive root; properly wrap around, that is, (by implication) to put on a garment or clothe (oneself, or another), literally or figuratively: - (in) apparel, arm, array (self), clothe (self), come upon, put (on, upon), wear.
Well, some say 'from', some 'before'...some say "slain from, but determined/chosen to be slain before"...what do you believe the significance of either way is? Are we missing something with one and not the other (besides accuracy/what God actually said)? I'll look at some more literal translations...what'cha think?
we will still be eating and drinking when Jesus come back, notice what he said in the last supper in the bible, "I promised I will not drink again until I come back"
That's mean even we have a new body and a new spirit, we still eat and drink! Even isaish aprrove this somewhere near the end.
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2009, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: tonyWe are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, never were and never will be. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those IN Israel whom Jesus came to seek and to save. That is what He said. Do you believe Him?
Those in Israel? You mean the present day, 50 year old country of Israel?
Then why would he send them to preach the gospel to the entire world?
And, where do we see any who call themselves 'Israel' or 'Jews' in present day, or even in the past, number more than the sand of the sea?
They never did the great commission, never made disciples of all the nations, never did baptize the nations in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
They didn't even finish evangelizing the cities of Israel which they had to do before going to the nations:
Mat 10:23 Now, whenever they may be persecuting you in this city, flee into a different one, for, verily, I am saying to you, Under no circumstances should you be finishing the cities of Israel till the Son of Mankind may be coming."
The great commission will be taken up again when Christ comes back and Israel disciples all the nations under the 12 apostles ruling over the 12 tribes of the nation of Israel.
Col 1
5...the gospel
6which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing... (Col. 1:5b-6)
...the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven (Col. 1:23b, KJV)
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Quote from: claypot on March 12, 2009, 02:53:42 AM
Quote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 01:59:57 AM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 10:53:37 PM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 08:48:22 PM
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?
cp
Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.
Respectfully,
cp
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."
1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."
Good verses Tony but it doesn't say that the 66 books we refer to as Scripture are Scripture.
You base all of your life on what is written in what we call the Bible but how do we know that is what God wants us to do? Aren't there other God inspired words out there that can equip us and fit us for Gods work?
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the 66 books we call the Bible are what you are referring to when you quote the verses above?
cp
Quote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 01:59:57 AMAll 66 books are holy Scripture.
How do you know this Brother?
QuoteQuote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 01:59:57 AMYes, of course I base all my life on what is written in what I call the bible. How do I know that is what God wants us to do that? I just quoted the verse that tells us to do that, that is how I know.
:bigGrin: It does not specifically have to say "The 66 books call the Bible are inspired."
So you base your very life on something not based nor confirmed in the Bible?
Quote from: Tony N on March 12, 2009, 01:59:57 AM
But the Bible does say that ALL Scripture is inspired and I believe that the 66 books we have are what comprises ALL Scripture.
Yes, the Bible does say that all Scripture is inspired and you have chosen to believe that the 66 books are what comprises Scripture. You have chosen this belief based upon what? Tradition? Instinct? Your own wisdom?
Again I am sincere here and you are a knowledgable and very exact kind of person so I know you represent many others.
cp
Tony and others, I apologize. I am so far off topic here that I want to suggest my questions here to Tony be brought over to the Members section thread.
Try this if interested.....
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=5036.50
It's already ongoing and very important to me. I am scared and overwhelmed in God at the same time.
cp
Quote from: Molly on March 12, 2009, 07:18:30 AM
Abraham [Abram] was a gentile. His father was a pagan.
2And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.
--Josh 24
God set him apart and made a covenant with him--that he would be the progenitor of many nations.
Genesis 17:4
"As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations.
Genesis 17:5
No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.
The word, 'nations,' means gentiles.
"nations"
H1471
גּי גּוי
gôy gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.
That promise is finally realized in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hi Molly,
Gen 14:13 "Then came in a fugitive, and told
Abram the Hebrew,—he, having his dwelling among the oaks of Mature the Amorite "
Yes, Abram's father was a pagan....and after Abram received & obeyed the call of Yahweh....
"And Yahweh said unto Abram: Come thou on thy way, Out of thy land and out of the place of thy birth and out of the house of thy father,—Unto the land that I will show thee;"
.....he then was referred to as a Hebrew....for he 'crossed over'....for he had left all that he knew to come into the "NEW".
This is the type/shadow for us as we leave Egypt(the world) we partake of the passover (The shed blood of Christ)...and we 'cross over' from death to life.
So all those that have crossed over too....are Hebrews....
Be blessed,
DoD
Hi DOD--
Hebrew comes from the name Eber who is one of the ancestors of Abram through Shem.
Genesis 10:25
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
"Eber"
H5676
עבר
‛êber
ay'-ber
From H5674; properly a region across; but used only adverbially (with or without a preposition) on the opposite side (especially of the Jordan; usually meaning the east): - X against, beyond, by, X from, over, passage, quarter, (other, this) side, straight.
H5674
עבר
‛âbar
aw-bar'
A primitive root; to cross over; used very widely of any transition (literally or figuratively; transitively, intransitively, intensively or causatively); specifically to cover (in copulation): - alienate, alter, X at all, beyond, bring (over, through), carry over, (over-) come (on, over), conduct (over), convey over, current, deliver, do away, enter, escape, fail, gender, get over, (make) go (away, beyond, by, forth, his way, in, on, over, through), have away (more), lay, meddle, overrun, make partition, (cause to, give, make to, over) pass (-age, along, away, beyond, by, -enger, on, out, over, through), (cause to, make) + proclaim (-amation), perish, provoke to anger, put away, rage, + raiser of taxes, remove, send over, set apart, + shave, cause to (make) sound, X speedily, X sweet smelling, take (away), (make to) transgress (-or), translate, turn away, [way-] faring man, be wrath.
Thanks for that DOD. It's amazing all the little tidbits he hides for us. :HeartThrob:
John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
Quote from: jabcat on March 12, 2009, 09:06:18 AM
Well, some say 'from', some 'before'...some say "slain from, but determined/chosen to be slain before"...what do you believe the significance of either way is? Are we missing something with one and not the other (besides accuracy/what God actually said)? I'll look at some more literal translations...what'cha think?
I think it's pretty clear--
the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world--
When and where did that happen? Is there an account given of it in the Bible?
Could this be the account?
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.--Gen 3
"foundation" [of the world]
G2602
καταβολή
katabolēkat-ab-ol-ay'
From G2598; a deposition, that is,
founding; figuratively
conception: - conceive, foundation.
G2598
καταβάλλω
kataballōkat-ab-al'-lo
From G2596 and G906;
to throw down: -
cast down, lay.
1 Corinthians 15:36
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Quote from: Molly on March 12, 2009, 05:02:21 PM
Hi DOD--
Hebrew comes from the name Eber who is one of the ancestors of Abram through Shem.
Genesis 10:25
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
"Eber"
H5676
עבר
‛êber
ay'-ber
From H5674; properly a region across; but used only adverbially (with or without a preposition) on the opposite side (especially of the Jordan; usually meaning the east): - X against, beyond, by, X from, over, passage, quarter, (other, this) side, straight.
H5674
עבר
‛âbar
aw-bar'
A primitive root; to cross over; used very widely of any transition (literally or figuratively; transitively, intransitively, intensively or causatively); specifically to cover (in copulation): - alienate, alter, X at all, beyond, bring (over, through), carry over, (over-) come (on, over), conduct (over), convey over, current, deliver, do away, enter, escape, fail, gender, get over, (make) go (away, beyond, by, forth, his way, in, on, over, through), have away (more), lay, meddle, overrun, make partition, (cause to, give, make to, over) pass (-age, along, away, beyond, by, -enger, on, out, over, through), (cause to, make) + proclaim (-amation), perish, provoke to anger, put away, rage, + raiser of taxes, remove, send over, set apart, + shave, cause to (make) sound, X speedily, X sweet smelling, take (away), (make to) transgress (-or), translate, turn away, [way-] faring man, be wrath.
Thanks for that DOD. It's amazing all the little tidbits he hides for us. :HeartThrob:
John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
Hi Molly,
It is AMAZING isn't it??
I love that verse you quoted...John 5:24...
I also want to add that this 'crossing over' ....is ONGOING....as we see in the biblical feasts of the Lord....
Passover>>Pentecost>>Tabernacles.....always a progression in our walks with Christ....until we are ALL IN ALL....filled with the fullness of the Godhead bodily....spirit,soul,body.
What an amazing Lord....He did this for us.....I still get teary just thinking on it....I love you Lord. :ginlove:
Be blessed beloved Molly, :HeartThrob:
DoD
DOD,
Any chance you could start a thread on the feasts?
You mentioned them in another thread--and I would like to learn more.
Quote from: Molly on March 12, 2009, 05:16:17 PM
DOD,
Any chance you could start a thread on the feasts?
You mentioned them in another thread--and I would like to learn more.
Wow,
That is so cool of you to ask...I would love to start on a thread on the Feasts....and I know that there are others here at Tentmaker that could share alot too....(Cardinal, Sheila, Pneuma...ect...)
Interestingly, Passover is coming up in about a month or so....then that leads right into the Feast of Unleavened bread...and proceeds to Pentecost....(these are the Spring Feasts)....so maybe that would be a good beginning...just to examine all the types/shadows of the Spring Feasts....and how these become REALITIES within our own lives as we partake of them.
Thank you Molly for asking and I am blessed. :bigGrin:
DoD
Quote from: Molly on March 12, 2009, 05:10:02 PM
I think it's pretty clear--the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world--
When and where did that happen? Is there an account given of it in the Bible?
Could this be the account?
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Adam=Jesus?
(makes me think of the reincarnation thread)
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 12, 2009, 06:49:52 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 12, 2009, 05:10:02 PM
I think it's pretty clear--the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world--
When and where did that happen? Is there an account given of it in the Bible?
Could this be the account?
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Adam=Jesus?
(makes me think of the reincarnation thread)
I am the root and the offspring of David,...
13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. --Rev 22
Jesus must always be the first, and given the pre-eminence in all things.
Do you really think some silly, clueless man who couldn't keep one commandment straight caused all humans to die for all generations to come? (This is how Adam is portrayed by the church.)
1 Corinthians 15:21
For since by man [Adam] came death, by man [Adam] came also the resurrection of the dead.
So the answer is yes. I had that thought for a while. After my post I found a nice article. Well Mr. Google found it for me :laughing7:
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen041.html
QuoteI am the root and the offspring of David
Some say Adam=David=Jesus. (see above mentioned article)
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 12, 2009, 07:34:20 PM
So the answer is yes. I had that thought for a while. After my post I found a nice article. Well Mr. Google found it for me :laughing7:
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen041.html
QuoteI am the root and the offspring of David
Some say Adam=David=Jesus. (see above mentioned article)
I'm not talking about reincarnation. I'm talking about God.
If you do not know who Adam is, how can you know who you are?
The root of David is the first Adam.
The offspring of David is the last Adam.
Matthew 22:45
If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Did you read the article?
Quote from: jabcat on March 12, 2009, 09:06:18 AM
Well, some say 'from', some 'before'...some say "slain from, but determined/chosen to be slain before"...what do you believe the significance of either way is? Are we missing something with one and not the other (besides accuracy/what God actually said)? I'll look at some more literal translations...what'cha think?
Before creation there was no thing. God is no thing. Only God existed. To make room for a creation God vacated something of Himself. The Lamb was slain. This is the source of the new creation.
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 12, 2009, 08:11:04 PM
Did you read the article?
Yes. It has all the Biblical verses in it. It's just a matter of interpretation.
I'm not a talmudist. I'm not a mormon. I don't believe in reincarnation of the soul. The only 'karma' is the wages of sin is death, and Jesus reversed that.
But how do you explain this?
26Even the mystery
which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Quote from: reFORMer on March 12, 2009, 08:17:45 PM
Quote from: jabcat on March 12, 2009, 09:06:18 AM
Well, some say 'from', some 'before'...some say "slain from, but determined/chosen to be slain before"...what do you believe the significance of either way is? Are we missing something with one and not the other (besides accuracy/what God actually said)? I'll look at some more literal translations...what'cha think?
Before creation there was no thing. God is no thing. Only God existed. To make room for a creation God vacated something of Himself. The Lamb was slain. This is the source of the new creation.
:icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on March 12, 2009, 08:22:49 PM
Quote from: reFORMer on March 12, 2009, 08:17:45 PM
Quote from: jabcat on March 12, 2009, 09:06:18 AM
Well, some say 'from', some 'before'...some say "slain from, but determined/chosen to be slain before"...what do you believe the significance of either way is? Are we missing something with one and not the other (besides accuracy/what God actually said)? I'll look at some more literal translations...what'cha think?
Before creation there was no thing. God is no thing. Only God existed. To make room for a creation God vacated something of Himself. The Lamb was slain. This is the source of the new creation.
:icon_flower:
How is God 'no thing'? Scripture? Why a lamb?
Quote from: Molly on March 12, 2009, 08:22:12 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 12, 2009, 08:11:04 PM
Did you read the article?
Yes. It has all the Biblical verses in it. It's just a matter of interpretation.
I'm not a talmudist. I'm not a mormon. I don't believe in reincarnation of the soul. The only 'karma' is the wages of sin is death, and Jesus reversed that.
But how do you explain this?
26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Lemme start with saying I'm not claiming it's false or true.
It has some (good) verses) to back up their claims. Then it gets hard for me to debunk it...
Same for the verse you quoted.... not a clue what you want to show me with it :dontknow:
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 09:57:10 PM
Do you have wool?
Do you go "baaaa"?
Are you lost?
Is your house in Israel?
All we like sheep
All we like sheep
Have gone astray
All we like sheep
All we like sheep
Have gone astray
We have turned
We have turned
Every one to his own way
Every one to his own way
All we like sheep
All we like sheep
Have gone astray
Have gone astray
We have turned
Every one to his own way
We have turned We have turned
Every one to his own way
All we like sheep
Have gone astray
We have turned We have turned
We have turned We have turned
Every one to his own way
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all---Isa 53:6
Quote from: Molly on March 13, 2009, 01:06:45 AM
Quote from: Tony N on March 11, 2009, 09:57:10 PM
Do you have wool?
Do you go "baaaa"?
Are you lost?
Is your house in Israel?
All we like sheep
All we like sheep
Have gone astray
All we like sheep
All we like sheep
Have gone astray
We have turned
We have turned
Every one to his own way
Every one to his own way
All we like sheep
All we like sheep
Have gone astray
Have gone astray
We have turned
Every one to his own way
We have turned We have turned
Every one to his own way
All we like sheep
Have gone astray
We have turned We have turned
We have turned We have turned
Every one to his own way
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all
---Isa 53:6
So Molly, can you explain exactly what you are trying to say here? :laughing7:
cp
I was just singing along with Handel's Messiah. :Sparkletooth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRPSSyeUK-U
I was actually laying in bed thinking of this post this morning (yes, I'm perhaps a little mentally ill :laughing7:). I was wondering if this was something off the movie "Babe", the animals singing or chanting :mblush:. Handel huh? I'm also a little culturally challenged I guess.
Jabster,
QuoteI'm also a little culturally challenged I guess
But still you have a good handel on things :laughing7:
:laughhand: you just keep surprising me, bro :thumbsup:
It's easier if you keep a Lizt.
(I'll be Bach!)
Quote from: reFORMer on March 13, 2009, 08:21:45 PM
(I'll be Bach!)
:happygrin:
Its a Myth "Ill Be Bach" was German, actually hes Austrian, some Ex Musleman, come actor , come politician probably composed a Bit too :icon_flower: I guess
Quote from: Taffy on March 13, 2009, 11:47:22 PM
Quote from: reFORMer on March 13, 2009, 08:21:45 PM
(I'll be Bach!)
:happygrin:
Its a Myth "Ill Be Bach" was German, actually hes Austrian, some Ex Musleman, come actor , come politician probably composed a Bit too :icon_flower: I guess
Back in the olden times when they would burry what they thought was a dead person was actually still alive. It was just that they couldn't get much of a pulse and the person would revive while in the ground. They know this by the scratch marks on the lids of the coffins. So they began putting bells with a string running to the coffin so that if one would revive he could ring the bell above ground.
Well, when Bach was burried they didn't have this system. But his faithful wife would go to the grave to see if she could hear anything. As it turned out she could hear very faint scratching. So she got the grave keeper and they both could hear the scratching. But he couldn't legally exhume the body so they had to get the sherrif. He heard the scratching too so he gave the go-ahead to exhume the body. They began digging and the closer they got the to coffin the louder the scratching became! They dug and dug and finally opened up the coffin and there was Bach with all the music he had ever written. They asked him what he was doing with that erasor and all his music, because the scratching they thought they heard was actually him erasing his music. His reply to them? He said he was decomposing.
Luckily most of his work was already released on CD before he started decomposing :laughing7:
LOL...pretty good, WW, even if it was a little rotten.
dead ringer.......... :happygrin:
You guys are killin me!!!
Quote from: chuckt on March 16, 2009, 12:49:39 PM
dead ringer.......... :happygrin:
Never knew Bach was a Free Manson...
(http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ebenezerfallcreek/ringer,%20russ%20&%20df.gif)
you should've seen the guy's twin before he died...he was a dead ringer for his brother...
Quote from: jabcat on March 17, 2009, 12:17:33 AM
you should've seen the guy's twin before he died...he was a dead ringer for his brother...
You are definitely your Mother's child.
My son is known for one-liners...I told him one day, "the nut doesn't fall very far from the tree"...he said, "except for this time".
And Jabcat answered "because you rolled downhill" :laughing7: