I know, O LORD, that the way of man is not in himself, that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps. Jeremiah 10:23
Kudos Eduard,
I like when I read a verse and it has new meaning. I must remember this one when someone tells me that men have free will and God is too much of a gentleman to trespass against our free will.
:thumbsup:
Not exactly in context, but God is also no respector of persons.
Quote from: Eduard on May 26, 2013, 04:56:51 PM
:thumbsup:
Not exactly in context, but God is also no respector of persons.
Romans 2
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
This is the one that I use with people who believe that the Jews have the law and Gentiles have grace. God doesn't choose the Jew over the Gentile simply because of race or religion because he has no respect of Jew or Gentile. God does not even see Jews, Gentiles, Muslims, Buddhist, Hindi, or whatever, He only sees His children who are misbehaving terribly to say the least.
DuWayne
And no Father will let His children do only what they please, there will be chastising and of course reconciliation. :2c:
Quote from: Eduard on May 26, 2013, 02:55:25 PM
I know, O LORD, that the way of man is not in himself, that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps. Jeremiah 10:23
Excellent scripture reference to back up limited will (is that how you say the opposite of "free will"?). I have been thinking about free-will over the last several days, and this thread seems to be right down my alley today. We don't have free-will because we are incapable of making ANY decisions that are not affected by a multiplicity of other factors. God designed us to make choices based on past experiences and personal preferences. I like green because I prefer cool colors, and pink reminds me of Pepto Bismol and sour stomach. I don't eat grubs because my culture has always taught me to say "YUK!" at the very thought. Many people, especially men, fall into the sins of sexual lust because we are designed to seek mates, and it's difficult to remain faithful to just one woman. God designed us that way for a purpose. That is definitely NOT free will. We have limited will.
Psalms 139:16- "Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."
This one I think is very very clear. :thumbsup:
May the Force (God) be with you :winkgrin:
The unbiblical doctrine of free will:
Free will---''The power of directing our own actions, without restraint by necessity or fate. Spontaneous'' New Webster's Expanded Dictionary. 2005 Edition.
Biblical will---''A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directs his steps'' Proverbs 16:9.
The irony is that you will find more unbiblical things in the church than anywhere else.
Quote from: Eduard on May 26, 2013, 08:24:58 PM
The irony is that you will find more unbiblical things in the church than anywhere else.
Just like our old friend Martin Zender said and I quote.... If the church is preaching it believe the opposite to be the truth. Sort of like anti-christ is the antithesis of Yeshua.
I really like these scrips, thanks.
I differ from Martin and some others on that. I don't believe absolutely everything "the church" teaches is wrong. I believe that's an over-statement. I don't believe we need to disrespectfully throw out the baby with bathwater. IMO, there are many things the church teaches (most brands) that is true, while many things are not and/or are questionable. So I believe discernment, being led by the Spirit as we look to Jesus is tantamount. As a brief example, I'll name a few things "the church" generally teaches that I believe are true.
Jesus is the Son of God
Jesus died and rose again for our sins
Belief in Him - and His atonement - saves us
Jesus was born of a virgin
God created the heavens and the earth
John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus
Jesus gave the commandment to love
Speak the truth in love
Jesus will return, etc., etc.
IMO, it is that some of the details, interpretation, understandings are different - what it all means and how it all happens - but again, that's why there's a need for both love and discernment. That's my understanding anyway. Blessings, James.
I don't really know how the sovereignty of God, the will of man, and the dominion of Satan over this world/eon all work together. I'm afraid that if I try to explain all of this, I will end up oversimplifying things that are really beyond my comprehension. But, regardless of what one teaches on these matters, if the teaching is correct, people will object to it with the objection predicted by Paul in Romans 9:19, "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?'" As Martin Zender has stated, the objector should be given credit for at least understanding the point. If one's teaching on human will and the sovereignty of God would never inspire this objection, the message isn't what Paul taught.
Samuel
Quote from: jabcat on May 26, 2013, 10:53:48 PM
I really like these scrips, thanks.
I differ from Martin and some others on that. I don't believe absolutely everything "the church" teaches is wrong. I believe that's an over-statement. I don't believe we need to disrespectfully throw out the baby with bathwater. IMO, there are many things the church teaches (most brands) that is true, while many things are not and/or are questionable. So I believe discernment, being led by the Spirit as we look to Jesus is tantamount. As a brief example, I'll name a few things "the church" generally teaches that I believe are true.
Jesus is the Son of God
Jesus died and rose again for our sins
Belief in Him - and His atonement - saves us
Jesus was born of a virgin
God created the heavens and the earth
John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus
Jesus gave the commandment to love
Speak the truth in love
Jesus will return, etc., etc.
IMO, it is that some of the details, interpretation, understandings are different - what it all means and how it all happens - but again, that's why there's a need for both love and discernment. That's my understanding anyway. Blessings, James.
jabcat thank you so much for sharing your understanding in such an edifying manner...ministering grace unto the hearers. (Eph 4:29-32) I also thought of the Scripture , from Proverbs (?) that states something to the effect that good news from a far country (well, Missouri is not far, far ) is like cold water to the thirsty... and I was thirsty... and you gave me to drink... May His peace, grace, love reign in your mind and heart. Anna
Quote from: OneThing on May 26, 2013, 11:39:28 PM
Quote from: jabcat on May 26, 2013, 10:53:48 PM
I really like these scrips, thanks.
I differ from Martin and some others on that. I don't believe absolutely everything "the church" teaches is wrong. I believe that's an over-statement. I don't believe we need to disrespectfully throw out the baby with bathwater. IMO, there are many things the church teaches (most brands) that is true, while many things are not and/or are questionable. So I believe discernment, being led by the Spirit as we look to Jesus is tantamount. As a brief example, I'll name a few things "the church" generally teaches that I believe are true.
Jesus is the Son of God
Jesus died and rose again for our sins
Belief in Him - and His atonement - saves us
Jesus was born of a virgin
God created the heavens and the earth
John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus
Jesus gave the commandment to love
Speak the truth in love
Jesus will return, etc., etc.
IMO, it is that some of the details, interpretation, understandings are different - what it all means and how it all happens - but again, that's why there's a need for both love and discernment. That's my understanding anyway. Blessings, James.
jabcat thank you so much for sharing your understanding in such an edifying manner...ministering grace unto the hearers. (Eph 4:29-32) I also thought of the Scripture , from Proverbs (?) that states something to the effect that good news from a far country (well, Missouri is not far, far ) is like cold water to the thirsty... and I was thirsty... and you gave me to drink... May His peace, grace, love reign in your mind and heart. Anna
Thank you dear jabcat and dear OneThing for revealing some Christian Spirit.
I could not decide which of these pairs of lines to choose so I chose both...
Proverbs 2
8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of the merciful.
9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.
Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
I want my children to learn and grow. I allow them to make choices. I give them a healthy allowance so they can make mistakes with it and learn. I allow them to experience consequences under my watchful eye, and come to their aid when it's too much. I am trying to mature my children by allowing them to navigate life within certain constraints dictated by me. Do my children have free will? No, they have a limited will within the boundaries I set. There are certain lines I won't allow them to cross, certain waters they are too young and immature to navigate.
This is how I understand our will. IMO, we do not have free will, nor does God cause me to sin. I have a limited will within the confines and boundaries God sets before me. Within them I learn and grow. That is how I understand will today.
"Love thine enemies" – I can hate them if I choose or I can love them if I choose. Both extremes of choice are open to me.
"Turn the other cheek" – I can hit back after being hit or I can turn the other cheek – both extremes are open to me to choose.
However, because I love the Author of those words it would hurt me to oppose His will.
Quote from: jabcat on May 26, 2013, 10:53:48 PM
I really like these scrips, thanks.
I differ from Martin and some others on that. I don't believe absolutely everything "the church" teaches is wrong. I believe that's an over-statement. I don't believe we need to disrespectfully throw out the baby with bathwater. IMO, there are many things the church teaches (most brands) that is true, while many things are not and/or are questionable. So I believe discernment, being led by the Spirit as we look to Jesus is tantamount. As a brief example, I'll name a few things "the church" generally teaches that I believe are true.
Jesus is the Son of God
Jesus died and rose again for our sins
Belief in Him - and His atonement - saves us
Jesus was born of a virgin
God created the heavens and the earth
John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus
Jesus gave the commandment to love
Speak the truth in love
Jesus will return, etc., etc.
IMO, it is that some of the details, interpretation, understandings are different - what it all means and how it all happens - but again, that's why there's a need for both love and discernment. That's my understanding anyway. Blessings, James.
Jabcat, I also have to disagree with Zender on that point. The organized church does get plenty of things right, but they also get plenty of it wrong. That is why it is so deceptive, and Satan uses that deception to keep people in bondage. If they were wrong about everything, then there would be no deception. But in a Catholic sermon (I'm sure it is the same for any other church), the preacher will say something true one minute like "God is in complete control of our lives," then a minute later contradict himself by saying something like "We need to choose to follow Christ to obtain salvation."
Christ has redeemed all and this shall be witnessed by all in due time.
Yet: "Be not deceived, God is not mocked, whatsoever a man sows that (touto) he shall reap" (Gal.6:7) – and this is directed to early followers of Christ.
If an individual claiming that name still chooses to sow in the lesser self of the flesh rather than choosing to sow in the higher self of the Spirit under the guiding and regenerating influences of the Holy Spirit, then he or she will reap corruption - which I personally accept to mean that the continual reaping of the sowing in the flesh causes the spiritual body to become "corrupted" or grotesquely distorted accordingly:
"For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to (eis => into, towards) the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap aeonian life" (Gal.6:8).
Therefore, regardless of how someone perceives spiritual redemption, I think we play into the enemy's hands if we lessen in any way such a warning about the abuse or right use of choice, i.e. to choose to sow in the flesh by listening to the councils of the enemy or to sow in the Spirit by and through the grace of God.
The apostle wrote that letter for a reason. Man might be fooled but God is not mocked. Yet, should this all sound too grave, the message from the apostle continues by stating:
"And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not..." (Gal.6:9)
I personally believe this to mean that the spiritual body of one who continually sows in the Spirit and therefore reaps in the Spirit is so spiritually healthy that accordingly its owner will experience a degree of spiritual life so beyond human experience that words could not even begin to describe the type of happiness and joy and love in store for such a one.
Peace and Joy.
Quote from: Warhawk17 on May 27, 2013, 03:13:11 AM
Quote from: jabcat on May 26, 2013, 10:53:48 PM
Jabcat, I also have to disagree with Zender on that point. The organized church does get plenty of things right, but they also get plenty of it wrong. That is why it is so deceptive, and Satan uses that deception to keep people in bondage. If they were wrong about everything, then there would be no deception. But in a Catholic sermon (I'm sure it is the same for any other church), the preacher will say something true one minute like "God is in complete control of our lives," then a minute later contradict himself by saying something like "We need to choose to follow Christ to obtain salvation."
How can the organized church get anything right if they are worshiping a trinity? Our God is not a trinity therefore if that is what they worship than they have it all wrong. IMO if you get one part wrong you have it all wrong especially when it comes to something that big. I will not ignore the churches pagan practices with a wink. The Christ will abolish all religion when he returns and the church will begin to understand that they had many many things wrong. The church is not the ekklesia.
Quote from: Eduard on May 26, 2013, 08:24:58 PM
The irony is that you will find more unbiblical things in the church than anywhere else.
:iagree:
Quote from: jabcat on May 26, 2013, 10:53:48 PM
I really like these scrips, thanks.
I differ from Martin and some others on that. I don't believe absolutely everything "the church" teaches is wrong. I believe that's an over-statement. I don't believe we need to disrespectfully throw out the baby with bathwater. IMO, there are many things the church teaches (most brands) that is true, while many things are not and/or are questionable. So I believe discernment, being led by the Spirit as we look to Jesus is tantamount. As a brief example, I'll name a few things "the church" generally teaches that I believe are true.
Jesus is the Son of God
Jesus died and rose again for our sins
Belief in Him - and His atonement - saves us
Jesus was born of a virgin
God created the heavens and the earth
John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus
Jesus gave the commandment to love
Speak the truth in love
Jesus will return, etc., etc.
IMO, it is that some of the details, interpretation, understandings are different - what it all means and how it all happens - but again, that's why there's a need for both love and discernment. That's my understanding anyway. Blessings, James.
What the man says is true. Yet, the doctrines of virtually all churches out there contain a pervasive distortion brought about by trying to reconcile the word of God to the human concept of hell. That's why I left the organized church. This teaching of distorted doctrine in an organized church becomes a trap that is so deep that only God can rescue you from it, as many of you have experienced.
The churches do much good work in their communities, and we need not forget that. There are plenty of these churches in our own communities, giving us plenty of opportunity to share the truth with members of these church organizations. God did not call us out to be shy about the gospel of victory. We need to speak boldly to people as God gives us the opportunities, and hopefully many of those may be church people. The more you share it, the easier it becomes. If we get rejected, or the truth gets rejected, that's OK. It not about us. Be encouraged, we will receive our reward!
If you don't feel like you have enough opportunity to share the gospel of victory, ASK GOD FOR OPPORTUNITIES AND A SPIRIT OF BOLDNESS!
:2c:
Quote from: shawn on May 27, 2013, 01:23:36 AM
I want my children to learn and grow. I allow them to make choices. I give them a healthy allowance so they can make mistakes with it and learn. I allow them to experience consequences under my watchful eye, and come to their aid when it's too much. I am trying to mature my children by allowing them to navigate life within certain constraints dictated by me. Do my children have free will? No, they have a limited will within the boundaries I set. There are certain lines I won't allow them to cross, certain waters they are too young and immature to navigate.
This is how I understand our will. IMO, we do not have free will, nor does God cause me to sin. I have a limited will within the confines and boundaries God sets before me. Within them I learn and grow. That is how I understand will today.
I LOVE IT!
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on May 27, 2013, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Warhawk17 on May 27, 2013, 03:13:11 AM
Quote from: jabcat on May 26, 2013, 10:53:48 PM
Jabcat, I also have to disagree with Zender on that point. The organized church does get plenty of things right, but they also get plenty of it wrong. That is why it is so deceptive, and Satan uses that deception to keep people in bondage. If they were wrong about everything, then there would be no deception. But in a Catholic sermon (I'm sure it is the same for any other church), the preacher will say something true one minute like "God is in complete control of our lives," then a minute later contradict himself by saying something like "We need to choose to follow Christ to obtain salvation."
How can the organized church get anything right if they are worshiping a trinity? Our God is not a trinity therefore if that is what they worship than they have it all wrong. IMO if you get one part wrong you have it all wrong especially when it comes to something that big. I will not ignore the churches pagan practices with a wink. The Christ will abolish all religion when he returns and the church will begin to understand that they had many many things wrong. The church is not the ekklesia.
Dear Brother,
Let us not forget that none of us are yet perfected, and none of us have perfect wisdom and understanding. I would venture to say that we all have something wrong as of yet. But that does not mean that we do not have it all wrong. We can only see what the Father reveals to us. If we ever say that we have it all right, then we are no longer fit to receive God's truths, because at that point we become one of the "wise and learned" instead of little children.
Luke 10:21
From the ESV Study Bible: [ Jesus Rejoices in the Father's Will ] In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: jbertonbounds on May 27, 2013, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on May 27, 2013, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Warhawk17 on May 27, 2013, 03:13:11 AM
Quote from: jabcat on May 26, 2013, 10:53:48 PM
Jabcat, I also have to disagree with Zender on that point. The organized church does get plenty of things right, but they also get plenty of it wrong. That is why it is so deceptive, and Satan uses that deception to keep people in bondage. If they were wrong about everything, then there would be no deception. But in a Catholic sermon (I'm sure it is the same for any other church), the preacher will say something true one minute like "God is in complete control of our lives," then a minute later contradict himself by saying something like "We need to choose to follow Christ to obtain salvation."
How can the organized church get anything right if they are worshiping a trinity? Our God is not a trinity therefore if that is what they worship than they have it all wrong. IMO if you get one part wrong you have it all wrong especially when it comes to something that big. I will not ignore the churches pagan practices with a wink. The Christ will abolish all religion when he returns and the church will begin to understand that they had many many things wrong. The church is not the ekklesia.
Dear Brother,
Let us not forget that none of us are yet perfected, and none of us have perfect wisdom and understanding. I would venture to say that we all have something wrong as of yet. But that does not mean that we do not have it all wrong. We can only see what the Father reveals to us. If we ever say that we have it all right, then we are no longer fit to receive God's truths, because at that point we become one of the "wise and learned" instead of little children.
Luke 10:21
From the ESV Study Bible: [ Jesus Rejoices in the Father's Will ] In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
:HeartThrob:
:iagree:
a grateful heart is a beautiful heart. :HeartThrob:
Since non of us believe in free will, we must also realize that is by God's grace that we have come to see more of His true face and purpose rather than through a veil. So let us be humble (I have admittedly, problems in this area also, the "I know more therefore I am greater" tendency). We have to keep reminding ourselves that we were called to love, not to exalt ourselves above others.
John,
I agree with your last post but to clear up the obvious confusion about my post I did not say the we or I have it all right. The church for the most part is pagan with few (very few) truths. If you worship a god who is a trinity then you worship a different god. There are many false gods and most of them are a trinity but not our God. I am aware there are few churches (very few) that do not worship the false trinity doctrine. If our God is not a trinity than they aren't worshiping our God period. Sorry for the confusion.
imo this is meat.
only I AM can say I WILL.
Matt.5: 23,24 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Matt.5: 23,24 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; (choose to) leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first (choose to) be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and (choose to) offer thy gift.
The result will ultimately be achieved but some may take longer to choose to follow God's will than others.
We don't offer gifts at the temple altar here any more.
Jesus and his gift of grace was left at the alter after he be first reconciled to me.
Dear friend, thank you for responding. This, as you know, is from a Sermon containing a whole series of moral teachings rather than "law" teachings – and teachings that required a person to become actively involved using their ability to chose, no less.
For instance, "But I say unto you, (choose to) Love your enemies, (choose to) bless them that curse you, (choose to) do good to them that hate you, and (choose to) pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you".
Does this no longer apply because Christ was still alive in the flesh when He spoke it? I think not.
In the same sense it seems to me that for a person to choose not to be reconciled to his brother before he offers his gift to God is a teaching that transcends the example – it is a Christ principle indeed applicable as much today as it was in the yesterday as it will be in the tomorrow.
For instance, "But I say unto you, (choose to) Love your enemies, (choose to) bless them that curse you, (choose to) do good to them that hate you, and (choose to) pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you".
Jesus spoke the words he heard his father speak to him.
Jesus gave up or should I say submitted his free will to the Father.
The sacrifices of LOVE perfected in GOD
In my opinion I am left no distraction or requirements.
I am free to choose whom I LOVE for this is the reason I have been set free.
Even limited 'free' will is imperfect.. Even the murderer, has perhaps things which were done to him or her, which brought them to where they are..
However, it's still not true to say the murderer had no choice..
But.. when it comes to salvation (and perhaps denomination?) I believe mankind has no 'free' will at all.. (that certainly cancels out all boasting?)
"Ye shall know them by their fruit".. I find myself very much zealous for accurate doctrine. But if I expect to find it here, on the present planet earth, where "the god of this world" so very much fills the atmosphere with tons and tons of heavy, untrue things.. I think I will be very disappointed, but I try to "judge not" and be very zealous above all, concerning my own perceptions and doctrine. Except perhaps when it comes to the world, then I can't help but speak up!
To my way of thinking many "churches" are losing much when they compromise with the world concerning the Word of God. Agreeing with the popular cultural idea that origins took millions of years to accomplish and not only that, but this means death existed from the 'beginning' and is not the result of sin and imperfection. (God hedged the truth! as if!) Genesis, therefor, is simply metaphor or myth.
These churches are losing their young folks in droves. People want and need a faith they can get their teeth into. Compromising with the world, is the exact opposite.. waters it all down.. til it is worth nothing but to be spit out.. I personally hate it, that instead of "the lion and lamb will dwell peacably, the lion will eat straw like the ox, the bear will graze with the cow" has become instead the Kingdom as a sort of floaty 'afterlife'. Take away paradise, the original blueprint restored (or anything else out of God's Word) and you lose the interest of millions.. Who can get their teeth into milk toast like that!? But, the measure of how close to God one is, is more "fruit" than "doctrine".. No matter how much false doctrine may drive moi crazy!
Galatians 5:19-22, Amplified Bible
"Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies), envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." -- as long as one does these they are not "in the Kingdom" but are "in the flesh" (Personally, with me "ill temper" rears its ugly head from time to time, especially when Quiet times are squeezed out, an ongoing battle.) "But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness"
This part - divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar or particular? opinions)
tells me denominationalism itself is outside of the Kingdom, not that it makes all of us unsaved! (I say all, because U.R. is still another group, though it may have more things 'right' than most.)
Surely we all make countless choices everyday, but when it comes to whom is saved when.. involves no 'free' will at all, imho. :2c:
These churches are losing their young folks in droves. :dsunny: :Peace2:
Quote from: dajomaco on May 28, 2013, 07:03:38 PM
These churches are losing their young folks in droves. :dsunny: :Peace2:
I believe this is part of Yahweh's plan.
Could it be that God is preparing the world to receive the truth about UR?
Perhaps.. but whenever I've read about the falling away it hasn't been in good context..
I should have written the young folks are leaving the faith in Christ in droves..
I WISH I could believe it's in preparation for the fuLL gospel /Good news!!
God has ordained that all perfected life shall be in all beings. That is a preordained result – and, I believe, is achieved by the ongoing work of the Saviour Christ – He has driven His stake into the Earth and the Earth and all the heavens shall shake until all is achieved, and He even affects the hearts and minds of those who do not claim to follow Him.
Unfortunately, evil spirits get such a grip on the children of the Earth that a shock to their system is the only way to shake off that evil and then Christ gets His chance with them. There is no other way to put it – it is a terrible war against the power of evil.
The God who is Love has indeed conquered all and the result is now assured. And yet prowling spirits are at large influencing the children of God to perform evil acts, even those who know Christ as the Saviour, especially those who know Christ as the Saviour – they look for moments when the children of God are off their guard and seek to bend their thoughts: "It is fine to do this, you are allowed to do that because everybody else does it, why shouldn't you have what the world has to offer? Chase after it, chase after it, nothing you do is a sin, there is no such thing as sin for you, take it all freely, nobody said you cannot have it all...".
Words are fine things, evil cannot affect the mind say the words – yet I would say, I hope in all humility, that those words have already been affected by evil. Only by seeking to be with Christ or God (and to me they cannot be separated) throughout this earthly sojourn can the mind be protected from the influence of evil. If the child of God had not been off their guard they would have been protected.
The world is blind to fallen and debased spirits: the world locks people away as "mentally ill" and indeed they are, but the most highly trained psychiatrists do not have a clue as to the host or hosts to whom the owner of the mind of the body has handed over control of the mind. If they could see them they would be so frightened that they could not even move – and yet the world sneers at anyone who believes such things.
The Master Christ made certain that His recorded teachings included references to obsession and possession. I am not persuaded by any words that say wicked spirits existed then and not now – they are everywhere – but thank God so is He everywhere and the angels of God are with Him too. But how will the children of the Earth respond to the unseen life that is around them? Who will they listen to? Yes, it is that fine a point in many cases I believe – who will the child of the Earth, in their blindness, choose to listen to? Preordained some might say, although I would not – but I do not care about philosophical points in this context – the child of God is loved by God and He seeks and seeks until the lost sheep is found and He would rather His child listens to Him and not a dark and hateful spirit seeking to cause as much misery as possible.
The battle goes on – it is no use giving up, one must always be aware. Personally I sometimes chant silently the holy names associated with the Saviour God as One who is a Companion, as I go throughout the day. Only through time and experience have I discovered the sheer power of this because so much is unseen and hidden it is hard to detect the effect.
So yes, we know Christ is the Saviour of all and this shall be testified in due time, but I would say that the more aware we are of the evil around then the more we play our part. I do not lessen the reality of the war with evil by wrapping it all up into a package of fact that the result is preordained by God and achieved through His Christ and so there is nothing to do. No, there is plenty that we are called to do.
I apologise for taking this direction in this subject if it does not fit in with the beliefs of others, I do not like upsetting people whose motives are healthy but I do find that for some of God's children they need to be – if not made aware of then reminded of - how real are debased spirits seeking to harm...
...And of course how real is the loving Father God who forever is seeking to protect.
Peace.
Quote from: jbertonbounds on May 27, 2013, 05:36:24 PM
Quote from: jabcat on May 26, 2013, 10:53:48 PM
I really like these scrips, thanks.
I differ from Martin and some others on that. I don't believe absolutely everything "the church" teaches is wrong. I believe that's an over-statement. I don't believe we need to disrespectfully throw out the baby with bathwater. IMO, there are many things the church teaches (most brands) that is true, while many things are not and/or are questionable. So I believe discernment, being led by the Spirit as we look to Jesus is tantamount. As a brief example, I'll name a few things "the church" generally teaches that I believe are true.
Jesus is the Son of God
Jesus died and rose again for our sins
Belief in Him - and His atonement - saves us
Jesus was born of a virgin
God created the heavens and the earth
John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus
Jesus gave the commandment to love
Speak the truth in love
Jesus will return, etc., etc.
IMO, it is that some of the details, interpretation, understandings are different - what it all means and how it all happens - but again, that's why there's a need for both love and discernment. That's my understanding anyway. Blessings, James.
What the mans says is true. Yet, the doctrines of virtually all churches out there contain a pervasive distortion brought about by trying to reconcile the word of God to the human concept of hell. That's why I left the organized church. This teaching of distorted doctrine in an organized church becomes a trap that is so deep that only God can rescue you from it, as many of you have experienced.
The churches do much good work in their communities, and we need not forget that. There are plenty of these churches in our own communities, giving us plenty of opportunity to share the truth with members of these church organizations. God did not call us out to be shy about the gospel of victory. We need to speak boldly to people as God gives us the opportunities, and hopefully many of those may be church people. The more you share it, the easier it becomes. If we get rejected, or the truth gets rejected, that's OK. It not about us. Be encouraged, we will receive our reward!
If you don't feel like you have enough opportunity to share the gospel of victory, ASK GOD FOR OPPORTUNITIES AND A SPIRIT OF BOLDNESS!
:2c:
For encouragement: I think while we will no doubt get lots of rejection, when u do get through to a person and you see the face shine when he/she is released from bondage into the truth, its pretty awesome. :laughing7:
Of course we must also strive hard and dig deep into scriptures to try to get most of our doctrinal positions right, because there is no point in leading a person to the truth in one area and leading him to falsehood in most other.
Quote from: jedi1989 on June 01, 2013, 12:19:51 PM
Quote from: jbertonbounds on May 27, 2013, 05:36:24 PM
Quote from: jabcat on May 26, 2013, 10:53:48 PM
I really like these scrips, thanks.
I differ from Martin and some others on that. I don't believe absolutely everything "the church" teaches is wrong. I believe that's an over-statement. I don't believe we need to disrespectfully throw out the baby with bathwater. IMO, there are many things the church teaches (most brands) that is true, while many things are not and/or are questionable. So I believe discernment, being led by the Spirit as we look to Jesus is tantamount. As a brief example, I'll name a few things "the church" generally teaches that I believe are true.
Jesus is the Son of God
Jesus died and rose again for our sins
Belief in Him - and His atonement - saves us
Jesus was born of a virgin
God created the heavens and the earth
John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus
Jesus gave the commandment to love
Speak the truth in love
Jesus will return, etc., etc.
IMO, it is that some of the details, interpretation, understandings are different - what it all means and how it all happens - but again, that's why there's a need for both love and discernment. That's my understanding anyway. Blessings, James.
What the mans says is true. Yet, the doctrines of virtually all churches out there contain a pervasive distortion brought about by trying to reconcile the word of God to the human concept of hell. That's why I left the organized church. This teaching of distorted doctrine in an organized church becomes a trap that is so deep that only God can rescue you from it, as many of you have experienced.
The churches do much good work in their communities, and we need not forget that. There are plenty of these churches in our own communities, giving us plenty of opportunity to share the truth with members of these church organizations. God did not call us out to be shy about the gospel of victory. We need to speak boldly to people as God gives us the opportunities, and hopefully many of those may be church people. The more you share it, the easier it becomes. If we get rejected, or the truth gets rejected, that's OK. It not about us. Be encouraged, we will receive our reward!
If you don't feel like you have enough opportunity to share the gospel of victory, ASK GOD FOR OPPORTUNITIES AND A SPIRIT OF BOLDNESS!
:2c:
For encouragement: I think while we will no doubt get lots of rejection, when u do get through to a person and you see the face shine when he/she is released from bondage into the truth, its pretty awesome. :laughing7:
Of course we must also strive hard and dig deep into scriptures to try to get most of our doctrinal positions right, because there is no point in leading a person to the truth in one area and leading him to falsehood in most other.
They say "practice makes perfect."
Practice telling people the truly good news when you are alone, in your car, to another UR friend, etc.
I do this often, and it just comes out naturally when I share it with another person for real. :thumbsup:
PS The only drawback is that when people see me driving along talking to myself they think I'm crazy. :laughing7: Oh yeah, they already thought I was crazy anyway! :laugh:
Jb rather than re-posting your entire last post I just wanted to show you a verse which I believe says that we should not necessarily rehearse all of our lines.
Mark 13
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
I do understand that you are not being lead and delivered but I think it is still applicable. If you feel that you need rehearsal maybe the words that you speak do not come from the Holy Spirit. You can argue that they (your words) come from the HS but how do you know they do if you must rehearse?
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on June 03, 2013, 09:30:46 PM
Jb rather than re-posting your entire last post I just wanted to show you a verse which I believe says that we should not necessarily rehearse all of our lines.
Mark 13
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
I do understand that you are not being lead and delivered but I think it is still applicable. If you feel that you need rehearsal maybe the words that you speak do not come from the Holy Spirit. You can argue that they (your words) come from the HS but how do you know they do if you must rehearse?
I have no wisdom or understanding that was not taught me by the Holy Spirit.
In and of myself I am nothing at all, I have nothing at all.
I do not agree that Mark 13:11 applies to rehearsing sharing the gospel.
Hello Eduard,
We most certainly do have "free will", as God gives us the choice of whether we want to be in the Kingdom of God - or not:
http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm (http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm)
Either way, we are all still "saved".
I hope this helps.
Ken
(http://ernestlmartin.com/images/kogpng.png)
Quote from: Ken on June 04, 2013, 10:15:09 PM
Hello Eduard,
We most certainly do have "free will", as God gives us the choice of whether we want to be in the Kingdom of God - or not:
http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm (http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm)
Either way, we are all still "saved".
I hope this helps.
Ken
I read the article posted above.
IMO In My Opinion.
Is one of the most anti-Christ doctrines.
I am not interested in having an anti-Christ attitude.
As for the kingdom of God,
I see a Man standing by the exit yelling this way
Unbelief keeps you out of the kingdom of God.
The article says look at yourself, if you deem that you have done good and have the right attitude.
You might make into the kingdom of God.
If you are looking at your self and see the good you have done, and say.
I have met the requirements to enter the Kingdom of God.
The person standing beside you saying the same thing is Satan.
Dajo, I've been thinking about this for a few weeks. It keeps coming back to me that the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that's available here and now, it's in/among us. :Chinscratch:
so I'm still a little corn-fused - about the millinium, the kingdom of heaven vs/along with kingdom of God - whether they're interchangeable or not, etc. I know Mr. Martin knew a lot more than me, but I'm just not sure about some of it still.
OK, free will/not free will. Some one side, some the other, some floating around all over the place in between. :grouppray:
This what I believe so far.
Yes the kingdom of God is real.
The currency used in the kingdom of GOD is Love.
Jesus paid for us to get in.
Once in, we see that Love rules the economy.
Everyone in the Kingdom desires and works toward
having Love to give Jesus at his wedding.
I have been thinking about freewill for awhile now, and still can draw no conclusion, infact I have personally decided to not conclude a theory on whether I have freewill or not until I am stronger in my faith, although I also accept it if it's Gods plan that I will not know in this life.
I did notice that the more I focused and studied on the different views of freewill, the more strained and anxious I became.
One thing I do know without a doubt, is that there is nothing good within myself.
Maybe I'm all bad within myself, and the good is all God. Maybe it's the carnal part of me that decides my poor choices, and God's spirit that makes the good. Maybe the love I have for others does not come from me at all, rather just my soul bearing witness to the goodness of God.
Quote from: jbertonbounds on June 03, 2013, 10:55:50 PM
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on June 03, 2013, 09:30:46 PM
Jb rather than re-posting your entire last post I just wanted to show you a verse which I believe says that we should not necessarily rehearse all of our lines.
Mark 13
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
I do understand that you are not being lead and delivered but I think it is still applicable. If you feel that you need rehearsal maybe the words that you speak do not come from the Holy Spirit. You can argue that they (your words) come from the HS but how do you know they do if you must rehearse?
I have no wisdom or understanding that was not taught me by the Holy Spirit.
In and of myself I am nothing at all, I have nothing at all.
I do not agree that Mark 13:11 applies to rehearsing sharing the gospel.
Rehearse all you want to jb I hope that you are successful in convincing at least a few lost people, to believe what you believe, with your words.
By the way how has it worked so far? The truth is one of the hardest things to sell on the open market.