I want to become a writer, but I am working on a separate project. A project that takes a verse from the Bible, quotes it correctly and then a verse helped that adds the "Eternal Torment" spin to it. Here is an example:
What the verse says:
Revelations 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
How the Church interprets the verse:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any pain for those that dwell within in the Holy City. For the former things shall be reserved for the heathens that will dwell in the Lake of Fire forever.
Any feedback good or bad would be greatly appreciated.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any pain for those that dwell within in the Holy City. For the former things shall be reserved for the heathens that will dwell in the Lake of Fire forever.
I think thats really funny. Sorta like saying..... "For most everyone there is no hope because God chose the saved and He only chose a few and He has chosen to torment the rest forever." ewwwww, what a sick perspective/view of the character of the Creator.
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 05:33:08 AM
I want to become a writer, but I am working on a separate project. A project that takes a verse from the Bible, quotes it correctly and then a verse helped that adds the "Eternal Torment" spin to it. Here is an example:
What the verse says:
Revelations 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
How the Church interprets the verse:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any pain for those that dwell within in the Holy City. For the former things shall be reserved for the heathens that will dwell in the Lake of Fire forever.
Any feedback good or bad would be greatly appreciated.
Ok, so just to play Devil's advocate, an ETer can say that, in context, That verse refers to those who inherit the city only, not to those who are outside the gates. Look at verse 3 compared to verse 8.
Quote from: Seth on November 21, 2014, 06:04:36 AM
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 05:33:08 AM
I want to become a writer, but I am working on a separate project. A project that takes a verse from the Bible, quotes it correctly and then a verse helped that adds the "Eternal Torment" spin to it. Here is an example:
What the verse says:
Revelations 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
How the Church interprets the verse:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any pain for those that dwell within in the Holy City. For the former things shall be reserved for the heathens that will dwell in the Lake of Fire forever.
Any feedback good or bad would be greatly appreciated.
Ok, so just to play Devil's advocate, an ETer can say that, in context, That verse refers to those who inherit the city only, not to those who are outside the gates. Look at verse 3 compared to verse 8.
I see your point, and I would have a thoughtful response to that as well, but then you have a problem of verses that contradict because the Bible says the former things have passed away which means it no longer exists. How can something pass away and still exist? Again, this was just a little experiment, but how would you word it differently out of curiosity.
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 07:39:39 AM
Quote from: Seth on November 21, 2014, 06:04:36 AM
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 05:33:08 AM
I want to become a writer, but I am working on a separate project. A project that takes a verse from the Bible, quotes it correctly and then a verse helped that adds the "Eternal Torment" spin to it. Here is an example:
What the verse says:
Revelations 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
How the Church interprets the verse:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any pain for those that dwell within in the Holy City. For the former things shall be reserved for the heathens that will dwell in the Lake of Fire forever.
Any feedback good or bad would be greatly appreciated.
Ok, so just to play Devil's advocate, an ETer can say that, in context, That verse refers to those who inherit the city only, not to those who are outside the gates. Look at verse 3 compared to verse 8.
I see your point, and I would have a thoughtful response to that as well, but then you have a problem of verses that contradict because the Bible says the former things have passed away which means it no longer exists. How can something pass away and still exist? Again, this was just a little experiment, but how would you word it differently out of curiosity.
For me its the promise of the new heavens and earth being in the Spirit of God though Christ / the Word is the new seed of hope for all mankind Rev 21
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away,
and there is no longer any sea.
2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband....
the sea is symbolically '' humanity '' many peoples tongues and nations that the beast and woman sits on , when they loose this hold Jesus is in power authority and He gives Living waters , His voice is like
the SOUND OF many waters
The term "sea" is the Greek "thalassa" which is used of all forms of water—the oceans, lakes, etc. There will be a river of water that flows through the New Jerusalem , but this is the only source of water that is mentioned when the sea is no more . Jesus Voice becomes the flow of living waters in heavenly City
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 05:33:08 AM
I want to become a writer, but I am working on a separate project. A project that takes a verse from the Bible, quotes it correctly and then a verse helped that adds the "Eternal Torment" spin to it. Here is an example:
What the verse says:
Revelations 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
How the Church interprets the verse:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any pain for those that dwell within in the Holy City. For the former things shall be reserved for the heathens that will dwell in the Lake of Fire forever.
Any feedback good or bad would be greatly appreciated.
I think it's true that orthodoxy distorts the evangel. That's why I think it is important for folks to study scripture themselves and not just trust somebody in the pulpit. If what you're hearing from anybody contradicts scripture, reject it.
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 07:39:39 AM
Quote from: Seth on November 21, 2014, 06:04:36 AM
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 05:33:08 AM
I want to become a writer, but I am working on a separate project. A project that takes a verse from the Bible, quotes it correctly and then a verse helped that adds the "Eternal Torment" spin to it. Here is an example:
What the verse says:
Revelations 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
How the Church interprets the verse:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any pain for those that dwell within in the Holy City. For the former things shall be reserved for the heathens that will dwell in the Lake of Fire forever.
Any feedback good or bad would be greatly appreciated.
Ok, so just to play Devil's advocate, an ETer can say that, in context, That verse refers to those who inherit the city only, not to those who are outside the gates. Look at verse 3 compared to verse 8.
I see your point, and I would have a thoughtful response to that as well, but then you have a problem of verses that contradict because the Bible says the former things have passed away which means it no longer exists. How can something pass away and still exist? Again, this was just a little experiment, but how would you word it differently out of curiosity.
My perspective on Revelation 20-22 is that it's revealing the establishment of the Kingdom in the earth and the day of the Lord. The results of that judgment are found in 1 Cor 15, where Paul describes "the end." The latter chapters of Revelation do not call themselves "the end." When Paul describes it, he says that "as in Adam all die, even so (in like manner) all shall be made alive." He goes on to describe how Jesus will place all enemies under his rule and authority, and destroy death. That's the end. And, the result is that God will be all in all.
Seems to me that ETers will say that God will be all in all...except...
I agree, brother.
Seems to me ETrs say God will be all in a few and the rest will burn outside of Him and He outside of them forever.
Yeah, and "as in Adam all die, even so (but not completely in all manner with regard to sin itself) in Christ shall some be made alive."
Talking to people in ET they believe that hell is a deserved punishment. Go figure.
And Seth, ET's deny all is really all. Go figure.
So, evil wins, in the ET view- over most of His creation. IMO it is an insane view, and that is why it causes SO MUCH pain and distress among the truly born of God who are held within the chains of it.
Quote from: eaglesway on November 21, 2014, 10:01:27 PM
Seems to me ETrs say God will be all in a few and the rest will burn outside of Him and He outside of them forever.
That's the purpose of that little experiment. To show what the verse says by that and then add there interpretation into the verse. My hope is if they see the original verse and then see the verse with their interpretation actually inserted into the verse, that would rethink there stance. I don't know maybe it's a fools errand.
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 05:33:08 AM
I want to become a writer, but I am working on a separate project. A project that takes a verse from the Bible, quotes it correctly and then a verse helped that adds the "Eternal Torment" spin to it. Here is an example:
What the verse says:
Revelations 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
How the Church interprets the verse:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any pain for those that dwell within in the Holy City. For the former things shall be reserved for the heathens that will dwell in the Lake of Fire forever.
Any feedback good or bad would be greatly appreciated.
"The lake of fire" will not last forever because it is "the second death" (Revelation 20:14), and death will be "abolished" (1 Corinthians 15:26).
Thats what we call basic math :o)
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on November 21, 2014, 05:33:08 AM
I want to become a writer, but I am working on a separate project. A project that takes a verse from the Bible, quotes it correctly and then a verse helped that adds the "Eternal Torment" spin to it. Here is an example:
What the verse says:
Revelations 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
How the Church interprets the verse:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any pain for those that dwell within in the Holy City. For the former things shall be reserved for the heathens that will dwell in the Lake of Fire forever.
Any feedback good or bad would be greatly appreciated.
The Bible most of the time focuses on God's people. Very often it's just assumed the reader knows that's what's written is about God's people. Just like in the verse you quoted.