http://www.jesus313.com/2010/biblical-studies/teachings/506/ looks like he's trying to refute Gary's article here at TM.
QuoteOn a quick side note, I also find it interesting that they use pagan Greek historians from the 1st Century B.C. and 4th Century B.C. to try to prove that the doctrine of Hell was fabricated
Well, how about the pagans that fabricated the hell myth?
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html
QuoteBut is it good common sense to try and argue that all derivatives of a root word mean the opposite of what the root word means? That doesn't make sense to me.
True, but that also means you can't just assume in means eternal when you like it to mean eternal.
He's right stating Jesus was resurrected and alive permanently and not for a limited duration. But is Scripture, in the verses he quoted really talking about time?
Read here to see a root word does not always tell us what the 'new' word means: http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/the-etymology-fallacy-the-root-word-fallacy-word-study-fallacy/
Another trap is to use a meaning not found in dictionaries at the time of writing the verses.
Anyway, I think it's beneficial to look at the Hebrew word behind all those eternals
Olam
Olam - H5769
BDB Definition:
1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
1a) ancient time, long time (of past)
1b) (of future)
1b1) for ever, always
1b2) continuous existence, perpetual
1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity
Olam is rooted in the word
Alam - H5956
BDB Definition:
1) to conceal, hide, be hidden, be concealed, be secret
1a) (Qal) secret (participle)
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be concealed
1b2) concealed, dissembler (participle)
1c) (Hiphil) to conceal, hide
1d) (Hithpael) to hide oneself
The meaning of the root Alam, is important to fully understand Olam.
Alam clear has the meaning of an obscure hidden something.
Exod 21:6 Then his master shall bring him to the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or to the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever (olam).
This olam lasts until the slave died. It's was of an obscure duration (olam) because it was unknown how long the slave would live.
Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
...
Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever (olam): yet have you brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
Jonah was only 3 days in the fish but because he didn't know when he would get out it was of obscure duration (olam)
When olam is used as a noun it has the meaning of a period of time with an obscure unknown duration, as in the above verses.
When used as an adjective olam refers to an obscure source. A type, not a duration. An adjective describes something or someone.
Red =
Gen 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting (olam) God.
That verse isn't about the age of God. It's about His nature. Nobody really fully knows Him because He's hidden and too complex to understand.
The color red. → Red is an noun.
A red car. → Car is a noun and red is an adjective.
The olam. → Olam is a noun.
The olam God → Olam is an adjective and God is a noun.
Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting (olam) punishment: but the righteous into eternal (olam) life.
Punishment and life are both nouns.
Everlasting and eternal are both adjectives.
I'm fully aware the Greek NT reads aionios and not olam, but the Aramaic NT reads olam. And in the LXX olam is translated as aionios. Click
So the correct translation is:
Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into God's punishment:
but the righteous into God's life.
A more literal translation would have something like 'obscure source' but because we know the source I've used God. So Matt 25:46 doesn't mention any duration.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/hebraic_meaning.html
So.....?
Eternal life: Life given by God or living without an end?
Eternal punishment: Punishment given by God or punishment without an end?
2 Corinthians 4:18: Without an end or from God?
So olam can be about duration and about the source.
I love it when they try "forever and ever" as if its a good translations. Several translation that keep "eternal" in matthew 25:46 translate "forever and ever" to "ages of the ages". Just remember Revelation 11:15 as long as it is translated "forever and ever" contradicts 1 Corinthians 15:25. That proves that, 1. Ages of the ages is correct and 2. It's not idiomatic usage and it is to be taken literally. Also, keep in mind Youngs, Rotherham, Emphatic Diaglott, Concordant literal and about 15 others the word "eternal" or "everlasting" never appears and these were done by brilliant greek scholars. And they were not done by universalist either, I think a few believed in conditional immortality. Also, "indeed very many"-(Augustine) in the early church till 500AD believed in conditionalism and UR so to them it obviously didn't mean eternal or everlasting. I always enjoy seeing some online apologetics sites attempt to "lay it down" as if its that simple.
QuoteI always enjoy seeing some online apologetics sites attempt to "lay it down" as if its that simple
Are you thinking of CARM as one of those? I used to agree with his articles, but not any more. Thank God for that...
The initial tone of the article put me off. "...the gospel is offensive" ...what??
Gospel literally means good news:
Old English gōdspel, from gōd 'good' + spel 'news, a story' (see spell2), translating ecclesiastical Latin bona annuntiatio or bonus nuntius, used to gloss ecclesiastical Latin evangelium, from Greek euangelion 'good news' (see evangel); after the vowel was shortened in Old English, the first syllable was mistaken for god 'God.'
And:
"Gospel is the translation of the Greek noun euangelion (occurring 76 times) "good news," and the verb euangelizo (occurring 54 times), meaning "to bring or announce good news." Both words are derived from the noun angelos, "messenger." In classical Greek, an euangelos was one who brought a message of victory or other political or personal news that caused joy. In addition, euangelizomai (the middle voice form of the verb) meant "to speak as a messenger of gladness, to proclaim good news."1 Further, the noun euangelion became a technical term for the message of victory, though it was also used for a political or private message that brought joy.2"
I was reading this verse today - "The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." - the interlinear -
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/3-36.htm - and am wondering if there really is a future tense to the will not see life.
It's - 3756 [e] 3708 [e]
ouk opsetai
οὐκ ὄψεται
not will see
Adv V-FIM-3S
3708. horaó ► to see, perceive, attend to
I noticed how some translations add "forever" to the phrase "but the wrath of God abides on him" or "never" to the phrase "will not (never) see life" - This to me, seems like translators running with the meaning.. Taking it further than the original intent when God inspired it.
Another thing I wonder about is, where does the original definition of a word leave off and translation kick in? take over? It just seems to me that sometimes even in the interlinear explanations, translators sometimes run with a word/meaning.. Or am I just paranoid? :laughing7:
Very informative thread! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
If we look at the verses he uses it looks like maybe he has something to say. There are so many false, twisted views that get promoted by people who use a selection of verses that seem to push a certain view. Someone makes legalism seem reasonable, someone else makes licentiousness seem reasonable, somebody else convinces people that if they do not use a certain interpretation of the names of Messiah that they will not be saved, someone else convinces people that service to God will produce material riches....it goes on and on and on.
But if you study the scriptures as a living oracle, meant to be read "in the Spirit" and understood as the mystery of God......it requires patience and persistence and a fearless pursuit of truth and grace.
"In all wisdom and insight, 9 he has made known to us the mystery of his will in accord with his favor that he set forth in him as a plan for the fullness of times, to sum up all things in Christ, in heaven and on earth." Eph 1
Paul says that the mystery of God is a plan to "sum up all things in Christ". He got that idea from Jesus, from whom Paul claims his "gospel"(good news).
"If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me" John 12:32
Remember, the people who were offended by Jesus' gospel were the religionists if His day.
"For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven." Colossians 1:19
People who otherwise stand on the inerrancy of the scriptures get suddenly wishy washy about it when they read these verses where Jesus and the apostles talk about "all things" being reconciled, summed up and restored.
The one who sits one the throne says, "Behold I am making all things new! Write down these words, they are faithful and true!" (Rev 21:5)
When Peter preached the "good news" He agreed with Jesus and Paul(who was yet to come). There is only one gospel.
"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time." Acts 3
As Peter says, even the prophets of old spoke of the restoration of all things and the reconciliation of all.
And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord God will wipe tears away from all faces, (Isaiah 25)
Paul agrees with Isaiah, in detail in 1 Corinthians 15
For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
Jesus will swallow up death and all things(everyone) will be gathered into one in Him. He is making all things new. That is the good news. It is offensive to the legalists and fundamentalists and religionists of every age, because it takes away the control of judgment and condemnation.
In Phil 2 it is written, "Every knee shall bow, in heaven and in earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."
Religionists will tell you that God will force everyone to bow just before He tosses them into hell forever. Really? Is that the Spirit of the one who so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son so that everyone who should believe in Him will not perish?
Are the words of the Lord Himself so weak? "..... I will draw all men unto me?"
But as the James says
"For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment."
Do not be cowed by these superficial studies, they are, if sincere, nevertheless, VERY MISINFORMED.
amen,John.....
Hey!
Cool discussion going on here.
I read the article the OP linked to and found it fascinatingly paradigm-driven. In other words, the author's desire to
want the noun
aiōn and it's adjective
aiōnios to mean "eternal" in English precedes his conclusion that these words
mean "eternal" simply because, "the (KJV) Bible tells me so," despite the detailed and difficult to refute work Tony and Gary did to explain why these words are mistranslated in the KJV.
I say difficult to refute because the author of the article we're discussing, Bryan, argues by using the English word chosen by the KJV translators and a misapplication of "temporary" (instead of "age enduring") to illustrate into absurdity certain passages that he then uses to show that the chosen word is correct! In other words, his logic is circular and so he fails to directly address the issue of bias brought up in Tony and Gary's article.
So, I concluded that the author simply doesn't
want to hear because he enjoys the paradigm of eternal torment for the wicked,
at least for as long as he can consider himself exempt!I got confirmation of this when I read his article that he linked to when he wrote, "... the gospel is offensive!" (http://www.jesus313.com/2010/writings/devos/477/)
Quote from: BryanThink of it this way... What do we do with murderers, rapists, and child molesters? We lock them up in prison, and some of them we execute. We do not allow them to roam the earth free to victimize more innocent people. Why? Because we desire to live in peace and happiness apart from these horrible acts. Jesus has the same philosophy on the matter. (Bryan's paradigm Ed.) It is God's desire that no one would go to hell, but that all would repent and be saved and inherit eternal life. However, God gives us the free will to choose, and leaves us to our decision. What kind of God would he be if he left all acts of wickedness and evil unchecked and unpunished for all of eternity? We might accuse him of having flawed judgment. However, God's judgments are just and true, and he will execute judgment on those who reject His love and choose wickedness. They will be imprisoned for eternity, and it is going to be really hot and miserable there. I'm glad I am saved by the grace of God and the blood of Jesus covers my sins!
Sounds pretty pleased, doesn't he, that egregious sinners - which, according to his theology must have once included him because
all human beings are
depraved, though he probably never murdered or raped or molested children - are going to be really hot and miserable (for all eternity)... but Boy Howdy! Not him! His sin is
covered by the blood of Jesus!
(Concerning the doctrine of the covering of sins, I like to think that, through the Spirit of Jesus, I have been
cleansed of my sins along with my conscience and that it's my responsibility, through heeding that Spirit,
to maintain that conscience clear before God, rather than having my sins, including my most recent ones, just "covered up.")
Now I can't help but wonder if, say, one of Bryan's similarly non-egregiously sinning children died prematurely not having accepted the blood of Jesus to cover his or her sins (does such a thing ever happen?)... would he be as quick to say that justice was done and his child deserves to be really hot and miserable (for all eternity)?
More interesting though is that in this same article the author lumps Jesus Himself, as well as the elect, in with the egregious sinners he listed that are deserving of being hot and miserable (for all eternity) when he said this:
Quote from: BryanI have found myself defending the fact that God's judgments are just and true. I have found myself defending the fact that Jesus & the resurrected Christians coming back as a literal army and murdering all of the unrepentant Satan worshipers left on the planet is actually the best thing that could happen. We're talking about the great end times crusade, led by Jesus himself. The death toll will probably be in the billions.
Could I conclude from his writings that Bryan is looking forward to the day when he'll get to commit mass-murder with impunity because he is among the elect and thus doing it in the name of God, with Jesus himself leading the charge?
Interesting, isn't it, how people can't help but speak from their hearts.
However, there is one other thing concerning this topic that I want to remind us of: there is a Greek word that, according to Strong's, seems to literally mean what we mean when we use the word "eternal;" and Paul and Jude used it: that word is the adjective
aïdios.
So, is it logical to conclude that because two suffix-differentiated Greek words share a common root,
aei they must mean
exactly the same thing?
What do you think Bryan would say?
Well, given his theology, it's likely he'd have to say, "Yes it
must" because, once made aware of this, he would immediately foreknow that to say otherwise would be to acknowledge that the writer's of the NT knew a word they could use if they meant "eternal" (which indeed they did use when they meant "eternal," according to Strong's), but
didn't use that word when they wrote in all the
other places where the KJV chose to translate a different adjective, aiōnios, with the same word, "eternal!"
Interestingly, if you go to Google and use it's Greek-to-English translator for ἀΐδιος (aïdios) you will get the English word "idiom" returned. However, if you use the English-to-Greek translator for "idiom" you get
back the Greek word ιδίωμα (idioma)!
But it get's better! Using the Greek-to-English translator for ιδίωμα (idioma) guess what you get back? Yep, "idiom!"
Then, when you enter "eternal" for English to Greek you get αιώνιος (aiōnios)! And then Greek to English for αιώνιος you get, you guessed it, "eternal!"
So what are we dealing with here? A difference between Koine Greek and modern Greek?
Because similarly confusing for using this same logic where the KJV translated the phrase
katabole kosmos as "foundation of the world," despite the fact that there is a
Greek word for foundation that was used by the NT writers when they actually meant "foundation" (so what does
katabole really mean? Because it cannot mean "foundation!" Shoot! Unlike
aïdios and
aiōnios it doesn't even share the same etymology as
themelios!), if you use Google translate and plug in the word "foundation" you get the word θεμέλιο (themélio). Likewise if you enter the phrase "the foundation of the world" you get back το θεμέλιο του κόσμου (to themélio tou kósmou). Then when you go Greek to English with θεμέλιο (themélio) you get back, that's right! "Foundation!"
But if you plug in the word καταβολή (katabolē) you get the English noun "payment." Likewise for καταβάλλω (katabollo) you get "I pay."
Then when you reverse the words returned from English to Greek you get a different word: πληρωμή (pliromí) for "payment" and πληρώνω (pliróno) for "I pay!"
So does anyone know why Google translate doesn't reflect consistently all of Strong's and therefore the KJV meanings?
It is interesting this Google thingy, isn't it, because if I stick with Strong's definitions of the way the KJV interprets Greek I can easily demonstrate that there was some slight-of-hand employed by the KJV where
aïdios vs.
aiōnios and where
katabolē vs.
themelios, thus creating a conundrum for those who claim Augustine of Hippo's loveless theology (then John Calvin's systematizing of that theology) as the defacto understanding in the original languages, a conundrum that would likely lead them to be disingenuous in defense of Augustine's medieval, Johnny-come-lately theology, a theology which drove the 4th century Latin translation then the English translations from the Latin.
For in the original languages, it becomes pretty doggone clear that Jesus Christ is the Savior of All mankind; clear, that is, if there is the desire to have one's paradigm challenged.
Glad to see this discussion going!
I used to think like that :flamebreath: death breath :eek: carnally minded , things of this world only , very , very , small view .
Amen John ... :dsunny:
Truly the wisdom of the world is foolishness to God ..
1 Corinth 3 18Let no one deceive himself. If any of you thinks he is wise in this age, he should become a fool, so that he may become wise.
19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness."
20And again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."... the carnal mind is the being subject to vanity and fruitless and temporary world we call the here and now .the flesh and blood that was never to inherit Gods Kingdom , but it was that spirit in that man King Neb full of pride and error /sin that made him rise and fall before God
Mankind or a better term is ''kings of the earth '' has made his own world , and god and religious'' Image ''' his thinking is still under the mark of the beast , which is basically missing out on the Spirit of Life and LOVE :sigh:
King Neb is a great example of making those worship his image , he created in his own mind or kill them if they do not bow down to his image he created in his own exalted kingdom ..
If you read the book of Daniel you get an idea King Neb was wayyyyyy off and How the True and Living God dealt with his pride and his foolishness in Dan 4
but King Neb was made a believer and change of garment [Spirit ]Because Love covers the multitude of sin/ error ] Like a White Sheet that come down out of Heaven to Peter and all the carnal creature were in this SHEET] another example of God saying Judge nothing before its time and that is excellent advice to Live by ..
King Nebs judgment from heaven was , by cutting him down to size but left the stump ., so in this lesson / message King Neb was destroyed and God made new from the ''foundation '' the seed was in the stump ''root'' all from the beginning found back from Adam when God made them in His Image ! Isaiah 6 ...12"The LORD has removed men far away, And the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land. 13"Yet there will be a tenth portion in it, And it will again be subject to burning, Like a terebinth or an oak Whose stump remains when it is felled. The holy seed is its stump."
I always loved this book of the bible because it was sentenced for King Neb to be destroyed DIE , yet he did not literally die , but was changed and humbled and that old man of pride died though suffering and made a new creature in Christ even Back than , because Jesus Christ is was and will be all in all
and it was a Watcher a holy one SPIRITUAL messenger from the heavenly court system that sentenced him .. We have judgments in the earth big time ..
People need to understand its so much bigger and more than we can imagine in the limited earthy sensual and devilish mind, it does take repent ,for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand !
change your mind literally from the carnal one to the mind of Christ , to me this is the real meaning ,,, it is the HOLY SPIRITUAL ONE that God pours out His amazing grace upon to be able to grow in truth and grace and it is for sure incorruptible !! true foundation to build upon from God Himself ..
The best advice anyone can give,,,, to me is , Ask God for His wisdom for yourself , dont let up , keep asking seeking read the Word of God daily , its true bread for the eater and knock and knock till the Lord opens the door for you and let you in ...
Time , oh boy , time is the foolishness of which God stumbles the wise with .. they cannot ever understand Gods timing
This is for REAL ... that is why Revelation of Christ is such a mystery I believe
This is why Gods Word says ,await on the Lord and Here is the patience of the saints/ holy ones and Wait till God brings it to Light and judgement etc. scriptures .
Mankind has a watch on his wrist now a days measuring time as a hour lol , and does his whole world by that watch lol ... If you ever done a study on the hour in the bible and really get down and study those scriptures with other scriptures and the hour of trial that shall come upon the whole world and this is that last hour , My hour has not yet come .there was silence in the heavens for
the space of an 1/2 hour ....etc. and so many , many more .
An hour is merely a moment in time .. the moment it happens ...What ever God has said would come ,will come ,you can bank on it . its like a flash .. not a human hour that man sets his wisdom and understanding upon.
Think about that , no one had a watch back in the day!! Abraham with a wrist watch , really ?? lol :eek: or Iphone ha ha .
If forever is an age and that age of experience is death [carnal mindedness ] did you pass from death to Life when the Spirit of Life come unto you ?? and you received the Mind of Christ .
Anyone can say they have it , but it is the fruit that the Holy Spirit bears that is proof .. not great swelling boasting words of exalted grandeur of I see , I see and know , it is the opposite , God knows ,God knows , and we bear witness by the Holy Spirit of truth and that the WORD OF TRUTH is dead on ... exact and perfect and flawless .
But it is by Gods Holy Spirit that knows and you hear the sound of it , so you are not the interpreter of the Word of God , it is the Holy Sprint that is !!bearing witness and it is in you working better than any watch on your wrist or phone in your hand , or computer you are staring at .
Knowledge will increase , but we must take into account the difference between the wisdom of the world and the Wisdom of God and only the HOLY SPIRIT CAN DO THAT!! You cannot do anything like that on your own or by your own fruitless spirit ., yours must be joined to His and working in union with the Sprint of Christ . Gods whole creation was subjected to vanity not willingly , mind you , but the planted in corruption was inevitable to happen first , being that tree which we all are made of tree of knowlege of good and evil , the good is there , but it is not perfect , and the evil, well that is as corruptible as can be ...
Tree of Life is the perfect that comes and does away with the other tree , but the stump has the incorruptible seed within it , so when you get hewn down , we start by Gods grace to be made a new and perfect/complete in Spirit in CHRIST
This is Gods glory , He does it all , the whole thing ,so waiting on the Lord is the true wisdom to hold on to and keep that hope alive and begin to understand it [ Proverbs 8 ] just be so thankful to God to be a part of it all :HeartThrob:
and know this love that always remains even when all the knowledge ceases because everyone will know , from the least to the greatest, all will know God ...
Folks wont believe me or others , one raised from the dead , why should they ? they dont believe God or Jesus either , if they did they would hear us all , and believe in the waters [voices ] of Life freely that flow from the throne of Gods grace ..and partake of them ..
but they love there own kind .
Rev 21 ...5And the One seated on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Then He said, "Write this down, for these words are faithful and true."
6And He told me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life.
7The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son....
We whom Believe God rest in this great hope and wait on the Lord to do just as He promised to do without wavering ..
Ps what helped me most was a study and quickening ,I believe led by the Holy Spirit because the desire to know God was not of my self but a great urging and hunger to learn about God , like a jolt of Life coursing though my being , it took days and weeks but the thing is when it happens to you , you will just know and all that shaky doubt leaves you and a good solid understanding springs forth and it is unmovable or unshakable profound truth , it really is a foundation that cannot be moved .
and no one coming along with the sting of death in their tails harms you nor any poison they desire you to drink from them phases you , you just keep praising God and give Him the glory and love what He is doing for all , so thankful, no worries when you know God has got this thing covered from the beginning to end and God will be all in all .
It is the way the WORD OF GOD is worded you will notice things you never noticed before , and the wow moments ! lots of wow moments , like why did I not see this before , over and over again !! But it is God whom gives the increase of grace upon grace and you say , Lord I dont deserve to know these things , but thank you so much , what a comfort this is to know and understand !! What a joy it is to KNOW YOU !!
You want more and more and cannot stop ! we become ''consumed '' by Him obsessed even , asking for the Truth and to be set free .
I know this time thing has many concerned , but here was a question I asked God to answer for me about the forever and ever thing and the ages stuff and it is so confusing !! , being a real simple gal needed the Lord to please be clear and some simplicity in Christ.
Look how I try to write lol ,, it is proof that I have no skills in writing ha ha .
Gods Word and Spirit are the only eternal things that exist , Nothing , I do mean nothing outside of God Himself is everlasting and forever and ever .. we have to get this '' to get it ..
If you cannot stretch your faith and mind to think past this concept you will stumble , big time every time .
You have a small image god , if you cannot go beyond that veil .. we create these things in our own minds and begin to worship them things and call them god , but it is not the TRUE AND LIVING GOD , my no means .
So much more than the imagination can muster up being carnal/temporary and all and preoccupied with death and the fear of it ..
DEATH is the works of the devil for sure ... and Jesus Christ come to destroy the works of the devil because Jesus Christ is the truth and the Resurrection and the Life and nothing or no one can take His place ever ...but the substitute is the false Christ the fake anointed ones thinking they have ''the truth '' But their light is the darkness and how great is that darkness !! darkness is ignorance of Gods desire , We know that GOD is patient and long suffering that no one should perish ,
and yet in ADAM ALL PERISH !! WOW
So when God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because in that DAY he would surly die ..
Adams DAY was death than right ? But Adam lived 920 years how can that be a day than ?
What?? but God said though , in the day you eat , you shall surly die , what kind of a day is this than ?
Well Peter clears up a lot of the confusion by saying a 1000 years is a day to GOD and a DAY is a 100 years , because He spiritually speaking did not want us to be ignorant / in the outer darkness of Gods Wisdom ..
We can find some more of this in the Psalms David wrote us about also ..
So Adam really did not even live one day in GODS sight ,, but 70 years shy of this one day , well God gave us 70 years and 80 by grace to Finnish out the ADAMS day ,,, so we are all in Adam still [1000 years =ONE DAY in Gods sight ]
So now the captivity of Babylon is 70 years for Israel , that is also our lifespan of being in Adam first and 2nd captivity of the Sprint of Babylon, King Neb a king of the earth was proof of this as it is today , right ?
930+70 = 1000 years and a Day in Gods sight .... all wrapped up in that truth THE 6TH DAY WAS VERY GOOD , but the DAY OF THE LORD is 1000 years reign IS THE SABBATH REST IN THE LORD and the [Adam 930 years and Babylon 70 years =1000 =ONE DAY ]
Gen 1
26Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth." 29Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so. 31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
But we know now that corruption come from the evil in the tree of knowlege of good and evil , just a little evil brought death in Adam and many know that the pride of Life is the evil that corrupts and touches everything good and destroys it
so we have all this rottenness and every evil thing that sprung forth from that one seed of of the mixed tree of both seeds in them
Cain was from the evil seed that killed Abel the good seed so evil was present , till God allowed another good seed , Seth to come take Abel's place ans so on to see the good and evil mixing going on and on till the Perfect seed CHRIST /WORD OF GOD /LIFE would come forth out of corruption and death [1Cor 15]
IT IS THE SEVENTH DAY REST and resurrection seed to come forth from death into an abundant Life
in Gen 2 The Creation of Man and Woman
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.
It is done from the beginning to end in 7 days which is a cardinal number that means what ?
It is a pattern , and God is wonderful organizer of patterns , that start and fulfill and end over and over again as sets and seasons and days an years and hours etc ...
So anyone trying to outsmart God and think that they know anything as they ought , think again!!
I have literally become a fool for Christ sake , my carnal mind is useless , worthless and quite frankly annoying and am trying so hard to get it behind me Satan and it is an adversary to Gods will/desire and life in Christ that none should perish now and certainly will not by the free gift of salvation bought by the blood of the Lord Jesus CHRIST BY HIS OWN BLOOD that LOVES WITHOUT MEASURE AND COVER THE MULTITUDE of sin / errors /missing the Higher calling of rise , come forth and be with Me!! our life as we know it here is but a vapor we rise and fly way Psalms 144;4 and James 4 ;14 ,,,
His wrath is but for a moment [hour of trial that comes upon the whole world ] but His mercy endures forever !!! psalms 30;5
So sorry this is soooo long and there is so much more , But the scriptures all speak the same things, it is God whom divides and separates souls / lives and Spirits /beings Hebrew 4 and what God has joined together let no man separate , just trying to strive against God is great error on our part ... and you will not get the victory ..because GOD IS LOVE and out shines and consumes and wins every time .
Hope you consider reading Gods Word for yourselves it is awesome ! and ask His Spirit to teach you everything that convicts us and chastens us and comforts us most of all ... to Know God is to Love Him .. :HeartThrob: