2 Corinthians 12:1-5 and 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

[ghost kid]

2 Corinthians 12:1-5 and 1 Corinthians 5:1-5.What do you think? :Chinscratch:

[marie glen]

2 Corinthians 12:1-5 and 1 Corinthians 5:1-5.What do you think? :Chinscratch:

2Cor.12 ? 1 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know?God knows. 3 And I know that this man?whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows? 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. 5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses.

I?ve read he was perhaps talkjng about himself but didn?t want any sort of praise.. so couched it as another? I think of it as a vision and not traveling anywhere as Jn.13:13 says ?  No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is..?

1Cor.5 ? 1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father?s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn?t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

:Chinscratch: I think in the natural we were all handed over to the adversary, or more exactly to life as we presently know it (as sieve and crucible) that ultimately we all are saved.. As had Eden had no option to stray, I think creation would have to be a mere ant farm. So I think of it as perhaps God had basically two choices for creation, a total ant farm, oR create beings endowed with thinking and reasoning, which includes at keast some power of choice, and let it run its course. This unavoidable yet all important contrast thoroughly proving to all that straying/imperfection can never work, as surely(?) God iS life and he ?is perfect? Mt.5:48. So imperfrct is the opposite of Life. ..And it?s an abyss of potential, already proven by history.
  That?s how I tend to think of it anyway. :gsmile: :Peace2:

[marie glen]

If someone speaks about spiritual experiences/visons/miracles (etc) they have had, - some people may think they are lieing, or boasting, or they might become envious of that person, or even angry at God.
"How come God did that for them and not for me?"
Such things are not: 'profitable', and Paul and true believers everywhere are all about: 'edifying' (building up).

I feel that Paul was taking the limelight from himself here as he reported (on what many assume was a NDE) (possibly/probably after being stoned and dragged out of Lystra)
"But Jews came from Antioch and Iconium, and having persuaded the crowds, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing that he was dead". - Acts 14:19.
Paul went to (whether in body or out of he is uncertain) - the third heaven.  The first heaven being the immediate sky/atmosphere (clouds).  Second; what some call: 'space' (star realm), and the third; the spiritual realm - outside of space and time... 'Paradise'; where he heard things not for regular human ears to hear (at present). - So he kept them to himself and took the limelight from himself; instead 'glorying' and 'boasting' only in his 'infirmities' (weaknesses), thus setting an example for his hearers to do the same; (because they are the things (humbling) that lead to being exhaulted (such as Paul was) in the first place).

People seek miracles and glory, but they don't know what is good for them.
They don't want to experience the humbling/fire that is the very (and ONLY thing) that will get them to exaltation. - They want the cake before they take time to bake it - but it doesn't work like that. 

Paul 'knew' his audience and how best to: 'communicate' with it, (all things to all men (to a Jew a Jew, to a Greek a Greek (etc)), and I fully agree with him in all things he says.

Also, Paul wasn't seeking glory from men, nor his ego inflated. 
If our ego gets inflated; we may ourselves lose our humility.  (This happened to Paul)...
"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure". - 2 Cor 12:7.

Paul knew what he was doing.

     :thumbsup: Very interesting!

[marie glen]

He who has suffered in the body is through with sin.

"Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin". - 1 Peter 4:1
Mankind gets as much: 'fire' as is necessary to correct them (for their own benefit, (and because we are all 'part' (offspring) of the Father Himself (Who walks in us)).
Thus, our will (at Source) is God's ultimately.
Anything of true worth has to be earned... respect, honor, love (etc),  In humanity's ignorant, carnal and sinful state; they don't want to follow the: (only) 'Way' to get there. - It means loving their enemies, standing against the 'whole world' etc. - Too much like hard work for most, and to others it makes no sense as they (satanically) cater for 'self preservation' - ignorant they are part of all.
Jesus said:
" Now go and leave your life of sin or something worse might happen to you".  (John 5:14).

Everyone is being made perfect as their Father is perfect, (so as through 'little' or 'much' fire) for as long as it takes.
Thus:- Paul: 'handed over' this person to Satan for the destruction of their flesh (temporal) that the soul (perpetual/aionian) be saved.  The flesh: 'profits nothing', since it is spirit that vivifies.  'People' are not their bodies and so Paul was concerned with the important part of this person - the inner person, and we should be viewing things the same.

  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: