Wrestling with something

[MusicLover123]

Thanks MG. Have to disagree a bit though.

Not saying ALL NDE's are true, but there are some that are scientifically verifiable, and from people who even had been dead for several days, and from people like children, who's NDE's are remarkably similar to those of an adult. It seems usually to not even depend on what kind of person it is(I see a few exceptions, like eastern like one's, those I discard right away as I don't see Scriptural support for those.

And, even from atheists. Why would an atheist dream of these things? Even ones mentioned here before, like that person who had never seen the Lord's Prayer before was given to him in that.

I don't think Satan can give people the presence and Love of God either. If that were true, then most, including me would be deceived.

Still not 100% convinced on these things, hence the title "wrestling with something"  :laughing7:

Certainly don't want to be carried away by man's doctrines and swallowed up by the world. Mainly because I go to Scripture and God for everything(hopefully) and not rely on my own power and wisdom.

[marie glen]

That's okay... It's perfectly okay for us to disagree! :gsmile:
I think the knowledge of God is in all people. My staunch atheist brother, I know in his heart he knows God is. This really makes me more aware of how creative the human mind is! Even while so limited.. :Chinscratch: Very interesting.. we create for ourselves a sort of Elysium fields.. (the phrase "Elysium fields" has been running through my mind for a few days.. now I finally get to write it! lol..) Is this the "asleep in Jesus" of 1 Thessalonians, chapter 4 I wonder?

The verse which most guided me in my search for truth and understanding is Jeremiah 33:3 (and i want to understand the big picture and everything involved with it!)

Jeremiah 33:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
3 ‘Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.’

While I'm thinking of favorite things Jeremiah said - 31:3 -- "The Lord has appeared of old to me, saying ..Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love, therefore with lovingkindness do I draw thee."
:friendstu:

[GodIsLove]

I have spent way too much time reading NDEs...

And in doing so I do believe some or many are truly experiencing something.

It is not for me to try to convince anyone else, but from the amount of time I have spent, like ML says, there are interesting accounts by children and by people with nothing to gain. I am wary of anyone selling books or making sensational YouTube videos but there are at least 3 web sites that allow people to submit their experiences and those contain so many with common threads by everyday people.

So many people come back believing in God, feeling more love, and feeling a sense of purpose.

I'd say NDEs have scriptural support when they:

Talk of God as love
Experience a life review aka the judgment but their eyes are opened to all of the things they did on earth and how their actions affected others
Talk about how we all came from God and all will return (this is surprisingly common in NDEs which makes me skeptical that they are just dreams)
Talk about after-death learning/redemption etc because I believe UR necessitates this to some extent, how it plays out I don't know
Some NDEs talk about how those in "hell" are constantly being ministered by angels/God but they are too stubborn to see the "light" but will eventually respond

For the NDEs that are questionable I do wonder if those are a dream or if the person's own biases cloud what they experience so they are misinterpreting things. Anyone who comes back talking of hell inadvertently proves it's not eternal because they escaped it!  Anyone talking about other questionable things like reincarnation may be misinterpreting things, the past lives may just be preexistence, which is controversial but not totally unbiblical or unchristian IMO...or maybe in limited circumstances God who is love grants to people a second chance on earth such as aborted babies but again it's speculation and I don't want to get too far out there for the sake of this forum.

So anyway NDEs did help solidify my view of Universal Salvation because they often talk about immense love and forgiveness and returning to God.

The spirit returns to God:
Ecc 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Paul talking of being absent from the body and present with the lord:

2 Corinthians 5
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Paul talking of dying and going to Christ:

Philippians 1:21-23
For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;


Paul had a vision that sounds similar to NDEs:

2 Corinthians 12
I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

Jesus speaking of whoever believes in him will not die:

17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about [a]two miles away. 19 And many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You."

23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."

24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

27 She said to Him, "Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world."

This is my opinion, and I only share these things to try to help, but things are subject to change as the scales fall off more and more and the veil is lifted. I believe God reveals things to us if we seek but in His time as we are ready and I don't claim to have the truth, just seeking like everyone else.

[lastpost]

One day, two greenfly were having a fine meal on their favourite plant. One said to the other:

"My oh my, are we not fortunate to be eating in the sunshine all day long as lords of all that we survey!"

At that moment, a couple of ants pounced on the greenfly out of nowhere. One ant said to the other:

My oh my, we are indeed fortunate to be able to find easy food every day for us and for our family - we are surely lords of all that we survey, and greenfly always come back to the same place so we can feast again!"

Then, lo and behold, there came a couple of anteaters and slurped up the ants in a flash. One anteater said to the other:

"Come husband, don't roll over in contentment and think you are lord of all you survey, Tiger comes this way through the forest every day looking for an easy meal. Let us retreat to the refuge of our sanctuary home for ants always come back to the same place and we can return tomorrow and feast once more".

[MusicLover123]

Mentioned this in a PM already, but here is the evidence page of that website.

https://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html

I will put an excerpt here, but there are many more on that page.

Dr. Jeffrey Long is a physician practicing the specialty of radiation oncology in Houma, Louisiana. Dr. Long served on the Board of Directors of IANDS, and is actively involved in NDE research. In his book, "Evidence of the Afterlife: The Science of Near-Death Experiences," Dr. Long documents a study he conducted - the largest scientific study of NDEs ever. It is based on his research of over 1,300 NDEs shared with NDERF.org. Using his treasure trove of data, Dr. Long explains how NDEs cannot be explained by brain chemistry alone, how medical evidence fails to explain them away and why there is only one plausible explanation - that people have survived death and traveled to another dimension. Dr. Long makes his case using nine lines of evidence and they are the following:

1.
Crystal-Clear Consciousness. The level of conscious alertness during NDEs is usually greater than that experienced in everyday life - even though NDEs generally occur when a person is unconscious or clinically dead. This high level of consciousness while physically unconscious is medically unexplained. Additionally, the elements in NDEs generally follow the same consistent and logical order in all age groups and around the world, which refutes the possibility that NDEs have any relation to dreams or hallucinations.

2.
Realistic Out-of-Body Experiences (OBEs): OBEs are one of the most common elements of NDEs. Events witnessed and heard by NDErs while in an out-of-body state are almost always realistic. When the NDEr or others later seek to verify what was witnessed or heard during the NDE, their OBE observations are almost always confirmed as completely accurate. Even if the OBE observations include events occurring far away from the physical body, and far from any possible sensory awareness of the NDEr, the OBE observations are still almost always confirmed as completely accurate. This fact alone rules out the possibility that NDEs are related to any known brain functioning or sensory awareness. This also refutes the possibility that NDEs are unrealistic fragments of memory from the brain.

3.
Heightened Senses. Not only are heightened senses reported by most who have NDEs, normal or supernormal vision has occurred in those with significantly impaired vision, and even legal blindness. Several people who have been totally blind since birth have reported highly visual NDEs. This is medically unexplainable.

4.
Consciousness During Anesthesia. Many NDEs occur while the NDEr is under general anesthesia - at a time when any conscious experience should be impossible. While some skeptics claim these NDEs may be the result of too little anesthesia, this ignores the fact that some NDEs result from anesthesia overdose. Additionally, descriptions of a NDEs differ greatly from those people who experiences "anesthetic awareness." The content of NDEs occurring under general anesthesia is essentially indistinguishable from NDEs that do not occur under general anesthesia. This is more strong evidence that NDEs occur independent from the functioning of the material brain.

5.
Perfect Playback. Life reviews in NDEs include real events which previously occurred in the lives of the NDEr - even if the events were forgotten or happened before they were old enough to remember.

6.
Family Reunions. During an NDE, the experiencer may encounter people who are virtually always deceased and are usually relatives of the NDEr. Sometimes they include relatives who died before the NDEr was even born. If NDEs are merely the product of memory fragments, they would almost certainly include far more living people, including those with whom they had more recently interacted.

7.
Children's Experiences. The NDEs of children, including very young children who are too young to have developed concepts of death, religion, or NDEs, are essentially identical to those of older children and adults. This refutes the possibility that the content of NDEs is produced by preexisting beliefs or cultural conditioning.

8.
Worldwide Consistency. NDEs appear remarkably consistent around the world, and across many different religions and cultures. NDEs from non-Western countries are incredibly similar to those occurring in people in Western countries.

9.
Aftereffects. It is common for people to experience major life changes after having NDEs. These aftereffects are often powerful, lasting, life-enhancing, and the changes generally follow a consistent pattern. NDErs themselves are practically universal in their belief that their experience of the afterlife was real.

And, here is the science page too

https://www.near-death.com/science.html

Again, I am ignoring most on this website, but not all of it.

[marie glen]

I have spent way too much time reading NDEs...

And in doing so I do believe some or many are truly experiencing something.

It is not for me to try to convince anyone else, but from the amount of time I have spent, like ML says, there are interesting accounts by children and by people with nothing to gain. I am wary of anyone selling books or making sensational YouTube videos but there are at least 3 web sites that allow people to submit their experiences and those contain so many with common threads by everyday people.

So many people come back believing in God, feeling more love, and feeling a sense of purpose.

I’d say NDEs have scriptural support when they:

Talk of God as love
Experience a life review aka the judgment but their eyes are opened to all of the things they did on earth and how their actions affected others
Talk about how we all came from God and all will return (this is surprisingly common in NDEs which makes me skeptical that they are just dreams)
Talk about after-death learning/redemption etc because I believe UR necessitates this to some extent, how it plays out I don’t know
Some NDEs talk about how those in “hell” are constantly being ministered by angels/God but they are too stubborn to see the “light” but will eventually respond

For the NDEs that are questionable I do wonder if those are a dream or if the person’s own biases cloud what they experience so they are misinterpreting things. Anyone who comes back talking of hell inadvertently proves it’s not eternal because they escaped it!  Anyone talking about other questionable things like reincarnation may be misinterpreting things, the past lives may just be preexistence, which is controversial but not totally unbiblical or unchristian IMO...or maybe in limited circumstances God who is love grants to people a second chance on earth such as aborted babies but again it’s speculation and I don’t want to get too far out there for the sake of this forum.

So anyway NDEs did help solidify my view of Universal Salvation because they often talk about immense love and forgiveness and returning to God.

The spirit returns to God:
Ecc 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Paul talking of being absent from the body and present with the lord:

2 Corinthians 5
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Paul talking of dying and going to Christ:

Philippians 1:21-23
For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;


Paul had a vision that sounds similar to NDEs:

2 Corinthians 12
I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

Jesus speaking of whoever believes in him will not die:

17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about [a]two miles away. 19 And many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

This is my opinion, and I only share these things to try to help, but things are subject to change as the scales fall off more and more and the veil is lifted. I believe God reveals things to us if we seek but in His time as we are ready and I don’t claim to have the truth, just seeking like everyone else.

I know it’s almost like there’s teo realities at play.. it’s seems very curious sometimes.. I did read however in the interlinear that aionian was in the verse in which Jesus said whoever believes in Him will never die “to or into” the age..

And I believe as soon as a believer dies, the next thing they know we will be rising and thus shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then of course there’s the verses Paul wrote abou immortality being put on at the resurrection at the last day.. I know some people think that refers to every one’s unique last day but I can’t see that..

I guess we may not for sure understand the truth of this until whatever last day fulfills it.. Or sooner, if as some folks believe the individual spirit is eternal/immortal and it is the body which is raised.. but the verse “with what body shall they rise?” for instance doesn’t seem to read that way to me.

But then there’s the curious account in the Old Testament of Saul going to a medium - which he himself had outlawed from the land - and she called Samuel from his grave for him and he said to Saul why did you disturb my rest (whatever his “rest” was/is). All very strange. It will be interesting to finally know the truth one day!

[jugghead]

Here's a question:

Why are these experiences labeled a "near death experience" when they could very well be labeled a "near life experience"?

[marie glen]

One day, two greenfly were having a fine meal on their favourite plant. One said to the other:

"My oh my, are we not fortunate to be eating in the sunshine all day long as lords of all that we survey!"

At that moment, a couple of ants pounced on the greenfly out of nowhere. One ant said to the other:

My oh my, we are indeed fortunate to be able to find easy food every day for us and for our family - we are surely lords of all that we survey, and greenfly always come back to the same place so we can feast again!"

Then, lo and behold, there came a couple of anteaters and slurped up the ants in a flash. One anteater said to the other:

"Come husband, don't roll over in contentment and think you are lord of all you survey, Tiger comes this way through the forest every day looking for an easy meal. Let us retreat to the refuge of our sanctuary home for ants always come back to the same place and we can return tomorrow and feast once more".

"Dog eat dog" ..even more so these days with the theory of dog eat dog / survival of the fittest..

Won't it be Great when "there will be no more hurting in all the Kingdom"..

"They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." Isaiah 1:9
  :gsmile:

[GodIsLove]

One day, two greenfly were having a fine meal on their favourite plant. One said to the other:

"My oh my, are we not fortunate to be eating in the sunshine all day long as lords of all that we survey!"

At that moment, a couple of ants pounced on the greenfly out of nowhere. One ant said to the other:

My oh my, we are indeed fortunate to be able to find easy food every day for us and for our family - we are surely lords of all that we survey, and greenfly always come back to the same place so we can feast again!"

Then, lo and behold, there came a couple of anteaters and slurped up the ants in a flash. One anteater said to the other:

"Come husband, don't roll over in contentment and think you are lord of all you survey, Tiger comes this way through the forest every day looking for an easy meal. Let us retreat to the refuge of our sanctuary home for ants always come back to the same place and we can return tomorrow and feast once more".

I'm terrible with interpreting parables/fables.
:dontknow:

[marie glen]

...”The lion will eat straw like the ox and the bear will graze with the cow!” :cloud9: (Isaiah 11:7, i don’t know why I always write that verse backwards)

So great will be His subduing, that “the small child will be able to play at the entrance to the poisonous serpent’s den”. (Is 11:6(?)
:banana:

Otherwise I cannot interpret it either..

I have had a vision in my head every so often, that one day all in heaven and earth for a moment or so, before around God’s throne, all, in utter awe.. all will be silent and still before Him.
:dontknow: :Peace2:

[MusicLover123]

I know it's almost like there's teo realities at play.. it's seems very curious sometimes.. I did read however in the interlinear that aionian was in the verse in which Jesus said whoever believes in Him will never die "to or into" the age..

Something came to me recently. Even if it is living to the age, this age is not over yet! The question is, then, is it this age, the next age, or both?

Here's a question:

Why are these experiences labeled a "near death experience" when they could very well be labeled a "near life experience"?

I don't know why, the the Prodigal son comes to mind.

Luk 15:24  For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. 

[lastpost]

In my opinion, when the Aeon of the aeons (or Age of ages) ["all through the generations of the Aeon of aeons" => τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων Eph. 3:21] is completed, it will be because the Grand Consummation has occurred.

To those who pass through that great Aeon, identified with Christ, it will mean an Aeon of enhanced and superabundant life; a life in which the participators of it have become beyond the reach of Aeonial pruning or Aeonial 'death'.

As I see it now, that is what our Lord meant when He said: 'If a man keep My word, he shall not see death all through the Aeon' (John 8:51). And beyond that Aeon is timelessness - the inhabitants of the Aeon of aeons have merged into blessed Divine timelessness where a description of "Aeon" is no longer appropriate – it is God-life, the One God who is Being, the Divine I AM, a condition of holy purity where all the inhabitants, as His children, share in that I AM-ness with, and in, the great Supreme Being who gave them life.

God's children – no longer spiritually dead because of the work of Christ - live eternally, because God loves them eternally – He does not make them disappear somewhere and stop loving them – forbid such a burden to Him.

Life does not stop because and age passes into another age. The Iron Age simply meant a change of consciousness as to how life was lived; the Bronze Age the same - flowers still grew, birds still flew – life continues.

The Bible says that man was made in the image of God. God is eternal. Once the Grand Consummation has occurred, the children of God live eternally with God, having become Divinely pure - with total and complete experience, understanding and knowledge - because of their progression through the Aeon of aeons brought into being for that one purpose – i.e. the "purpose of the aeons" (Eph. 3:11).

[marie glen]

I know it’s almost like there’s teo realities at play.. it’s seems very curious sometimes.. I did read however in the interlinear that aionian was in the verse in which Jesus said whoever believes in Him will never die “to or into” the age..

Something came to me recently. Even if it is living to the age, this age is not over yet! The question is, then, is it this age, the next age, or both?

I think of it as "shall not die into the age" -

I think it means those who live and believe in Him, during this life, will live with Him during the Millennium.

the verse -https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/11-26.htm

the Greek - https://biblehub.com/greek/1519.htm
                 = eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.


19:11 - 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True

19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse..

19:20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;
20:5 and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this [is] the first rising again.
20:6 Happy and holy [is] he who is having part in the first rising again; over these the second death hath not authority, but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Commonly called, as we know, the Millennium rule of Christ.)

Then after the millennium,
20:7 And when the thousand years may be finished..
20:11 ..I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;

20:12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God

Here's a question:

Why are these experiences labeled a "near death experience" when they could very well be labeled a "near life experience"?

I don't know why, the the Prodigal son comes to mind.

Luk 15:24  For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
[/quote]

:Chinscratch: Interesting..

[MusicLover123]

Here's another link. I clicked on the paranormal part of the website, but then quickly got out because that is just playing with spirits imo.

https://www.near-death.com/science/evidence/people-see-verified-events-while-obe.html

Also, Sparrows testimony surprised me too. I used to dismiss these things, but I think God is opening my eyes and showing me that there really is more to it.

[GodIsLove]

What is sparrows testimony?

[MusicLover123]

I wanted people to look it up themselves, but I guess I'll post it here:

"Way back when I was in High School, my mother was stricken with cancer. After years of horrendous treatments, she had been brought home from the hospital, to die. Hospice was there. Her last moments, a little bird flew up to the window and peered in at all of us standing around her hospital bed which was in the middle of the living room. That little bird just sat there peering in at all of us, and wouldn't fly away. Just stared. Meanwhile, my mother was incoherent and mumbling and struggling, moving her head from side to side, and we knew this was it.... this was the end. All of a sudden, this great peace came over her, she stopped struggling, and she said softly, slowly and clearly with absolute childlike wonder, awe and amazement.... "Hi..Granny..!"
Then, suddenly the bird flew away, and she died at that moment. Our Granny had died 3 years before.

Never will I forget this.
The peace.... the wonder in her voice."

[GodIsLove]

Cool thanks.

I was trying to look it up and couldn't find it. I went to the testimony board and it wasn't there and I also looked at sparrows posting history and couldn't find it.

[Dandelion]

God never abandons us or leaves us to our own devices.

Why should He not have a presence with us, to lead us to the 'other side'?

I guess, knowing He sends people to help us, here on earth, why not to walk with us through the valley of death, into His wonderous Light?

Sounds like it could be a plan.

Love never fails. 1 Corinthians 13:8

D.

[MusicLover123]

GodisLove, I actually found that on "accident."

I think, as Dandelion mentioned, that God does not need to "put us away" for a time. We are not toys that go put back on the shelf for a time, but real sons and daughters of God.

[GodIsLove]

Dandelion, i always love your posts. They are so simple and full of love...but the truth really is simpler than we make it.

[MusicLover123]

https://www.near-death.com/science/experts/melvin-morse.html

Here is one very mysterious but very cool aspect of those who had NDE's. The article is mainly about children's NDE's, but saw this mentioned in others too.

"He also found that they often could not wear watches as they would mysteriously break, and often had electrical conduction problems such as shorting out lap top computers and erasing credit cards."

Seems that those who have them have a very different view of time, and definitely not just a psychological change either.

I think also that those who claim that NDE's are just based on a person's religion have not done enough reading. About as big as a misconception as "Jesus spoke more about hell than about heaven."

There are a few hiccups here or there, but almost always they have a common theme. Regardless of age, or religion, or anything else. I mean, what kind of dream makes you view time differently, changes your immune system, and other changes?

Another quote
"Michael Sabom, an Atlanta cardiologist, found that 43% of cardiac arrest patients had NDEs. Patients with long complicated resuscitations were more likely to have NDEs. He also found that patients who had NDEs frequently could accurately describe their own resuscitation in detail. In contrast, control group of patients who had cardiac arrests but no NDEs could not describe their own resuscitation with any accuracy."

I don't agree with all that is in here. I find the description of angels as "trapped energy" pretty iffy, and "evidence" of reincarnation. But, I think when more and more evidence seems to be supporting this, not looking into it is probably the wrong move...

[marie glen]

I've always thought visitations from ppl beyond the grave to be angels, angel comfort.. If nde, etc, is true I wonder how it fits the ages outlined in Revelation.. Since past historical prophecy was more than spiritual metaphor, I figure the Revelation outline and vision to be accurate. Though told in symbols and metaphor. :laughing7:

:Chinscratch: I used to think perhaps Revelation is a sort of 'keys' to the rest of the Bible.. :Chinscratch:
    :Peace2:

[MusicLover123]

Well, I think Rev. 1:1 says the book is symbolic when it says these words were "signified."

Just thinking, wouldn't God sending an angel disguised as someone's loved one, be a lie? Lying as in, the person thinks it is someones loved one when it is really not?

:dunno2: