Wrestling with something

[MusicLover123]

Hi all, just been thinking on a couple things.

I am really wrestling with a couple ideas, before I would have opposed, but now strangely am opening up to:

1. Pre-existence
2. Heaven as more than just a state of mind, but an actual place. Not on a physical rock somewhere in space, but outside the universe
3. We see God as soon as we die

Especially with the last one, if indeed these are true, that it is because of Jesus resurrected from the dead, and not in spite of, that make them true. Thinking mainly on NDE's, but also comments made here over the years, and also that preaching to the dead topic lately. I also do want to stay Scriptural, and also looking at references to the "shadow of death" made me feel this way too.

Thoughts would be appreciated.

[jabcat]

I lean toward all those things.  However, not sure exactly what it all looks like.

[GodIsLove]

Hi all, just been thinking on a couple things.

I am really wrestling with a couple ideas, before I would have opposed, but now strangely am opening up to:

1. Pre-existence
2. Heaven as more than just a state of mind, but an actual place. Not on a physical rock somewhere in space, but outside the universe
3. We see God as soon as we die
.

Especially with the last one, if indeed these are true, that it is because of Jesus resurrected from the dead, and not in spite of, that make them true. Thinking mainly on NDE's, but also comments made here over the years, and also that preaching to the dead topic lately. I also do want to stay Scriptural, and also looking at references to the "shadow of death" made me feel this way too.

Thoughts would be appreciated.

I believe (recently came to believe) in the first and last statements, unsure of what you mean by the second.

And yes I believe Jesus is key.

I'll search for my scriptural support when I have a moment.

[MusicLover123]

A key verse on this:

1 Corinthians 15
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

But, now this is coming to mind, when Christ lowered Himself:

John 17
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Hebrews 2
7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Phillipians 2
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

If Pre-existance is indeed true, would that mean that we were lowered too?

And, these things assume consciousness in the Spirit. Maybe someone can help with that too.

[MusicLover123]

A key verse on this:

1 Corinthians 15
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

But, now this is coming to mind, when Christ lowered Himself:

John 17
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Hebrews 2
7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Phillipians 2
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

If Pre-existance is indeed true, would that mean that we were lowered too?

And, these things assume consciousness in the Spirit. Maybe someone can help with that too.

Hi GodisLove

I mean that, people like Ray teach that Heaven is only a state of mind. Meaning when we are in heaven, it means we are not in a physical place, but in a state of mind.

Recently I am starting to question that, if it is more than just a state of mind. That if it indeed is also a place, that it may be outside of this universe.

[Dandelion]

Who remembers the play called 'Our Town'?

They say that the universe is in the mind of God.

I believe that is where we are all going....to the mind of God.

As Paul wrote, "In Him we live and move and have our being."

And, I do believe we see God when we die. When we see Him, there
can be no more illusions or lies. The Truth will set us free.

D.

[GodIsLove]

Who remembers the play called 'Our Town'?

They say that the universe is in the mind of God.

I believe that is where we are all going....to the mind of God.

As Paul wrote, "In Him we live and move and have our being."

And, I do believe we see God when we die. When we see Him, there
can be no more illusions or lies. The Truth will set us free.

D.


D.

:dsunny:

[MusicLover123]

Another thing...

What would you call "sleeping" in Christ? Would dreaming have something to do with it?

[jugghead]

Hi all, just been thinking on a couple things.

I am really wrestling with a couple ideas, before I would have opposed, but now strangely am opening up to:

1. Pre-existence
2. Heaven as more than just a state of mind, but an actual place. Not on a physical rock somewhere in space, but outside the universe
3. We see God as soon as we die

Especially with the last one, if indeed these are true, that it is because of Jesus resurrected from the dead, and not in spite of, that make them true. Thinking mainly on NDE's, but also comments made here over the years, and also that preaching to the dead topic lately. I also do want to stay Scriptural, and also looking at references to the "shadow of death" made me feel this way too.

Thoughts would be appreciated.

For me ..... the "shadow" of death and the "fear" of death are the same thing

though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil

a valley is a low place between two high places, in which the two high places can be seen as where we came from (pre-existence) and where we are going (returning to God), this low place, physical existence, is where the shadow/fear of death exists and it exists in the minds and hearts of men.

Think of it this way, if someone says "I don't want to die", their mindset is connected to their physical body, they think that who they are "is" this physical body ..... not understanding that they are a spirit "in" a physical body and the spirit does not die, it is transferred from one state of existence to another state of existence, from the physical to the spiritual.

This physical body is not who we are, it is what we are "in", remove us (the spirit) from the physical body and the physical body dies

Life is in the spirit ..... and the spirit is in the body ..... remove the spirit from the body and the body dies because both the spirit and life are removed at the same time ..... the spirit and life are inseparable because "the Spirit is life" and "Life is the Spirit"

And I myself believe, we have never been separated from the Spirit ..... we only "think" we have been by our own way of thinking or by being convinced by someone else that we are or have been ..... and this is what I believe is the curse that was reversed, the curse of our own way of thinking ..... because now His Spirit testifies with our spirit, in other words, His Spirit convinces our spirit we have been given life through the work of Christ upon the cross.

Remove the shadow/fear of death from a person and death no longer has power over that person, in other words:

I will fear no evil even though I walk through the valley of the fear of death, this world is the valley in which the fear of death exists everywhere and is this not what we are to free the captives from?

And for me ..... a spirit that thinks it has not been given Life is "asleep" in Christ, for they have not been awakened to this truth

:2c:

[MusicLover123]

Thanks Rick.

What would the soul be then? I've heard on here before that they are they same thing. What about you?

On Strong's, if I recall correctly, it says something about wind/air for it.

[GodIsLove]

Jugghead, good post

[jugghead]

Thanks Rick.

What would the soul be then? I've heard on here before that they are they same thing. What about you?

On Strong's, if I recall correctly, it says something about wind/air for it.

I myself see them as both, but in a spiritual way of thinking we can see this example in the physical. What I mean by this is: when Adam became a living soul, it is speaking of "a breathing creature" (physical), but he was also "a spirit creature"

And with an understanding that this physical body needs air to stay alive, our spirit needs the breath of God to stay alive, but unlike the physical body, our spiritual body does not actually breath.

when our spirit opens its mouth, it is not to exhale air, it is to exhale words ..... and what I believe actually happens in a spiritual sense is that when our spirit opens its mouth to speak what it exhales is its soul, its soul in the form of words, which is what I also see in God the Father, with Him being a Spirit when He opens His mouth to speak, what is exhaled is His Soul and that Soul is Christ, for Christ is the Soul of the Father, the breathing creature, the "Word became flesh" the manifestation, the exact representation of the Father sent to this physical place.

But also with an understanding that the soul is also "heart" for Christ is the Heart of the Father and also that the Father is the Mind of Christ ..... the two working together as one to bring about the alignment of our own heart and mind with His.

at this point, this is what I believe and it is just my opinion, but it makes sense to me

[MusicLover123]

Alright, was thinking of checking for something, and it seems to be just like how I thought it would be.

Jer 1:5  Before I formed thee in the belly I knewH3045 thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. 

H3045
יָדַע
yâda‛
yaw-dah'
A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively instruction, designation, punishment, etc.): - acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, for a certainty, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to, let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot.
Total KJV occurrences: 946

A lot of baggage on this definition, but just look at the ones I have underlined. Is this "looking into the future" or seeing face to face?

CLV Jer 1:5 `Before I form you in the belly, I have known you; and before you come forth from the womb I have separated you, a prophet to nations I have made you.
ISV Jer 1:5  "I knew you before I formed you in the womb; I set you apart for me before you were born; I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.
YLT Jer 1:5  'Before I form thee in the belly, I have known thee; and before thou comest forth from the womb I have separated thee, a prophet to nations I have made thee.

Rotherham Jer 1:5  Before I formed thee at thy birth, I took knowledge of thee, And before thy nativity, I hallowed thee,—A prophet to the nations, I appointed thee.

Rotherham is the odd one out. But is it the better translation for this?

Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall returnH7725 unto God who gave it.

H7725
שׁוּב
shûb
shoob
A primitive root; to turn back (hence, away) transitively or intransitively, literally or figuratively (not necessarily with the idea of return to the starting point); generally to retreat; often adverbially again: -  ([break, build, circumcise, dig, do anything, do evil, feed, lay down, lie down, lodge, make, rejoice, send, take, weep]) X again, (cause to) answer (+ again), X in any case (wise), X at all, averse, bring (again, back, home again), call [to mind], carry again (back), cease, X certainly, come again (back) X consider, + continually, convert, deliver (again), + deny, draw back, fetch home again, X fro, get [oneself] (back) again, X give (again), go again (back, home), [go] out, hinder, let, [see] more, X needs, be past, X pay, pervert, pull in again, put (again, up again), recall, recompense, recover, refresh, relieve, render (again), X repent, requite, rescue, restore, retrieve, (cause to, make to) return, reverse, reward, + say nay, send back, set again, slide back, still, X surely, take back (off), (cause to, make to) turn (again, self again, away, back, back again, backward, from, off), withdraw.
Total KJV occurrences: 1058

This one has baggage too, but look at the underlined portions.

This, again, assumes consciousness in the Spirit. A couple verses with "groaning in the Spirit"

Joh 11:33  Jesus, therefore, when he saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her weeping, did groan in the spirit, and troubled himself, and he said...

Joh 11:38  Jesus, therefore, again groaning in himself, cometh to the tomb, and it was a cave, and a stone was lying upon it,

Joh 12:27  'Now hath my soul been troubled, and what? shall I say—Father, save me from this hour? —but because of this I came to this hour

Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 

Question. Is "groaning in yourself" the same as groaning in your Spirit? What about your soul being troubled? Is that the same thing, or something else?

And, what about the Resurrection? Is it going from unconsciousness to consciousness, or as I read from an older topic here, a "completion" where we are finally completed and perfected? If we are conscious before that, does that make it useless? At least in thinking of the former idea, and not the latter. Maybe some stay dead, and others are alive before it?

[jugghead]

Hi ML,

What I see in John 11:33-36 is probably different than what others may understand. What I see is a correlation of this event and day one in Genesis. What I mean by this is:

Joh 11:33  When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, 
Joh 11:34  And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see. 
Joh 11:35  Jesus wept. 
Joh 11:36  Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him! 

When Jesus groaned in the spirit, it is the same as "darkness was upon the face of the deep" ..... and with the words "and was troubled" is the same as "and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" and this is because the original meaning of the word "troubled" means to stir or agitate which is the moving or stirring of water in a physical sense, but in the spiritual sense it is the moving of the Spirit.

Now with verse 34 the question is asked "Where have ye laid him?", yes we can see this in the literal sense because of the event that had taken place, the death of Lazarus, but it is a death of his body, not his spirit. The original meaning of the word "laid" means to place and again, yes, this can be a question of where is the body of Lazarus at, but I see it as a question directed at the very heart of the people there .....

and what I mean by that is: it is a question of "where is he placed?" directed at the hearts and minds of the people there, meaning where is Lazarus placed in the hearts and minds of the people, which of course is that he has been placed among the dead in their hearts and minds, whereas we know the spirit of Lazarus was with God at that point, absent from the body present with the Lord.

Now with the answer that was given by the people (or person) "come and see", this is what caused Jesus to weep and that is because He knew that Lazarus was placed among the dead in their hearts and minds ..... rather than among the living (present with the Lord). They did not understand what God uses death for, to bring the spirit back to Him, for even the apostle Paul says "to die is gain". I see that the reason Jesus wept was for the people there, them not understanding the purpose of physical death.

and with what the Jews comment afterward was, it was their own misinterpretation of what the tears meant, they did not see that those tears were for them in their misunderstanding and not for Lazarus because Jesus knew where Lazarus was, and yes, Jesus loved Lazarus, that is a truth in what they said, but not understanding the whole picture is what they missed because Lazarus had received a great gift, that gift being what Paul refers to as "who shall deliver me from the body of this death" ..... Lazarus was delivered, but what I also see in this is: those tears were for Lazarus in that Jesus had to bring him back into that body of death to be removed once again, but knowing that Lazarus was given an understanding of what was to come.

and do we also understand that Lazarus now has a full understanding of the death of the physical body and that he himself no longer has a fear of that death? and that in itself was "Let there be light" in the heart and mind of Lazarus (day one) in which he can also understand what is from above and what is of below (day two) and also the appearing of the dry, a dry understanding (an understanding without the Spirit) and the seas (the wet) in the fullness of His Spirit (day three), in which day three is a resurrection .....

and Lazarus, I believe, could now fully comprehend the statement by Christ "I am the resurrection and the Life"

my  :2c:

[marie glen]

 :Chinscratch: ...I believe Jesus was pre-existent & the only straight out from God one..

I always end up thinking it's not what God has created, but is creating. I don't understand the whole outside of time thing. I just cannot think quite like that.. i do know if there is space or matter - unless totally unmoving..? - which I don't think is possible? Which brings us to the other question of heaven as a "place"? Does that mean there is time there? I guess that would be yes.

I do think heaven is a place.. I imagine the angels ministering (for good or evil) in the heavens.. and upon Earth (tho now? since war in heaven - Rev 12 - after Jesus' crucifixion, and between 70a.d. and the inquisitions, are no longer allowed access to the heavens). I think of the angels - spirit beings like 'winds' (metaphor, as they are actually 'less' than wind?)

I think of the angels as being created some time after the Son emerged.. God having decided to have a Son and create and sustain everything in and through Him.

So I don't believe in my own pre-existence (or others). Except perhaps as some sort of thought of God. I guess I figure God decided to, in a way, replicate Himself.. but with both He and the Son being always preeminent. And of vast more glory.

I'm a little divided about whether we see God as soon as we die. I think of it as possible, yet why gather up Elijah and Moses before death if that's the case? :dontknow:

I kind of see or imagine, the verse "with what body shall they rise?" as a literal rising as like rising in the morning from sleep.. and so with sort of body shall they rise? .. And the verse "first is the natural, then is the spiritual" ..the more spiritual body..

But! It will seem like right after death.. So one way or the other, really makes little difference! I have a very good friend who's son committed suicide last year. She believes he comes to her and others in dreams.. she believes he goes around helping others, who are still living. I would not abuse her if that notion whatsoever! Not with anyone else.

But that all sounds disorganized and kind of messy to me. Which of course could just be my own bias?/fussiness? Also, I guess I don't really expect to 'physically' or literally "see" God in a fashion much different than we see Him now! UNTIL that great day when He becomes all in all, has made new all things, and now in heavens and earth made new, He will now "tabernacle with mankind upon Earth". What sort of seeing will that be? :dontknow: His brilliance will make it so sun and moon are not needed for light.. :cloud9:

If 'souls'/psyche/vitality of believers live during death, if it's outside of time? How would that work? Are we there too? Since it is outside of time? That's completely too spacey for me..  I think I'm a brick and mortar kind of gal! :laughing7:

[MusicLover123]

I guess I don't really expect to 'physically' or literally "see" God in a fashion much different than we see Him now! Until that great day when He becomes all in all, has made new all things, and now in heavens and earth made new, He will now "tabernacle with mankind upon Earth". What sort of seeing will that be? :dontknow: His brilliance will make it so sun and moon are not needed for light.. :cloud9:

I mean, it does say that Jesus has seen the Father, so I imagine that we will too, once we are like Him. We are going to be brothers and sisters of Christ, and sons and daughters of God. How exciting is that going to be?

Rom 8:20 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation

Just thinking on this verse, if we did exist before, that would add another meaning to this verse.

Job 15:7  Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills? 

(speaking of wisdom)
Pro 8:22  The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 
Pro 8:23  I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 
Pro 8:24  When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 
Pro 8:25  Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 
Pro 8:26  While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 
Pro 8:27  When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 
Pro 8:28  When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 
Pro 8:29  When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 
Pro 8:30  Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 
Pro 8:31  Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. 

When is says I was brought forth, Does this also mean Christ? Remember, this is talking about before creation, as God needed wisdom to create it.

Also, talking about the sons of men, just thinking if that could have been us? Presuming that we did exist before too.

Job 38:6  Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 
Job 38:7  When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 

Speaking of shadow of death, Jugg, I found that in Strong's, tracing H6757 to it's roots, the meaning of those words in there also trace to Genesis and the Spirit hovering over the face of the waters.

[MusicLover123]

Oh, hey WhiteWings, remember you mentioned how some NDE's featured people "learning" with schools and stuff? That you would let me know where you found it?

Still waiting for that :)

[marie glen]

Amen Jesus was there when God created.. or at least that's how it reads to me.. But either way, it SHALL be all glorious! :cloud9: And a very BIG part of knowing that is understanding He is able & 100% good and all knowing.. to know the real Him and his true attributes.

P.S, I don't know if you misunderstood me, I meant I'm not sure we shall see him "until" after all is said and done, after the millennium, Judgment 'day' and He has become all in all.

...maybe we pre-existed, got filled up with ourselves, and needed some real serious humbling. :gsmile:

There's a theory too that this all happened before - the gap in Genesis 1, between 1 and 2? (Idk.)
But without God's intervention to save. So all were lost. So I thought would Gid be willing, and able to stand the loss of all those persons?

...but maybe it was us! .. but then that sounds like - I can't think of the word.. the belief ppl live many lives.
And.. the Bible says "it's given to men once to die" so that can't be it..
The Mormons, I think, believe in human (souls) pre-existence.
:Peace2:

[MusicLover123]

Here is another one that I am thinking of:

Ecclesiastes 9
10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave(Sheol), whither thou goest.

I'm thinking maybe it did change when Jesus was Ressurected. But, anyone else?

And, what about those who did not receive the promises?

Hebrews 11
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

I know there may be a couple others that could help out. Saw lastpost comment on this topic somewhat before, so maybe you have something to share.

[lastpost]

I wasn't going to say what was in my mind regarding seeing God, as it departs from the normal tone of this forum. Yet I think to myself, well if it's what I believe and if I sound a fool, what is that anyway, it really doesn't matter among friends!

My opinion is that God can be seen on passing into the spiritual life, but what is seen is only what the viewer is capable of seeing at that point.

If the viewer has sought to do their duty with honesty and sincerity then that viewer will be overjoyed and overcome by their awakening into that life, their awakening – stunned by the beauty of it all, and the truth dawns upon the viewer that it was all true, that faith has been justified up to the hilt, and that no mind had ever conceived such wonderment.

The viewer can feel God both within and without in a manner that is breath-taking, and that feeling is also seeing with one's very being – seeing and knowing God in a deep and profound spiritual manner - knowing God, seeing God.

The revelation of Himself to His child can only be according to the capacity of receiving that revelation – and God knows that the only thing worth having is the revelation of Himself. This revelation of Himself includes not only becoming more and more like Christ, but feeling Christ in as much of His fullness as a child of God is capable of.

As the viewer progresses into more and more of the purity of God, so the viewer has a greater and ever greater view of God. There are billions of aeons in front and God, the Supreme Lord of all, gives spiritual gifts on a continual basis without end as the child is ready to receive them, as God is a generous Giver.

While in these dense bodies of molecular flesh, it is not possible to fathom even slightly what a viewer will know of God in the future Aeon of aeons. Life by definition must live, and growth and development must occur in one who lives continuously.

I do believe that there are aeons of activity ahead, and that activity is Service-based, as Service is the earnest desire of the child of God. This activity merges into an even fuller active contemplation of the great One God in a manner impossible to understand while we walk by faith in blindness in the valley of shadows.

There is no dreamy, cloud-like future, but a very real future charged with a Divine Love with the power of a billion suns, so to speak – so it is not perceivable now, and indeed I do believe it is folly to attempt to see further than that.

But one should not worry about the future, God ensures that a child of His does not pass into a condition in which there is nothing familiar to the child. It would be folly to put a junior into a university, and so it is, I believe, with one's progressive development and ability to see the great and Almighty Divine Being Who made us all.

I apologise if this appears over-reached, but in a most basic essence, this is what I believe the future holds for everyone – Universal Restoration. It may be that something within can empathise in the smallest of ways - it may not be.

Peace

[MusicLover123]

Thanks Lastpost. I think I understand what you are saying.

Alright, I may have found one NDE close to what WW mentioned:

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/children.html

The second one would be it. I am ignoring most things on that site, and ignoring the reincarnation NDE's, as I find those unbiblical.

Haven't read the in depth ones on that page, but I find it really interesting how most are in a tunnel. Maybe the shadow of death/pit/abyss?

If there are schools there, it must be really high costing to get in!  :laughing7:

I also find Pet NDE's interesting, a new concept to me. I do expect animals to be resurrected, but them alive is fascinating for me too.

[marie glen]

Lastpost I loved that! :thumbsup:

[MusicLover123]

Continuing on what I mentioned before, apparently in many NDE's they are met by animals, including their old pets. Some apparently even talk!

Marc, remember how you mentioned you talked to your father through thought? Well, apparently that happens in these too. Either the transfer of thoughts, transfer of ideas, or the transfer of images.

Some include reincarnation aspects, which I still am weary of, especially as a Christian. Anyone have thoughts on that? Some of these seem to be really New Agey oriented, and especially how some portray God. One person mentioned how they said there are "higher forms" to attain. Not sure of that.

And, I guess another type of NDE is with multiple people, where all of them can see each other and the same thing, and talk to each other too.

They also seem to be highly remembered, even more so than regular memories.

[marie glen]

I think there's differences and much resembles new age because it's all taking place in their mind.. like a dream.. That's my opinion. It gives comfort to some I think who don't have the big picture yet from God's Word (i.e. mind, His revealed will/intent/design).

But the bible says some will rise to life and some will rise to the judgment (which we humans I think it was who tagged 'day' to "the Judgment, so we think of it as a Judgment 'Day'.. But the Bible talks about "the coming ages.

I guess there's enough mystery for me in God's Word (from Him) and concerning bible prophecy. Quite revealing, also exciting, and He's answered my questions.. :cloud9: :cloud9: :banana:

[marie glen]

There's a verse:
https://biblehub.com/kjv/jeremiah/23-28.htm - a list of different translations of the verse..

The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; and he who has my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the straw to the wheat? says Yahweh

Commentary on the verse: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/jeremiah/23-28.htm
   :Peace2: :girlheart: