What personally convincies you that the Bible is Gods revelation to man (above any other text)? its something Ive thought about on and off for awhile and I have my own reasons that I believe of course.
The point is not to "debate" but just to complile of list of reasons that you feel strongly about. could be fun?
For me, it is the fulfillment of prophecies that were spoken/written down beforehand. The incredible nature of some of the books - Genesis and Isaiah, for example. The illustration of Christ all throughout the Old Testament - books written long before the New Testament was written.
Also, the witness of the Spirit to me -- the fact that there was a time when I read the bible and could not understand it until the Holy Spirit opened it to me. There were many years for myself not being able to 'hear' what the scriptures were saying that was in anyway helpful to my personal condition. Those were hard years.
The complexity of the books -- the fact that the bible is a book that you can literally read and study for your entire life and never run out of things God can reveal to you. What other book is like that? That really amazes me.
Glad you asked.
Anne
For me scientific reasons, complexity and coherence.
One day you realize it was all written by one hand.
Great Question Ninja ,
The Bible is the only Book that has a million different interpretations
applied from every perspective
yet it is Truth
something that came to mind today was how the bible tells us so much about God and his ways and wills for our lives...yet also leaves a lot of blanks. This, to some, is an indication of it being false yet if it gave us everything in detail, to the point we didnt even have to think or come to something beyond us (the holy spirit) for discernment...then surely it would be a crock.
But it doesnt give us all the details, it gives us a rough sketch of God. That rough sketch is what makes it possible for relationship and revelation from God, which I would say are like the colors that slowly fill in the sketch as we progress in our walk and study.
Quote from: NinjaWizards777 on November 22, 2009, 03:38:04 AM
something that came to mind today was how the bible tells us so much about God and his ways and wills for our lives...yet also leaves a lot of blanks. This, to some, is an indication of it being false yet if it gave us everything in detail, to the point we didnt even have to think or come to something beyond us (the holy spirit) for discernment...then surely it would be a crock.
But it doesnt give us all the details, it gives us a rough sketch of God. That rough sketch is what makes it possible for relationship and revelation from God, which I would say are like the colors that slowly fill in the sketch as we progress in our walk and study.
Good thoughts , and agree , the lot of blanks are probably room to grow in truth and grace Bro :thumbsup:
a nephew told me today we are like "collecters" gathering everything in , every experience thats written and is done and take it in to be filtered and used when needed
the good and the bad to help us by the Spirit discern and learn from it
by the Increase of God's will that works in us all , none of us are so different than one another when we express and communicate and share what is given by the Lords hand
It was a good day . :happy3:
:cloud9: Probably one of the first really profound things for me was to discover all the names in there, written over thousands of years, of people, places, and things, had spiritual significance for us TODAY. Blessings.....
Quote from: Cardinal on November 22, 2009, 10:22:22 AM
:cloud9: Probably one of the first really profound things for me was to discover all the names in there, written over thousands of years, of people, places, and things, had spiritual significance for us TODAY. Blessings.....
amen! nothing like the good Lord giving the zeal to look into these things and the joy of finding out ! a hungry soul can be well fed with His Holy Spirit leading us to Truth / Him :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Molly on November 21, 2009, 02:47:56 PM
One day you realize it was all written by one hand.
Good post :thumbsup:
I don't believe the Bible is the only revelation of God to man...even the Bible itself says that God has revealed Himself to all people through nature
I've learnt the true nature of God through the example of His son's life, preaching and prophesy...this has guided me to aspire to being the better man which lurks inside me and everyone else, screaming to be set free
The Bible never ceases to amaze me. It is "confusion" when
read by the "letter" and causes "arguments" .........
but
when the 'Spirit' "reveals" it, it is an ever unfolding of
the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
It is revealed "as" a person uses the "light" that is given
and it is ever increasing to the light of the Perfect Day.
And the Perfect Man.
God has written it, however, so that one's growth it the Knowledge of
God is "stopped" til a person "walks" in the "light" he or she
has been given. Hence, all the arguments.
Quote from: Redlettervoice on November 23, 2009, 01:01:34 PM
The Bible never ceases to amaze me. It is "confusion" when
read by the "letter" and causes "arguments" .........
but
when the 'Spirit' "reveals" it, it is an ever unfolding of
the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
It is revealed "as" a person uses the "light" that is given
and it is ever increasing to the light of the Perfect Day.
And the Perfect Man.
God has written it, however, so that one's growth it the Knowledge of
God is "stopped" til a person "walks" in the "light" he or she
has been given. Hence, all the arguments.
:cloud9: That's exactly it........all of it comes with a price and the price is you have to walk what is revealed to you. Which is why He asked them if they could drink of the same cup.......they just didn't know yet that the answer to that question was going to be "no, not without Him". Blessings....
I was going to start a new topic but this one seems perfect for what I have on my mind today.
I am thinking we can take any book and make of it whatever we want to believe it to be. I am airing some thoughts here and don't want to sound angry or frustrated but I'm thinking the Bible is being used by God in ways we don't realize. We say it's a source of knowledge, both spiritual and physical and I agree but so are many books. We say it predicts things that come true and I agree but much is in the interpretation and again, we can interpret many writings to say what we want them to say.
It seems there is so much argument where the Bible is concerned. It, like Jesus is reported as saying about Himself, does cause much division.
Those people who really never even see a Bible or have one and never open it or rarely do so, and are good, God fearing people, are these people more blessed than those of us who search it 'daily' and only come up with arguments or things that cause contradictions? I mean it. I know so many really good Christians who know a fraction of the things discussed here at Tentmaker and they are content. They basically know 'Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so' and they have their favorite verses and they live their whole lives very content and productive.
What would life be like if the Bible did not even exist? What if we had just good writings of people who were moved by God. Again, what would history and life be like today if the Bible never existed in it's physical form?
cp
Quote from: claypot on November 24, 2009, 05:56:40 PM
I was going to start a new topic but this one seems perfect for what I have on my mind today.
I am thinking we can take any book and make of it whatever we want to believe it to be. I am airing some thoughts here and don't want to sound angry or frustrated but I'm thinking the Bible is being used by God in ways we don't realize. We say it's a source of knowledge, both spiritual and physical and I agree but so are many books. We say it predicts things that come true and I agree but much is in the interpretation and again, we can interpret many writings to say what we want them to say.
It seems there is so much argument where the Bible is concerned. It, like Jesus is reported as saying about Himself, does cause much division.
Those people who really never even see a Bible or have one and never open it or rarely do so, and are good, God fearing people, are these people more blessed than those of us who search it 'daily' and only come up with arguments or things that cause contradictions? I mean it. I know so many really good Christians who know a fraction of the things discussed here at Tentmaker and they are content. They basically know 'Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so' and they have their favorite verses and they live their whole lives very content and productive.
What would life be like if the Bible did not even exist? What if we had just good writings of people who were moved by God. Again, what would history and life be like today if the Bible never existed in it's physical form?
cp
Well said Bro C !!
I to find sometimes words cannot express what the Spirit is saying
and the carnal mind seems to destroy the works of God by altering it
for me the renewing of the mind / Holy Spirit moving
and Having the mind of Christ is the only way it seems to Glorify God
in ways that are pleasing in HIS SIGHT :cloud9: :HeartThrob:
Hey Rose, what do you think life would be like if we never had the Bible?
cp
Just wanted to also add these veses that seem to say the ONE MIND of Christ is the same glory for our heavenly Father that is
union shared by those in His Body / Jesus now
Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 15:7 ¶ Wherefore receive you one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: claypot on November 24, 2009, 06:11:57 PM
Hey Rose, what do you think life would be like if we never had the Bible?
cp
Hi Bro C ,
Well the written Word seems to fulfill some type of promise of God
maybe those divisions ?
I know that when the Law of God is written in our hearts that seems to make a permanent impact of change in us where as the written word can cause many to fall away ..
what do you think about it Clay ?
:HeartThrob:
Bro Clay ,
I was just thinking how the carnal mind uses words as weapons of warring to the flesh causing the powers and principalities in high places to create divisions siding with the left or right hand of power
the left can mean making a name for yourself where as the Right is the righteous work of God though His Son Jesus Christ , just :2c:
:HeartThrob: enyoying this conversation , helping clear some things up :icon_flower:
I'm not sure of course but I look at this forum and see the zillions of words and debates over every word and punctuation mark of the Bible and then I multiply this by a zillion other sites and ways the Bible is being used and debated and I wonder what God had in mind when creating such a work (I do still think this book is Divine in some fashion).
It just doesn't seem that anyone will ever be able to say 'Aha, now I got it figured out!'. Does God really expect us to figure the Bible out? I mean if it is our path to life and peace and joy then I wonder why it causes so much turmoil, grief and confusion. I mean I know about the carnal and spiritual mindsets but do we really need a physical Bible if it indeed is a spiritual book?
cp
:cloud9: The reason for the turmoil is because we are all at various stages of the Word becoming LIFE in us. And it both conceals and reveals truth, with the Spirit being the only one who can unlock it's concealed truth. A lot of the people who use it only have the water baptism and not the Spirit baptism, so without the Key, it's a sealed book. My :2c: Blessings....
Quote from: claypot on November 24, 2009, 06:28:46 PM
I'm not sure of course but I look at this forum and see the zillions of words and debates over every word and punctuation mark of the Bible and then I multiply this by a zillion other sites and ways the Bible is being used and debated and I wonder what God had in mind when creating such a work (I do still think this book is Divine in some fashion).
It just doesn't seem that anyone will ever be able to say 'Aha, now I got it figured out!'. Does God really expect us to figure the Bible out? I mean if it is our path to life and peace and joy then I wonder why it causes so much turmoil, grief and confusion. I mean I know about the carnal and spiritual mindsets but do we really need a physical Bible if it indeed is a spiritual book?
cp
Hi Bro Clay , Paul was told by the Holy Spirit to write it down in a book so was John the revelater ... these men were given instruction and they obeyed what the Spirit was saying
this why I do believe Jesus said all manner of sin will be forgive except blaspheming the Holy Spirit
to speak against the Work of God :mblush:
and the outer court is not measured because of all the blasphemies dont you think thats true ?
It maybe needful and very necessary bro ... God looks on the heart and also writes upon the heart ....
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;
Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.
He takes away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. the book / body must be eaten to have Life in you , but it is the Spirit that is working within us all as well
the bead and the wine of the new covenant witness :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Cardinal on November 24, 2009, 06:47:57 PM
:cloud9: The reason for the turmoil is because we are all at various stages of the Word becoming LIFE in us. And it both conceals and reveals truth, with the Spirit being the only one who can unlock it's concealed truth. A lot of the people who use it only have the water baptism and not the Spirit baptism, so without the Key, it's a sealed book. My :2c: Blessings....
Amen Sis , the opening of the seals , that we might understand and SEE HIM / The Christ Lamb of God . :HeartThrob:
OK, Card and Rose and ??????, how do you think things would be different if we did not have the Bible? Would we be more sane and united or less?
I know I am asking for what can't be known but I think what I am asking is worth some thought. I think God is doing something more here than expecting us to figure out what the Bible is saying.
It conceals and reveals, it is a spiritual book and so on but what about all those who just read it like a story book or an ordinary book and live their lives just fine? I frankly know of no other people who see things in the Bible like many of us do here on this forum. Most of my friends see 'Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so' and that is good enough for them, oh of course they also see all the physical applications which just blesses their socks off.
cp
Hi CP,
I can't imagine religion without a Bible if God is so distant.
God is always seen as a father. For me a father isn't someone who, ahum, made you and ever loves very much.
It's above all the person that you know. I mean I'm 45 now and next week I learn I was adopted then I have zero interest in who my natural parents are. The ones I know are 100% my parents.
Father never shows up. And without a book how would I know who He is. If He is still alive. What he is like.
Would it matter if there was no Bible.
No Christianity IMO.
We would have another religion.
If there was no religion at all the world would be in less pain. But the more realistic part of me knows "we" would have found an alternative for religious wars/conflicts...
So to summarize. The only difference would be no Christians.
Quote from: claypot on November 24, 2009, 09:52:37 PM
OK, Card and Rose and ??????, how do you think things would be different if we did not have the Bible? Would we be more sane and united or less?
I know I am asking for what can't be known but I think what I am asking is worth some thought. I think God is doing something more here than expecting us to figure out what the Bible is saying.
It conceals and reveals, it is a spiritual book and so on but what about all those who just read it like a story book or an ordinary book and live their lives just fine? I frankly know of no other people who see things in the Bible like many of us do here on this forum. Most of my friends see 'Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so' and that is good enough for them, oh of course they also see all the physical applications which just blesses their socks off.
cp
Hi Bro C
without the word/ a book to many folks in the past that phase was called the dark ages
so though there is more Light / knowledge , like in the book of Daniel
our names are also written in the book ...
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Dan 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. Dan 12:3 And they that
be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel,
shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Jesus mentions also in Matt 24 , the gospel preached
its bigger now than ever , but the good is coming through all the bad :thumbsup: because the Lord will be victorious
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: claypot on November 24, 2009, 05:56:40 PM
I was going to start a new topic but this one seems perfect for what I have on my mind today.
I am thinking we can take any book and make of it whatever we want to believe it to be. I am airing some thoughts here and don't want to sound angry or frustrated but I'm thinking the Bible is being used by God in ways we don't realize. We say it's a source of knowledge, both spiritual and physical and I agree but so are many books. We say it predicts things that come true and I agree but much is in the interpretation and again, we can interpret many writings to say what we want them to say.
It seems there is so much argument where the Bible is concerned. It, like Jesus is reported as saying about Himself, does cause much division.
Those people who really never even see a Bible or have one and never open it or rarely do so, and are good, God fearing people, are these people more blessed than those of us who search it 'daily' and only come up with arguments or things that cause contradictions? I mean it. I know so many really good Christians who know a fraction of the things discussed here at Tentmaker and they are content. They basically know 'Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so' and they have their favorite verses and they live their whole lives very content and productive.
What would life be like if the Bible did not even exist? What if we had just good writings of people who were moved by God. Again, what would history and life be like today if the Bible never existed in it's physical form?
cp
I sincerely doubt I could say what I'd like to say in response without incurring several disapproving looks, so I'll just say that I understand exactly where you're coming from here, and that I sympathize with the thoughts you present.
Be adventurous Gab and say away! Too much caution makes for dull reading!
I'm thinking the Bible is needed but I'm wondering if it is suppose to be something we 'crucify' to get at what it is meant for. I am not being judgmental here. Maybe it is suppose to be crucified but I don't want to be the one taking part in it or do I? Sheesh, I raise more questions for myself as I write..................When will my madness end! :mshock:
Are we crucifying the Word with our never ending analyzing? I know we are suppose to study and meditate on it but I wonder...................
cp
Quote from: claypot on November 25, 2009, 04:01:49 PMI know we are suppose to study and meditate on it but I wonder...................
But we are also said to believe like a child. Childs don't study.
We are also told not count prayer like the pagans. I know prayers are not study but still.....dunno how to say it....don't talk but act. Don't talk about helping those in need but go outside to do so.
QuoteToo much caution makes for dull reading!
LOL, now its known what you think of some replies ha ha ..... :icon_jokercolor: just kiddin Bro C
You know , been thinkin about this ''type of '' free and random reasoning , and believe it is dangerous over thinking ......
an example here ...
and I am so guilty of this ''type of reasoning crossing the mind '' please see if you know what im saying here ...
we all have to die correct
now how we die has everything to do with the ''reasoning mind ''
here is the randomness of dying reasoning .. and where does the subtle yet evil reasoning come in to play ?
well could die in a car wreck going any where at any time :dontknow:
well they have to die anyway , so why not help them out a bit :msealed:
they are lying there in misery(diseased) so God take them home with you :mshock:
or spare them Lord so they can glorify you ..... :msealed:
and the list can go on and on and on
Now the WORD OF GOD and Spirit of God can do anyof these they are Life and death
the Word of God has always been a spoken Word way before pages and ink and a printer came along ..lol
So the mind/ heart is like a sponge and container ready to process the information in randomess depending on what type of reasoning is used for good or evil and what Spirit is influencing the mind ,,,,,,,, :2c:
just some things to consider :HeartThrob:
reasoning
rea⋅son⋅ing –noun 1. the act or process of a person who reasons.
2. the process of forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences from facts or premises.
3. the reasons, arguments, proofs, etc., resulting from this process.
Origin:
1325–75; ME resoninge. See reason, -ing 2
Related forms:
rea⋅son⋅ing⋅ly, adverb
rea⋅son /ˈrizən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ree-zuhn] Show IPA
–noun 1.
a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc.: the reason for declaring war.
2.
a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action.
3. the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences.
4. sound judgment; good sense.
5. normal or sound powers of mind; sanity.
6. Logic. a premise of an argument.
7. Philosophy. a. the faculty or power of acquiring intellectual knowledge, either by direct understanding of first principles or by argument.
b. the power of intelligent and dispassionate thought, or of conduct influenced by such thought.
c. Kantianism. the faculty by which the ideas of pure reason are created.
–verb (used without object) 8. to think or argue in a logical manner.
9. to form conclusions, judgments, or inferences from facts or premises.
10. to urge reasons which should determine belief or action.
–verb (used with object) 11. to think through logically, as a problem (often fol. by out).
12. to conclude or infer.
13. to convince, persuade, etc., by reasoning.
14. to support with reasons.
—Idioms15. bring (someone) to reason, to induce a change of opinion in (someone) through presentation of arguments; convince: The mother tried to bring her rebellious daughter to reason.
16. by reason of, on account of; because of: He was consulted about the problem by reason of his long experience.
17. in or within reason, in accord with reason; justifiable; proper: She tried to keep her demands in reason.
18. stand to reason, to be clear, obvious, or logical: With such an upbringing it stands to reason that the child will be spoiled.
19. with reason, with justification; properly: The government is concerned about the latest crisis, and with reason.
Origin:
1175–1225; ME resoun, reisun (n.) < OF reisun, reson < L ratiōn- (s. of ratiō) ratio
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 25, 2009, 04:24:00 PM
Quote from: claypot on November 25, 2009, 04:01:49 PMI know we are suppose to study and meditate on it but I wonder...................
But we are also said to believe like a child. Childs don't study.
We are also told not count prayer like the pagans. I know prayers are not study but still.....dunno how to say it....don't talk but act. Don't talk about helping those in need but go outside to do so.
Been thinking about how sometimes words can not express
the dare i say feelings within us stirring at different times and points of our lives
I do know Jesus said be a hearer and more so DOER of the Word
but we wait for that type of power to do most of ourlives not knowing if it is the right thing to do!!!
I agree kids learn more from experience than hearing that is the school of ''hard knocks '' still a teacher none the less :icon_flower:
:HeartThrob:
I'm hearing ya, Rose and WW. I'm just noticing how some of my friends who take the things of God so simply, have such a contented good relationship with God. I am not jealous, just being observant and honest.
Are we crucifying Jesus (the Word) over and over by continuing to debate and reason out the Bible?
I am seeing the crucifixion in a new light here. The crucifixion of Jesus was done under God's guiding hand, correct? It seems this is another way of God simply saying, 'Jacob I love, Esau I hate.'
God loves the simplicity of the spirtitual and hates anything (carnality/over-analysis) that gets in the way.
I am not dissecting Scripture here, just commenting on what I see.
cp
Quote from: claypot on November 25, 2009, 05:38:26 PM
I'm hearing ya, Rose and WW. I'm just noticing how some of my friends who take the things of God so simply, have such a contented good relationship with God. I am not jealous, just being observant and honest.
Are we crucifying Jesus (the Word) over and over by continuing to debate and reason out the Bible?
I am seeing the crucifixion in a new light here. The crucifixion of Jesus was done under God's guiding hand, correct? It seems this is another way of God simply saying, 'Jacob I love, Esau I hate.'
God loves the simplicity of the spirtitual and hates anything (carnality/over-analysis) that gets in the way.
I am not dissecting Scripture here, just commenting on what I see.
cp
Well said bro C !!
understand you completly ..
how our hands have handled'' the Word of Life ''
at the '' hands of sinful men '' crucify Christ :mblush:
Have thought the same things bro .. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: rosered on November 25, 2009, 05:49:22 PMGod loves the simplicity of the spirtitual and hates anything (carnality/over-analysis) that gets in the way.
Yes but....
It's like marriage with someone you only know the name of.
Believe in Father. Believe in Son. Believe in HS. Fine. But who are they? What do they do? What do they hate? What do they love? What do they want us to do? Etc.
How can I find the answers to those questions? Isn't the only place in the Bible? By study. Ofcouse it can be said read it literally and that's it. But the, why did God put in all those hidden layers and those little 'weird' things? Aren't they there to be found? But they won't be found by just looking at the cover of the Bible....
Weymouth New Testament
"Blessed are you, Simon Bar-jonah," said Jesus; "for mere human nature has not revealed this to you, but my Father in Heaven. Matthew 16:17
Weymouth New Testament
For us, however, God has drawn aside the veil through the teaching of the Spirit; for the Spirit searches everything, including the depths of the divine nature. 1 Corinthians 2:10
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 25, 2009, 06:32:50 PM
Quote from: rosered on November 25, 2009, 05:49:22 PMGod loves the simplicity of the spirtitual and hates anything (carnality/over-analysis) that gets in the way.
Yes but....
It's like marriage with someone you only know the name of.
Believe in Father. Believe in Son. Believe in HS. Fine. But who are they? What do they do? What do they hate? What do they love? What do they want us to do? Etc.
How can I find the answers to those questions? Isn't the only place in the Bible? By study. Ofcouse it can be said read it literally and that's it. But the, why did God put in all those hidden layers and those little 'weird' things? Aren't they there to be found? But they won't be found by just looking at the cover of the Bible....
True Bro T aka WW , a marriage (union) is like taking the good with the bad
, its not all good nor all bad
reasoning together and both loving peace really helps lol... :laughing7:
How many arranged marriages are in name only and Not marry for Love ?
It all depends on how both come together as One , most out of some need that is lacking alone . All relationships have to take and give to work out :thumbsup:
Like what you said about the layers of hidden truth to be searched out and found in the WORD / BIBLE
it is true :icon_flower:
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 25, 2009, 06:42:48 PM
Weymouth New Testament
"Blessed are you, Simon Bar-jonah," said Jesus; "for mere human nature has not revealed this to you, but my Father in Heaven. Matthew 16:17
Weymouth New Testament
For us, however, God has drawn aside the veil through the teaching of the Spirit; for the Spirit searches everything, including the depths of the divine nature. 1 Corinthians 2:10
Well said Bro Dave
and to the point , a wonderful and simple truth
the Holy Spirit given by the grace of Gods gift does teach and correct ua all , but until that time comes we struggle with Who is God and Jesus Christ to us ..
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 25, 2009, 06:32:50 PM
Yes but....
It's like marriage with someone you only know the name of.
Believe in Father. Believe in Son. Believe in HS. Fine. But who are they? What do they do? What do they hate? What do they love? What do they want us to do? Etc.
How can I find the answers to those questions? Isn't the only place in the Bible? By study. Ofcouse it can be said read it literally and that's it. But the, why did God put in all those hidden layers and those little 'weird' things? Aren't they there to be found? But they won't be found by just looking at the cover of the Bible....
I never read a book about my wife yet I met her, wooed her, courted her, married her and she, me. Didn't need a book.
I really don't think the Bible helps us know God in the way we think it does. I'm thinkin it's purpose is something else. Yes, I see the Bible as a source of comfort, as are many written works, when read in simplicity. I see the Bible as a source of wars and factions and misery and confusion in a large degree. It makes for great discussions and debates and thus, forums like this one, but I don't think all this was God's purpose in His use of physical words.
WW, how you find answers to your questions is to live life to it's fullest. Take chances, dance like a dervish, sing like a bird. Read, talk, do, relax, enjoy.............
There could be 'hidden layers' in the writings on a ketchup bottle if one wanted to believe.
cp
Quote from: claypot on November 25, 2009, 06:58:34 PM
I never read a book about my wife
And why exactly you didn't need to read a book about your wife CP?
Quote from: claypotyet I met her, wooed her, courted her, married her and she, me.
That's why you
Quote from: claypotDidn't need a book
:cloud9: One of the reasons we read the book is to learn His nature, so He can begin to speak to us personally, and we can learn to discern just who it is speaking. The enemy of our souls has spoken to us from the beginning; now it's God's turn. My :2c: Blessings....
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 25, 2009, 07:04:17 PM
Quote from: claypot on November 25, 2009, 06:58:34 PM
I never read a book about my wife
And why exactly you didn't need to read a book about your wife CP?
Quote from: claypotyet I met her, wooed her, courted her, married her and she, me.
That's why you
Quote from: claypotDidn't need a book
I didn't need a book because our 'spirits' connected I believe.
Good words by all and I mean it. I'm just working out some things on this end. Thanks all.
cp
Quote from: claypot on November 25, 2009, 07:48:27 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 25, 2009, 07:04:17 PM
Quote from: claypot on November 25, 2009, 06:58:34 PM
I never read a book about my wife
And why exactly you didn't need to read a book about your wife CP?
Quote from: claypotyet I met her, wooed her, courted her, married her and she, me.
That's why you
Quote from: claypotDidn't need a book
I didn't need a book because our 'spirits' connected I believe.
And that's the best way to figure out if it's the right partner. But God doesn't sit down with me to have a nice informal chat. He's like a penpal. He wrote a message. And that's all I have.
Stay connected CP :thumbsup:
WW,
Gotcha my friend.
But let me add that I do think God sits down with us to have informal chats more than we may realize. We have more than we think, I think.
cp
I knew someone was going to say that :laughing7:
But do you notice God sits down with you?
If yes would you if you had never heard of Him? (no Bible)
Maybe God sits down with me more than with everyone that ever lived.
But if I'm to stupid to notice, what's the use?
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 25, 2009, 08:49:25 PM
I knew someone was going to say that :laughing7:
But do you notice God sits down with you?
If yes would you if you had never heard of Him? (no Bible)
Maybe God sits down with me more than with everyone that ever lived.
But if I'm to stupid to notice, what's the use?
God has ways other than the Bible of making Himself 'noticable' I believe.
I have observed a few things concerning the Bible and people. First, some don't even really even read it yet I think have solid relationships that can't be denied. Some are just illiterate (I say this respectfully), others are just not readers. Secondly, those who do read it, read it erroniously (sp?). I'm not saying who reads in error but I suppose it's all of us at some points but some really get off base where, if the Bible didn't exist that would not be a problem. Sure I suppose not having the Bible would create other problems but again, I am just working out a few things and you and the others are sure helping. I thank you, WW, and Rose and all here who are so patient with me and my weird thoughts.
You are not too stupid to notice, you just see it as something else maybe?
Do I notice when God sits down with me, you ask?
Sheesh, now I am the one who feels stupid! I think God talks to me all the time via my kids (11 of them) and my wife (seems like 11 of her sometimes!) He talks to me via the wind and friends. I know this sounds poetic or whatever but how else does God sit down and talk with us if not like this?
If the Bible never existed I think I would have 'heard' of God some other way. Matter of fact I did hear about God first, not from the Bible, but from a person. I don't know where that person heard about God first but I suppose there are people who find out about God first from the Bible, but some hear of God in all sorts of ways other than the Bible.
Nature is a very good source.
Look at all those who hear about God from the Bible and then spend most their lives trying to decipher what they heard to the point of wondering if what they heard was real or not.
cp
Quote from: claypot on November 25, 2009, 11:26:35 PMYou are not too stupid to notice, you just see it as something else maybe?
Good point. What if I think it's the tree god talking to me, and I start worshipping oak trees?
About something else. Several people said to me, either in public, PM or email, that some things I wrote were from the HS.
Yesterday I had such an email. A forum member told me we have two minds. Our own and that of the HS Or something to that effect. It was about remembering a verse that fitted in the conversation we had.
I always assume it's because I simply are able to remember things. Others say it also could be the HS inserting a thought 'when needed'.
I assume that sorta is "God sitting with me"
But I can vow that I truely don't know if I can distinguish between my memory and HS giving me a thought.
That said I think I was never 'visited' so there is nothing to distingish.
To come back at no Bible. I thought about it and it seems so impossible to me. The OT is around for a very long time.
Some did study it daily. And still Jesus was very displeased with them.
Christians without an Bible=teaching are just pagans.
Pagans also hear inspired voices. Or at least they think so. And even if they hear voices it are the wrong ones...
Plus Jesus didn't spend 3 years of His life teaching and sorta "writing" NT because Father as a zillion other ways to reach us. Yes He has. But the existance of OT and NT tells me He choose that not the way the game is played??? :2c:
Note: not claiming the HS can't reveal Himself. But I think that's reserved for the elect. Again :2c:
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 26, 2009, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: claypot on November 25, 2009, 11:26:35 PMYou are not too stupid to notice, you just see it as something else maybe?
Good point. What if I think it's the tree god talking to me, and I start worshipping oak trees?
:cloud9: ROFLOL.......then your trusty friends at Tentmaker (chainsaws in back pockets) would come to your rescue and er, DELIVER "firewood". :grin:
Seriously though, cp. In the beginning of things, there was no written Word. Men were likely closer to the remembrances of Adam who walked in the cool (means His breath) of the day with God. But the result was still the same by the time 8 generations rolled thru they only imagined evil in their hearts continually, and He was ready to bring in a flood to kill off all flesh, which He did.
So what is written is a like a map to follow in the dark; back to where we were before the fall, and the Spirit is our flashlight so we don't trip over any rocks, fall off a cliff, or drown.
Any woman will tell you, it's a "man thing" that men have to be talked into taking a map on a trip, because they are convinced they know the way to Phoenix from Buffalo, and "Really, honey........going thru Florida was all part of the plan. I swear!" :laughing7: Blessings....
Quote from: NinjaWizards777 on November 21, 2009, 04:03:36 AM
What personally convincies you that the Bible is Gods revelation to man (above any other text)? its something Ive thought about on and off for awhile and I have my own reasons that I believe of course.
The point is not to "debate" but just to complile of list of reasons that you feel strongly about. could be fun?
Great question, not sure if it's been said.
First, for me, my faith is a gift from God and not from my own mind and mental devices. The providence of God regarding my faith cannot be ignored.
Having said that, one thing that comes to mind is how the mystery of Christ was revealed through the prophets. God was quite displeased with his chosen many times and the prophets were stoned. Yet their writings remained preserved. Not to mention the fact that it was revealed later that the Messiah was testified in a mystery throughout the writings, unbeknownst to the generation that put him to death, who were looking for the Messiah they killed. Pretty amazing.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 26, 2009, 12:02:44 AM
What if I think it's the tree god talking to me, and I start worshipping oak trees?
To come back at no Bible. I thought about it and it seems so impossible to me. The OT is around for a very long time.
Some did study it daily. And still Jesus was very displeased with them.
Christians without an Bible=teaching are just pagans.
Pagans also hear inspired voices. Or at least they think so. And even if they hear voices it are the wrong ones...
Plus Jesus didn't spend 3 years of His life teaching and sorta "writing" NT because Father as a zillion other ways to reach us. Yes He has. But the existance of OT and NT tells me He choose that not the way the game is played??? :2c:
Note: not claiming the HS can't reveal Himself. But I think that's reserved for the elect. Again :2c:
I almost worship oak trees. I have cut almost 15 cords of them this year. I am tired of oak trees but they make good fire wood so don't belittle oak trees. Just funnin with ya.
Interesting though how God hides as much as He reveals. The Bible was in the hands of those who couldn't see the forest because of the trees and they killed Jesus. The Bible was in the hands of the Inquistion folks and they lived their lives by it, killing anyone who disagreed with them, according to the Bible as they saw it. Many evils done are done with the blessings of the Bible. We on this forum argue ad infinitum about it. I just wonder who the pagans really are.
Good words though, WW, thanks.
Quote from: Cardinal on November 26, 2009, 01:40:15 AM
So what is written is a like a map to follow in the dark; back to where we were before the fall, and the Spirit is our flashlight so we don't trip over any rocks, fall off a cliff, or drown.
I hear ya Card. I wonder though, is this a map of our own making. I mean we have some words delivered to us from God and now we take these words and have to decipher them. We decipher them in a lot of ways. Maybe it is not the words that I am having trouble with, it's the interpretation process.
I do agree it is all God. His words need to be translated in our beings by Him (HS). It's the only way it can be.
Thanks Card for all your input.
cp
Quote from: claypot on November 25, 2009, 04:01:49 PM
Be adventurous Gab and say away! Too much caution makes for dull reading!
Well, let's just say that I think that, while those who read the Bible for guidance before doing anything at all in life certainly have a level of devoutness that is to be admired, I can't help but feel that they've missed something somewhere along the way. As has been noted before, the word of God is Jesus, not the Bible. The Holy Spirit gives us love and guides us in the right direction, but where does the Holy Spirit reside? Within our hearts, not within the pages of a book. I don't mean to discount the value of the Bible, but I do not believe that it was ever intended to be a ball and chain around our ankles that we must always consult compulsively before even going to the supermarket. It can be mistranslated, misquoted, misunderstood, and misused, but the love in our hearts cannot.
Quote from: Gab on November 25, 2009, 03:21:14 AM
Quote from: claypot on November 24, 2009, 05:56:40 PM
I was going to start a new topic but this one seems perfect for what I have on my mind today.
I am thinking we can take any book and make of it whatever we want to believe it to be. I am airing some thoughts here and don't want to sound angry or frustrated but I'm thinking the Bible is being used by God in ways we don't realize. We say it's a source of knowledge, both spiritual and physical and I agree but so are many books. We say it predicts things that come true and I agree but much is in the interpretation and again, we can interpret many writings to say what we want them to say.
It seems there is so much argument where the Bible is concerned. It, like Jesus is reported as saying about Himself, does cause much division.
Those people who really never even see a Bible or have one and never open it or rarely do so, and are good, God fearing people, are these people more blessed than those of us who search it 'daily' and only come up with arguments or things that cause contradictions? I mean it. I know so many really good Christians who know a fraction of the things discussed here at Tentmaker and they are content. They basically know 'Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so' and they have their favorite verses and they live their whole lives very content and productive.
What would life be like if the Bible did not even exist? What if we had just good writings of people who were moved by God. Again, what would history and life be like today if the Bible never existed in it's physical form?
cp
I sincerely doubt I could say what I'd like to say in response without incurring several disapproving looks, so I'll just say that I understand exactly where you're coming from here, and that I sympathize with the thoughts you present.
ditto.
The message God is showing us is so simple a child could understand...
It's MANKIND that makes it difficult and ridiculous.
I was talking to someone the other day about this.
It's like there is a group of people STARVING... Starving to DEATH....
and you have a group of people who can help them but they INSIST on making very complicated, exotic dishes.
They are in the stinking kitchen for HOURS trying to DECIPHER these ridiculously complicated, convoluted recipes...
and they get to debating "Well I think it says this..." "Well God told me it says this..."
Meanwhile... people outside are droppin' like flies.
I say, Give me a dang loaf of BREAD, and let me just start slicing it up and handing it to these people.
IT'S SIMPLE.
Life is too short.
Too many people are starving.
Once you get the message of Christ...
Just go out there and start HANDING OUT SLICES OF BREAD!!! :HeartThrob:
It does NOT need to be complicated.
It really shouldn't be.
Because it's all busywork and maybe even some pride thrown in.
Just slice up the bread...
This has been on my mind a lot lately.
I don't want to be one in the kitchen deciphering the recipe.
I just want to take my pieces of bread (God's love) and just try to hand it out to as many starving people as I can.
God help me and continue to move my heart, and my feet and my hands.
CP... I think God speaks to us in different ways. Many different ways. But the bible does have interlaced between the pages a beautiful plan but... well, I'll stick to what Gab said and not get into that any further.I think the bible is special. But obviously it is not NEEDED because so many other people have never read it and God's got them in His plan. None will be lost. But once you have it, you do need it. God talks us to through it. Like I said, it's hard to say it's "necessary" but it is and it isn't. Well, nothing is impossible with God.
sorry for the "rant" if you want to call it that.
I think I'm just slowly getting more and more....just tired.
of talking.
and hearing others talk about the same ol thing over and over.
Can't we just go out there and start handing out bread?
We've got the bread. We SEE it. Why must we keep examining it under microscopes and discussing every molecule of it?
We know it's bread, man!!
oh well.
peace.
Quote from: sparrow on November 26, 2009, 05:39:50 AM
Quote from: Gab on November 25, 2009, 03:21:14 AM
Quote from: claypot on November 24, 2009, 05:56:40 PM
I was going to start a new topic but this one seems perfect for what I have on my mind today.
I am thinking we can take any book and make of it whatever we want to believe it to be. I am airing some thoughts here and don't want to sound angry or frustrated but I'm thinking the Bible is being used by God in ways we don't realize. We say it's a source of knowledge, both spiritual and physical and I agree but so are many books. We say it predicts things that come true and I agree but much is in the interpretation and again, we can interpret many writings to say what we want them to say.
It seems there is so much argument where the Bible is concerned. It, like Jesus is reported as saying about Himself, does cause much division.
Those people who really never even see a Bible or have one and never open it or rarely do so, and are good, God fearing people, are these people more blessed than those of us who search it 'daily' and only come up with arguments or things that cause contradictions? I mean it. I know so many really good Christians who know a fraction of the things discussed here at Tentmaker and they are content. They basically know 'Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so' and they have their favorite verses and they live their whole lives very content and productive.
What would life be like if the Bible did not even exist? What if we had just good writings of people who were moved by God. Again, what would history and life be like today if the Bible never existed in it's physical form?
cp
I sincerely doubt I could say what I'd like to say in response without incurring several disapproving looks, so I'll just say that I understand exactly where you're coming from here, and that I sympathize with the thoughts you present.
ditto.
The message God is showing us is so simple a child could understand...
It's MANKIND that makes it difficult and ridiculous.
I was talking to someone the other day about this.
It's like there is a group of people STARVING... Starving to DEATH....
and you have a group of people who can help them but they INSIST on making very complicated, exotic dishes.
They are in the stinking kitchen for HOURS trying to DECIPHER these ridiculously complicated, convoluted recipes...
and they get to debating "Well I think it says this..." "Well God told me it says this..."
Meanwhile... people outside are droppin' like flies.
I say, Give me a dang loaf of BREAD, and let me just start slicing it up and handing it to these people.
IT'S SIMPLE.
Life is too short.
Too many people are starving.
Once you get the message of Christ...
Just go out there and start HANDING OUT SLICES OF BREAD!!! :HeartThrob:
It does NOT need to be complicated.
It really shouldn't be.
Because it's all busywork and maybe even some pride thrown in.
Just slice up the bread...
This has been on my mind a lot lately.
I don't want to be one in the kitchen deciphering the recipe.
I just want to take my pieces of bread (God's love) and just try to hand it out to as many starving people as I can.
God help me and continue to move my heart, and my feet and my hands.
CP... I think God speaks to us in different ways. Many different ways. But the bible does have interlaced between the pages a beautiful plan but... well, I'll stick to what Gab said and not get into that any further.I think the bible is special. But obviously it is not NEEDED because so many other people have never read it and God's got them in His plan. None will be lost. But once you have it, you do need it. God talks us to through it. Like I said, it's hard to say it's "necessary" but it is and it isn't. Well, nothing is impossible with God.
sorry for the "rant" if you want to call it that.
I think I'm just slowly getting more and more....just tired.
of talking.
and hearing others talk about the same ol thing over and over.
Can't we just go out there and start handing out bread?
We've got the bread. We SEE it. Why must we keep examining it under microscopes and discussing every molecule of it?
We know it's bread, man!!
oh well.
peace.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:
Sparrow, I hear ya. As long as there are people there will be the written word and being words are vehicles of communication I can see God using this vehicle to express Himself to us. But, people being people, I guess there has to be corruption and crucifixion and words are not exempt. Jesus was not. The principal of hiding in a crowd is a good one and effective. God has hid His message in a quagmire of physical words.
For me I want simplicity again. More than words can say I am appreciative of all I feel I have learned but in my learning I lost or think I almost lost something precious and I guess I want to warn others to be very careful. If my first love is Jesus Christ I hope I do not lose it in favor of intellectualism or a need to win an argument. I have no need to talk anyone into anything anymore either, this is freedom.
Oh well I gots to run. Great words Sparrow, thanks.
cp
Thanks guys for understanding me... :HeartThrob:
That means a lot.
Peace guys..
Have a nice thanksgiving.
love ya.
sparrow, could not have said it better if I tried.
In the end, I believe that what God truly wants for us is for us to love and be loved. If someone finds fulfillment in going through every single page of the Bible with a fine-toothed comb, then I suppose more power to them, but I have no such interest, and to be honest I don't feel as if I ought to have such an interest, either.
These are my thoughts on this topic. There are people God reaches with His truth by someone speaking it to them, and if they're somewhere where the written Word doesn't exist, then they can know God without actually reading His words. That's God doing the calling, choosing, and revealing, and He can do it however He chooses.
Once someone is exposed to the scriptures, however, I believe we are responsible for what we do with it. Tossing it aside, or teaching others that it's not important, I believe is a mistake. If one will do an honest search in the scriptures, leaving aside preconceived notions, nor taking only one or two verses out of context, there is scriptural evidence to show what the scriptures say about themselves - and it is much different than the disrespect that is often given. However, for one to be able to see that, actually believing the scriptures are legitimate would be important, as well as some things cannot be seen except God reveal them.
If none of the following applies to you (anyone reading this) that's great. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:
Mod Cut - Please check the Announcement Board
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=7383.msg84791#msg84791 for an annnouncement the moderators have been working on for several days. There are plenty of other places in the world today that are accepting to the deceit that the scriptures are either not reliable, not necessary, or don't understand that the Father and Son, the Spirit, and written scriptures work in tandem - that they don't cancel each other out, or One make the other unnecessary. TM is not one of those places. It has been repeatedly stated that the default setting at TM is respect for the scriptures/they are reliable (accurately translated and Spirit-revealed) and since several seem to insist on pushing the agenda that states otherwise, this will be moderated even more tightly.
Many people come through TM that are searching, weak in the faith, or have almost no faith. This is a site to promote the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ. Continually casting doubt upon the scriptures is a poor way to accomplish that.
James.
Quote from: Cardinal on November 26, 2009, 01:40:15 AMAny woman will tell you, it's a "man thing" that men have to be talked into taking a map on a trip, because they are convinced they know the way to Phoenix from Buffalo, and "Really, honey........going thru Florida was all part of the plan. I swear!" :laughing7: Blessings....
(http://media.nu.nl/m/m1czttcaroki.jpg)
Top of picture: Female expedition to the north pole.
Speech balloon: And then they dare to say women can't read maps.
QuoteAnd then they dare to say women can't read maps.
wut? They made it to the north pole. It's global warming.
LOL you two!
Quote from: claypot on November 26, 2009, 06:05:03 AM
The principal of hiding in a crowd is a good one and effective.
For me I want simplicity again. More than words can say I am appreciative of all I feel I have learned but in my learning I lost or think I almost lost something precious and I guess I want to warn others to be very careful. If my first love is Jesus Christ
cp
Nice points, cp. :thumbsup: It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter. Proverbs 25:2
You said "If my first love is Jesus Christ"...reminds me of "seek you first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you". First love.
Quote from: jabcat on November 26, 2009, 08:25:07 AM
Many people come through TM that are searching, weak in the faith, or have almost no faith. This is a site to promote the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ. Continually casting doubt upon the scriptures is a poor way to accomplish that.
James.
Your words seem good and true to me. Continually casting doubt upon the Scriptures is not good but once in while, while working out ones salvation with fear and trembling, a person will have doubts and to honestly face these doubts, IMO, is a healthy thing and good for all, infant and mature alike.
Those with no faith want honesty above all. They are tired of lies and false faces and that is why they come to TM, to find honest seekers of the Truth.
Again, to continually cast doubt is wrong, to honestly admit doubt is the first step in getting rid of it.
cp
Happy Thanksgiving to all :HeartThrob:
Good thoughts everyone :thumbsup:
I have had some doubt recently. not in the way that I dont think God has spoken truth to me through it, I know he has and continues to on a near daily basis. But the why I believe to be Gods ultimate revelation to man...thats been urking me a bit. I know I do, I have a few observations that seem plausable to me. But its not like with UR where I have so many great reasons from thinking about every side of the issue. Id kindof like to get to the point that I can do that, or at least close
Quote from: claypot on November 26, 2009, 03:49:50 PM
Quote from: jabcat on November 26, 2009, 08:25:07 AM
Many people come through TM that are searching, weak in the faith, or have almost no faith. This is a site to promote the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ. Continually casting doubt upon the scriptures is a poor way to accomplish that.
James.
Your words seem good and true to me. Continually casting doubt upon the Scriptures is not good but once in while, while working out ones salvation with fear and trembling, a person will have doubts and to honestly face these doubts, IMO, is a healthy thing and good for all, infant and mature alike.
Those with no faith want honesty above all. They are tired of lies and false faces and that is why they come to TM, to find honest seekers of the Truth.
Again, to continually cast doubt is wrong, to honestly admit doubt is the first step in getting rid of it.
cp
I agree cp, and I
personally struggled with the "take these types of questions to PM for help" piece of the Mod posting. A statement was considered about honest questions being good/acceptable, but if not careful, then it can become an opportunity for division and an unhelpful direction.
We're not asking that no one ever have any doubts anymore, or be able to express a struggle. Brother, I struggle every day. However, since the mission of TM is to share the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, and not a gospel of universal relativism, a topic such as this will be moderated very tightly - keeping the conversation to someone truly seeking, and to those who are attempting to help within the context of Spirit-revealed scriptures.
Acts 17:11
"The people of Berea were more open-minded than the people of Thessalonica. They were very willing to receive God's message, and every day they carefully examined the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true." (God's Word translation)
"These people were more receptive than those in Thessalonica. They were very willing to receive the message, and every day they carefully examined the Scriptures to see if those things were so." (ISV)
"and these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, they received the word with all readiness of mind, every day examining the Writings whether those things were so;" (Young's)
:Peace2:
Got it, jab, and I will be careful. Thanks.
cp
Thanks bro, me too. :thumbsup:
Love His Word the bible is a great comfort to me
many times when struggling , just open it to just what we need to hear and such perfect timing the Lords Word and Spirit is powerful that way , you just ask Him and He will give it to you ..it works so perfectly God knows what we need before we ask , but we need to ask for His guidence and help .. :HeartThrob:
just had to say this ...........
I'm glad you just had to say that Rose for thems good words you wrote. Reminders like that are always good.
cp
Quote from: claypot on November 28, 2009, 04:50:55 PM
I'm glad you just had to say that Rose for thems good words you wrote. Reminders like that are always good.
cp
Thanks brother C.
I do love you , you are so very dear ..
so many blessings of God in our experiences , learning to be thankful in them all , not so easy as it sounds though . :HeartThrob:
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also
you are called in one body; and be thankful.
the sufferings can also become the greatest blessings in the Body of Christ to which we are all members :HeartThrob:
CP:
Personally, I hear a message in what you express, and I would like to chat with you more. If you feel like it: brian@ahigherway.net
Jabcat:
Since you mentioned that certain discussions may shake the little faith of newbies. Isn't there a board that is only for "older" members? That might "free up" moderation efforts a bit!
My :2c:
Love to all,
Brian
Quote from: whyiloveitaly on December 04, 2009, 04:09:40 PM
CP:
Personally, I hear a message in what you express, and I would like to chat with you more. If you feel like it: brian@ahigherway.net
Jabcat:
Since you mentioned that certain discussions may shake the little faith of newbies. Isn't there a board that is only for "older" members? That might "free up" moderation efforts a bit!
My :2c:
Love to all,
Brian
I pm'd ya Brian.
cp
Quote from: whyiloveitaly on December 04, 2009, 04:09:40 PM
CP:
Personally, I hear a message in what you express, and I would like to chat with you more. If you feel like it: brian@ahigherway.net
Jabcat:
Since you mentioned that certain discussions may shake the little faith of newbies. Isn't there a board that is only for "older" members? That might "free up" moderation efforts a bit!
My :2c:
Love to all,
Brian
Well brother, we're in the process of discussing the different boards, one suggestion has been to up the number of posts it takes to get into a sort of "semi-private" board, etc. Not there yet, thanks for the consideration - we'll work on it! :bigGrin:
P.S. Another thing that has come up is to encourage the use of PMs, as well as a private Speak To Mod threads, where one or several members can be invited in to discuss anything with the mods. As noted though, we're also looking at the boards too. Thanks.
How about an "Enter at Your Own Risk" section.
The Spirit will not lead where He does not want us to be.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on December 05, 2009, 05:15:59 AM
How about an "Enter at Your Own Risk" section.
The Spirit will not lead where He does not want us to be.
Let the rest slander each other all night long.
BS aka Dave , your joking right ? :mblush:
You were one a slandering the other week, calling sparrow
" sorrow " :mshock:
We need to just examine ourselves and see just what manner of "spirit " we are of
That sending the" fire down " on others and than the prayers by those heaping "hot coals" on our heads
Have this one examining " itself "and "put to silence "
Desiring the "joy in the Lord " to return in every heart/mind upon this forum once again
I have made some mistakes and am repenting of them ..
I am going to use the word "I "
Hope no one takes offence , because it is personal as well as corporeal .
So sorry to every member of the
BODY OF CHRIST , I do need you !!!
The heart / love needs the mind/ knowledge &understanding and the hands / works and the feet/speaks of His peace etc ...
God knows how sorry I am .. very humbled and in a lower place right now .
I've found this thread very interesting. For me, since I've come to a better understanding of the message of the Bible, I've come to see what it is differently. On my way to work each morning, I drive by a church whose sign frequently has messages about the inerrancy of the Bible and the perfection of one particular translation. This felt wrong to me, but I couldn't always say why. Honestly, I think that people who feel distant from God cling to the Bible, sometimes desperately. People feel that God is far away, but this book is sitting here in our laps, so this is the only way we can know God. It's like a box of letters my family has from my great-grandfather. I can never know my great-grandfather because he's passed away, but I can know him through these letters, so I could choose to pick apart every word. I'm glad that Gab pointed out earlier in the thread that the Bible identifies Jesus as the Word of God -- that is an important truth to remember. I think the Bible is "perfect" in the sense that it is exactly what God intended it to be, but I don't think it was intended to be our sole connection to Him, and I certainly don't think we should worship it as if it were Him. The Bible is truth, and it is what God intended us to know, but I think it is a mere shadow compared to what God Himself is.
No, I am not joking.
If people want to argue — let them.
Hence, the "Enter at Your Own Risk" section.
If the Lord leads you in there — He will back up your Words!
Quote from: rosered on December 05, 2009, 03:15:48 PM
BODY OF CHRIST , I do need you !!!
The heart / love needs the mind/ knowledge &understanding and the hands / works and the feet/speaks of His peace etc ...
We need you too, rosie. Remember, God forgives - and forgets. Leads us forward - "forgetting the things that lie behind and reaching for the things that lie ahead". Blessings, James.
Kimberlaina,
One verse that has really stuck within me is where it says that "the letter killeth." I think many Christians don't understand this verse.
Man shall not live by bread alone (the written Word?), but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (daily revelation in the Spirit?).
Gerrard Winstanley once wrote (paraphrased) in the Breaking of the Day of God:
"The sin of the Jews was to keep to Moses after Christ came, and it may well be the sin of the gentiles to keep to the letter of the Apostles after God has taken up his saints into spiritual enjoyment of Himself."
Blessings to all,
Brian
:cloud9: AMEN Brian.......the letter understanding ONLY, is as the body of Moses, and Satan continually keeps on us to try to get THAT BODY, instead of the one of, HE IS RISEN. God help us all to overcome. Blessings....
This thread has been on my mind a lot the past few days. I've been thinking that the way people cling to the Bible -- perhaps to the point of idolatry -- has a lot to do with Hell. I went through this personally when I was battling the whole free will vs. predestination issue and feeling a lot of spiritual turmoil -- this was in the months before I discovered UR. I asked myself, "If we're all in peril of ending up in a place of eternal torture, why did God leave such messed up instructions? If He really loves and cares about us, why leave any doubt about how to get to Heaven?" The truth is, when you read the Bible asking what you need to do to get to Heaven, you'll get confused. There seem to be a gazillion elements to "getting saved." Every type of church has a different interpretation and a different answer. If you believe that man must do something to "get saved" then the Bible is completely essential -- without it, no one would ever see God. People have to believe it's perfect and inerrant because any error puts them in danger of believing the wrong thing and ending up in Hell. (I'm not saying it's not perfect or even essential, but even if the Bible isn't perfect or has been damaged in translation, God is still perfect and can communicate with us.) When you realize that you ARE saved (not by your own actions), the Bible becomes a beautiful narrative of man's relationship with God and far less of an instruction book.
Kimberlaina,
I like your input!
It's almost as though ETers are afraid of God (not fear in a reverent sense), and the doctrine of "fire and brimstone" isn't very "spiritual" as I see it. If you try to explain to them that God is a fire, and that hell is simply the purification of God as we return to Him, you get a blank stare! It's like they don't get it! It may not be the 100% correct interpretation, but anything that might be "symbolic" tends to get the dazed look from them, because they see things only literally. Anything "deeper" is too difficult.
Even the concept of God loving everyone in spite of their actions, is beyond belief for most of them. They just can't believe it. What??? God loves you with all your sin??? :mshock:
So you can imagine if someone told them their Bible was misinterpreted! It'd send them into serious shock.... And in fact, they refuse to accept it!
Love to all,
Brian
Ps. Good morning Cardinal! I saw you're online! Here it's 8am, but I imagine where you are it's late night!...
:cloud9: Hi Brian, I missed this last night. Yes, didn't hit the hay till 3am last night. How are you doing over there? Do you live there permanently or is this a short term job assignment for you? Blessings to you, Card
Hi again!
No, I'm pretty much here now; my wife is Italian and we're quite satisfied here so we go to the States just on vacation..
It's always good to see your "presence" here!
Blessings,
Brian
Quote from: Kimberlaina on December 16, 2009, 05:29:17 AM
This thread has been on my mind a lot the past few days. I've been thinking that the way people cling to the Bible -- perhaps to the point of idolatry -- has a lot to do with Hell. I went through this personally when I was battling the whole free will vs. predestination issue and feeling a lot of spiritual turmoil -- this was in the months before I discovered UR. I asked myself, "If we're all in peril of ending up in a place of eternal torture, why did God leave such messed up instructions? If He really loves and cares about us, why leave any doubt about how to get to Heaven?" The truth is, when you read the Bible asking what you need to do to get to Heaven, you'll get confused. There seem to be a gazillion elements to "getting saved." Every type of church has a different interpretation and a different answer. If you believe that man must do something to "get saved" then the Bible is completely essential -- without it, no one would ever see God. People have to believe it's perfect and inerrant because any error puts them in danger of believing the wrong thing and ending up in Hell. (I'm not saying it's not perfect or even essential, but even if the Bible isn't perfect or has been damaged in translation, God is still perfect and can communicate with us.) When you realize that you ARE saved (not by your own actions), the Bible becomes a beautiful narrative of man's relationship with God and far less of an instruction book.
That some good stuff Kim. I see God as insanely crazy in His love for us, His creation. He is jealous (in a perfect way) over us. You said it well when you say the Bible, if anything, is a beautiful narrative of our 'love' relationship with Him.
Can't read Hosea and Song of Songs without seeing Gods wild and zany love for us, at least you can't if you see Hosea's wife and the woman in Song of Songs as representing creation (you and I and all).
We talk about how we should love God with all our hearts, souls and minds yet we don't often think about God loving us likewise.
We say God so loved the world. Wow. Boring.
We should say God is insanely madly and crazy in love with us. He is bonkers over us. He is dangerously jealous over us. He is for us......HE IS FOR US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now read Song of Songs and Hosea.
cp
:cloud9: @Brian.......Oh, that's nice. Never been there, but from the pictures I've seen it looks gorgeous. Love Old World anything. Good to see you here again, too! Blessings....
I once saw a website that said that most Christians act like God gave us the wrong book . . . where's the one with all the rules and the "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots"? What's with this dumb story? :laughing7: . . . the story is the point.
One reason God is using forums to minister His gospel
is it is here for those who 'seek' Him out
He says 'seek me and live, all you ends of the earth!"
Isaaih 62;12
They will be called the Holy people, the Redeemed of the Lord
And you will be called 'SOUGHT AFTER" the city no longer
deserted.
He became tired of holding His arms out all day long to a
people who wasn't interested.
The following is an exmple of Babylon...the adulteress
Proverbs 7;10 then out came a woman to meet him, dressed
like a prostitie and with crafty intent
She is loud and defiant..her feet never stay at home...
now in the street,now in the squares
at every corner she lurks[ think churches on every corner]
I have fellowship offerings at home, today I fulfilled my vows
so I came out to meet you, I looked for you and I found you!!
v 14 Come! Lets drink deep of love til morning, let's enjoy
ourselves with love! My husband is NOT at home; he has gone
on a long journey[think awaiting Christ's return] With
persuasive words she led him astray, she seduced him with her
smooth talk........v26, many are the victims she has brought
down 27 her house is a highway to the grave.
Wisdoms call Proverbs 8 Does not Wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice? On the heights
along 'the WAY" where the paths meet[crossroads] she takes
her stand; beside the gates leading into the city...
at the entrances she cries out " To you O' men I call out,
I raise my voice to all mankind. you who are simple,gain
prudence; you who are foolish gain understanding. Listen, for
I have worthy things to say. I open my lips to speak what is
right.My mouth speaks what is true, for my lips detest
wickedness. All the words of my mouth are just, none of them
are crooked or perverse. To the discerning all of them are right
they are faultless to those who have knowledge[ this is the
Holy spirit speaking/teaching] in contrast to the adulteress
Choose my instruction instead of silver, knowledge rather than
choice gold, for Wisdom is more precious than rubies, and
nothing you can desire can compare with her
to fear the Lord is to hate evil, I hate pride and arrogance, evil
behaviour and perverse speech. Counsel and sound judgement
are mine; I have understanding and power. By me kings reign
by me princes govern, and all nobles who rule on earth
I love those who love me...and those who seek me
find me
the woman shall be kept safe through childbearing,as long as
she remain a worker at home.
Isaaih 60; Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the
Glory of the Lord rises upon you. See darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the Lord arise upon
you and His glory appears over you. NATIONS WILL COME TO
YOUR LIGHT, AND KINGS TO THE BRIGHTNESS OF YOUR DAWN
Lift up your eyes and look about you, All assemble and come
to you. Your sons come from afar, and your daughters are
carried on the arm... who are these that fly along like clouds,
like doves to their nests?....bringing your sons from afar, with
their silver and gold, to THE HONOUR OF THE LORD YOUR GOD
THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL, FOR HE HAS ENDOWED YOU WITH
SPLENDOUR
Psalms 87;5 Indeed, of Zion it will be said, 'this one and that
one were born in her, and the MOST HIGH HIMSELF WILL
ESTABLISH HER
Isaaih 2;2 In the last days, the MOUNTAIN of the LORD'S
TEMPLE will be established as the cheif among the mountains.
It will be raised above the hills and all nations will stream to it
Quote from: sheila on December 21, 2009, 02:34:41 AM
"v 14 Come! Lets drink deep of love til morning, let's enjoy
ourselves with love! My husband is NOT at home; he has gone
on a long journey[think awaiting Christ's return] With
persuasive words she led him astray, she seduced him with her
smooth talk........v26, many are the victims she has brought
down 27 her house is a highway to the grave."
"the woman shall be kept safe through childbearing,as long as
she remain a worker at home."
:cloud9: :thumbsup: All of it is good, but these two parts I put in quotes, just stood out to me. Can't you just see the first one going on now?
And the second one jumped out at me as another witness for why He pulled us out of the churches TO SEEK HIS FACE. Blessings....
Our Mother is Jerusalem above.She is THE FREE WOMAN
free from slavery/corruption.... The HOLY SPIRIT will be
established in the earth.
Honour thy Father and thy Mother
Did you ever hear a man say' say want you want about my son
or me, but don't speak evil of my wife" Now you know how
Father feels about the sin against the Holy spirit
Quote from: whyiloveitaly on December 05, 2009, 08:44:41 PM
Kimberlaina,
One verse that has really stuck within me is where it says that "the letter killeth." I think many Christians don't understand this verse.
Man shall not live by bread alone (the written Word?), but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (daily revelation in the Spirit?).
Blessings to all,
Brian
Hi Brian
I agree on the "every word" part and it is not just an option for us but a requirement.
However so many times when the Lord has something for me to get through my sometimes thick skull He sends me to a certain passage of the Scriptures where I can see it in black and white. Matter of fact anytime that we hear a word in the spirit that cannot be confirmed through the written word that what we are "hearing" is in fact within the boundaries established by God in His written word, then the spoken word we have heard must be discarded!
Simply put all spirits are not "holy" and God is not the author of confusion. He has given us His Laws for determining truth and when any spoken word cannot be fulfilled within those permitters we need to reconsider just who is the author of the word we are hearing.
Blessings
Doug
Quote from: Livelystone on December 28, 2009, 11:43:36 PM
anytime that we hear a word in the spirit that cannot be confirmed through the written word that what we are "hearing" is in fact within the boundaries established by God in His written word, then the spoken word we have heard must be discarded!
Simply put all spirits are not "holy" and God is not the author of confusion. He has given us His Laws for determining truth and when any spoken word cannot be fulfilled within those permitters we need to reconsider just who is the author of the word we are hearing.
Doug
:thumbsup:
:cloud9: Amen Doug :thumbsup: He has NEVER spoken anything by way of instruction that was not followed up by scriptures 'flying' at me to back up what He said, no matter how "off the wall" it may have sounded to me to begin with. Blessings....
Quote from: NinjaWizards777 on November 21, 2009, 04:03:36 AM
What personally convincies you that the Bible is Gods revelation to man (above any other text)? its something Ive thought about on and off for awhile and I have my own reasons that I believe of course.
The point is not to "debate" but just to complile of list of reasons that you feel strongly about. could be fun?
For me, it was answered prayer all the way...Or else i would have told the eternal torment idea of God to shove it, long ago.