Why I Left the Church

[lomarah]

This is a letter written by someone who left the church. Thought some of you might like to read it.
Taken from here: http://pastorbenstevens.tumblr.com/post/46504460964/why-i-left-the-church



So my dad and I were going for a walk the other evening. My dad and I often have great conversations on our walks and on this particular evening we got on the topic of a book he was reading. This book was about people leaving the church and how to get them to come back. My dad told me the author of the book broke these people down into three different age brackets, analyzed why each group is leaving and talked about ways to draw them back into the fold. Because I too have left the church, I have personal experience with this and although I can't speak to each individual's personal reason for leaving I can tell you why I have left, and I think it may shine a light on other people's reasons as well.

The reason I left the church is precisely because of the mentality of the book my dad was reading. Although dad and I didn't get into the details of what he was reading, all I had to know was that there was a book that spoke about three different ways to market the church to three different segments of society to remind me why. The reason I left was because the Church is more interested in a marketing campaign "for Jesus" than in mentoring people in developing a relationship with the divine. To be sure, there are many churches that "get it right" more often than not but, in general, the Church lacks authenticity. It's more interested in drawing people in than what it will do once the seats are filled. It's more interested in keeping people entertained and giving "pat answers" than actually getting to the nitty gritty of the lives of hurting people. It's more concerned with creating clubs and organizing "ministries" within than creating an atmosphere where those "outside" feel comfortable being themselves and learning about their ultimate worth before God. 

In my opinion, the church's lack of depth is failing to create authentically loving people who see and respect God's image in EVERYONE; People who realize God's love is not just for those who believe a certain way; people who accept others for who they are, sin and all; people who realize they are just as sinful as anyone else and have no right to judge. Instead it is creating people who pretend to be perfect and who think they are better than others because of what they believe. It creates people who take ethical stands on issues without taking the time to see the humanity on the other side. It creates hurting, sinful people who feel like they can't be authentic because they will let others down and let God down in the process. People who are afraid they will fail to meet an unrealistic ideal of what a Christian should be. 

This is why I left the Church.

People are human. To be authentically human is to have struggles, to be faced with hard decisions, to let people down, to let God down. Authenticity demands that we don't glaze over these issues. It's not just about doing what is right over doing what is wrong. It's not just about saying this is how you should live your life. And it is definitely NOT about saying if you don't believe a certain thing or live your life a certain way then you have no part to play in God's divine plan or are loved by God any less than those who do. God reaches into the lives of those who place their trust in Him through all of the struggles hard decisions and let downs. We don't need to pretend to be perfect with Him. We shouldn't, therefore, need to be perfect with each other. Instead, we need to be creating an environment where EVERYONE feels comfortable being who they are before God, without the fear of being judged as being any less. Where we learn to see God's image not just in those who believe the things we do but in all of humanity.

If the Church wants to get people back it needs to stop trying to get people back. Marketing Jesus to different segments of society is offensive and leaves people with a bad taste in their mouths. Jesus does not need people who are figuring out ways to make Him appealing. Jesus needs authentic people who are learning to really love others in a way that honors His image. He needs people who are more concerned with Love than with being "right", who are willing to admit when they are struggling and who will lift each other up instead of judging each other for falling short. If the Church wants people to come back it needs to help facilitate a REAL relationship with God. It needs to teach compassion for others, not from a sense of any superiority but from a place of shared humanity. It needs to teach people to love without any hidden motives. It needs to teach us to see the humanity in ethical issues instead of pretending they are black and white.

If the Church wants us back it needs to be authentic and stop writing books about how to get people to come back.

                                                                         - Molly Steeves

[CHB]

Instead, we need to be creating an environment where EVERYONE feels comfortable being who they are before God, without the fear of being judged as being any less. Where we learn to see God's image not just in those who believe the things we do but in all of humanity.

Is this the kind of invironment that Jesus will endorse when he returns? Or, will we all be taught the truth, that we all need to give up our own way of thinking and not be ourselves because ourselves need to be cleaned?

CHB

[lomarah]

Oh C... think of Jesus, think of Him eating with "sinners", prostitutes, thieves... think of who He reprimanded constantly: the religious hypocrites. They preached and they knew the scriptures, they knew "right and wrong" but they knew not the Father who is LOVE! We WILL all give up our false ways of thinking, but it will come through God's love and God's Spirit breathed Word. And it will set us all free.  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[CHB]

I have thought of that lomarah but I also though of Jesus saying to the woman who was caught in adultry, "go and sin no more". What about when he ran the money changers out of the Temple?  (Matt. 24:49) And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, AND TO EAT AND DRINK WITH THE DRUNKEN. Now wait a minute, I thought Jesus ate with sinners?

CHB

[lomarah]

He is zealous for His temple amen??

When Jesus met her at the well, He loved her, offered her what would truly fill her void that she was trying to fill with men (ie His living water) and told her to sin no more. Perfect.  :cloud9:  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[jbertonbounds]

I have a cousin who left the protestant church and she worships with others outside of any organization.  Her reason was that she felt God had "called her out of man's church."  Her point was that their doctrines are so full of heresy that she could not be involved with them anymore.  She seemed to think that it thwarted her spiritual development with God.  I'm not sure what to think.  I am still involved in a Baptist church and I believe that is where God wants me at this point.  I differ widely from their doctrine, but they are still believers, and I can serve them with my musical ability (I play the keyboard).  But still, I question my involvement with a group of people who teach ET, along with other heresies.  I am still listening for God's call on this one.  I would appreciate anyone's  :2c:  on this.

[lomarah]

Seek the Lord about it jb. Be willing to lay it down if need be. He can use your musical abilities if He desires, and in a much greater way.  :HeartThrob:

[misszoolander]

Instead, we need to be creating an environment where EVERYONE feels comfortable being who they are before God, without the fear of being judged as being any less. Where we learn to see God's image not just in those who believe the things we do but in all of humanity.

Is this the kind of invironment that Jesus will endorse when he returns? Or, will we all be taught the truth, that we all need to give up our own way of thinking and not be ourselves because ourselves need to be cleaned?

CHB

CHB,
Forgive me, but I am finding it hard to follow you...
The Church needs to be able to accept everyone, and I mean everyone. Some people struggle with the same sins for years, some people  change overnight. Of course people need to give up their own way of thinking, but most Christian churches instead make people give in to their way of thinking, rather then the Lords way of thinking.

[jbertonbounds]

MissZ,
I remember when I was growing up hearing people say, "You can hate what a person does, but love the person."  This is a true statement.  Of course we also have to draw lines.  Some people want to become involved in church activities such as teaching and ministering without repenting of major sins in their lives, such a sexually sinful lifestyles.  Knowing exactly where to draw lines can sometimes be the most difficult thing we do.  The next most difficult thing we do is probably loving these people without being judgmental. Yet we do not want to be overly tolerant either.

[CHB]

Instead, we need to be creating an environment where EVERYONE feels comfortable being who they are before God, without the fear of being judged as being any less. Where we learn to see God's image not just in those who believe the things we do but in all of humanity.

Is this the kind of invironment that Jesus will endorse when he returns? Or, will we all be taught the truth, that we all need to give up our own way of thinking and not be ourselves because ourselves need to be cleaned?

CHB

CHB,
Forgive me, but I am finding it hard to follow you...
The Church needs to be able to accept everyone, and I mean everyone. Some people struggle with the same sins for years, some people  change overnight. Of course people need to give up their own way of thinking, but most Christian churches instead make people give in to their way of thinking, rather then the Lords way of thinking.

Yes, the Churches need to accept everyone with the intention of helping people change their lives, not patting them on the back and tell them they are ok. Not accepting their sins as being ok. Or bring them in with no intention of ministering to them to change their ways. When Christ returns, will he not bring everyone to their knees to a complete turnaround or will he leave us as we are? My understanding is, he is going to show us how wrong our lives have been and he is going to change us, not leave us as we are. All of our fleshly desires will be done away with. If he has to do away with them, then they shouldn't be there to start with.  Maybe I didn't explain this good enough?

CHB

[misszoolander]

Yes and I completely agree, but how do you reconcile and develop loving relationships with people while they are still sinning, remaining broken etc, and making the choice to do so?

By supporting these people are we "patting" them on the back? By being friends with these people are we "patting" them on the back? By cherishing these people are we "patting" them on the back?

Do we stay away from these people, or get close to them? Do we insist to them over and over again that their sin is disgraceful and harmful to the extent where they are pushed away? Or do we pray for them?

What exactly do we do??

"My understanding is, he is going to show us how wrong our lives have been and he is going to change us, not leave us as we are. All of our fleshly desires will be done away with. If he has to do away with them, then they shouldn't be there to start with.:" -  but how about right now? People are hurting right now, suffering right now, this world is pretty much hell right now. What can we offer to broken hearts apart from love?

I guess my question is - Where is this fine line drawn, how do we even know if we are patting people on the backs for their sin? 

[misszoolander]

MissZ,
I remember when I was growing up hearing people say, "You can hate what a person does, but love the person."  This is a true statement.  Of course we also have to draw lines.  Some people want to become involved in church activities such as teaching and ministering without repenting of major sins in their lives, such a sexually sinful lifestyles.  Knowing exactly where to draw lines can sometimes be the most difficult thing we do.  The next most difficult thing we do is probably loving these people without being judgmental. Yet we do not want to be overly tolerant either.

Only the love of God can transform a heart, if he uses us to do it, then let it be so. Praise God that no one is lost forever  :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[lomarah]

MissZ you are a huge inspiration to me and give me much hope. 

[misszoolander]

 :friendstu: Thank you Lo,

For you friend -

Romans 15:13  May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.

:HeartThrob:

[lomarah]

Thank you, that was really sweet. :)  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Deena]

So true, only the love of God can transform a heart. We know it;we have to tell them that God understands--forgive them Father, for they know not what they do. Yes, God loves the sinner and waits for his cry to Him. He longs to love and restore. I have not experienced in this life complete restoration, but I know it is my inheritance in Christ. We must tell them of His love, His plan. There is hope, even if, like the fathers of faith, we do not see it in our lifetimes. it will happen.

[jbertonbounds]

These things I am reading this morning are so encouraging!  Thank you all.  We all have so many questions as to how to relate to those who live sinful lifestyles.  Frankly, the Holy Spirit will guide us, and he will not mislead us in anything.  If we make mistakes along the way (and we will), the Spirit will still work through us in spite of our mistakes.  Oh the grace!  May God bless you all in your Kingdom work, for there is much loving to be done!

[shawn]

I have thought of that lomarah but I also though of Jesus saying to the woman who was caught in adultry, "go and sin no more". What about when he ran the money changers out of the Temple?  (Matt. 24:49) And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, AND TO EAT AND DRINK WITH THE DRUNKEN. Now wait a minute, I thought Jesus ate with sinners?

CHB

I was reading Jude last night in the message translation and really like how this topic was worded...

Go easy on those who hesitate in the faith. Go after those who take the wrong way. Be tender with sinners, but not soft on sin. The sin itself stinks to high heaven.

Tender with sinners, but not soft on sin.  I like that, and I must admit that is a tough balance for me.  And we are here left to debate the implication in our faith walk, and relationships to others.

Recent discussions have really stretched me, made me wrestle with some things.  I was up much of the night thinking about these things.  I see Jesus as being our example to how we should address sin, and nonbelievers.  Jesus ate with, loved, and encouraged those ousted by society as "bad sinners".  The adulterous woman comes to mind.  IMO, she is the modern day homosexual.  Jesus doesn't want us to throw stones, He didn't condemn her but He also addressed her sin and told her to go and sin no more.  He tempered justice with mercy.  He built relationships with sinners.  He loved them and he corrected them.  He accepted them how they were but asked for them to turn away from the lifestyles that seperated them from God.

If I am to take this as an example of how I should act (and I should) then I must believe I should make an effort to love those who society shuns.  I should build relationships with, break bread with, and express hospitality to nonbelievers and believers alike.  While I don't believe it's my obligation to correct a nonbeliever, I do believe a loving relationship can build a foundation where correction can take place to ears opened by God's love expressed through me.

So, I'm not sure you will see me on any street corners holding a sign condemning homosexuals, adulterers/esses, liars, gossipers etc anytime soon.  And, I doubt you will see me outside of recovery situations correcting a strangers behavior.  But, I do believe a loving relationship may open up lines of communication between me and someone bound to a vice, sinful lifestyle or a lack of faith.  And in that moment there may come a Holy Spirit guided opportunity for me to express loving correction.

[CHB]

Yes and I completely agree, but how do you reconcile and develop loving relationships with people while they are still sinning, remaining broken etc, and making the choice to do so?

We are all sinners but if you see someone you know destroying themselves by their behavior do you just turn away, not say anything, or do you talk to them about their problem?

By supporting these people are we "patting" them on the back? By being friends with these people are we "patting" them on the back? By cherishing these people are we "patting" them on the back?

No, but if we also keep our mouths shut and don't lift a finger to help them, pull them out of the fire, so to speak, then we certaintly are patting them on the back and enabling them to continue down a dark road. Is that loving them or just being uncaring and uninterested in their problem?

Do we stay away from these people, or get close to them? Do we insist to them over and over again that their sin is disgraceful and harmful to the extent where they are pushed away? Or do we pray for them?

What exactly do we do??

I have never suggested to stay away from these people, I think Paul did on certain occasions though.

First we let them know we love them but God loves them more. We pray for them. We talk to them, we point them in a better direction. If you were lost on an unfamiliar road, wouldn't you hope that someone would come along and point you in the right direction? Sometimes these people are desperate for someone to do just that. Sometimes an alcoholic is an alcoholic because they just don't know how to deal with things and no one has CARED enough to help them. 

"My understanding is, he is going to show us how wrong our lives have been and he is going to change us, not leave us as we are. All of our fleshly desires will be done away with. If he has to do away with them, then they shouldn't be there to start with.:" -  but how about right now? People are hurting right now, suffering right now, this world is pretty much hell right now. What can we offer to broken hearts apart from love?

What do you think God called us out for? Did he call us out to sit on our behinds and not lift a finger to help anyone? The love of many has grown cold, no one cares and the world is becoming worse and worse. No one wants to rock the boat, no one wants to speak out about anything. No one wants to tell the world about how Jesus came to save the world and he did. Everyone is afraid of being rejected, persecuted, not showing love to the sinner, I guess. I believe the time is coming when God will light a fire under our tails and then we will react. God uses us when it's his time to do so.

I guess my question is - Where is this fine line drawn, how do we even know if we are patting people on the backs for their sin?

When we agree with their life style, hang out with them and never try to encourage them to seek help or change their way of life then we are patting them on the back.

Just the way I see this.

CHB

[jabcat]

IMO, great questions raised and points made by mzoo, and perfect answers by CHB.  Great post.  IMO, that absolutely sums it up, with total scriptural backing.  Speaking of scriptural backing - you said "I think Paul did on certain occasions though."    Jesus actually recommended the same, under certain conditions.  Matthew 18:17 - if they won't listen [after multiple attempts] "treat them as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector".  One of the hard sayings that can make us uncomfortable and takes some effort to rightly divide and spiritually correctly apply;  so IMO, our growing tendency is to "explain away" or ignore.

Edit - Shawn, I'd been following this thread a couple of days, but didn't see your post until after I posted this responding to CHB, just so you know I wasn't zeroing in on what you said.  I actually agree with what you said, with a key phrase being "finding the balance".  I  believe it's ALL through at least 2 things;  seeking the whole of what the scriptures say - not just instruction, or just "love" (especially what we call our modern-day version - recalling the "Love/Hate" thread, and what we're often now being told what those are, having it defined for us by the world, rather than the scriptures) or "ignoring" sin/never saying a word -    AND, always being led by the Holy Spirit as to when and how to apply all things.  But IMO, if we don't first know what the scriptures really say - such as the above Matthew scrip for instance, we"ll likely be highly influenced by surrounding societal trends and influences, tend toward false doctrine of what feels more comfortable or "makes the most sense",  pull out a certain scrip (Jesus hung out with sinners - [He did, but also said the other]) and can miss true leading or even argue with the Holy Spirit.   :2c:  IMO, that's how we drift away from truth - not really knowing the scriptures, and therefor missing how/when the Holy Spirit guides in applying them.  Another  :2c:

[jabcat]

Thanks for getting back on topic w/p.   :thumbsup:   

(We've still got the "what gives us the right to judge thread" and "love/hate" threads going, but they're popping up other places   :laugh:   Obviously something many of us are struggling with in current society.)  Blessings.

[jbertonbounds]

I believe the day is coming, and probably is already here,  that a gay couple will walk into a church service holding hands, walk the isle to "join the church", then announce that they want to teach in the children's department.  When their lifestyle is not accepted by the church, and they are denied the privilege of teaching, they will accuse the church of hate.  Of course this is not about homosexuality, and I could give many scenarios using different sin-lifestyles, but you get the point.  As everyone has quite well stated in this post, we should love them (or anybody else who lives in a sinful lifestyle) with the love of God to the best of our ability.  But can we let them come into our churches and teach or otherwise become active in Kingdom work?  To allow this would be, in essence, to condone sin.  Sometimes, even when we do everything right, we are misunderstood or accused of doing wrong.  It all boils down to letting the Holy Spirit be our guide in dealing with each situation that comes along, and let him guide us in knowing when to tolerate and when to draw that line. 

[jabcat]

 :2thumbs:

[shawn]

I believe the day is coming, and probably is already here,  that a gay couple will walk into a church service holding hands, walk the isle to "join the church", then announce that they want to teach in the children's department.  When their lifestyle is not accepted by the church, and they are denied the privilege of teaching, they will accuse the church of hate.  Of course this is not about homosexuality, and I could give many scenarios using different sin-lifestyles, but you get the point.  As everyone has quite well stated in this post, we should love them (or anybody else who lives in a sinful lifestyle) with the love of God to the best of our ability.  But can we let them come into our churches and teach or otherwise become active in Kingdom work?  To allow this would be, in essence, to condone sin.  Sometimes, even when we do everything right, we are misunderstood or accused of doing wrong.  It all boils down to letting the Holy Spirit be our guide in dealing with each situation that comes along, and let him guide us in knowing when to tolerate and when to draw that line.

I agree.  We can not  allow those who are actively engaging in an affair, homosexuality etc to be involved in service work of the church without giving the impression that homosexuality is ok.  With that said, we should welcome them into our churches and homes with open arms.  Also, how many elders and pastors are engaging pornography in secret.  That is another crisis, and the same set of problems...possibly more dangerous.

[onlytruth]

That's why parents , should teach the kids?!