If it's already been proven that judgement day was supposed to happen long ago why do people still belive it's going to happen in the future
The Day of judgment may well be outside what we know as time, but it will be experienced by every soul. Since every soul has not yet been born, lived and died, it is assumed by most that the Day of judgment is "in the future". I am not sure it works exactly like that, but for the purpose of simple communication God has been content to allow that imagery to abide for whatever that Day will be, in the end of days, for all.
It certainly has not "been proved to be in the past".
I meant st. johns revelations
Well, There are several schools of thought about St. John's revelations, His apocolypse. Some believe it is all fulfilled already. I believe it is primarily a message sent in spiritual pictures for the ecclesia/called out ones of God. Some believe it is primarily a book concerning the events at the end of this age.
I have been studying it for 40 years and I find it to be more and more fulfilling as time goes by.... including elements of all of the above.
Hi ask ,
Lots of times , I can agree with many schools of thought , John you are right on about that!!
I do agree with you and also do agree with John , I do not see either or as wrong thinking .
Many times my own brothers and sister over the years have helped me see things clearer and have washed my feet , in the spiritual sense right here at the Tent site ,
I do want to always give credit to God for the HOLY SPIRIT first and foremost for helping us all and love also to share in the things I also believe the Holy Spirit has helped me personally to understand in the hopes it will encourage them also as it has me as they so often do the same .
Us all have same Holy Spirit and Word of God in common and hopefully the same speech and schools of thought by being taught of God . :friendstu:
I agree many things are judged already ,Such as there is no flesh pleasing God , never has and never will .
Jesus come to destroy the works of the devil and that is already in effect also , from the Day He declared it , long ago .
John 3 is a very powerful truth already in effect also,
For God So Loved the world !!
...17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned,
because
he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19
And this is the verdict:
The Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness more than light,
because their deeds were evil.... Quote from: ask21771 on June 27, 2016, 05:49:36 AM
I meant st. johns revelations
You might be referring to , ''the last time '' , or the hour is coming and now is , or just the revelation of the whole process of the book of revelation itself ?
Or the describing of the events of those times coming to pass ?
Here is the best way I can understand it Ask 21771 , as it ALL applies to each one of us given the ears to hear what the Spirit is saying and eyes to see it and heart to understand it and not a second before or after , Gods Holy Spirit gives it to us and makes it in ''our world a powerful truth ''
Something in 2 Peter about the progression of going further by faith to keep us from failing in the Lord Jesus Christ /Grace of God , because we all have to appear ,give an account before Him 2 Corh 5 and 1 Peter 4:5 that would be every last one of us , this I have no doubts about whatsoever ...
When in the Spirit in the here and now or in the wrong spirit in the here and now or when we all come to the end of our flesh , being literally dead , or dead in Christ and the body is considered as good as dead already because of sin , but not focusing on the sinful nature and continuing in it ,knowing better things , but dwelling in the holy nature and hanging on to it as much as you possibly can , Knowing this Love of God is able to save everyone though the Lord Jesus Christ ... :HeartThrob:
For me, somethings are judged already and other things are coming into judgement and it all depends on where YOU are at in the Lord Jesus Christ , being more personal than we even even thought or knew it could be . just my 2 cents about judgment , knowing this , God knows our heart and that is what matters most when it comes to judgment in my opinion .
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+1%3A5-15 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+1%3A5-15)
is there a chance revelations can still happen
Quote from: ask21771 on July 21, 2016, 12:39:31 AM
is there a chance revelations can still happen
It is the revealing of the Lord Jesus Christ , in my opinion ask21771 so yes ,absolutely still happening to many , I do believe ...
John even says ,''I was in the Spirit on the Lords DAY'' when he wrote down all he saw and heard ...Revelation 1:10
Its the same Holy Spirit teaching us now , to this day ..
Why do you ask ? Thanks :HeartThrob:
I mean the revelation of st. john happening
What doesn't come out clearly enough in the current beliefs about Judgment Day is that in the Judgment after death you can still apply for Jesus mercy even when on Earth you did not believe in him. Such unbelief is just one of the sins among many. Judgment Day is not a day of destruction but instead a time of a new beginning. In Heaven. For you and for me and for the entire human race.
Quote from: anti_nietzsche on July 21, 2016, 09:32:25 AM
What doesn't come out clearly enough in the current beliefs about Judgment Day is that in the Judgment after death you can still apply for Jesus mercy even when on Earth you did not believe in him. Such unbelief is just one of the sins among many. Judgment Day is not a day of destruction but instead a time of a new beginning. In Heaven. For you and for me and for the entire human race.
I agree :iagree: it is like your mind is still no age , young , but you can see your body is not the same when you start getting old , MY MIND is not that old as the rest of me is ... death is a state of being , a condition , not literally , but figuratively speaking . all will see the salvation of God !!!
Quote from: ask21771 on July 21, 2016, 08:26:33 AM
I mean the revelation of st. john happening
It doesnt come out clear enough in current beliefs but it is very clear in the scriptures. Phil 2:2-11 and 1 Cor 15:22-28 to name a couple.
Judgment Day will be a day of new beginnings, but heaven and earth will be one- the veil undone. Judgment Day will also be a day of reckoning for some. In the light of that Day the secrets of every heart will be revealed, and for some that exposure will be difficult- according to our Lord to be avoided. There is every benefit to bowing the knee to Jesus in this life, and receiving the cleansing blood that grants grace and confidence in the light of the Day- both Today and in the ages to come. But the judgment of God means the DISCERNMENT OF GOD, when the sword of the spirit will divide asunder soul and spirit and make manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart(Heb 4:12-14 and Romans 2:16).
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements(stoicheon-first principles) will be destroyed(dissolved-lythesetai) with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up(exposed-heurethesetai).
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. (//http://)
2 Peter 3:9 should be translated...
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in which the heavens will pass by and come(parerchomai from para-pass by and erchomai come along, arrive) with a rushing sound(like the whistling of an arrow) and the first principles will be dissolved and the earth and the works in it exposed.
This the purpose of the Day as it chases away the night, dissolves the darkness, and brings every hidden thing to light, making evrything that could not be seen visible.
:dsunny:
:HeartThrob:
Acts 17:31
31 Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead."
:banana:
Romans 14:7 - 12
7For none of us lives to himself alone, and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10Why, then, do you judge your brother? Or why do you belittle your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
"As surely as I live, says the Lord,
every knee will bow before Me;
every tongue will confess to God."
12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
D.
I.M.O judgment is necessary to show an individual what they have done wrong.
Assuming judgment means condemnation causes serious mental stress and issues which cause fear.
Judgment should mean correction- but being shown the error of your ways.
Once shown this error, the revelation that Christ has paid in full makes the position secure, which then corrects all objectives and values.
The unfortunate bondage inflicted in many seems to be the lack of information about the second death, along with the fear of permanent infliction when not having heard the glorious truth in the first place. After all, to be cast out from something of which you have never heard, is terrifying.
God kept a lot of info as a mystery; so to then to inflict serious judgment and cast out many would be a literal fearsome God. History shows man as offering sacrifices out of fear to nasty gods.
God keeping that mystery, to me, shows a plan which cannot fail. Teaching us as children is a gentle illustration of a loving God, using experiences to consolidate the training which is necessary before graduating to our heavenly role.
So the judgment is necessary for all at their own appointed time.
Quote from: ask21771 on July 21, 2016, 08:26:33 AM
I mean the revelation of st. john happening
I understand...are the horrors described in the Revelation of St. John going to actually occur ?..all that fiery judgement ?...sometimes, in the Bible, God relents and does not bring judgement...I hope the trauma and tribulations described in Revelation do not take place..this poor world has seen so much horror and bloodshed...but I'm not God..it's not in my hands...,pray, seek God about it.
I believe the last book is The Revelation of Jesus Christ........not John.
Quote from: ask21771 on June 27, 2016, 05:40:04 AM
If it's already been proven that judgement day was supposed to happen long ago why do people still belive it's going to happen in the future
Judgement day can also be stated as the day of judgement. Day does not mean a 24 hour period IMO. There are two major judgements. One is now being experienced by the Elect. The other is to come on all the rest of humanity who never heard of Christ or never believed. That second one is the White Throne Judgement of the final age (eon).
The first is on us, the Saints - the Elect:1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Jn_4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Eph_3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
We are being judged now in this life time during the age of grace in the loving hand of Christ our Saviour.
Eventually comes the White throne Judgement in the final eon when all the rest of humanity upon being resurrected will be judged by the righteous judge Jesus.
The throne He sits on is white, not black. Each will receive their just deserts. Some will receive a few stripes of chastisement and others a more severe chastening. Even though they will experience the second death, all will receive immortality at the consummation.
In today's mainstream theology "judgement day" is misunderstood and misapplied. God is Holy and good and always judges for the betterment of humanity.Also:
Many Christians may consider Judgment Day to be the same as the Days of God's wrath. That is when God steps in at the end of this age to deal with rebellious humanity. They are not the same IMO.
Rev_6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Quote from: darryl on July 22, 2016, 12:13:10 PM
Quote from: ask21771 on July 21, 2016, 08:26:33 AM
I mean the revelation of st. john happening
I understand...are the horrors described in the Revelation of St. John going to actually occur ?..all that fiery judgement ?...sometimes, in the Bible, God relents and does not bring judgement...I hope the trauma and tribulations described in Revelation do not take place..this poor world has seen so much horror and bloodshed...but I'm not God..it's not in my hands...,pray, seek God about it.
It's my opinion that the fiery judgement imagery particularly of Rev 14 is a call back to several scriptures in the Old Testament, particularly Isaiah 9, where "wickedness is like a fire." The "horrors" of Revelation being symbolic, are therefore to me not horrifying in the literal sense but still very serious.
I believe judgment will look much like the prodigal son, not a desirable form of "destruction" but nonetheless revelatory and productive.
Quote from: Seth on July 23, 2016, 06:56:09 AM
Quote from: darryl on July 22, 2016, 12:13:10 PM
Quote from: ask21771 on July 21, 2016, 08:26:33 AM
I mean the revelation of st. john happening
I understand...are the horrors described in the Revelation of St. John going to actually occur ?..all that fiery judgement ?...sometimes, in the Bible, God relents and does not bring judgement...I hope the trauma and tribulations described in Revelation do not take place..this poor world has seen so much horror and bloodshed...but I'm not God..it's not in my hands...,pray, seek God about it.
It's my opinion that the fiery judgement imagery particularly of Rev 14 is a call back to several scriptures in the Old Testament, particularly Isaiah 9, where "wickedness is like a fire." The "horrors" of Revelation being symbolic, are therefore to me not horrifying in the literal sense but still very serious.
I believe judgment will look much like the prodigal son, not a desirable form of "destruction" but nonetheless revelatory and productive.
yes..I too believe God's judgement is productive...even corrective
Quote from: joeteekay on July 23, 2016, 05:26:56 AM
Quote from: ask21771 on June 27, 2016, 05:40:04 AM
If it's already been proven that judgement day was supposed to happen long ago why do people still belive it's going to happen in the future
Judgement day can also be stated as the day of judgement. Day does not mean a 24 hour period IMO. There are two major judgements. One is now being experienced by the Elect. The other is to come on all the rest of humanity who never heard of Christ or never believed. That second one is the White Throne Judgement of the final age (eon).
The first is on us, the Saints - the Elect:
1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Jn_4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Eph_3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
We are being judged now in this life time during the age of grace in the loving hand of Christ our Saviour.
Eventually comes the White throne Judgement in the final eon when all the rest of humanity upon being resurrected will be judged by the righteous judge Jesus.
The throne He sits on is white, not black. Each will receive their just deserts. Some will receive a few stripes of chastisement and others a more severe chastening. Even though they will experience the second death, all will receive immortality at the consummation.
In today's mainstream theology "judgement day" is misunderstood and misapplied. God is Holy and good and always judges for the betterment of humanity.
Also:
Many Christians may consider Judgment Day to be the same as the Days of God's wrath. That is when God steps in at the end of this age to deal with rebellious humanity. They are not the same IMO.
Rev_6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
:iagree: :dsunny:
I agree. We are as Paul said, "Children of light, and we are to walk in the Day. As long as we stay in the light we have no fear of judgment day.
John 3:19
And this is the judgement, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil.
There wil come a time when the option of rejecting the light will be rescinded and everyone will stand in the "presence of the Lord" and the light will penetrate the adversaries until every knee has bowed and every tongue confessed that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
The day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night, but you are children of the light so the day should not take you like a thief
I personally believe the details of this are hidden behind the glass through which we see darkend images vaguely- but the principes are clear enough.
Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 7For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. 8But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.
Many people think this is speaking of the end times. I dont. I tthink it is talking about those who walk in darknes and those who walk in the light. Those who walk in darkness will experience destruction- apollea -. They deny the Day and deny the One and they declare "Peace and safety" as they walk in wickedness according to the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience.
"The son of man came to seek and save that which is lost(appoleia)"
Overcomers stay awake, walking in the light, children of the day, submitting them selves daily before the judgment seat of Christ.
Some sleep, and walk as dead men, even tho they have the life of Christ within, "For you are babes, and walk as natural men."
I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, 3for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? 4For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
This why (imo) Paul says, "Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after"(1 tim 5:24)
We are blessed if our sins are open beforehand, not hidden, so that we can confess and receive forgiveness and reconciliation. That is one benefit of walking in the light now, enduring chastisement now(for He scourges every son He receives), being disciplined by the Father "Today".
If we hide from His presence, we will be pried open anyway, and the light will penetrate everyone, and every hidden thing will be brought to light, because "His eyes are like flames of fire" and "His face is as the sun shining in its strength".
10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience. 12For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
The very same throne from which judgment proceeds, is the source of mercy and grace. We can be drawn to it or dragged to it, but all along the way, whatever correction there is, it is only flowing out to open doors of mercy to follow.
But who can outlast God? In either His judgment, which exists only to reveal the secrets of hearts and declare His justice, or in His mercy- which always waits like a crystal sea beyond the breakers of His discipline- living water for the broken.... only the broken may enter the Day, as Jesus opened the Way by being broken Himself and calls us to follow Him until every knee has bowed, every adversary gathered into one in Christ, every one in heaven and earth reconciled by the blood of His cross, until God is all in all.
"For I dwell in the high and holy place and with the one who has a broken and a contrite heart"......"a broken and a cntrite heart you will never cast out".
The Book of Revelation is hard to understand because it's a vision.. {Or rather is complicated, but not hard to understand?} ...as far as the vision concerning 'last days' that vision is the scroll, which scroll is unrolled and revealed by breaking seals which keep the scroll rolled up as is the manner historically, with scrolls, and communications, say from a king or anyone else, which they would seal the scroll, later writings in an envelope, with a wax seal perhaps with the king or person's ring pressed into the hot wax to make an image on the seal.
First - after the letters dictated to the "seven churches in Asia (showing trends in the early church, a furtherance of some of those things Paul and others most warned against?) - "on the Lord's day" it seems John has a vision in which he is told to come up (to the heavens) where he sees a scene in heaven of the scroll, and the lamb of God, who is the only one worthy to open the scroll.
Then comes the opening of the scroll.. With the breaking of the first four seals, in the vision come riding the notorious "four horsemen of the apocalypse". I can't help thinking the first seal broken begins the latter age, the years of our Lord, A.D., this horse is white and the rider wears a crown and is said to be going out (going forth?) conquering and to conquer.
Each horse continues his ride right up to the 'end'. (Surely?) And in the same way, the seals continue to the 'end' even as the trumpets continue their sounding to the 'end'. {Doesn't this seem to be the way? I can't envision it any other way. Although I guess the trumpets are announcements.. but I can't help thinking of the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse, the unveiling) as a sort of symphony and curtain openings and closings.. sometimes quickly.. many times not strictly in order. What a work of art it is!! This unveiling of what is(?)}
The 2nd horse and rider (and second seal) is a red horse called war. We are told this one is given a long (other translations, great) sword. {Er, hello? Can anyone say "Manhattan Project" and every advance from it?}
The 3rd horse follows, a black horse of weights and balance.. shortage.. it's ride/progression continuing to the end.. til a loaf of bread costs a day's wages. (Now there's inflation for ya.)
And also following war, is the 4th horseman of the apocalypse, the pale horse, which when all is said and done, kills one fourth of mankind (overall?). Sounds like pestilence (including chemical) and includes the black death, etc.. when they occurred.
The fifth seal is a vision of martyr's blood crying out to God.. At which is said, be patient.. martyrdom
The sixth seal - :Chinscratch: how to describe the 6th seal.. well, you read it.. Taking into account that the description is a blend of its first and its last, and maybe in between for all I know. (And not necessarily in order. :smile: ) It sounds to me like that long sword which was given to war.
"And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and lo, a great earthquake came, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood,
13 and the stars of the heaven fell to the earth -- as a fig-tree doth cast her winter figs, by a great wind being shaken --
14 and heaven departed as a scroll rolled up, and every mountain and island -- out of their places they were moved;
15 and the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chiefs of thousands, and the mighty, and every servant, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens, and in the rocks of the mountains," (including the bomb shelters of the 50's and 60's?)
"16 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, `Fall upon us, and hide us from the face of Him who is sitting upon the throne, and from the anger of the Lamb,'
17 because come did the great day of His anger, and who is able to stand?" [niv]
And look what happens next! The wind is held back (Rev 7:1). A pause of it while the servants of God are sealed on their foreheads. A large crowd uncountable from every nation, tribe and tongue, and 144,000 from Israel.
And so a great curtain closes for Jesus said to Jerusalem "you will not SEE ME again, until you say 'blessed is He, Who comes in the name of the LORD." - At which time, I take this to mean, they will see Jesus, "coming on the clouds and every eye shall see Him and He will send out His angels to gather His elect from one end under heaven to the other". Mt. 24:29-31 (The judgment day of believers? gathered as one of the sheep? or to armageddon as still a goat? thus to the 2nd resurrection, initially not as joyful as the 1st one of all believers, for these ones rise still in their sins)
And Paul wrote, "If Israel's falling away is salvation to the nations" (the gospel to gentiles) "what will their gathering be but life from the dead?" - Resurrection? The. Which as we know occurs when Jesus returns and His long 2nd advent begins, the 1st resurrection, that is; the 2nd resurrection occurring 1000 years later - "and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years are finished" Rev 20:5.
Which brings us to "Judgment Day"! which immediately follows the 2nd resurrection, the resurrection of all those not yet saved..
from Revelation 20:7-15
when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive.. was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast (world body/big beast rev 13:1-10, not 11-18) and the false prophet (theory of evolution) are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. aionian/ageduring/agesduring
The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone (still? by then?) not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." [End of chapter.]
Commentary on verse 15 is totally my own (as far as I know). I think of Judgment 'day' as an age of a great review of all human history.. Of which all in heaven and earth will witness. He is writing His law on every heart and mind. His law is love, which is outflowing, selfishness is inflowing and is imperfection the opposite to God/Life/Perfection. But the rescue was built in "from the beginning". This learning of good from evil is unavoidable, unless He never create rational creatures. Apocalypse - man's nations and empires, including last days global $ity empire, if not built on the Rock, cannot endure. Same lesson each individual is learning. It's the same lesson individually and collectively. God is life, can't have life without Life.
All my :2c: worth of course.
I drew a picture of how I envision judgment 'day'/age, a shadow of which, i believe, was ancient Israel's Day of Atonement (10 days after trumpets, and 5 days before Tabernacles :wink1: ) - http://gospel-truth4all.blogspot.com/2016/01/his-great-plan-of-salvation.html
P.S. - After the pause of Revelation chapter 7:1 and its description-7:2-8:6, the 7th seal on the scroll is broken open, which is the 7 trumpets. The 7 trumpets are what make up the 7th seal. After the pause, things escalate? and intensify? resulting in global governance? [7 yr. 'peace']/ drought,wars,rumors of wars/battles/Joel's smoky day and red moon? 5 months of marshall law? 666 apparatus runs for 45 days?-Dn 12:11-12 -- In the 7th trumpet are the 7 bowls/vials which I sort of believe are concurrent.. that long sword again, as is 13:13 (imo) by the 'little' beast.
:Peace2: :smile: