Who here is an ex-catholic?

[sparrow]

just curious...
(I was never catholic, but I may need to pm an ex-catholic a question or two in the near future.)
sorry, I don't mean to be so vague.   :grin:

[ChuckK3]

Birdie,

    I was raised a Catholic, but left the church when I was 20.  I never really believed much of what they taught, particularly their definition of Holy Communion.  Feel free to PM me with your Catholic questions and I'll try to answer them as best as I can.

    And, uh, don't worry about being too vague. :smile:

Chuck

[AbbasChild]

Yep, sign me up!

My family is still roman-catholic and most germans in our area are.

[Nancy]

Hi there Sparrow,
Yes, I was brought up as a catholic and i absolutely loved it. I was very religious.  I still love the beautiful language and pictures. The prayers can seem to be filled with fear with words such as 'O most Holy Savior, have mercy on my soul', etc. But then i believe most of the famous mystics were catholics!
Godbless
Nancy

[RoseOfSharon]

I'm an ex-catholic too, but don't bother asking me any questions on that matter....my family stopped going to church when I was 11.  It was a very long time before I started to explore my faith again.  When I was looking into churches...well...the one thing I DID know is that I didn't want to go back to the Catholic church.  I never even opened up a bible until I started attending a Baptist church!

Good luck on your quest.   :icon_flower:

[hopeful]

My husband was a Catholic.  (Does that count?)   :Sparkletooth:
It certainly had an effect on my life. 
He was what they call a staunch Catholic until he was 26 years old- the same year I met him. 
Even after he left the Catholic tradition, he still lived under a consistent cloud of "I hope I don't go to hell." 
When he was delivered from that fear- he became a new man!  Thank you, Lord!

:HeartThrob:

[Redkora]

*raises hand* Yep. When I wasn't terrified that I was headed to Hell, I was into the mysticism of it. It was awesome when I wasn't having severe scruples.

[shibboleth]

Well, I never was a Catholic, but I grew up in the Episcopal church, which is a half Catholic and half Protestant. We used catechisms and had prayer benches and did the sign of the cross before when we came into the church building. The priests or fathers wore special vestments and candles were lit every Sunday by accolate boys. Baptism and communion were about the same....we used one cup and had to go forward to receive communion.

We didn't use the rosary, pray for saints or dead people or have a confessional. But, the Catholic, Lutheran, and Episcopal churches all have similar rituals and teachings. :sigh:

[martincisneros]

I don't want to hijack this thread onto a different flow.  I too am very curious about who is an ex-Catholic or a currently practicing Catholic that comes with some regularity to these boards for my own reasons, which I'll briefly outline below:


I'm in the midst of a bit of a crisis of faith where I'm sorta leaning towards Catholicism.  The issues that I had to resolve for myself, from a Protestant background, have been obvious:

1).  the misconception of Mary, saints, and statues, as though there were idolatry, Mary and saint worship, when they're generally simply viewed as members of Christ's Body for whom the bonds of death have been forever shattered by Christ, just the same as for us.  So, they request their intercessions in the same way that I might ask anyone at these boards to pray for me.  And the statues are a Hebrews 11 reminder of those that have gone before as faithful to the Lord; a reminder that if God's grace was sufficient for them, then it's sufficient for me.

2).  transsubstantiation often being thought to be a resacrificing of Christ when in reality it's a reliving in the way that Jews celebrate the Passover as though they themselves were the Jews being delivered from Egypt under Moses.

3).  vows of poverty, which seem to be an embracing of the curse of disobedience to God and a denial of a significant portion of the Crucifixion, which among other things was to annihilate poverty. (Cf. 2Corinthians 8:9)

4).  obviously the prayer beads issue.


I'm not bothered by vows of celebacy, because both Jesus and Paul said that if you're capable of doing it, it has it's advantages.  The beads and the vows of poverty are my two remaining issues that are keeping me from becoming Catholic.  Some could say that it would mean following in the traditions of Augustine and Aquinas, but to be a so-called Protestant doesn't necessitate following the pagan thinking of Luther and Calvin, in those areas where their thinking was deficient in knowledge of the Word.  I'm named after "St. Martin de Porres," and certain similarities have been emerging between myself and him over the last few years -- although I never knew his life's story until this year when I got tweaked about learning a bit about who I'm named after.  A lot of the things that I've experienced, that I've prayed for, and that have become convictions were convictions to him -- and again, I was never a student of his life until this year when I started trying to find all that I could find about him on www.google.com and www.search.com

Part of me is wanting to follow certain things that I've been growing in and towards to their logical conclusions and manifestations, and I'm wrestling with what part in all of this madness that I'm compelled to call "my life" by forces beyond my control is something that could be nurtured by more of an association with Catholicism, although I'm currently an unfaithful member of a local Charismatic Church that I'm really bad about showing up at for services.

My "crisis" can be resolved by starting my own Church, where I could incorporate the areas of Catholicism that are most meaningful to me, while still preserving a very strong Holy Spirit emphasis, liberty of ongoing growth and of conscience, stronger emphasis on the Scriptures, and other so-called Protestant distinctives.  I don't know what I'm thinking/feeling a lot of times.  I see elements of beauty that I'm embracing from Scripture that are the furthest thing from "Protestant," and yet, I'm aware of some of the reasons why many people leave Catholicism and become so-called "Protestants."

While it's not Universally applicable, there are individual congregations within Catholicism that take their appreciation of Mary and other saints throughout history to the level of worship, just like you can find snake handlers and other horrible and downright funny things in some "Protestant" churches.

[AbbasChild]

Hi Martin,
I was going through a similar time about five years ago. In Germany the catholic church is supported by means of the state and now that I left it I am almost an outcast. It doesn't really matter here if you are a practicing catholic, you can even be a witch, as long as your name is on the paper and you pay church-tax you can get a job in every catholic institution- and there are many here in the Black Forrest.

These days I neither see myself as a protestant nor a catholic and I've come to see that Father's remant comes from all kind of backgrounds. I especially enjoyed a lot of the christian mystics, that almost all of them were catholic. You probably already had a look at Francis of Assis (preaching the Gospel to the animals. And in my early charismatic days I enjoyed the writings of Francis MacNutt.

A lot of the things you mentioned I see the same way and I think some protestant interpretaions of them are way off. I believe that Father is doing a new thing in the earth that's far bigger than protestantism or catholicism, even though we can still find remnants of truth in both of them. The same is true for the eastern orthodox branches.

[autoimmune]

just curious...
(I was never catholic, but I may need to pm an ex-catholic a question or two in the near future.)
sorry, I don't mean to be so vague.   :grin:

I remember being taught as a child that there is no such thing as an ex-catholic because at baptism we receive an indelible mark on the soul.  Once a Catholic, always a Catholic.  So, I call myself a non-practicing Catholic :)

I left the Church in my mid-30's. I was in my last semester of theology when I realized I didn't have faith in many of the doctrines I would soon be "defending" with that degree.

Over the last 25 years God has led me on an interesting journey through the study of many different faiths.  I have always interpreted the gospel as the way of non-violence, always experienced God as Love, followed the Catholic contemplative prayer path (that Catholic mysticism others have noted does seem to bring a lot of us to the UR interpretation of scriptures), so it was natural for me to search out scriptural and apochryphal mentions of UR.

Anyway, I left the Catholic church with a great deal of sadness, but I felt it was hypocritical to receive the Eucharist when I didn't fully accept many of the doctrines underlying it.

A few years ago God began providing the answers to the questions I had began asking 25 years ago.  About three years ago I very happily began calling myself Christian again.  And, since then, I've been strongly called to return to the Catholic Church again, primarily because of Jesus' words in John that He is the Bread of Life (Eucharist).

One of the few things, however, keeping me from returning to Catholicism is what seems to be the conflict between hell and UR. I easily accept purgatory, and even stretch it a bit to conceive of it being the purging place Jesus mentions in the gospels, but I can't get past the understanding that all means all or God is powerless to do as He says . . . so, I'll be more than happy to chat with others who are questioning if there is some way to reconcile Catholic doctrine with UR.

pax,
--autoimmune

[fullarmor2]

I was never a member,  but I would like to say that I admire certain things in Catholic life.  I admire how that Catholics have a very special or unique way in which they view Jesus.  Its hard to put into words,  they really seem to reverence Jesus in a very special way and there is a certain level of intimacy in that.  Its neat how this is in spite of doctrinal issues or whatever.

[autoimmune]

I was never a member,  but I would like to say that I admire certain things in Catholic life.  I admire how that Catholics have a very special or unique way in which they view Jesus.  Its hard to put into words,  they really seem to reverence Jesus in a very special way and there is a certain level of intimacy in that.  Its neat how this is in spite of doctrinal issues or whatever.

Thank you fullarmor2.  It can get depressing sometimes how many sola scriptura Christians actually hate and fear the Catholic Church.  I was on another forum this morning where that was happening.  FTR, they also were bashing UR Christians.  I left without saying anything, even though I felt God urging me to respond to some of the blatant fallacies about each that I had read.  I just wasn't certain if it was my ego or the Spirit that was "fluttering" around inside of me, urging me to respond :)

The difference that you mention probably comes from the Catholic view on the Eucharist.  The belief that this is the actual and real presence of Christ goes beyond anything I could say about it.  It is truly becoming one with Christ in a physical way that far surpasses the mental prayers and spiritual exercises we go through in trying to "digest the Word" and become one with Him through scripture. 

I've been struggling with that for the last year or so.  Jesus tells us that the food for the Body of Christ is His Body and His Blood.  He didn't tiptoe around the issue and, in fact, many of His followers left Him after He revealed that He was the true Bread from Heaven, that the manna the Israelites were literally fed on for 40 years was but a foreshadowing of what was to come through Him.

My difficulty lies in getting past the fact that I would have to submit a divorce to the magesterium for decision.  I cannot see how the "organized religion" part of the Catholic Church has any decision-making abilities over the social aspects of being Christian or not.

Not sure that makes sense, but for me to begin practicing my faith as a Catholic Christian again, I'd have to willingly submit to the authority of the Church.  I left when I came to believe that organized religion was not the same as the Body of Christ.  I now recognize the two can (and do) co-exist, but I'm not sure how to participate in one while denying the other.

ME

[martincisneros]

......I was on another forum this morning where that was happening.  FTR, they also were bashing UR Christians.  I left without saying anything, even though I felt God urging me to respond to some of the blatant fallacies about each that I had read.  I just wasn't certain if it was my ego or the Spirit that was "fluttering" around inside of me, urging me to respond :)

It's usually the Holy Spirit that'll tell a believer to keep the truth to themselves in that kind of environment where so-called Christians aren't hungry for the next level, but are content to throw stones at everyone not on their supposed level.  Isaiah 53 says that Jesus did not open His mouth in His own defense when the Pharisees were condemning Him over their religious interpretations.  St. Peter said to be ready to give an answer to those that ASK about the hope within you.  If they're not asking, then you're not obligated towards them.  This is a different matter entirely from evangelism.  This is concerning those who think that they see, but whose sin remains.

The difference that you mention probably comes from the Catholic view on the Eucharist.  The belief that this is the actual and real presence of Christ goes beyond anything I could say about it.  It is truly becoming one with Christ in a physical way that far surpasses the mental prayers and spiritual exercises we go through in trying to "digest the Word" and become one with Him through scripture. 

I've been struggling with that for the last year or so.  Jesus tells us that the food for the Body of Christ is His Body and His Blood.  He didn't tiptoe around the issue and, in fact, many of His followers left Him after He revealed that He was the true Bread from Heaven, that the manna the Israelites were literally fed on for 40 years was but a foreshadowing of what was to come through Him.

Jesus Christ IS in the Bread and the Cup.  Were it not for the vows of poverty which I totally cannot agree with, and the question mark of how far that veneration of Mary is taken in some circles, I'd of become a Catholic priest this decade.  Most of the criticisms of Catholicism is based upon old books that are based upon even older books about issues that the Catholic Church had decades and centuries ago.  No fellowship's going to be 100% perfect per the unspoken rules of the outspoken Pharisee about any kind of formalized fellowship.  The forbiding of Catholic priests from marrying is another thing that must go.  It doesn't go back to earliest traditions of the Church.  It goes back to like the 11th century or something like that when the Catholic Church wanted to protect it's property from inheritance issues with kids when the priest in question would die.  There's evidence that baby steps are being taken to get back to the concept of the Biblical blessing and away from the vows of poverty that came in through Constantine's fear of Christians operating in Covenant blessings.  The current Pope has requested the ordination of a number of ministers from the Word of Faith movement as Anglican ministers ('cause they were married) so that they could minister to Charismatic Catholics their understanding of the Abrahamic Covenant and it's relevance for Christians today for the meeting of every single need and the furtherance of the Gospel through Jesus Christ.

.......I left when I came to believe that organized religion was not the same as the Body of Christ.  I now recognize the two can (and do) co-exist, but I'm not sure how to participate in one while denying the other.

Organized religion and the Body of Christ will always be merged as one for as long as there's yet an unconverted soul on the planet, and other large scale needs that require a formalized compact and merging of resources towards the meeting of those needs.  Organizations are only as valuable or as much of a liability as they are depending upon the quality of the people involved and whether or not they maintain a Spirit-filled life that's strong in the Word.  When an organization requires an honest Icabod to be written above the door, then God will simply reform individuals within the skeleton of the old organization as well as bring transformation to people outside of the organization and from that mixture He'll lead the formation of a new organization that'll listen to Him for whatever duration that they'll actually listen to Him for the accomplishment of His purposes -- which is usually the 20 to 60 years of remaining life of the founders of the organization before a new generation arises that "knew not Joseph" and He's got to start all over again with a new gang not connected to the former organization.  This is one of those situations where the children of this world are wiser than the children of light because too many who genuinely could make a difference are content to scream about any kind of organization rather than to get involved and get something done.  I usually tell folks that if you don't like any of the Churches out there, then study the Word very deeply for 3 to 5 years until you know a few basics and then start your own Church -- but for the sake of the Anointing don't isolate perpetually from people and from touching your community!  Active promoters of perpetual isolationism really don't have the love of God in their hearts.  There are honest to God seasons that may even take up to a decade, depending on how thick someone's head is that the Holy Spirit is trying to remould for His purposes, but islands have buried talents for which they'll answer for.  Scripture calls them foolish virgins.

As far as an old organization like the Catholic Church where you're only going to see slow incremental reformations with the Word of God and the Spirit of Christ throughout, just simply pray for all of the Catholic Churches in your area that they'd be based on the Word of God in all areas of faith and practice.  Pray that any of the priests that aren't willing to walk by the Word of God and aren't listening to the Holy Spirit within them about how things are to be carried out in your community, that they'd simply be removed by Jesus Christ, Who is the Head of the Church, and that men of Wisdom, men of the Book, men of prayer, and men filled with the Holy Spirit would be brought in by the Catholic Church so that the flock of God won't go uncared for in your area.  A lot of people sincerely do need that personal guidance from the clergy.  All of us ought to be praying this for all of the ministers in our cities -- whether they're Catholic or Nondenominational, that they'd either get it right and keep it on the Book and the Holy Spirit or that they'd be relieved of duty by Jesus Christ our Head and replaced by men of humility that sincerely tremble at each of His Words.  Religious organizations are simply groups of people that are in charge of resources and the accomplishment of a series of duties in the behalf of the community, the state, the country, and/or the world.  Each person is accountable to Jesus Christ, and should be held accountable to Jesus Christ through prayer that His will would be done and not that of carnal, untransformed flesh.

[Reverend G]

I was raised Catholic, served as an altar boy, for many years, and came from a marginally Catholic family.  I say marginal in that some were devout, all believed in God, but most just ignored the parts of Catholicism that they disagreed with.

Papal infallibility was a big issue for me, and if I were to return to an organized church, I would likely opt for an Orthodox or Lutheran denomination.  I have attended services from both denominations, and must say the Orthodox church impressed me.  True, they still have icons and such, but their tenets seemed more "real world" to me.  They frown on divorce, yet allow it.  They encourage celibacy among the clergy, yet allow married men to answer the call. 

A friend had a neighbor who was a married Russian Orthodox priest, and I once had a girlfriend who belonged to the Orthodox religion, hence my exposure.  Lutherans seem to have some similar ideas, man is fallible, but should not be condemned for his failings. 

[martincisneros]

....I have attended services from both denominations, and must say the Orthodox church impressed me.  True, they still have icons and such, but their tenets seemed more "real world" to me.  They frown on divorce, yet allow it.  They encourage celibacy among the clergy, yet allow married men to answer the call.

Really?  I simply must attend some services then!  I'd requested about a year ago to be placed on the mailing list of one of their congregations and have liked what I've seen thus far.  Hmmm...  I wonder if that's on philosophical terms as some of the other Churches that have liberalized about it, or if they recognize that divorce and remarriage according to 1Corinthians 7:27-28 isn't a sin.  Jesus did say some things to Old Testament Jews prior to His crucifixion about how to read the Mosaic Law that's tripped up a few people about this subject.  I've seen a lot of Christians given excessive grief over circumstances that were way beyond their control along these lines, and ministers even totally thrown out of the ministry by their denominations over the denomination's mixing of the public teachings of the 4 Gospels with New Covenant grace without any prayer and discernment to keep it consistent with the whole of the New Testament on the subject of divorce and remarriage and other subjects. 

Here's a good rule of thumb:  If it was said pre-crucifixion, tread softly/cautiously on applications of it to yourself and to others.  Lots of O.T. things emphatically do apply to us and much of what's in the 4 Gospels, but the 4 Gospels are essentially the last 4 books of the Old Testament BECAUSE the New Testament is in the Blood of Christ.  The 4 Gospels bridge the covenant agreements between God and man; between a person's obligation to Moses and a person's obligation to the Holy Spirit in this eon.  Jesus preached BOTH Moses and what was coming through His own shed Blood and if you don't discern which is which, then you can bring a lot of unnecessary harm to yourself and those that you care about.  Even the parables are Mosaic law, the end of the Jewish dispensation, or a platform for the Kingdom age that we've been in ever since the Holy Spirit began to be poured out from the ascended and seated Lord and Messiah.  Jesus spoke to both the past and the future in His ministry, being a good scribe of the Kingdom that was bringing out of His treasures things both Old and New.  Not everyone who heard Him preach got healed, so Jesus knew very well that some people who heard Him preach were going to die as both Torah and Leaven observant Jews that hadn't experienced the life that He came to bring.  So He addressed them accordingly as the final prophet of the Old Testament.

A lot of people think that Catholics are the only ones holding to doctrines, traditions, and relics that have got to go, but I think all of us are in a season -- whether Catholic or Nondenominational of having to re-evaluate everything we've ever heard the Lord say, and to lay it before Him and ask Him to clarify it for us even further and to refine us further until we're 100% ABSOLUTELY SURE that none of us have any religious venom on our lips.  A lot of things that are in the form of venom aren't necessarily what you'd hear in Church or on Christian television, but simply attitudes that because certain aspects of the Word of God required additional growth on our part, and we weren't growing as quickly as we intended to, then we came back barking at the Scriptural insight as being the Leaven of the Scribes and Pharisees -- when in reality, hope really doesn't bring shame as we press and press and press against our flesh, to not be a debtor to it, and to receive the nectar of the love of God into our hearts from the Holy Spirit.

Interesting how in Romans 5 the hope that doesn't bring shame winds up being the hope of UR, huh?  The rest of the chapter is about all that were in Adam when he did what he did, and all that were in the heart of Christ when He did what He did.

I'm totally tormented right now by the adequacy of the love of God and by the inadequacy of my words about it right now.  All that matters to me right now is if life continues to break my flesh with this or that, is Jesus Christ really being seen in me in every word and action on my part from day to day?  Absolutely nothing else matters to me any more.  Nothing.  Nothing personal.  Nothing need related.  Nothing from the past or the future.  All I care about any more is that if people see me, or if people see one of you -- have they seen Jesus today?

[Reverend G]

From what I understood of the Orthodox clergy, a priest cannot marry, but a married man may become a priest...not certain however.  I also believe that if an Orthodox priest becomes divorced or widowed, that he  cannot remarry.  Also, from my understanding, the Orthodox church will only sanction 3 marriages for any one person, as a result of divorce.  Sort of a 3 strikes rule.  It makes sense to me.  I can't claim to be sure of these things, perhaps someone here has been part of the Orthodox church, and could verify or correct my claims?

[Universalist Catholic]

I would not consider myself necessarily an Ex-Catholic, but I am pretty much a Cafeteria Catholic, and I dont care if the Pope does not like it.  But about a year ago, I got involved in Fundamentalist Catholicism,(Simply a rigid dogmatic form of Catholicism).  I hated being part of this strict form of Catholicism, due to all the dumb rules, dogma, along with their whole attitude that their religion was better than all the other religions, and their rites were supreme to every other right out there.  The biggest problem I had was dealing with the doctrine of Hell. 
1.  A single Mortal sin can lead you off to hell.  What? for having an impure thought? gossipping too much? telling a lie? How on earth does that lead to eternal torment? 
2.  That the only way to get a mortal sin absolved was to go through a priest.  First off, why could not God absolve us himself.  He is all powerful, let alone where does it say so in the bible?
3.  What if someone died unexpectedly?  So they did not get to live real long to repent of their sins, but if they had just a couple more years or decades, they would have changed.  That would make Gods plan flawed.  He has no other choice, because that person just so happened to die at the wrong time, and in the wrong state seals our eternal fate.
4.  If someone could repent at anytime during their life, why does it all the sudden end as soon as the person dies? 
5.  How can his mercy be more powerful than his anger if once someone is in heaven, they dont need anymore mercy, and purgatory the time of mercy would have to conclude, and then only leave over eternal wrath. 
6.  How could Hell possibly be beneficial?  It would not please God in anyway to see us in everlasting torment.  It would not be heaven for anyone having to watch their friends and family suffer. 
7.  If someone has free will, how can they really be free if their only other choice was a prison of unending torments.  No one would choose that.  Maybe wealth, to come back as a ghost, be a hooker, or a player, have a kingdom, but a place of Torments? I dont think so.  Thats like saying someone has freedom, but if they dont do what they are supposed to, off to life in prison.
8.  Hell would mean God failed, considering he has no pleasure out of the destruction of sinners.  If he had set it up in a way that you had until your death, or your eternal destiny was sealed, than that would mean a flaw in the plan. 
9.  If there were sinners so evil beyond repentance, would it not be better to just kill them, and take them out of their misery than force them to stay there forever and ever.