What would god do in this hypothetical situation?

[nes]

What would god do in this hypothetical situation?

Let's say you were to call on god, the father to come. 
God does come without showing love.
But you don't desire anything.
God then asks you,"What do you want?"
And you don't answer and still desire nothing.

So what do you think would happen next?

[jabcat]

Sorry, but I can't "play along" with this, and here's why;  I don't see it as a plausible scenario.  I'm guessing you have a definite point in mind, but here are my thoughts;

Anything God does is based on love, because He IS love;

and anyone in the direct Presence of God will be changed.  Not because of a puny human's own desires or lack thereof*, but because of Who HE Is**.


*God places faith, desire, the will to do in each of us, as and when it suits His purposes (Romans 9:16, Eph. 2:8)

**Alpha, Omega, Beginning/End - Author AND Finisher of our faith 

[nes]

Sorry, but I can't "play along" with this, and here's why;  I don't see it as a plausible scenario.  I'm guessing you have a definite point in mind, but here are my thoughts;

Anything God does is based on love, because He IS love;

and anyone in the direct Presence of God will be changed.  Not because of a puny human's own desires or lack thereof*, but because of Who HE Is**.

So what part of the scenario isn't based on love?  Where does it say that what God does is based on love because he is love?  Where in the bible does it say that anyone in the direct presence of God will be changed?

What about the pharisees?  Weren't they in direct presence of god?

*God places faith, desire, the will to do in each of us, as and when it suits His purposes (Romans 9:16, Eph. 2:8)

**Alpha, Omega, Beginning/End - Author AND Finisher of our faith 

I don't think that romans 9:16, eph. 2:8 says that.

Ephesians 2:8
8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

eph. says that grace is the gift of god, not faith.  It's not your own doing because god saved you, not you.

romans 9:16
So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

Romans 9:16 says that being given the gift of god doesn't depend on human will or exertion, but god's mercy instead.

[micah7:9]

I dont get your point. God IS love, and should He come then He has a reason and love would be involved.
Should God come and ask you what you want he has a purpose, for He knows what you may want or not want. Your question seems rather empty.

[nes]

I dont get your point. God IS love, and should He come then He has a reason and love would be involved.
Should God come and ask you what you want he has a purpose, for He knows what you may want or not want. Your question seems rather empty.

So you don't want to take a shot and tell me what you think would happen next in this situation?

[CHB]

What would god do in this hypothetical situation?

Let's say you were to call on god, the father to come. 
God does come without showing love.

If God IS love, how could he not show it?

But you don't desire anything.
God then asks you,"What do you want?"
And you don't answer and still desire nothing.

So what do you think would happen next?

God does what he thinks is best for his children since he loves us much more than our earthly fathers do. He wouldn't give us what we desire if it wasn't in our best intrest.

What do you think would happen?

CHB

[nes]

If God IS love, how could he not show it?

Just because god doesn't show love doesn't mean that god doesn't love somebody.

God does what he thinks is best for his children since he loves us much more than our earthly fathers do. He wouldn't give us what we desire if it wasn't in our best intrest.

What do you think would happen?

CHB

Where does it say that god does what he thinks is best for his children?  Just because god loves us much more than our earthy fathers do doesn't mean that god does what he thinks is best for his children.  Are you saying that he wouldn't give us what we desire if it wasn't in the best interest of our flesh?

[jabcat]

I believe hypotheticals that are inconsistent with stated and revealed scripture cannot be satisfactorily "solved".  To attempt to do so is not fruitful.

If one were intent on believing something else, they will likely have problems believing this ; 

"....faith is not of our doing for that would be a works-based salvation and we know from Eph 2:8, 9 that salvation is surely not from works.  However Eph 2:8 says something else that I never hear proclaimed and that is "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." In Eph 2:8 the "it" refers back to faith, which is consistent with Rom 12:3 (God gives to each a measure of the enabling power of God.)  If we must muster up our own faith then justification is by works and again we know that is not correct. We also see in Heb 12:2 that " ...Jesus is the author and perfecter of faith." which fits in nicely with what we have already seen. Jesus is not only the author -- the originator of faith --; He is also the one who perfects it in us.

Livingtheology.com"

[nes]

I believe hypotheticals that are inconsistent with stated and revealed scripture cannot be satisfactorily "solved".  To attempt to do so is not fruitful.

If one were intent on believing something else, they will likely have problems believing this ; 

"....faith is not of our doing for that would be a works-based salvation and we know from Eph 2:8, 9 that salvation is surely not from works.  However Eph 2:8 says something else that I never hear proclaimed and that is "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." In Eph 2:8 the "it" refers back to faith, which is consistent with Rom 12:3 (God gives to each a measure of the enabling power of God.)  If we must muster up our own faith then justification is by works and again we know that is not correct. We also see in Heb 12:2 that " ...Jesus is the author and perfecter of faith." which fits in nicely with what we have already seen. Jesus is not only the author -- the originator of faith --; He is also the one who perfects it in us.

Livingtheology.com"

So what makes my hypothetical example not possible?
How exactly is my hypothetical example not consistent with scripture?

Didn't you see the example?  The person is already a believer.  The believer didn't ask god to come to be saved.

[CHB]

nes, what jabcat said.  :happy3:

CHB

[nes]

nes, what jabcat said.  :happy3:

CHB

Where did I say in my hypothetical example that the person was calling god to come to be saved?  I didn't.

[legoman]

What would god do in this hypothetical situation?

Let's say you were to call on god, the father to come. 
God does come without showing love.
But you don't desire anything.
God then asks you,"What do you want?"
And you don't answer and still desire nothing.

So what do you think would happen next?

Hi nes,

Your scenario here is a bit vague and perhaps not plausible as others have suggested...

Are you suggesting God is not omnipresent (everywhere) or omniscient (all-knowing)?
What do you mean God comes without showing love?
God would already know that the person calling out desires nothing... but God would be able to influence a person's desires as He sees fit.

What is the point you are trying to make?  Knowing that would probably make the conversation flow a bit better.

[micah7:9]

I consider your hypothetical to be sureal and not at all in anyway in touch with what God and His salvation is all about. Please if you are serious about your questions I would suggest change in how you consider God and His salvation? I still do not understand the basis of you question, when you have time, continue. Peace and Love

Very well put Legoman!  :grin:

[nes]

Hi nes,

Your scenario here is a bit vague and perhaps not plausible as others have suggested...

Are you suggesting God is not omnipresent (everywhere) or omniscient (all-knowing)?

What made you think I was suggesting that?

Just because God asks questions doesn't mean he's not all knowing.  (Genesis 3:9,11,13)

What do you mean God comes without showing love?

I should've been more specific on this.
The same way jesus loved this man in Mark 10:21.
Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

[jabcat]

First of all, I'm confused about many things, many things I don't know, and I often miss the mark.  Also, I can't judge anyone.

That said, what Jesus told a pre-cross Jew, having to do with knowing Him in that time period prior to their judgment, are not requirements for our salvation (those of us post-cross in the age of grace, the grafting in of the Gentiles).

Again, there are many things I don't know, but please rightly divide the Law with the age of grace (the grafting in of the Gentiles),  pre-cross teachings (Jesus' earthly ministry about the earthly kingdom) with post-cross teachings and events (Paul taking the gospel to us), the judgments in 70 AD with "eternal" consequences, etc.  IMO, not doing so accounts for much confusion.

[micah7:9]

I am not sure what you just said. Where did that come from? I m sorry.

[jabcat]

LOL, I  know what I meant   :laugh2:.  Here's what I'm addressing;

I've seen talk of following the Law for salvation, now selling one's possession (apparently?) as a requirement  for salvation.  I'm just saying we need to try to be as aware as possible as to who Jesus was primarily addressing and about what?  He was talking to this Jewish man prior to His death and resurrection - still in the age of Law, and about knowing Him in that age (with the impending judgment of Israel in 70 AD - IMO).

I believe not separating/not understanding (rightly dividing) those things causes much confusion for us personally, and for the church in general.   :2c:

We're saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves... blessings.

[nes]

LOL, I  know what I meant   :laugh2:.  Here's what I'm addressing;

I've seen talk of following the Law for salvation, now selling one's possession (apparently?) as a requirement  for salvation.  I'm just saying we need to try to be as aware as possible as to who Jesus was primarily addressing and about what?  He was talking to this Jewish man prior to His death and resurrection - still in the age of Law, and about knowing Him in that age (with the impending judgment of Israel in 70 AD - IMO).

I believe not separating/not understanding (rightly dividing) those things causes much confusion for us personally, and for the church in general.   :2c:

We're saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves... blessings.

You wanted clarification on what I meant by god "showing love". 

Only the underlined portion of the verse is what I would consider god "showing love".

Mark 10:21
Jesus looked at him and loved him...

You can forget the rest of the verse.  And I consider the word "loved" used in this verse an action that jesus took.

[thinktank]

What would god do in this hypothetical situation?

Let's say you were to call on god, the father to come. 
God does come without showing love.
But you don't desire anything.
God then asks you,"What do you want?"
And you don't answer and still desire nothing.

So what do you think would happen next?

Hypothetically, the question makes no sense.

The very act of calling upon God shows that the person did desire something on some level.

Maybe they are a skeptic and demand proof of Gods existence, but if that is the case, God showed up, then their desire would be fullfiled somewhat.

Please answer why would anyone call upon God if they had no desire of anything?

But if you are trying to say what would happen, if a person only desired God's companionship and did not desire e.g material riches, sucess or powers etc etc

Then my answer is that the person would be content and happy knowing that God granted their hearts desire to see him somewhat. But if he decided to show up without a warm presence and it is truly God, then it is very likely that the person would be affraid, as seen in the bible. Afterward the person must evaluate whether that was God or not.

[legoman]

What would god do in this hypothetical situation?

Let's say you were to call on god, the father to come. 
God does come without showing love.
But you don't desire anything.
God then asks you,"What do you want?"
And you don't answer and still desire nothing.

So what do you think would happen next?

Hypothetically, the question makes no sense.

The very act of calling upon God shows that the person did desire something on some level.

Maybe they are a skeptic and demand proof of Gods existence, but if that is the case, God showed up, then their desire would be fullfiled somewhat.

Please answer why would anyone call upon God if they had no desire of anything?

But if you are trying to say what would happen, if a person only desired God's companionship and did not desire e.g material riches, sucess or powers etc etc

Then my answer is that the person would be content and happy knowing that God granted their hearts desire to see him somewhat. But if he decided to show up without a warm presence and it is truly God, then it is very likely that the person would be affraid, as seen in the bible. Afterward the person must evaluate whether that was God or not.

Indeed, excellent point thinktank!

[legoman]

Hi nes,

Your scenario here is a bit vague and perhaps not plausible as others have suggested...

Are you suggesting God is not omnipresent (everywhere) or omniscient (all-knowing)?

What made you think I was suggesting that?

Just because God asks questions doesn't mean he's not all knowing.  (Genesis 3:9,11,13)

Thanks for clarifying that.  It just sounded that way in the OP, but now I see what you meant a bit better.

What do you mean God comes without showing love?

I should've been more specific on this.
The same way jesus loved this man in Mark 10:21.
Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Why would God not love someone who called on Him?

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved...
Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

And as thinktank said, it doesn't make sense that someone with no desire would call on God.

Your hypothetical is just that - hypothetical - vague and improbable.
Perhaps you can just say what the point is you were trying to make?

[Beloved Servant]

Calling on the Name of the Lord
THE PRACTICE OF CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD:


In the Old Testament:

    ENOSH
    Genesis 4:26 To Seth, to him also a son was born; and he called his name Enosh. Then [men] began to call upon the name of the LORD.

    JOB
    Job 12:4 "I am a joke to my friends, The one who called on God and He answered him; The just [and] blameless [man] is a joke.

    ABRAHAM
    Genesis 12:8 Then he proceeded from there to the mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, with Bethel on the west and Ai on the east; and there he built an altar to the LORD and called upon the name of the LORD.

    ISAAC
    Genesis 26:25 So he built an altar there and called upon the name of the LORD, and pitched his tent there; and there Isaac's servants dug a well.

    MOSES AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL
    Deuteronomy 4:7 "For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as is the LORD our God whenever we call on Him?

    JABEZ
    1 Chronicles 4:10 Now Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, "Oh that You would bless me indeed and enlarge my border, and that Your hand might be with me, and that You would keep [me] from harm that [it] may not pain me!" And God granted him what he requested.

    SAMSON
    Judges 15:18 Then he became very thirsty, and he called on the LORD and said, "You have given this great deliverance by the hand of Your servant, and now shall I die of thirst and fall into the hands of the uncircumcised?"

    SAMUEL
    Psalm 99:6 Moses and Aaron were among His priests, And Samuel was among those who called on His name; They called upon the LORD and He answered them.

    DAVID
    2 Samuel 22:4 "I call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised, And I am saved from my enemies.
    1 Chronicles 21:26 Then David built an altar to the LORD there and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. And he called upon the LORD and He answered him with fire from heaven on the altar of burnt offering.
    Psalm 116:13 I shall lift up the cup of salvation and call upon the name of the LORD.

    PSALMIST ASAPH
    Psalm 80:18 Then we shall not turn back from You; Revive us, and we will call upon Your name.

    PSALMIST HERMAN
    Psalm 88:9 My eye has wasted away because of affliction; I have called upon You every day, O LORD; I have spread out my hands to You.

    ELIJAH
    1 Kings 18:24 "Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD, and the God who answers by fire, He is God." And all the people said, "That is a good idea."

    ELISHA
    2 Kings 5:11 But Naaman was furious and went away and said, "Behold, I thought, 'He will surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, and wave his hand over the place and cure the leper.'

    ISAIAH
    Isaiah 12:4 And in that day you will say, "Praise the LORD, call upon His name. Make known His deeds among the peoples; Make [them] remember that His name is exalted."

    JEREMIAH
    Lamentations 3:55-37 I called on Your name, O LORD, Out of the lowest pit. You have heard my voice, "Do not hide Your ear from my [prayer for] relief, From my cry for help." You drew near when I called upon You; You said, "Do not fear!"

    JONAH
    Jonah 1:6 So the captain approached him and said, "How is it that you are sleeping? Get up, call upon your God. Perhaps [your] God will be concerned about us so that we will not perish."


Calling upon the name of the Lord prophesied by the Prophets:

    JOEL
    Joel 2:32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD Will be delivered; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem There will be those who escape, As the LORD has said, Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

    ZEPHANIAH
    Zephaniah 3:9 "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, That all of them may call on the name of the LORD, To serve Him shoulder to shoulder.

    ZECHARIAH
    Zechariah 13:9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"


In the New Testament:

    PETER'S FISRT MESSAGE TO THE JEWS
    Acts 2:21 And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

    STEPHEN
    Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!

    THE SIGN OF CHRIST'S BELIEVERS TOWARD THE UNBELIEVERS
    Acts 9:14, 21And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon Your name. And all who heard him were amazed and said, Is this not the one who ravaged those who call upon this name in Jerusalem and came here for this, that he might bring them bound before the chief priests?

    PAUL
    Acts 22:16 And now, why do you delay? Rise up and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on His name.

    PAUL'S WORD TO THE ROMANS
    Romans 10:12-13 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same [Lord is] Lord of all [and] rich to all who call upon Him; For ``whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

    THE SAINTS IN CORINTH
    1 Corinithians 1:2 To the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, the called saints, with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, who is theirs and ours:

    PAUL'S WORD TO THE CORINTHIANS
    1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking in the Spirit of God says, Jesus is accursed; and no one can say, Jesus is Lord! except in the Holy Spirit.

    PAUL'S WORD TO TIMOTHY
    2 Timothy 2:22 But flee youthful lusts, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.


GOD'S COMMANDMENT TO CALL ON HIM:

Psalm 50:15 Call upon Me in the day of trouble; I shall rescue you, and you will glorify Me."


GOD'S DESIRE THAT HIS PEOPLE CALL ON HIM:

Psalm 91:15 "He will call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will rescue him and honor him.


THE PURPOSE OF CALLING ON THE LORD:

    (1) TO BE SAVED - Romans 10:13 For ``whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

    (2) TO BE RESCUED FROM DISTRESS - Psalm 118:5 From [my] distress I called upon the LORD; The LORD answered me [and] [set me] in a large place.

    (3) TO BE RESCUED FROM TROUBLE - Psalm 81:7 "You called in trouble and I rescued you; I answered you in the hiding place of thunder; I proved you at the waters of Meribah. Selah.

    (4) TO BE RESCUED FROM SORROW AND PAIN - Psalm 116:3-4 The cords of death encompassed me And the terrors of Sheol came upon me; I found distress and sorrow. Then I called upon the name of the LORD: "O LORD, I beseech You, save my life!"

    (5) TO PARTICIPATE IN THE LORD'S MERCY - Psalm 86:5 For You, Lord, are good, and ready to forgive, And abundant in mercy to all who call upon You.

    (6) TO DELIGHT ONESELF IN GOD - Job 27:10 "Will he take delight in the Almighty? Will he call on God at all times?

    (7) TO PARTAKE OF THE LORD'S SALVATION - Psalm 116:13 I shall lift up the cup of salvation And call upon the name of the LORD.

    (8) TO BREATHE THE LORD - Lamentations 3:55-56 I called on Your name, O LORD, Out of the lowest pit. You have heard my voice, "Do not hide Your ear from my breathing, From my cry for help."

    (9) TO DRINK FROM THE FOUNTAIN OF GOD'S SALVATION - Isaiah 12:3-4 Therefore you will joyously draw water from the springs of salvation. And in that day you will say, "Praise the LORD, call on His name. Make known His deeds among the peoples; Make [them] remember that His name is exalted."

    (10) TO DRINK THE SPIRITUAL WATER AND TO EAT THE SPIRITUAL FOOD FOR SATISFACTION - Isaiah 55:1, 6 "Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost. Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near.

    (11) TO ENJOY THE RICHES OF THE LORD - Romans 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same [Lord is] Lord of all [and] rich to all who call upon Him;

    (12) TO ENJOY THE NEARNESS OF THE LORD - Psalm 145:18 The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth.

    (13) TO STIR UP OURSELVES TO TAKE HOLD OF THE LORD - Isaiah 64:7 There is no one who calls on Your name, who stirs up himself to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us And have delivered us into the power of our iniquities.

    (14) TO RECIEVE THE SPIRIT - Acts 2:17, 21 ``And it shall be in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream things in dreams; And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."


HOW TO CALL ON THE LORD:

    (1) OUT OF A PURE HEART - 2 Timothy 2:22 But flee youthful lusts, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

    (2) WITH A PURE LIP - Zephaniah 3:9 "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, That all of them may call on the name of the LORD, To serve Him shoulder to shoulder.

    (3) WITH AN OPEN MOUTH - Psalm 81:7, 10 "You called in trouble and I rescued you; I answered you in the hiding place of thunder; I proved you at the waters of Meribah. Selah. "I, the LORD, am your God, Who brought you up from the land of Egypt; Open your mouth wide and I will fill it.

    (4) CORPORATELY - 2 Timothy 2:22 But flee youthful lusts, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

    (5) DAILY - Psalm 88:9 My eye has wasted away because of affliction; I have called upon You every day, O LORD; I have spread out my hands to You.

    (6) AS LONG AS WE LIVE - Psalm 116:2 Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call [upon Him] as long as I live.

[jabcat]

Very good scrips, Dave.


nes, maybe it's more accurate for me to say "in the direct Presence of God THE FATHER [Who will become All in All, when Jesus hands over the kingdom to Him]"

John 1:18    No one has ever seen God;  rather, it was the only God to be born, who is lying upon the Father's chest, who has described Him.  Christian Bible, 1991

"But He said, 'You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!'"    (Exodus 33:20).      Amen!  Anyone who has yet to die the second death, will see Him and die!  His judgments lead to righteousness.     I Cor. 15:22  For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.   Each man in his own order. 

[nes]

Very good scrips, Dave.


nes, maybe it's more accurate for me to say "in the direct Presence of God THE FATHER [Who will become All in All, when Jesus hands over the kingdom to Him]"

John 1:18    No one has ever seen God;  rather, it was the only God to be born, who is lying upon the Father's chest, who has described Him.  Christian Bible, 1991

"But He said, 'You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!'"    (Exodus 33:20).      Amen!  Anyone who has yet to die the second death, will see Him and die!  His judgments lead to righteousness.     I Cor. 15:22  For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.   Each man in his own order.

I have no idea what you are talking about.  Did I ever say that the person seen/heard god in a non-flesh form with his eyes/ears?  No, I did not. 

The person heard god's question through his mind.  Let's assume that this was god in the non-flesh form and not a demon or hallucination.  Now do you mind trying to take a stab at the question by answering what you think would happen next in this hypothetical situation?

Thinktank:  The person wasn't afraid or scared.  I got no idea where it says in the bible that god doesn't "show" love to people that are afraid/scared.

[WhiteWings]

What would god do in this hypothetical situation?

Let's say you were to call on god, the father to come. 
God does come without showing love.
But you don't desire anything.
God then asks you,"What do you want?"
And you don't answer and still desire nothing.

So what do you think would happen next?

My alarm clock goes off.