What gives us the right to judge?

[reFORMer]

I believe the normal (and only indispensable) meeting of the Eclessia should be conducted in a "round table structure."  Each one of us needs to exercise and be judged of the others in our expression of Christ as we progress corporately and individually to the Perfect Man, no less than all coming into the fullness of Christ.  It would follow that the people there would know one another.  Christ the head leads forth through any born of Him and the elders guard this liberty.  No one is allowed to take over the meeting.  Those presently practicing things that insure they are not inheriting the kingdom of God are not going to be allowed to "minister."  (It's transparent to the consensus in such fellowships that they're incapable of ministry.)  All are subject to one another for whatever reasons anyway,

When it comes to special "lecture structure" meetings, which are for beginning instructions, special visiting ministries, even someone teaching the scripture, hardly anyone else is participating.  We act as an audience for someone's ministry.  These are the type of meetings to which practicing homosexuals could be more welcome for a season.  I feel all Christians meetings are semi-private, or even by invitation only, unless we intentionally engage in a more evangelistic outreach in the community.  While not just everyone can "minister" among us, closed in that sense, remember Jesus, Who we follow, said, "I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing."

It is really horrible that so much of Churchianity has only ritualistic performances or the 1550's Reformation lecture structure (what I call,"march in, sit down and shut up;" or, "3 songs and a sermon," then, we flee to our cars) to choose from for how to meet.  Scripture expressly says, "What, then, is it, brethren? Whenever you may be coming together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a language, has a translation. Let all occur to edification." (1 Co 14²⁶ Concordant Literal)  Also, "...my brethren, be zealous to be prophesying, and the speaking in languages do not forbid." (vs 39)

[redhotmagma]

I believe the normal (and only indispensable) meeting of the Eclessia should be conducted in a "round table structure."  Each one of us needs to exercise and be judged of the others in our expression of Christ as we progress corporately and individually to the Perfect Man, no less than all coming into the fullness of Christ.  It would follow that the people there would know one another.  Christ the head leads forth through any born of Him and the elders guard this liberty.  No one is allowed to take over the meeting.  Those presently practicing things that insure they are not inheriting the kingdom of God are not going to be allowed to "minister."  All are subject to one another for whatever reasons anyway,

When it comes to special "lecture structure" meetings, which are for beginning instructions, special visiting ministries, even someone teaching the scripture, hardly anyone else is participating.  We act as an audience for someone's ministry.  These are the type of meetings to which practicing homosexuals could be more welcome for a season.  I feel all Christians meetings are semi-private, or even by invitation only, unless we intentionally engage in a more evangelistic outreach in the community.  While not just everyone can "minister" among us, closed in that sense, remember Jesus, Who we follow, said, "I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing."

It is really horrible that so much of Churchianity has only ritualistic performances or the 1550's Reformation lecture structure (what I call,"march in, sit down and shut up;" or, "3 songs and a sermon," then, we flee to our cars) to choose from for how to meet.  Scripture expressly says, "What, then, is it, brethren? Whenever you may be coming together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a language, has a translation. Let all occur to edification." (1 Co 1426 Concordant Literal)  Also, "...my brethren, be zealous to be prophesying, and the speaking in languages do not forbid." (vs 39)

:thumbsup:

[lomarah]

Yeah amen reF.  :thumbsup:
If the Lord wills I am going to get to travel this summer to meet face to face with a few sisters... I can't even tell you how excited I am... true ecclesia!!!  :banana:

What I meant about the Lord raising up leaders to feed His flock was not that the others are not involved at all, rather that the leaders help feed the flock as they grow and mature in Him (by HIS ordination... you will know if He has ordained someone to feed you or if He has ordained you to feed others.) I have never been able to meet together with believers who flow in the Spirit before but I can imagine (and what I've heard) is that He gives each one gifts to share with the rest so that each member is edified and an active part of the body. Actually even with the body on here this is true.

:HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

I agree Lo, it seems our issues with homosexuality have more to do with mans institutions

Man's institutions are indeed an issue I believe.  However, as far as the issue itself, Paul had some direct and blunt things to say about it - along with any sin.  As I understand, it's all to be turned from - whatever it is that "so easily besets us" as Paul said.  But willpower doesn't work.  I believe it's admitting there's a problem, surrending it to the Lord, and looking to Him (walking after the spirit rather than the flesh) that "works" - His works.       I do this with my own sin - I turn it over, but then eventually I pick it back up again - in weakness and/or by trying to trick myself that it's really OK to stuff my face until I'm almost sick - I tell myself "all things are lawful".  Then I do exactly what the Lord has convicted me not to do.

I believe it's 2-sided.  God wants us to be delivered and generally not bound by sin, i.e., as ded said, not "openly", uncaringly practicing it, while we try to justify it in our own mind, harming ourself, and perhaps also leading someone else astray, damaging their faith and walk.  I've done that, and it's a fearsome thing to avoid IMO ("millstone").  However, I also believe He allows us sometimes to struggle with certain things, and even to fail and fall.  I believe He wants us to learn by those failures several things; 
Sin doesn't work. 
Trying to justify it, explain it away doesn't work.
Trying to do it ourselves doesn't work. 
We need to constantly look to and trust in Him. 
Only He has the power to save, heal and deliver. 

Blessings.

[Watch/Pray]

Re:  Only He has the power to save, heal, deliver

I found this wonderful, short, all inclusive hymn a couple of days ago...  based on Gal 2:20 "I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved us, and gave Himself for us."

HIS IS THE LOVE  Fraser, 1899

His is the love we live by,
And His the blood that saves;
His is the grace we stand by,
The only grace that saves.

Refrain
His love, His love,
Its tide is flowing free;
His is the love to live by,
His is the love for me.


His is the love we live by,
Who died to set us free;
His is the arm we win by,
Our all sufficiency.


His is the love we live by;
No other love so dear;
His is the love we'll die by,
Which casteth out all fear.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:  Amen.

[Colleen]

Ded, I am perplexed by your wording of "openly". So it's ok if they're practicing these things secretly?  I am sure you didn't mean that, and so I  am perplexed.

[ded2daworld]

I used the word "openly" because someone before me did and doing things out in the open is a statement to the world that you do not think your sin is wrong. If one is trying to hide their sin, they must at least think it is wrong.
My point is, a preacher living openly in adultery is in no position to counsel another person against it - the same goes for any other sin. Doing the sin "openly" obviously means you don't think it's wrong. It's why we (society)don't overeat in public(usually) or do drugs in public. or commit adultery in front of friends or family members. We know it's wrong so we "do it secretly" or as Paul said "in the dark" or "in a corner"
If you want to say I'm saying Gays are wrong and they are sinning and even allowing it to be practiced "openly" is wrong, then you're right.
I'm saying it to them and to theives and fornicators and murderers and adulterers and liars. That stuff is wrong. Period. IGO

[Molly]

Ded, I am perplexed by your wording of "openly". So it's ok if they're practicing these things secretly?  I am sure you didn't mean that, and so I  am perplexed.

He was just answering my question.  That's the way I worded the question.  That's what's going on in my neck of the woods.

[lomarah]

This was on facebook last night. It touched my heart, wise words from Mother T. :) I wasn't sure where to post it then I saw the title of this thread and thought, why not lol.

(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag144/hollyannblunden/MotherT2_zps6dd410b7.jpg)

[CHB]

This was on facebook last night. It touched my heart, wise words from Mother T. :) I wasn't sure where to post it then I saw the title of this thread and thought, why not lol.

(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag144/hollyannblunden/MotherT2_zps6dd410b7.jpg)

lomara, what does it mean to judge someone? Is speaking the truth judging someone? blue is blue and green is green, how else can you see them.

Homosexuality is wrong and there is no way around it, if that is judging someone then so be it. A spade is a spade.

CHB

[lomarah]

Hi C!

True judgment sees the person, not the sin. True judgment sees the spirit tormenting the person. True judgment sees a precious human being who is being taken advantage of by evil spirits as much as the rest of us are, whatever the sin may be. True judgment hates the spirit, hates the evil, because the evil spirit is harming that person. See?  :HeartThrob:

[CHB]

I agree, that is why we should try to help them, not enable them.

You don't hand an alcoholic a drink and say have a nice day. At least I am not going to.

CHB

[CHB]

I was thinking about all of the post that seemed to say we should just accept the homosexuals for who they are and don't mention the fact that it is a sin that they need to change or point them to God.

Here is how I feel the world is going.

Concordant:
14 "And to the messenger of the ecclesia in Laodicea write: 'Now this is saying the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, and God's Creative Original:
15 "'"I am aware of your acts, that neither cool are you nor zealous! Would that you were cool or zealous!
16 Thus, seeing that you are indifferent, and are neither zealous nor cool, I am about to spew you out of My mouth.
17 Seeing that you are saying that 'Rich am I!' and 'Rich have I become, and of nothing have I need!' and you are not aware that you are wretched and forlorn and poor and blind and naked,
18 I am advising you to buy of Me gold refined by the fire, that you should be rich, and white garments, that you may be clothed and the shame of your nakedness may not be made manifest, and eye-salve to anoint your eyes, that you may be observing.
19 "'"Whosoever I may be fond of, I am exposing and disciplining. Be zealous, then, and repent!

Notice the last verse: "Whosoever I MAY BE FOND OF, I am exposing and disciplining.

Also the 16th verse. 16 Thus, seeing that you are indifferent, and are neither zealous nor cool, I am about to spew you out of My mouth.

CHB

[lomarah]

Nobody is saying don't lead them to God!! We are saying the exact opposite!! Show them His love!!! Which is exactly what He did to Willie!! (See video.) He never even told him to get rid of his boyfriend!! He just filled him with His love and the void that Willie was filling with homosexual lust, God filled with what it was supposed to be filled with in the first place!

[CHB]

I watched the video and I agree with God filling our hearts with love and all that but I heard him say he wasn't practicing a gay lifestyle anymore. God convicted him and showed him that behavior was wrong. Sometimes God himself deals with us and sometimes he uses us to deal with others.

First off the Church and laity didn't help him any, they just threw him out. Things may have turned out different if they would have given him love and teaching, guided him in the right direction...not look the other way though...but God had other plans he was going to handle it himself.

Did you not hear them both say that anyone should speak up inh love about homosexuality if given the opportunity? Listen to the video again.

CHB 

[jabcat]

I watched the video and I agree with God filling our hearts with love and all that but I heard him say he wasn't practicing a gay lifestyle anymore. God convicted him and showed him that behavior was wrong. Sometimes God himself deals with us and sometimes he uses us to deal with others.

First off the Church and laity didn't help him any, they just threw him out. Things may have turned out different if they would have given him love and teaching, guided him in the right direction...not look the other way though...but God had other plans he was going to handle it himself.

Did you not hear them both say that anyone should speak up inh love about homosexuality if given the opportunity? Listen to the video again.

CHB

Excellent points.  We can get so wrapped up in only one aspect of something - I missed that.  Good find.  And of course, IMO, that's what the scriptures say, to any of us that will hear.

[jabcat]

Ephesians 4:1  As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.


James 5:19,20    Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,  let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Galatians 6:1  Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself.

The next passage is if a sin is against a person in particular - Matthew 18:15 "If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

[reFORMer]

I don't want to mislead.  To correct and clarify I added to my post #50 on page 3 what is in bold black type here...

I believe the normal (and only indispensable) meeting of the Eclessia should be conducted in a "round table structure."  Each one of us needs to exercise and be judged of the others in our expression of Christ as we progress corporately and individually to the Perfect Man, no less than all coming into the fullness of Christ.  It would follow that the people there would know one another.  Christ the head leads forth through any born of Him and the elders guard this liberty.  No one is allowed to take over the meeting.  Those presently practicing things that insure they are not inheriting the kingdom of God are not going to be allowed to "minister."  (It's transparent to the consensus in such fellowships that they're incapable of ministry.)  All are subject to one another for whatever reasons anyway,

When it comes to special "lecture structure" meetings, which are for beginning instructions, special visiting ministries, even someone teaching the scripture, hardly anyone else is participating.  We act as an audience for someone's ministry.  These are the type of meetings to which practicing homosexuals could be more welcome for a season.  I feel all Christians meetings are semi-private, or even by invitation only, unless we intentionally engage in a more evangelistic outreach in the community.  While not just everyone can "minister" among us, closed in that sense, remember Jesus, Who we follow, said, "I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing."

It is really horrible that so much of Churchianity has only ritualistic performances or the 1550's Reformation lecture structure (what I call,"march in, sit down and shut up;" or, "3 songs and a sermon," then, we flee to our cars) to choose from for how to meet.  Scripture expressly says, "What, then, is it, brethren? Whenever you may be coming together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a language, has a translation. Let all occur to edification." (1 Co 14²⁶ Concordant Literal)  Also, "...my brethren, be zealous to be prophesying, and the speaking in languages do not forbid." (vs 39)