We of all people are to be pitied...

[guest6088]

Paul had 'life' of the age (aionious life)... He knew Christ in THIS life.
...He had that revelation...joy...That honor...That 'free gift' etc.  :cloud9:

And yet Paul says:

1 Corinthians 15:19
If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.[/b]  :dunno2:

What do you think he meant by that? - This was Paul who considered 'all else 'dung' in comparison to knowing Christ.  :eek:
Knowing Christ was life itself.

My personal thoughts are that perhaps he was referring to the terrible persecution he (and the other early believers) had to endure.
"...THIS is WHY we WORK and are HEAVY LADEN"...  :dontknow:  Maybe he was speaking 'humanly' at this point?  Maybe for the benefit of others? ... There could be many reasons?
I know I write positive one day and negative another!  (Up and down), (I'm sure we all do?!).  So I don't judge Paul on this at all but would like greater understanding of what he means.

Paul said:-
1 Timothy 4:10
THIS is why we LABOR (work hard/fatigue ourselves) and strive (struggle), because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.[/b]

...Any thoughts on this would be greatly welcomed and appreciated.  :dsunny:
I think that whatever was happening I (we) must try to understand and appreciate the obvious sacrifices the early believers must have been making for Paul to have made such a statement.
Elsewhere Paul spoke of his faith as a 'race'.  He seems to me a 'driven man'....Could anyone add to that also? - And do you believe he perhaps had some inner guilt that he could never fully get rid of in this life? 

A few questions here, sorry!  :laughing7:

[sheila]

 :2c:Just this morning I was thinking about those very brothers,what they had to endure..and then my portion,all these years later...

   and how I didn't feel worthy of them...the commission they received. And I wondered what they thought.And...I..heard this....

'in our time,we saw through a glass darkly..your portion and time is much lighter.I felt a great union with them..and accepted....

and I realized..they are not perfected apart from us,nor we perfected apart from them..


we labour not in vain...and look forward to the rewards of the Kingdom.Though,now, it is like paddling against the current in this world..

sins wage was death.....we have the free gift,rewards and eternal life!!! :girlheart:

[guest6088]

:2c:Just this morning I was thinking about those very brothers,what they had to endure..and then my portion,all these years later...

   and how I didn't feel worthy of them...the commission they received. And I wondered what they thought.And...I..heard this....

'in our time,we saw through a glass darkly..your portion and time is much lighter.I felt a great union with them..and accepted....

and I realized..they are not perfected apart from us,nor we perfected apart from them..


we labour not in vain...and look forward to the rewards of the Kingdom.Though,now, it is like paddling against the current in this world..

sins wage was death.....we have the free gift,rewards and eternal life!!! :girlheart:

The suffering those early men and women suffered must have been horrendous for Paul to make such a statement.

Paul must be saying what he is saying for effect though?...To benefit/perhaps reassure others in some way - Since Paul could have been under no doubt of his hope in Christ having seen the risen Lord?

[marie glen]

Amen, all believers (saved during this brief lifetime) will be perfected all together at once, at Jesus' return will "put on immortality and incorruptibility" :banana: How blessed are we..?

It was so clever of Paul, when the mob was closing in of Pharisees and Saducees and the mob they were stirring up.. to yell out it's because of beliving in resurrection - life to come, that I am being mobbed.. Obviously a big division between those two parties.. (more political than spiritual! imo?)

The Saducees didn't believe in angels, nor in resurrection.. So if there's no resurrection.. why would Paul spend his life toiling for God?? He used to be a pharisee.. So of course he was well acquainted with the rift..

Paul gave up his high standing in the Judean culture.. Same for all.. we are God's children.. status, station, if we were king or queen.. all dung campared to our riches! Namely Jesus! All worthless compared to the riches in Christ and Yhwh..

"this is why we labor and toil" Paul said..
Verse 8 says "bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things! Having promise of the life that now is (for this life) and of that which is to come (and for the one that is to come)..

Verse 6, "If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed...  7 But reject profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness. 8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things.."

This is how the Living Bible says it.. "-10 This is the truth and everyone should accept it. We work hard and suffer much in order that people will believe it, for our hope is in the living God who died for all, and particularly for those who have accepted his salvation.

This is a word for word interlinear of the verse - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/4-10.htm the most accurate type of translation of course..

I like to read the parallel verses - https://biblehub.com/1_timothy/4-10.htm

verses 1 and 2 - "Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron

6,7 - 6 If you teach these things to other followers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus. You will show that you have grown up on the teachings about our faith and on the good instructions you have obeyed. 7 Don’t have anything to do with worthless, senseless stories... 13-16 be sure to keep on reading the Scriptures in worship, and don’t stop preaching and teaching. 14 Use the gift you were given when the prophets spoke and the group of church leaders blessed you by placing their hands on you. 15 Remember these things and think about them, so everyone can see how well you are doing. 16 Be careful about the way you live and about what you teach. Keep on doing this, and you will save not only yourself, but the people who hear you.

Therefor I think it's the Spirit of the Lord that causes one to "work" for Him.. To be zealous for the Truth! (But not too zealous.. as the world is swamped in untruth! No sense driving ourself crazy! :laughing7: )

Verse 1, "God’s Spirit clearly says that in the last days many people will turn from their faith. They will be fooled by evil spirits and by teachings that come from demons. In Paul's day 'judgment' was coming (70 a.d. a very bad time, I've read the Christians knew signs Jesus had told and they left the city beforehand.)

Paul wrote how in 'last days' there would be a "great falling away" from the faith, the culture would no longer be Christian.. So much as not.. (There's always "a remnant".)

False prophets and teachings of demons will lead people away from believing. (Which false prophet is THE biggest false prophet of latter days? :dontknow: I think we can pretty much, sorta, narrow it down to one of two.. (I don't think they have to be spiritual teachers! or teachings.. it says teachings of demons.. Which, there's quite a few.. So we work. What else would we do? And it blesses us now.. and will bless us in the life/age/world to come!

It's all there in His Word.. "treasures old and new.."

I really like doing cross references of the men Paul wrote these letters to, Timothy and Titus, to see where they are mentioned elsewhere in other letters and in Acts. It really makes things come alive. Timothy obviously was "young".. I think Titus was too.. Paul first traveled with Barnabas (1st journey) then with Silas after they had a slight falling out, minor disagreement.. It's interesting to read of some of the other people in Acts.. and in the letters.. Luke traveled some with Paul.. Mark, when I first began to read and study, I thought he was a disciple (with Jesus) but he was a sort of secretary to both Paul and Luke.. and likely others?

When i stand before God I want my head, and heart, full of His word.. and not any teachings of the demons, if I can help it.. and not with the ideas and imaginations of humans.. or even of my own.. "what is the dross to the wheat"? I forget what prophet wrote that..

https://www.google.com/search?ei=WdZpXK3PGeXujwStlIr4BA&q=verse+tell+a+dream+but+what+is+the+dross+to+the+wheat&oq=verse+tell+a+dream+but+what+is+the+dross+to+the+wheat&gs_l=psy-ab.3...41179.45576..47273...0.0..0.193.1877.5j12......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i304i39j33i10.lR8z9cECXBE
     Let the prophet who has a dream retell it, but let him who has My word speak it truthfully. For what is straw compared to grain?
        declares the LORD. - Jeremiah 23:28