My point in the title is hopefully only confrontational in the aspect of thinking about something I do not have the intent to just be argumentative.
I came to UR not through the dislike of hell, I have never in my whole life feared going to hell nor was I ever influenced to any emotional concern whatsoever over the thought of hell. I came to UR through the questioning of religious thought and teachings.
I came to UR as a result of confronting the contradictions that encompass many teachings within Christianity.
I often hear the term "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" but my conclusion in the past was that the baby was dead so it would eventually render the bathwater to be dank and contaminated.
I say this because I refuse to just simply trade one religious doctrine for another because it appeases my emotions.
I think it is reasonable to conclude that if Christianity got something so horribly wrong through mistranslation and context or from a willful past of influencing an idea to control the masses that much of the rest of it's outlook is questionable as well.
So for those who think the traditional religion under the term "Christianity" has it right up to the point of eternal Hell what reasoning do you use to say this about only one area of it?
Hi Paul
no doubt that politics and religion are the two main topics that cause the heat to rise
remember Paul speaking of the zeal of Corinth though it be misplaced zeal , it could still be turned around for the ''good''
but only if the Spirit lead them and they would become subject to Christ
NLT John 7 16 So Jesus told them, "My message is not my own;
it comes from God who sent me.
17 Anyone who wants to do the will of God will know whether my teaching is from God or is merely my own.
18 Those who speak for themselves want glory only for themselves, but a person who seeks to honor the one who sent him speaks truth, not lies.
well is sure does depend on what mind understanding, what is truth
and what is lies
<< 2 Timothy 3 >>
Weymouth New Testament
1 But of this be assured: in the last days grievous times will set in. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, profane. They will be disobedient to parents, thankless, irreligious, 3 destitute of natural affection, unforgiving, slanderers. They will have no self-control, but will be brutal, opposed to goodness, 4 treacherous, headstrong, self-important. They will love pleasure instead of loving God, 5 and will keep up a make-believe of piety and yet live in defiance of its power. Turn away from people of this sort. 6 Among them are included the men who make their way into private houses and carry off weak women as their prisoners--women who, weighed down by the burden of their sins, are led by ever-changing caprice, 7 and are always learning something new, and yet are never able to arrive at real knowledge of the truth. 8 And just as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so also these false teachers withstand the truth--being, as they are, men of debased intellects, and of no real worth so far as faith is concerned. 9 But they will have no further success; for their folly will be as clearly manifest to all men, as that of the opponents of Moses came to be.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on February 04, 2010, 06:23:18 PM
<< 2 Timothy 3 >>
Weymouth New Testament
1 But of this be assured: in the last days grievous times will set in. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, profane. They will be disobedient to parents, thankless, irreligious, 3 destitute of natural affection, unforgiving, slanderers. They will have no self-control, but will be brutal, opposed to goodness, 4 treacherous, headstrong, self-important. They will love pleasure instead of loving God, 5 and will keep up a make-believe of piety and yet live in defiance of its power. Turn away from people of this sort. 6 Among them are included the men who make their way into private houses and carry off weak women as their prisoners--women who, weighed down by the burden of their sins, are led by ever-changing caprice, 7 and are always learning something new, and yet are never able to arrive at real knowledge of the truth. 8 And just as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so also these false teachers withstand the truth--being, as they are, men of debased intellects, and of no real worth so far as faith is concerned. 9 But they will have no further success; for their folly will be as clearly manifest to all men, as that of the opponents of Moses came to be.
What is a lover of self? I would say and believe that the traditional teaching for prayer is for self gain not to accept the will of God.
Paul,
Depends a bit on the defenitions of doctrine and enlightment.
Doctrine has (for me) sounds negative while the strickt meaning is a teaching.
Jesus was a teacher so from that pov UR is a doctrine.
Enlightment. In Biblical phrase: To remove dimness or blindness from (the eyes, and fig. the heart). Obs.
I think UR is only an elightment if ´you suddenly know it´.
Reading uncorrupted texts is enough to `find` UR and that´s closer to doctrine than enlightment.
So.
UR is always a doctrine and can be an enlightment. :2c:
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 04, 2010, 06:39:18 PM
Paul,
Depends a bit on the defenitions of doctrine and enlightment.
Doctrine has (for me) sounds negative while the strickt meaning is a teaching.
Jesus was a teacher so from that pov UR is a doctrine.
Enlightment. In Biblical phrase: To remove dimness or blindness from (the eyes, and fig. the heart). Obs.
I think UR is only an elightment if ´you suddenly know it´.
Reading uncorrupted texts is enough to `find` UR and that´s closer to doctrine than enlightment.
So.
UR is always a doctrine and can be an enlightment. :2c:
Good point, in what I was wanting to say I am talking about the difference between just another religious point of view because the case can be built for it and true spiritual awakening.
And then to take that thought to talk about why someone will hold to religious traditions except the tradition of teachings surrounding eternal damnation.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on February 04, 2010, 07:06:31 PM
Good point, in what I was wanting to say I am talking about the difference between just another religious point of view because the case can be built for it and true spiritual awakening.
Then my answer is the same. All pov´s are doctrines. Only one comes from Jesus. The others from satan.
QuoteAnd then to take that thought to talk about why someone will hold to religious traditions except the tradition of teachings surrounding eternal damnation.
The Bible says people are sheep. I think that´s an understatement.... People are more like Lemmings. Blind followers.
A perfect example is fashion. This year red stripped hats are fashion. And everybody thinks they are great. And when the next year green baseball caps are fashion everyone hates red striped hats.
Why? Sudden worldwide change of personality? Green is a great improvement? No because someone who knows says so.
The person with the sulphur breath in front of church knows too.
If you wear red hats next year you are an idiot. But if you ignore pastor Brimmy you will burn forever.
So people are not used to think and that makes them scared to think. Especially true in religious matters.
Doctrines have a safety switch build in. If you start thinking you want to stray from the narrow path.
So thinking is giving in to delusions of satan.
QuoteAnd then to take that thought to talk about why someone will hold to religious traditions except the tradition of teachings surrounding eternal damnation.
Assuming you mean people who switched to UR.
Firstly people don't like to much changes so they stick with what they know. So they prefer to keep as much of their old doctrine as possible. And let us be honest; Calvinists, for example, are not wrong about each and every thing they say.
So there will be common ground. And UR followers are not that different from others. They are also followers. When I read the articles and books on Gary's site they always are about hell, death, eternity etc. People follow those teachings. But what about things not on the site? Should our day of rest be on Saturday or Sunday? I didn't read a UR book on the subject. So people stick with the tradions of their former church.
So this is my answer to you: If UR teachings only teach on 5 points then people only change their traditions on 5 points. So they stick with the other 500 points taught by their former teachers....