HI brothers and sisters :girlheart:
Recently I have been getting in touch with my hebraic roots. Not a Jew by birth but believe that as christians we are now those children Abraham was promised from other nations so I am one of Abrahams children. During my time in mainstream christianity I was always told that the Torah was 'nailed to the cross.' with Yeshua. But now I'm not so sure???
I've just begun a journey f finding out if Torah observance is something relevant to today's christian, also to what point, kosher eating, head covering, shabbat?
I think it goes towards Father becoming all in all. We becme adopted as His children, rather than He becomes 'adapted' to suit us as gentiles.
Any thoughts?
Nat
:girlheart:
Good question.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
So some laws still exist imo. Like the Ten Commandments.
More a question than an answer is: Are the laws of Moses the laws spoken of in the verse above? Aren't they just (partly) man made laws? And Biblically seen perhaps (partly) never existed?
I think laws on animal sacrifice no longer exist because with Jesus' perefect sacrifice that's no longer needed. In fact I think it's even blasphemy.
But totally nailed to the cross I can't believe. Without law there is no sin. Without sin there can be no judgement. And without judgement many verses in the NT seem to be empty words.
There are many opinions on what is nailed to the cross. Some say sabbath rest was nailed to the cross and has become sunday rest.
I wonder if the (modern) church leaders also think the tithe was nailed to the cross :p
:cloud9: I found out I have literally have Jewish roots, two years ago, but without the knowledge of that, the LORD already had me studying the OT for decades, and applying it SPIRITUALLY to my understanding.
I do think personally from what He's shown me, that we (the church, who has Jewish roots), were always supposed to be celebrating the feasts, not as a law adherence, but as a visible sort of "show and tell" for those "outside the camp", which is what all the examples in the OT were for in the first place, ie. the shadow that points to the true.
I have been getting an inkling of something more along those lines, but it is not fully "fleshed out" for me yet, so can't comment beyond this. Blessings...
Thanks WW and Card. Its a journey. I had a Hebrew lesson tonight. It was really fun and informative.
I think I will be giving up christmas but I'll also be observing the seven feasts so its not really a loosing situation.
:girlheart:
I see it as freed from the ritual observance of the law. The law was a taskmaster leading to Christ the Messiah. The law can't save. Paul said if we return to works/the law to save us, we are fallen from grace. IMO, a born again believer serves God out of love and from God writing His will (laws) upon our hearts at our new birth - and as God works HIS works of obedience through us. Some can eat, some's conscience bothers them if they eat (partake). The Spirit works in each one, bringing us to the place God wants us. We are to accept each other (with all our different places in our walk) without condemning/criticizing. Per my understanding of what Paul said, if one is led to partcipite in an observance, that's between them and God. If another does not honor one day over the other, that's between them and God. We are all to look to Jesus, Who began and will end/perfect our faith. I personally have no problem with one of Jewish descent participating/honoring some of the customs of their heritage - but to claim it as a need for everyone, or for anyone, as far as having anything to do with their salvation, I don't see that. If they feel led to do it as a form of worship, as a way of honoring God through their heritage, God can let them know what He wants them to do (or not). I believe though requiring such things as one brother/sister to another, is akin to the circumcision issue. Not necessary in the new birth - it occurs in the heart instead. My :2c:.
Hi Nat. I personally don't make a big deal of observing "Christmas" either, but my family and most of my brothers and sisters in the Lord do.
I can see that the feasts etc. have relevance to us today, if for NOTHING else, for our learning and some believe, as a foreshadow of events in our "age of grace".
P.S. I just noticed in your post Card about applying SPIRITUALLY - I guess that's what I'm getting at as well. :thumbsup:
P.S.S. I read something Gary A wrote once that REALLY hit home with me. He said our current "church" age does have manifestations of the Power of God, but it's a time of mixed truth and error. He noted in most of churchdom that there is a mix of grace and the law that (perhaps, if I'm not misinterpreting what he said) hinders our more complete worship in Spirit and in truth. Don't have all the answers to that, but some interesting things to think about for sure.
:thumbsup:
Lee
I am presently convinced there is no authority for teaching the idea that the O.T. is to be divided into sections and that
some of those sections are not to be followed and that some are to be
used as law even now. Some have said there is a difference between the commands and the rituals. But I disagree. I cannot find any scriptural difference. To get a little technical, the TORAH is the law and it includes the total of everything concerning it. The TSAVAH is the prime commandment and it includes the rituals and lots of other statutes too--- including the Ten Commandments ( words ). The MISHPAT is the judgment. The CHOQ is the statute and decree. The MITSVAH is from the TSAVAH and is a commandment. The DABAR is a "word" and is used in the Ten Commandments ( word ) sometimes called DECALOG ( or the 10 words ).
The EDAH is a testimony or witness and comes from the idea to duplicate. The CHUQQAH is a statute or ordinance or decreed limit. These are eight O.T. words that are used interchangeably in our translations. Concerning the O.T. law; there is just no way to decide which ones to keep and which to
throw out. In checking out the article which pleads with us to return to the law, I noticed that the author quoted some of the better commands ( TSAVAH ) such as apply to health, government and military ideas -- and I agree -- but there was no mention of the commands ( TSAVAH ) which are impossible to keep in OUR PRESENT SOCIETY. For example, give dead animal meat to a stranger and sell to alien but don't eat it yourself ( Deut. 14:21 ). I wouldn't want to give or sell bad meat to anyone. Also, offer no blemished sacrifice (Deut. 17:1 ). Well, I don't intend to offer any sacrifice at all -- blemished or not. How about -- stone the wicked person (Deut. 17:5 ) ?
I don't believe Jesus wants me to stone anybody.. ? The commandments say if I take a beautiful women captive in a battle I am to leave her alone
for a month before having sexual intercourse with her ( Deut. 21:10 ) When I was in the U. S. Navy in the Korean War I never intended to keep that commandment by having sexual intercourse with any captive woman -- and my wife Agreed ! How about the command that the son of your hated wife is to receive the greater inheritance if born before the son of your beloved wife ? The only way I know how to keep that command is to engage in polygamy and I do not intend to keep that command. In fact, my government would prosecute me, my society would persecute me and MY WIFE WOULD EXECUTE ME if I did keep it ! The command ( TSAVAH ) is to kill your stubborn, rebellious child. I'm glad that my parents didn't keep that one! The command ( TSAVAH ) says that a rapist MUST marry his victim ( any age ) if she is not engaged to another man ( Deut. 22:28 ). I find it
inconceivable that anyone would want to go back to the commandments of the O. T.
It is a thrill to me to know that my Savior Jesus Christ made it all simple by condensing (8) different words and hundreds of different ways of translating them into ( 4 ) simple commands.
1. Watch for the return of the Son of Man (Second coming ) (Mark 13:34 ) I Lee Damboise II, believes this is when a person is(Born again--Jewish Circumised Law Christians, Peter's Gospel) or US GENTILES (Adopted into the body of Christ--Jews + Gentiles, Pauls Gospel, Grace )].
And this happens when we are awaken to God IN US. Second Coming!!!
And has NOTHING to do with a Rapture.
2. Love each other (John 15:17 ).
3. When we minister we are to preach and teach that ( Acts 10:41-43 ):
A. Jesus was ordained of God
B. Jesus brings remission of sins to believers...For ever in this life
4. Be a light to the Gentiles ( which you were ), Acts 13: 47.
Now I feel FREE TO LIVE
Lee Damboise II
Quote from: natcat86 on December 22, 2009, 12:24:38 AM
Thanks WW and Card. Its a journey. I had a Hebrew lesson tonight. It was really fun and informative.
I think I will be giving up christmas but I'll also be observing the seven feasts so its not really a loosing situation.
:girlheart:
:cloud9: :thumbsup: I have wanted to learn Hebrew for years now. I pay more attention to the Hebrew feasts than the "Christian" ones, and have for years, at least in an intellectual and spiritual way.
I did get to see and participate in a Passover Seder years ago and it was beautiful. It was put on by a Messianic rabbi who invited anyone to come. It was amazing to see in practice of it, how informative it was and how it pointed to Christ, and that is my point on why I feel we as a church body would have been doing it had it not been for the Helenization of the church centuries ago.
Again, not because we HAVE to, but because we would want to out of love for our God and for our fellow man to see the beauty of Christ revealed in the intricacies of His Word. And it's pretty obvious that the disciples who were Jews, did not stop the feasts that God said were to their generations FOREVER (not just when Messiah came). Blessings....
My train of thought went like this:
John 14:21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.
Which commands, I thought the law was done away with?
Matthew 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Heaven and earth have not disapeared! So the law hasn't either!
613 laws though, that is a lot, what can I do today to keep the law?
Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
So the law is 613 ways of loving God and your neighbour as yourself. It isn't cultural to love one another so I dont think that it should be refered to as cultural to observe Torah. The Torah illustrates how holy Father is. If we want to be close to Him, to please Him, become more like Him and love Him we should keep his commands. Not becuase we're worried about the cnsequences of what will happen if we dont but because we LOVE Him! But always remembering tht it isn't keeping those commands that saves us.
Duet. 22:28 says that if your 9 year old girl is raped by me and IF I want her as my wife, all I have to do is give you about 340 Dollars and she is mine forever. Is that what you want me to do to your child and get away with it? Well that's the Law. And there is a septeration of Church and State, so if I had enough money, I couldn't be stopped.
This is a sick law, I choose to live In he New Life IN Christ and if I follow the Law, then Christ Profit ME nothing.....
Nat, if you don't see it as cultural, and you don't see it as saving us, but more of "613 ways to love Him", here's another thought (these are MY thoughts, not necessarily going to go try to grab specific scriptures to support it, more so my general understanding)...are we really able to keep all those laws? Were the Jews able to keep them? What did law-keeping do (or not do) for them, including in God's eyes? Wasn't the law basically leading mankind to see they/we were not able to keep all the laws/be "good enough", thereby leading us to the hill of Calvary?
Also, what laws/COMMANDS did Jesus actually give when He came? Wasn't it love God and love your fellow man? Didn't Jesus actually technically "break the Law", i.e., he and his disciples gathered food on a Sabbath? Peter's vision, in direct opposition to some of the 613 laws, "no longer call anything common or unclean"...Paul, "everything is clean if eaten in thankfullness"...
Just some thoughts. Disclaimer - I am NOT talking about living in "sinful 'lawlessness'", but living as one born from above, seeking obedience and leading by our Father, having our hearts circumcised before Him, having the new birth which writes the requirements of obedience (laws) on our heart as a child, not as a slave. That everything in the OT was for our learning/example, including the literal foreshadow of spiritual (scripture describes as BETTER) things to come.
Perhaps some food for thought. Deep subject, and greater minds than mine have grappled with it.
Quote from: natcat86 on December 22, 2009, 01:42:43 AM
My train of thought went like this:
John 14:21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.
Which commands, I thought the law was done away with?
Matthew 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Heaven and earth have not disapeared! So the law hasn't either!
613 laws though, that is a lot, what can I do today to keep the law?
Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
So the law is 613 ways of loving God and your neighbour as yourself. It isn't cultural to love one another so I dont think that it should be refered to as cultural to observe Torah. The Torah illustrates how holy Father is. If we want to be close to Him, to please Him, become more like Him and love Him we should keep his commands. Not becuase we're worried about the cnsequences of what will happen if we dont but because we LOVE Him! But always remembering tht it isn't keeping those commands that saves us.
:cloud9: That's a good point about love not being "cultural". It ALL means something spiritually, and is being written in our hearts as we walk it out in shoe leather, but I see no conflict in a DEMONSTRATION of some of the literal, as that is what the literal, literally was. His teaching me out of the OT types and shadows which He did from day one, in essence was a restoration of principles that were lost.
For example; the laying on of hands in the NT comes from the OT laying hands on the sacrifice, and the laying on of hands is listed as one of the FOUNDATIONAL principles that we are to leave behind to go on unto perfection. The old points to the new, the new points to the old; both point to Christ. Blessings....
Also interesting to note, that it seems to me as the early church developed, they moved more and more away from ritual observances having to do with the Jewish Law. And when they were tempted to return to them, Paul had words of instruction to them outlining the difference between grace and law.
Question - no swords drawn please - is it possible pre-cross age has any bearing on this topic, Jesus' words, etc. (rightly dividing, such as in the rich man and Lazarus parable)? A few will be an automatic 'no!'. A few may think it over. :scratchhead: Which is what I'm doing - I suspect perhaps, but I don't know for sure :dunno2:
Quote from: Cardinal on December 22, 2009, 02:10:44 AM
:cloud9: That's a good point about love not being "cultural".
Love's not cultural, but the literal description of men "greeting each other with a holy kiss" may be... Don't even try it Taf... :laughing7:
Quote from: jabcat on December 22, 2009, 02:25:43 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on December 22, 2009, 02:10:44 AM
:cloud9: That's a good point about love not being "cultural".
Love's not cultural, but the literal description of men "greeting each other with a holy kiss" may be... Don't even try it Taf... :laughing7:
lol
:icon_flower:
:cloud9: :grin:
Quote from: Lee Damboise on December 22, 2009, 01:10:39 AM
I am presently convinced there is no authority for teaching the idea that the O.T. is to be divided into sections and that some of those sections are not to be followed and that some are to be used as law even now. Some have said there is a difference between the commands and the rituals. But I disagree. I cannot find any scriptural difference. To get a little technical, the TORAH is the law and it includes the total of everything concerning it. The TSAVAH is the prime commandment and it includes the rituals and lots of other statutes too--- including the Ten Commandments ( words ). The MISHPAT is the judgment. The CHOQ is the statute and decree. The MITSVAH is from the TSAVAH and is a commandment. The DABAR is a "word" and is used in the Ten Commandments ( word ) sometimes called DECALOG ( or the 10 words ).
The EDAH is a testimony or witness and comes from the idea to duplicate. The CHUQQAH is a statute or ordinance or decreed limit. These are eight O.T. words that are used interchangeably in our translations. Concerning the O.T. law; there is just no way to decide which ones to keep and which to throw out. In checking out the article which pleads with us to return to the law, I noticed that the author quoted some of the better commands ( TSAVAH ) such as apply to health, government and military ideas -- and I agree -- but there was no mention of the commands ( TSAVAH ) which are impossible to keep in OUR PRESENT SOCIETY. For example, give dead animal meat to a stranger and sell to alien but don't eat it yourself ( Deut. 14:21 ). I wouldn't want to give or sell bad meat to anyone. Also, offer no blemished sacrifice (Deut. 17:1 ). Well, I don't intend to offer any sacrifice at all -- blemished or not. How about -- stone the wicked person (Deut. 17:5 ) ?
I don't believe Jesus wants me to stone anybody.. ? The commandments say if I take a beautiful women captive in a battle I am to leave her alone for a month before having sexual intercourse with her ( Deut. 21:10 ) When I was in the U. S. Navy in the Korean War I never intended to keep that commandment by having sexual intercourse with any captive woman -- and my wife Agreed ! How about the command that the son of your hated wife is to receive the greater inheritance if born before the son of your beloved wife ? The only way I know how to keep that command is to engage in polygamy and I do not intend to keep that command. In fact, my government would prosecute me, my society would persecute me and MY WIFE WOULD EXECUTE ME if I did keep it ! The command ( TSAVAH ) is to kill your stubborn, rebellious child. I'm glad that my parents didn't keep that one! The command ( TSAVAH ) says that a rapist MUST marry his victim ( any age ) if she is not engaged to another man ( Deut. 22:28 ). I find it inconceivable that anyone would want to go back to the commandments of the O. T.
It is a thrill to me to know that my Savior Jesus Christ made it all simple by condensing (8) different words and hundreds of different ways of translating them into ( 4 ) simple commands.
1. Watch for the return of the Son of Man (Second coming ) (Mark 13:34 ) I Lee Damboise II, believes this is when a person is(Born again--Jewish Circumised Law Christians, Peter's Gospel) or US GENTILES (Adopted into the body of Christ--Jews + Gentiles, Pauls Gospel, Grace )].
And this happens when we are awaken to God IN US. Second Coming!!!
And has NOTHING to do with a Rapture.
2. Love each other (John 15:17 ).
3. When we minister we are to preach and teach that ( Acts 10:41-43 ):
A. Jesus was ordained of God
B. Jesus brings remission of sins to believers...For ever in this life
4. Be a light to the Gentiles ( which you were ), Acts 13: 47.
Now I feel FREE TO LIVE
Lee Damboise II
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes Lee,
And I agree. For one thing it was pointed out that for those who were attempting to be justified by keeping the law that if they failed in ONE point they failed in ALL.
Grace is a free gift that is not earned nor does it come by works of the law, I think I am going to go with grace and stay with the rest from the labors that comes with OT law keeping that was a yoke of bondage for the Jews let alone it wasn't given to the gentiles to observe in the first place besides that scripture points out that Grace is suffiient!
Peace,
Fire Walker
One can do whatever they really feel led to do. I just know that FOR ME, I would need to be careful and not enter back into a yoke of bondage with too much focus on ritual, the literal acting things out, etc. I have a tendency anyway to struggle, obsess, get caught up in a "have-to" mindset rather than letting things flow from the heart. My need is to better be able to worship in Spirit and truth, living in the freedom of the Christ LIVING THROUGH ME, not find any more unecessary rituals to follow. My :2c:.
I'm not saying we must keep the law like the pharises did, measuring out a tenth of herbs and using it as a stumbling block for others.But in my walk I am being convicted at the moment to be 'Torah' minded. Its a personal thing. As Card said about 'a restoration of principles that were lost', I think that is what Father is doing for me. When I backslid at 17-19ish I became very liberal minded, and very tolerant of sin and even when I came back I continued this liberal (liberal morally, not politically) though process. So I think that Father is using Torah to teach me what is acceptable and what isn't and to show me just how Holy He is. Also since my parents divorced when I was 15 I have had a very 'friendship' based relationship with my dad. I think Father wants to teach me what He expects from a father daughter relationship, to show me how I should respect Him. I've also discovered that there is a lot of paganism mixed in with the christianity I have been taught.
Its so funny that you mentioned the word restoration Cardinal, its a word that has been on my heart a lot these last few days. It was just hannuka which could be seen as about restoration of Gods commands, and I've been thinking about whether Father will restore me to being spirit lead as I once once and on top of all that I think he is restoring our Father/daughter relationship.
He is using Torah to do all those things. I've picked up ALOT of bad habbits!
BUT its a personal thing. Father is so amazing he knows how many hairs there are on my head and so He knows me well enough to know this is right for me. However He also knows everyone else just as well so He knows if its not right for them.
:HeartThrob:
I think a more important and more difficult question is; what Jewish customs are from God and what are manmade?
I can't find the verse but there is one (more?) that states that manmade customs hurt Father in His soul.
So you must take care that you don't do more damage than good trying to follow customs.
Good point WW, and good points Nat. Hey, if that's what God uses for a season to restore and bring you forward somehow in Him, He knows what He's doing a lot more than I do (that's a 'duh, understatement' :bigGrin:). Anyway, follow exactly where He leads, and you'll find yourself in green pastures.
FireWalker, thanks
Nat, do what the person in you tells you and you will be where He wants you now. Latter will come. when He chooses
Lee
Thanks everyone you all bless me so much! :girlheart:
I scanned this article, looks pretty interesting/helpful
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Torah_Observance/torah_observance.html
And this one is awesome...some really good early church history in here, including their progression in the faith
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Torah-Aware/torah-aware.html
Hey Jabcat, thanks a lot for that.
I think I may have gotten the wrong word with torah "Observant". I just feel that I'm at a time in my life where Father is teaching me what holiness is and He is using torah to do that. But some of the commands of the Torah have been superceded by the coming of Yeshua, so like it says on that page in the table about written on tablets vs written on our hearts, I wont go back to eye for eye justice when Yeshus has taught me to forgive! BUT I will keep the Shabbat on Saturday and I will keep the feasts. As they have not been fulfilled yet and I will try to rid my life of all paganism, idols that have crept in even into my christianity.
Maybe I mean Torah aware or Torah minded? hmm :dontknow:
:girlheart:
Quote from: natcat86 on December 23, 2009, 01:16:36 AM
Maybe I mean Torah aware or Torah minded? hmm :dontknow:
:girlheart:
LOL, that's exactly what I was wrestling around in my mind...I was interrupted from reading the 2nd article, but I was thinking that's also what the Jewish Christian writer was saying...good to be aware, educated, it helps us understand the NT better...not necessarily to try to keep the law, but to respect and be aware of the types, shadows, things of importance. Not bondage, but awareness and learning. I'm gonna get back to reading the 2nd article...some interesting things there. :bigGrin:
So as far as keeping the sabbath on Saturday. I really don't know a whole lot about the strict observance of the day, but doesn't it have to do with not driving a car, not preparing food, a whole set of things that cannot be done or one has "sinned", etc.? Is that what you intend to do, or somehow have more of a respect for the day as a day of rest and observance? There's a lot to consider here Nat :happy3:. What do you think it will look like for you?
I think to me keeping the sabbath means having a rest from work, and dedicating the day to Father to have fellowship, teaching, prayer- the spiritual meaning behind shabbat I think is rest and connecting with Father so driving wont go against that for me. Bit like Sundays are now for folks but on the correct day. I dont know where it is in the bible but there is a bit about how a sign of the end times will be that the correct times and dates that were ordained by father will be messed about with. Father chose the 7th day for a rest and that is what saturday is.
Father wants us to rest, you wouldn't work an animal all week long! Also like the feasts it is a set aside time dedicated to Father. last Shabbat I went to a shabbat meeting, had some teaching, prayer, worship, discussion and food. I even got to share about UR which was awsome. They are christians who are looking into their hebraic roots. I asked them if hell was real why is it never mentioned to Adam and eve or Moses? Really got them thinking!
:girlheart:
It's an interesting topic alright, and good that you got to share at the meeting. Here's my bottom line. I think there's a reason that we are to be led by the Spirit, our own conscience, to work out own salvation with fear and trembling, and to accept each other as Paul said, not to be contentious/judge, etc. So for some, I think God may use and bless a certain activity in that person's life (as long as it's not clearly against the standard of the scriptures) while at the same time, He may work in totally the opposite direction in another believer's life. Here's what I'm getting at. He may use some of these things to bring you exactly where He wants you. Some of it may even be of a temporary nature, until you're ready to move on to the next step. While at the same time, He may not use some of those same things at all at this present time(or at least on a limited basis) for myself - I have been in a place of my life of striving for perfection, being in bondage to rules (many in my own mind), struggling to obtain favor through my own works, etc. Where I believe God has led me is away from ritual and ceremony, away from struggling to follow rules and more of a daily, moment by moment walk of obedience, a learning to worship more in Spirit and truth. (I'M NOT SAYING I'M GOOD AT IT, I'M SAYING THAT'S THE DIRECTION I HOPE I'M HEADED IN). I see the discipline in my life as needing to be one of obedience INWARDLY, an issue of the heart/mind/will, to where He is truly living through me, not me making the efforts "as beating the air" as Paul said. I've gone through the rituals, I've been tied in knots, I need it to be a matter of my innermost being. I look at it as "one esteems one day over then next, another esteems all days the same - one eats meat, the other doesn't - he who does, does it as unto the Lord. He who doesn't, does it as unto the Lord". Different places in our walk, God knows exactly what we all need if we'll just be obedient. I'll leave you alone with this now unless you bring up more issues. :bigGrin:
"Take my yoke upon you and learn of me...My yoke is easy, and my burden is light...when the Spirit comes He will lead you in all truth".
God's blessing, James.
Quote from: jabcat on December 23, 2009, 01:57:11 AM
"Take my yoke upon you and learn of me...My yoke is easy, and my burden is light...when the Spirit comes He will lead you in all truth".
God's blessing, James.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, and that is good news to ALL no matter where they might be in their personal walk with the Lord, revelation of the truth comes by the spirit.
Peace,
Fire Walker
Quote from: fire walker on December 23, 2009, 03:28:52 AM
Quote from: jabcat on December 23, 2009, 01:57:11 AM
"Take my yoke upon you and learn of me...My yoke is easy, and my burden is light...when the Spirit comes He will lead you in all truth".
God's blessing, James.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, and that is good news to ALL no matter where they might be in their personal walk with the Lord, revelation of the truth comes by the spirit.
Peace,
Fire Walker
Amen.
A scripture that has really jumped out at me and sums up my thoughts and motivation with this is
2 Timothy 3:16-All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
:girlheart:
Quote from: natcat86 on December 23, 2009, 12:23:31 PM
A scripture that has really jumped out at me and sums up my thoughts and motivation with this is
2 Timothy 3:16-All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
:girlheart:
The verses are correct (ofcourse) but also quite useless in this topic. The question is not if Scripture come from God but what customs come from God and what customs come from God. Plus did the death of the Son end some rules/customs commanded by the Father?
If you break one law then you break 'm all. So the chance you are going to break them all is very close to 100%.
Then ofcourse it can be argued that things can be done out of love instead of obeying a law. That sounds a little better to me. But still by doing so do we not "add things" to Scripture?
An (ET) saying comes to mind" The road to hel is paved with good intentions.......
:(:
I think the scripture that I quoted is completely relevant. Some of the law has been fulfilled so do i think that we should have animal scarifices, no! BUT some has not been fulfiled such as keeping the sabbath and the feasts. So that command still stands it is a command from God not a suggestion.
The scripture Paul was talking about was the Torah!!! and note the scripture I quoted says it is profitable for,
-doctrine
-reproof
-correction
-instruction in righteousness
Note- NOT SALVATION!!!
So since Yeshua's sacrifice we dont follow the Torah to bring us salvation BUT as Paul noted AFTER Yeshua's sacrifice it is still good for many things!
http://www.seedofabraham.net/nlul.html (http://www.seedofabraham.net/nlul.html)
Here is a good article which explores the two phrases, 'under the law' and 'works of the law'.