The Flood

[WhiteWings]

Maybe it's a figurative story (kinda like a parable) designed to teach us something about God.  And only those who seek really get it.  Perhaps.  :Chinscratch:

Maybe. But I find it a slippery slope.
Creation was a parable because it's evolution.
Abraham never lived. It's just folklore with a message.
King David is a fable. He's just a name in a great Biblical teaching.
Jesus wasn't crucified. Crucifixion is a term for something else.

I mean where does end? Why is it good/ok to call creation an parable and rejecting crucifixion is blasphemy.

WhiteWings now it is you that are using fallacies  :HeartThrob:  Just because "one" story is deemed a parable, does NOT mean in any shape or form that ALL stories must therefore be parables.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I'll try again. IfGod decided to mak ethe whole Bible literal but the creation part a parable then it's so.
The danger lays in letting man select what's a parable and not.
UR: Burning the chaff parable is about purifying the sinner that's in the process of being saved.
ET: It's total and utter proof of hell.
ED: See the chaff no longer exists.

In no way I denying the Bible contain God inspired parables and hidden stuff. All I'm saying if it' hard to understand, it doesn't prove it isn't literal. Science says the earth is 4+ billion years old. Christian: I can't explain away the creation account so it must be a parable. I hope that explains my fallacy  :gimmefive:

But just give a moments thought on how Noah kept the Polar bears alive. Do you have any idea how much food two elephants could consume in 40+ days. What about the kolar bears of Australia and the fresh Eucalyptus leaves they need to live. Same with the Panda's and the bamboo shoots. I hate to even bring up Grizzly bears, Lions and every other large carnivorous animal, what did Noah feed them on. Either additional animals were brought along to feed them or I guess we have a lot of animal species that didn't make it. Attrition.

I've read many arguments about it. I'm a local flood supporter but I've actually bought books my global flood people. I'm an old earth supporter and bought YEC books. Even watched hours of Kent Hovind.
Hovind claims all animals is one of each family. So only 1 type of dog. Say 2 poodles. The other dogs we see today evolved through micro-evolution. To clarify Kent is very strong opposing macro-evolution (Darwin) So am I. He also believes lions also ate grass. I personally know dogs do. But I also doubt a dog survives on 3 blades of grass a month. (thats how many my dog ate)
Personally think local and all animals were animals living in Noahs valley. Imo local flood has good support even some scientific while global is very impossible with current scientific understanding.
For me the thing that's most against local flood is: Why didn't Noach just pack his bags and move to higher ground. I think it's just is how God works. Why did the Jews have to wage all those wars. I'm sure God is very capable of handling 20 billion enemies every split second. God is against sin/evil. Yet He decided to wait crushing it until the revelation. I'm sure it's not because He's gathering courage to fight satan. So somehow God saw something good in building an ark instead of moving to higher ground.

Yes, it is easy to say that if it is in the Bible then it must be so. But is the literalness of the story evermore important than the spiritual message?  :HeartThrob:

What's most important for you about your house? I bet you mention all sorts of things but not the foundation.
The roofs and walls as the goal of your house. --> Spiritual
But the house is built on the foundation ---> Literal

So the answer is: Spiritual is most important but it can't understood without literal and/or literal is a safeguard against injecting fantasy spiritual doctrines.

I truly hope I have not burned a bridge here, it was not my intention, honestly.  :friendstu:

You only opened a can of worms. I have lots of them so feel free to take a few. I'll always defend my views. I'll explain them a 1000 tims if needed. Only when I'm talked down to I either ignore or start sharpening my swords
  :gimmefive:

[JulieTang84]

Whitewings said:

You only opened a can of worms. I have lots of them. I'll always defend my views. I'll explain them a 1000 tims if needed. Only when I'm talked down to I either ignore or start sharpening my swords
:gimmefive:

Oh my goodness, the thread said it had been read 666 times when I clicked to reply  :eek:


Ok, as for the can of worms, plant them in the earth where they can do the most good.  :HeartThrob:


You raise some very interesting points. Yes, the Earth is billions of years old, regardless of what some say. Was it created in 6 Earth days? Hardly, the Sun wasn't even in existence when the first day was completed, actually the Sun and the Moon was created on the 4th day. Do we not use the Sun and Moon today to measure time and the spance of time? Yep, we sure do, but Father certainly has no need and didn't.


One can chose to believe what one wants, as feverantly as possible, yet the truth never changes. I certainly do not deny that there was a great flood. Neither do I deny that Moses was given what to write. Yet, you me and any other can spend a lifetime debating, disecting and analyzing every thread of evidence in order to prove or disprove anothers belief. What will it acheive? Nothing. :HeartThrob:


Here is the problem with determining a Literal event from a Parable. Unless we are privy to the ABSOLUTE truth, we can only assume. Certainly not a a solid foundation for anything. Note: I am talking about Father purposely drowning His children. Not whether he created a flood or Not. Was Father responsible for Katrina? Well of course, but did He SPECIFICALLY set out to course MASSIVE destruction, or did HE simply allow natural events to unfold. I believe so, I really do. I can defend my stance and argue my point, but that is only ever what it will be, a point of contention to some other who has been given another point of view.  :HeartThrob:


So the Flood story, I have heard just about every conceivable possibility, including Aliens coming to Earth and harvesting every single DNA strand from EVERY animal and shipping them off to another galaxy. Possible? Yes. Likely just a possible as a global flood which, as you and I do not believe took place.


How many times have we been told to NOT lean on our understanding? A lot and this is what I have been given from this. Yes, the possibilities are endless. Father can do what He wants, when He Wants and How he wants, but does that mean he does?


Father Changes NOT. Jesus introduced the Spirit, prior to that, Fathers children has to learn by their senses. There was no Google, public library or daily news. News travelled by word of mouth, very few could read or for that matter, had anything to read. So, hearing, seeing, touching and physically experiencing were paramount to their understanding. In many ways, back then people were as gullible as an inexperienced child. Who knows the effect the words of Moses and all of the great prophets had on the people. I imagine they were captivated and the words touched their core being.


Did Moses actually surive in a hot searing desert with hundreds of thousands if not a couple of million people for 40 years with only mana and very little water? I will not go there; the words are clear, the logistics not so much.


Yet, this story is still a metaphor for the completion of the big picture. The Flood as I said in a previous post (imo) is Father telling us that he will destroy the sinful nature of everyone, saving only what is righteous nature. No one will be lost. Moses desert story, is very much like the wasteland that many experience all to frequently when the Spirit begins to lead them home. Have not we all experienced this, by being dragged from out comfort zone into areas unknown. I know that I have  :HeartThrob:


If you have not gathered, I am less concerned with the "word's" of each story as I am with how their message fits the great jigsaw puzzle of truth.


My truth, is that Father is Love and Love is Father. Jesus Christ is my brother and a brother to all and we ARE to Love, Trust, Honor, etc Father in every moment just as HE does. Oh and be a loving brother and sister to EVERYONE else and become as a child.  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

This is enough for me. It really is. I believe the possibilities are endless. I believe all the knowledge that has ever been born of human minds would fit on a pin head when compared to Father. To see true wisdom just study a single cell. Father is so beyond, beyond, but closer than close.

Well time for Julie to step off of her little podium  :girlheart:


Love to you, Julie

[ded2daworld]

I'm a former science teacher. Science backs up a very young earth, (less than ten thousand years old) Evolution is scientifically impossible (and to my shame I once taught it so don't tell me I don't understand it) All evidence indicates a global flood from the stratification of the rocks being laid down rapidly to the lack of erosion and pitting from meteors between the layers to polystrate fossils which also prove rapid deposition. There are also billions of marine fossils found all over the world(as would be expected from a global flood) including the very tops of the highest mountains. Another thing is the 15 seconds it takes to make a radiohalo which is found in solid granite rock and granite cannot have come from a molten earth since when granite is melted and cooled a different type of rock called chrysolite is formed. Always. That's science. I could write a book - which I am currently doing called "Science and Logic against Evolution".
Not to mention there are miracles the blind seeing, the jews crossing and the egyptians drowning at the red sea, the 40 years of the jews clothes not wearing out in the desert, resurection, walking on water, etc.
Scientists for the most part are atheists so they must speculate on how things could have happened without God, which means other than the way it actually did. There are many scientists that DO believe. You can find some at AnswersinGenesis.org and scienceagainstevolution.org :Peace2:

[WhiteWings]

Did Moses actually surive in a hot searing desert with hundreds of thousands if not a couple of million people for 40 years with only mana and very little water? I will not go there; the words are clear, the logistics not so much.

It's not that Moses' walked 40 years without stopping. His portable Temple was massive. It's impossible to walk all day and then at night set up the tent and break it up in the morning. Or even only on Sabbath day. I looks quite a job to me to get it all ready.

Water, food and heat were no/a minor problem because God was helping them.
Pillar of fire provided light; cloud provided shelter and water (Isa 4:4-6); manna provided food, their cloths and shoes did not wear out; (Deut 8:4)

[JulieTang84]

Did Moses actually surive in a hot searing desert with hundreds of thousands if not a couple of million people for 40 years with only mana and very little water? I will not go there; the words are clear, the logistics not so much.

It's not that Moses' walked 40 years without stopping. His portable Temple was massive. It's impossible to walk all day and then at night set up the tent and break it up in the morning. Or even only on Sabbath day. I looks quite a job to me to get it all ready.

Water, food and heat were no/a minor problem because God was helping them.
Pillar of fire provided light; cloud provided shelter and water (Isa 4:4-6); manna provided food, their cloths and shoes did not wear out; (Deut 8:4)

Not going there......  :HeartThrob:

[ded2daworld]

A man stands before an audience. "I only know one magic trick... I will take this worm I have here on the end this pencil and turn it into a fully functional man." The audience is amazed. The man holds the pencil out with the worm on it and waits and waits. The audience grows restless after a few minutes. "Please be patient with me"the man asks, "this is the only trick I know and it takes 1 Billion years."

[WhiteWings]

If you have not gathered, I am less concerned with the "word's" of each story as I am with how their message fits the great jigsaw puzzle of truth.

I gathered that. I'm sure you have gathered I try to avoid such dangerous paths as the plague.
:2c:

[JulieTang84]

I'm a former science teacher. Science backs up a very young earth, (less than ten thousand years old) Evolution is scientifically impossible (and to my shame I once taught it so don't tell me I don't understand it) All evidence indicates a global flood from the stratification of the rocks being laid down rapidly to the lack of erosion and pitting from meteors between the layers to polystrate fossils which also prove rapid deposition. There are also billions of marine fossils found all over the world(as would be expected from a global flood) including the very tops of the highest mountains. Another thing is the 15 seconds it takes to make a radiohalo which is found in solid granite rock and granite cannot have come from a molten earth since when granite is melted and cooled a different type of rock called chrysolite is formed. Always. That's science. I could write a book - which I am currently doing called "Science and Logic against Evolution".
Not to mention there are miracles the blind seeing, the jews crossing and the egyptians drowning at the red sea, the 40 years of the jews clothes not wearing out in the desert, resurection, walking on water, etc.
Scientists for the most part are atheists so they must speculate on how things could have happened without God, which means other than the way it actually did. There are many scientists that DO believe. You can find some at AnswersinGenesis.org and scienceagainstevolution.org :Peace2:

D2 I love science and I am sure that you are ever so much more knowledgable than I  :HeartThrob:


All what you say is very true, I do know that some agree that the earth is very young though others say the  is something like 4.6 billion yrs old. I do know that Father is timeless and was never not. Our time is all relative to something we cannot understand.


Yet what you say about fossil records being found in the most unlikely places is so true. Also peoples traditions speaking of a huge flood are found world wide. That some huge flood type event occurred in the past is most undeniable.


Yet did Father course this to wipe away EVERY Human but a small handful. Was Noah able to collect EVERY animal from around the world?


Evolution is an interesting topic. It is undeniable, all life evolves through breeding and genetic manipulation, but evolution is not the cause, but rather the effect. Many fail to see the distinction in this.


As for the crossing of the Dead Sea. We are told that there were over 600,000 fighting me, which could be a total of around  2,500,000 women, children and older aged people. If several people abreast crossed per second, meaning every second several people reached the other side; it would take about 29 days for the last person to reach the other side.


Yes, Father can and does do miracoulous things. Did he slow down time enough that 29 days seemed like 29 minutes? He might have. Did he carry them across himself so that none were trampled in the rush? He would certainly be able. What of sanatarian constraints, disease and unhygenic conditions. No flushing toilets and ezy wipes back then.


Father can do anything, even move and support 2.5 million people for 40 years in a inhospital dessert. He can just as easily give Moses cause enough to write about it.


All we know is that the "story" was recorded for our instruction and edification. None of which are changed if the story was 100% accurate, 50% embilshed or 100% fanticful. The message never changes  :HeartThrob:


Love Julie

[JulieTang84]

If you have not gathered, I am less concerned with the "word's" of each story as I am with how their message fits the great jigsaw puzzle of truth.

I gathered that. I'm sure you have gathered I try to avoid such dangerous paths as the plague.
:2c:

John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Parables rarely reveal what is assumed.

Mat 13:10
The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"

Mat 13:11-14
He replied, "Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

Perhaps, I am the only one that has been given to look past the words.  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Love Julie

[sheila]

  Julie, what makes you thyink that it wasn't love for the epople that made God take so many at once. per the flood

    every thought was evil all the time..devouring one another.

   the righteous man is taken away, and no-one ponders it in his heart..that in death they rest..and are spared of the wicked.

     when everything is evil all the time..it is merciful for God to take them.

     How do you not know that He in love was delivering from the evil one.   People that are held too tightly of wickedness

  get their clay vessels crushed...and He remakes them over.[rule with a rod of iron]

    all men are appointed to die once[leave this weak vessel susceptible  to evil corruption]

   any vessel marred in His hand is made new.

   when all is said and done...we will all agree....'even if the righteous one should strike me...it would even be a blessing"

   nd we,too,shall find out when He delivers us from the wicked one..and the body undergoing this death

[JulieTang84]

  Julie, what makes you thyink that it wasn't love for the epople that made God take so many at once. per the flood

    every thought was evil all the time..devouring one another.

   the righteous man is taken away, and no-one ponders it in his heart..that in death they rest..and are spared of the wicked.

     when everything is evil all the time..it is merciful for God to take them.

     How do you not know that He in love was delivering from the evil one.   People that are held too tightly of wickedness

  get their clay vessels crushed...and He remakes them over.[rule with a rod of iron]

    all men are appointed to die once[leave this weak vessel susceptible  to evil corruption]

   any vessel marred in His hand is made new.

   when all is said and done...we will all agree....'even if the righteous one should strike me...it would even be a blessing"

   nd we,too,shall find out when He delivers us from the wicked one..and the body undergoing this death

Dear Sheila  :HeartThrob:

All valid points, but to your question: What makes me think that it wasn't because of Love, Father destroyed so many in the flood.

Because Father is PERFECT  :HeartThrob: And no LOVING father would ever drown his children.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
New International Version (NIV)
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Father never changes and Jesus taught us always to fill our hearts with love. Anything that takes us away from LOVE is not of God.   :HeartThrob:

His Holy Word should unite not divide - this is the loving approach we are meant to take. We are all brothers, sisters, united under one God.

I do not see LOVE in Eternal Damnation and nor do I see LOVE in the drowning of perhaps millions.

Sheila, I am NOT discounting the message, just it's literal understanding. The fact that this subject is dividing us, means without a doubt it is time to walk away.

God bless you sister  :girlheart:

Love Julie

[ded2daworld]

"All we know is that the "story" was recorded for our instruction and edification. None of which are changed if the story was 100% accurate, 50% embilshed or 100% fanticful. The message never changes."

So, can we take God at his word? Do you think He ever wonders how silly we are to take something literally just because he had his different, but in agreement, secretaries right it down?

Since God can do anything, and he wanted to teach us with pictures and scenarios and words, why wouldn't he cause things to happen as they were written rather than , essentially, not tell us the truth. Jesus (God in the flesh) never disagreed with any old testament story and alsways talked as if the word was 100% true. "In the beginning He made them male and female" "In six days God created the heavens and the earth"  If there was death before the fall of Adam and Eve(before sin) what is the point of Christ coming to save us from eternal death?
If there was millions of years before Adam and Eve, there had to be death before they existed. This isn't so with a six day creation.
I think Jesus knows what he's talking about...certainly more than fallible, sinful, man with an atheistic agenda.
(I'm not knocking anyone's beliefs, I believed all the same baloney even when I was a Christian. I just believe and am sorry now, that I didn't take God at his word, didn't trust him to tell me the truth, didn't trust him to be right when learned scientists claim different. God is infinitely smarter than the wisest man that ever lived.  :Peace2: 

[ded2daworld]

"Because Father is PERFECT   And no LOVING father would ever drown his children."

God in love can certainly destroy others just as he did with the egyptians. It is to protect those that worship him in this life
and keep them from a destroying influence. God brought them life, he can and does take it away to serve his purpose. Like removing a cancer to keep the body alive, healthy, funvtioning.
Besides, the whole point of UR is that God will one day "even out" everything. :Peace2:

[WhiteWings]

  Julie, what makes you thyink that it wasn't love for the epople that made God take so many at once. per the flood

I'm starting to wonder it were people. It's mentioned Nephlim lived before and after the flood. Seems a tiny hint. Joshua had a war campaign and it was all at places with Nephlim tribes.
Live in Hebrew is spelled in 3 ways. The 3rd way is life not created by God Himself. So Biblically seem perhaps not life at all.
If true the Nephlim would polute the whole bloodline of Jesus.
Well Nephlim or not many died.

[JulieTang84]

"All we know is that the "story" was recorded for our instruction and edification. None of which are changed if the story was 100% accurate, 50% embilshed or 100% fanticful. The message never changes."

So, can we take God at his word? Do you think He ever wonders how silly we are to take something literally just because he had his different, but in agreement, secretaries right it down?

Since God can do anything, and he wanted to teach us with pictures and scenarios and words, why wouldn't he cause things to happen as they were written rather than , essentially, not tell us the truth. Jesus (God in the flesh) never disagreed with any old testament story and alsways talked as if the word was 100% true. "In the beginning He made them male and female" "In six days God created the heavens and the earth"  If there was death before the fall of Adam and Eve(before sin) what is the point of Christ coming to save us from eternal death?
If there was millions of years before Adam and Eve, there had to be death before they existed. This isn't so with a six day creation.
I think Jesus knows what he's talking about...certainly more than fallible, sinful, man with an atheistic agenda.
(I'm not knocking anyone's beliefs, I believed all the same baloney even when I was a Christian. I just believe and am sorry now, that I didn't take God at his word, didn't trust him to tell me the truth, didn't trust him to be right when learned scientists claim different. God is infinitely smarter than the wisest man that ever lived.  :Peace2:

Julie with  :footmouth:

If nothing else, I am never afraid to say I messed up. I did this time for sure  :dunno2:


Was the story of Noah's flood allegorical?

While the Bible does contain many parables and metaphors, I see little evidence that the story of Noah's ark is intended as anything but a literal story.

Firstly, we have Noah who is listed in the genealogies of Genesis 5, 1 Chronicles 1, andLuke 3. Noah also had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth. So unless Noah's wife was impregnated by a particularly potent metaphor, we must accept that Noah was a literal person.

Second, if Noah was a real person, but the flood story was just an allegory, then someone was lying about what actually happened to Noah and his family.

Third, God Himself refers back to the flood in Isaiah:"To me this is like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth."

~ Isaiah 54:9 God seems to have forgotten that this was just a metaphor, and that He didn't actually cover the earth with water.

Fourth, Jesus too seems to believe the flood was a literal event:"Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. It was the same in the days of Lot."

~Luke 17:26-28 Jesus could've cleared things up by saying, "Just as it was in the parable of Noah..." yet he chose to describe these times as literal days. There were literal days before the flood, and literal days afterward. Jesus also says "It was the same in the days of Lot" — should we also take the story of Lot allegorically?

Fifth, elsewhere in the New Testament, Noah's flood is also understood as a literal event:By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

~Hebrews 11:7 ...to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water...

~1 Peter 3:20 ...he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others...

~2 Peter 2:5
The people of "the ancient world" who were "disobedient long ago" were not imaginary, nor was the ark that Noah was building, they were all as real as Noah was.

Lastly, once again, there is the matter of the rainbow. Why do rainbows exist? According to the Bible...And God said, "I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth... Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life."

~ Genesis 9:12-15 Why would God create a literal rainbow as a promise to protect us from a metaphorical flood?

http://http://500questions.wordpress.com/2012/12/23/40-should-noahs-ark-be-taken-literally/

Pride before a fall. Father let me rant for a while and then brought me back in line.  :HeartThrob: 

D2, what you said here was wonderful: Since God can do anything, and he wanted to teach us with pictures and scenarios and words, why wouldn't he cause things to happen as they were written rather than , essentially, not tell us the truth.
I write all of this with a humble heart and ask for forgiveness.
With Love, your lil sis Julie  :girlheart:

[jbertonbounds]

"All we know is that the "story" was recorded for our instruction and edification. None of which are changed if the story was 100% accurate, 50% embilshed or 100% fanticful. The message never changes."
Good point!
So, can we take God at his word? Do you think He ever wonders how silly we are to take something literally just because he had his different, but in agreement, secretaries right it down?

Since God can do anything, and he wanted to teach us with pictures and scenarios and words, why wouldn't he cause things to happen as they were written rather than , essentially, not tell us the truth. Jesus (God in the flesh) never disagreed with any old testament story and alsways talked as if the word was 100% true. "In the beginning He made them male and female" "In six days God created the heavens and the earth"  If there was death before the fall of Adam and Eve(before sin) what is the point of Christ coming to save us from eternal death?
If there was millions of years before Adam and Eve, there had to be death before they existed. This isn't so with a six day creation.
I think Jesus knows what he's talking about...certainly more than fallible, sinful, man with an atheistic agenda.
(I'm not knocking anyone's beliefs, I believed all the same baloney even when I was a Christian. I just believe and am sorry now, that I didn't take God at his word, didn't trust him to tell me the truth, didn't trust him to be right when learned scientists claim different. God is infinitely smarter than the wisest man that ever lived.  :Peace2:
I don't think it's a matter of a lack of trust in God to tell us the truth.  We are truth-seekers here, and we question things, bounce around ideas, reject some, accept some, pray, read, study, listen to the Holy Spirit.

[sheila]

  that is what the evil contrast is..it is not life at all...and is not of God's spirit..we know it as evil/wicked one..it,too has it's

  influence on flesh.

  Father teaches by contrast,positive and negative...He placed us in weak flesh..that is susceptible to the negative

forces..to manifest both positive and negative examples for teaaching His children.

   when the fallen angels did what they did evil increased dramatically on the earth,to such an extent..that Father even wished

  He had not  placed us in this weak flesh[we shall all receive incorruptible vessels].


   we are warned of this devourer and how it can result in the destruction of the flesh...that if we heed not God it maay suceed

in destroying our flesh and consuming us. And the same wicked contrast..active on men may also destroy our flesh,just

as Jesus was done..and His disciples and followers[fear not those who kill the body,then can do nothing else]


      if He hadn't cut those days short..no flesh would be saved......there aare those who beleive to the salvation of the soul

     aand just as in Christ's day warning ws given that when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies..flee.....the word

has gne out,come out of her my people...........

   Jesus said 'as in the day's of Noah......."

  now, I have caught  few 'reality' shows..that exhibit people that seem to me so base,so materialsim minded and

so empty-headed..that I can't beleive there are people that shallow..and almost void of what I term humanity..but there

are indeed such people overcome..as madmen,serial torturers nd murderers..as religious madmen murderers also....

   and in the days of the flood this was everywhere. Just remember...when the head appears in the wheat,also the weeds

appear.

   a fiel..overtaken of so much weeds..is burned...but remember though one wheat be surrounded by eight tares..there

will be a seperation..  peoples bodies as soil/feilds.

    this world is stored up for fire...tares will be burned and seperated from the wheat.


   Father promised that never again would He bring a flood of waaters like that on the earth again...........when the evil contrast

  flooded[overcame men] in Noah's day.....in that way[two wittness] they were destroyed.


Now,read the account of Gog and Magog in Rev 20..how satan goes forth to cover the land again.......and the fire come down

t destroy him[also note the scripture'satan himself will cause fire to come down from heaven. and remeber that in what way

  anyone would hurt the two wittnesses in that manner they will be destroyed.


   when God loses satan from the abyss to go forth[He that now restrains..angel with the great chain that has the key to abyss

  it is the resurrection of the wicked[for when the head appears in the wheat the tares lso]

  the dragon bound is the faallen ones....God prophecys what He will do..how He will lead him out in Ezekiel 39


   God himself looses him from the abyss for his destruction[in case you wondered who let satan out of the abyss..and

  who it was that was restraining him]   and yes..we have had no idea of the great evil as the days f Noah..that God

  has cut short for our sakes...that we may also see some good...but we will know as that dragon comes up from the abyss

set to devour the manchild.

.

[ded2daworld]

Still doesn't answer the question. Since Jesus believed in a six day creation, noah's flood, and the 40 years in the desert after egypts chariots went floating, doesn't it make sense to believe what Jesus did. Does any human know more than He about what did and did not happen. Maybe he was just naive to believe his Father. I'm sure there are many places in the Bible where God didn't really mean what he said or he was telling us a fable to get us to the truth. :Peace2:

[Eduard]

Thanks to everyone for the insight, especially Julie and ded2daworld, you both make some great points. The Flood and the Bible as a whole are really fascinating subjects for discussion  :Peace2:

[jbertonbounds]

Still doesn't answer the question. Since Jesus believed in a six day creation, noah's flood, and the 40 years in the desert after egypts chariots went floating, doesn't it make sense to believe what Jesus did. Does any human know more than He about what did and did not happen. Maybe he was just naive to believe his Father. I'm sure there are many places in the Bible where God didn't really mean what he said or he was telling us a fable to get us to the truth. :Peace2:

Why do you assume Jesus believed in six day creation, flood, and 40 years in desert?  Isn't it possible that whenever he mentioned these bible events/stories that he was only speaking allegorically about them?  I may occasionally speak of "mother nature," but I don't really believe in her as a literal figure.  I may speak of Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, etc, but ...  Does that mean I believe in those things?

Don't get me wrong.  I believe the Word of God.  But I also believe that any time we lean too far towards the literal, we begin to miss out on spiritual blessings that are hidden in it.  These blessings are there for the seekers to find.  Proverbs 25:2 [ESV] - "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter."

[ded2daworld]

So does God say something happened that didn't really happen in order to get us to the truth or see some spiritual allegory??
I don't think so. Do you really think that Jesus said stuff he didn't really mean? Would he ever have referred to mother nature?
I also believe we can lean too far toward the allegorical, to where nothing really happened at all and it's all just a story so we will love God. I sure don't think so.
You end up with my signature line.

[micah7:9]

Cut off your hand?

[jbertonbounds]

So does God say something happened that didn't really happen in order to get us to the truth or see some spiritual allegory??
I don't think so. Do you really think that Jesus said stuff he didn't really mean? Would he ever have referred to mother nature?
I also believe we can lean too far toward the allegorical, to where nothing really happened at all and it's all just a story so we will love God. I sure don't think so.
You end up with my signature line.

IMO, Jesus spoke figuratively many times to the crowds, but tended to talk more straight-forward to his disciples in private.  Certainly we don't want to lean too far towards literal or figurative, but the Holy Spirit guides us in truth so that we will know the difference between truth and leaning too far. 

Here are some examples of when Jesus spoke figuratively (IMO):

Matthew 5:14    You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Jesus said it, but he didn't mean we are literally lights or cities.

Matthew 5:29    If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into gehenna.
Jesus said we should remove our eye from our body and toss it in the trash can.  IMO this is hyperbole, and if hyperbole, he didn't really mean it literally.

Luke 18:25  For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
The idea of a camel doing that is impossible and absurd.  This is definitely hyperbole and figurative, IMO.

Matthew 5:13  You are the salt of the earth...
Jesus said it, but we are not literally salt.

John 6:54  Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
Jesus was definitely speaking figurative here, but the crowds sure thought he was weird for saying this, because they thought he meant it literally!  Yikes![/size]

A literalist might argue that Matthew 5:29 was a commandment!  I have heard that some people have actually gauged out their eye, believe it or not!  Since John 6:54 was obviously meant in a symbolic way, we know that Jesus did not actually believe that we were to eat his literal flesh and drink his literal blood, but does that mean he told something he didn't believe?  Absolutely not.

As the point was made earlier, if we get caught up in worrying about whether a bible event/story was literal history or allegorical, we miss the whole point of it having been included in the bible.  Every event/story in the bible is there for to teach us something about the nature of our Father. 

It's just that it scares the daylights out of most folks over where to draw the line between literal and figurative/allegorical.  I understand their fear.

I have looked at the instances where Jesus referred to the creation, the flood, and Israel's time in the wilderness, and I don't believe we have to be worried about whether he believed these were historical or allegorical.  Jesus gave no indication of how he believed these events to be.  He merely referred to them.  We often refer to "events" of fiction in our modern-day speech to make points.  It does not mean we believe them to be non-fiction.

My point is, we don't know whether Jesus "believed" them to be historical or allegorical, and we have no basis for believing He believed one way or the other.

[ded2daworld]

The examples you gave had nothing to do with the written history of the Jews and/or the things God said happened. Are you saying you don't know if Jesus believed the old testament writings to be true? I think Jesus, being the word of God believed the word of God.

[micah7:9]

I believe.......Jesus....."being the word of God believed the word of God."  In another words I don't think it. :HeartThrob:

And  :iagree: "My point is, we don't know whether Jesus "believed" them to be historical or allegorical, and we have no basis for believing He believed one way or the other." :dsunny: