Dirty Words? or Filthy Communication?

[jabcat]

Yeah, see, psychology's not totally useless after all!!   :laugh:

One old pastor said, "when we get squeezed, love should come out".  Unfortunately, that's often not what comes out of me. 

Wanted to add, yes I also believe God knows our thoughts, attitudes, and intents, etc.  He's the final Judge.  We can proclaim, share, reason together, and in the end it's up to Him.

[Lazarus Short]

There is another aspect to all this.  Have you ever read literature from, say, the 19th century?  The best of it was well constructed, erudite, articulate, and with a wide-ranging vocabulary.  I can't help but think of what Ferrar Fenton said in the dedication page of his Bible version:  "I dedicate...and to whom the English language, in its developed power, is the mother tongue..."  Now, I don't want to disparage any other language here, but whatever your language is, proper use of it has a lot to do with your mental functioning, at least in your ability to conceptualize and express yourself.  When we were school children, we did not suspect that all those pesky English usage rules were being taught to us to build up our minds, now did we?  To demonstrate my point, consider cursing/swearing in the Bible, versus what we hear in the secular world today.  I recall reading in the OT the formula, "God do unto me, and more also, if..."  Compare that with the "F-bomb."  The saddest thing about vulgar language, once you get beyond the shock value, is the realization that the F-bomber is mentally limited because s/he lacks the ability to express thoughts in a coherent, articulate manner.  I recall that the Bible states that in the Kingdom, we will be speaking a pure language, and I think pure language is one aspect to our regeneration beyond the veil. 

[CHB]

Well, I know one thing, the meaning of some words have changed since I was a teenager, such as "pot" "grass" "speed" "weed" "grind" there are probably a lot more that I can't think of right now.

CHB

[jbertonbounds]

Let me tell y'all how I began thinking about writing on this subject.  There was just too much in our protestant doctrine that simply did not make sense to me.  I was growing increasingly uncomfortable with religion.  I began to question many things.  That was God's way of calling me out of man's church/religion.  One of the key issues (I have written on other subjects, which I will share as the Spirit leads me) was the use of language.  What didn't make sense to me was that you can say one form of a word, while another form of the same word (it's synonym) was "dirty."  For example, you can say "screw," but not "f---."  You can say "crap," "bull," "malarky," "poop," and even "doodoo," but not "s---."  You can say "heck," but not "hell."  You can say "butt," "booty," "hiney," "rearend," and "fanny," but not "a--."  I call these bleeped words "tabooed words."  How, pray tell, did those tabooed words ever come to be tabooed in the first place?  Who had the authority to condemn those particular words and approve other words?  Why did they not taboo all of them?  Do the scriptures tell us which of the synonyms are OK?  Or did it come from the traditions of man?  Is it out of God's precepts? 

All this goes to show just how easily man's traditions and culture become a part of us, and how easily we can slip into Pharisee-istic rule-making that really does not reflect God's precepts - and that is exactly what has happened in the protestant church over the past several centuries.  These extra man-made rules build up over time and become a weight around our necks.  Then when we tell people about the gospel, they immediately associate it with all those burdensome, unnecessary rules, combined with the herecy of the ET doctrine.  Now tell me, what is there about that sort of gospel message that the average person should want?  It conveys the message that we should be good so that we won't burn in hell!  Is that the message we are to take to the world?  I say, "no, thank you;" and the world will say "no, thank you!"

Nevertheless, certain words are tabooed in our culture.  We work within the framework of cultural boundaries.  We cannot ignore Apostle Paul's advise to be sensitive to cultural expectations.  As a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words.  However, there is no need to feel guilty if you use an expletive when you hit your finger with a hammer as long as you do it with a clear conscience.  Remember, it's all in how you use words in conjunction with other words (sentences which communicate thoughts).  A word by itself cannot be dirty.  Once again, I repeat, as a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words.

[redhotmagma]

Let me tell y'all how I began thinking about writing on this subject.  There was just too much in our protestant doctrine that simply did not make sense to me.  I was growing increasingly uncomfortable with religion.  I began to question many things.  That was God's way of calling me out of man's church/religion.  One of the key issues (I have written on other subjects, which I will share as the Spirit leads me) was the use of language.  What didn't make sense to me was that you can say one form of a word, while another form of the same word (it's synonym) was "dirty."  For example, you can say "screw," but not "f---."  You can say "crap," "bull," "malarky," "poop," and even "doodoo," but not "s---."  You can say "heck," but not "hell."  You can say "butt," "booty," "hiney," "rearend," and "fanny," but not "a--."  I call these bleeped words "tabooed words."  How, pray tell, did those tabooed words ever come to be tabooed in the first place?  Who had the authority to condemn those particular words and approve other words?  Why did they not taboo all of them?  Do the scriptures tell us which of the synonyms are OK?  Or did it come from the traditions of man?  Is it out of God's precepts? 

All this goes to show just how easily man's traditions and culture become a part of us, and how easily we can slip into Pharisee-istic rule-making that really does not reflect God's precepts - and that is exactly what has happened in the protestant church over the past several centuries.  These extra man-made rules build up over time and become a weight around our necks.  Then when we tell people about the gospel, they immediately associate it with all those burdensome, unnecessary rules, combined with the herecy of the ET doctrine.  Now tell me, what is there about that sort of gospel message that the average person should want?  It conveys the message that we should be good so that we won't burn in hell!  Is that the message we are to take to the world?  I say, "no, thank you;" and the world will say "no, thank you!"

Nevertheless, certain words are tabooed in our culture.  We work within the framework of cultural boundaries.  We cannot ignore Apostle Paul's advise to be sensitive to cultural expectations.  As a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words.  However, there is no need to feel guilty if you use an expletive when you hit your finger with a hammer as long as you do it with a clear conscience.  Remember, it's all in how you use words in conjunction with other words (sentences which communicate thoughts).  A word by itself cannot be dirty.  Once again, I repeat, as a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words.

That is almost identical to the way I see it, and especially the first paragraph explains the thought process that I have gone through on coming to this conclusion. 

[jbertonbounds]

Red,
I think many of us probably have gotten where we are through the same process of frustration.  But more than that, the Spirit is calling more and more people out of man's church and doctrine, and into the true light.

It is SO exciting!

[ded2daworld]

CHB-
How about mouse, floppy, gay, coke,toots, head, neck, screw, spoon, queer, crack, ho(e), fag, blow, kinky
wicked, bad, twitter, tweet, web, rap, axe, aids, lame, boner, bomb, hooking up, faggot, swipe, G-string,surf
green, dog, flick, track. prick, member, hood, purge, pound, mobile, stalk, pad, copy, partner, chat, digest, sponge,
pond scum. douche, scan, psychic, hot, digital, sick, stink, dude, burn, chops, rave, tape, spam, cell, server, post, thread,
text, phone, whipped, spin, clown, ecstacy, slept with, engine, ...and probably even more

It seems ordinairy words can become "filthy words" but filthy words don't ever become words used in church(polite conversation)

 

[jbertonbounds]

Apostle Paul's advise was to abstain from filthy communication, not filthy words.  Most of the time it takes more than one word to convey a complete thought.  Sometimes we communicate by using a single word, but there are usually other words in the thought being communicated that are understood but not spoken.  Most of the words you listed have true meanings (ie. gay means cheerful, queer means odd), but then also have a newer meaning unofficially added to our language to change their meanings into slang.  The words themselves can be harmless or hurtful, depending upon how they are used or misused - in conjunction with other words.  Alone, they are all benign.  Take marijuana, for example.  It is a beautiful plant, was created by God, and serves it's purpose in the environment, just like all other plants.  But when it is used in the wrong way by humans, the use of it becomes sin.  The substance itself is not the sin.  It's the misuse of it, because it hurts people.  Like so with words.  They become dirty when they hurt others in any way, whether it be slander or in repelling people from the gospel by violating cultural boundaries.

[jabcat]

jberton, i'm removing my posts..i've said enough already...once something's shared, and the scrips are explored/explained as best we can, it's between God and the person.  "What right have you to judge another's servant?" 

For me, I've been convicted to believe I should seek to keep my conversation clean and helpful in all ways.  Be angry and sin not, etc.  Among others, my impatience, sarcasm, and sharp demeaning of others is one of my main struggles with my tongue - which comes from my heart/attitudes.  I often fail.  Blessings.

[marie glen]

Red,
I think many of us probably have gotten where we are through the same process of frustration.  But more than that, the Spirit is calling more and more people out of man's church and doctrine, and into the true light.

It is SO exciting!

I agree! :smile: yet humans always seem to be so liable to go from one extreme into another.. or more exactly from one pole or extreme of something, to the exact opposite pole. Look at sexual mores. From a generation or however many, thinking all sex was something shameful and degrading (forget how God created all things, all matter, including the body and marriage, and said "it's all good!") - Give humans just a little while, and the next generation discovers or rediscovers 'free' love! (Not so free, women raising their children alone, often in poverty or dependence on ever growing government, and having to settle for a series of relationships.) But, from one extreme to the total opposite. So hard to be logical.. to come down in the middle of an issue. That anything that makes babies, beautiful little babies, and draws a man and woman closer, was created by God.. is something beautiful and sacred. Marriage, that is and all that entails.

So what am I saying? I just hope we can curtail that so prevalent human tendency to throw out the baby (no pun intended! :laughing7: ) with the bath water.. And I certainly and most surely hope some, or not many, that is, will want to toss out the Bible. UR is most plainly in the Bible. Most things of the Bible are very plain. And what isn't plain to us can be seen plainly by prayerfully using cross references.. all of them on a topic.. and by digging into the original words, thus intent.

I find many strongly held arguments to be simply a matter of both poles being true! One side/pole insisting their view is the only one. Never listening, just talking. Even if it offends or makes someone feel less than welcome. The way of peace comes hard to us. Should we bear false witness? No. Should we gossip and delight in other's mistakes, spreading them around, perhaps embellishing a little? No. Should we call people names? No. Do we have to accept all things and all lifestyles as ok? or can we recognize that God still decides good and evil, right and wrong, true and untrue, what works from what doesn't? And we can still not embrace the lifestyle, but love and embrace the person.. Should we go around cussing like a drunken sailor?  :ghaha: no, I don't think so. If I should slip up, in some small fashion, or even not so small (in words) do I have to be mortified? Of course not. If it is sin to me, I can apologize to my Lord.. (Unless I've been mean, then I can feel mortified!!) I know a lot of unbelievers judge believers, with a lot harsher judgment than they do their self or their friends. But like Romans chapter 14, if, to a believer, saying damn, or hell, isn't considered cussing or bad communication, let them have it to their self before God..

[jabcat]

marie glen, beautiful post.  amen.

[CHB]

CHB-
How about mouse, floppy, gay, coke,toots, head, neck, screw, spoon, queer, crack, ho(e), fag, blow, kinky
wicked, bad, twitter, tweet, web, rap, axe, aids, lame, boner, bomb, hooking up, faggot, swipe, G-string,surf
green, dog, flick, track. prick, member, hood, purge, pound, mobile, stalk, pad, copy, partner, chat, digest, sponge,
pond scum. douche, scan, psychic, hot, digital, sick, stink, dude, burn, chops, rave, tape, spam, cell, server, post, thread,
text, phone, whipped, spin, clown, ecstacy, slept with, engine, ...and probably even more

It seems ordinairy words can become "filthy words" but filthy words don't ever become words used in church(polite conversation)

Wow ded, all of those?  Maybe that is why Jesus said in Matt 5:37) But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil".

CHB

[jbertonbounds]

Marie, that sums it up very nicely.  Thanks.  It brought this scripture to mind:
Romans 14:21-23 [YLT]

21 Right [it is] not to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor to [do anything] in which thy brother doth stumble, or is made to fall, or is weak.

22 Thou hast faith! to thyself have [it] before God; happy is he who is not judging himself in what he doth approve,

23 and he who is making a difference, if he may eat, hath been condemned, because [it is] not of faith; and all that [is] not of faith is sin.

Many replies to this post have pretty much said just what this scripture passage is saying.

[marie glen]

 :gthumbsup:  :gsmile:

[shawn]

Here's one I learned from psychology.
What happens when you squeeze an orange? Orange juice comes out.
Why does orange juice come out? Because that's what is inside.

What happens when a human is squeezed(under pressure)?
Whatever comes out, (filthy language, praises to God, excuses, thank you Jesus, blame, etc.) comes out because that is what is really inside.

Man sees the action.  God sees the motive. 

[shawn]

Let me tell y'all how I began thinking about writing on this subject.  There was just too much in our protestant doctrine that simply did not make sense to me.  I was growing increasingly uncomfortable with religion.  I began to question many things.  That was God's way of calling me out of man's church/religion.  One of the key issues (I have written on other subjects, which I will share as the Spirit leads me) was the use of language.  What didn't make sense to me was that you can say one form of a word, while another form of the same word (it's synonym) was "dirty."  For example, you can say "screw," but not "f---."  You can say "crap," "bull," "malarky," "poop," and even "doodoo," but not "s---."  You can say "heck," but not "hell."  You can say "butt," "booty," "hiney," "rearend," and "fanny," but not "a--."  I call these bleeped words "tabooed words."  How, pray tell, did those tabooed words ever come to be tabooed in the first place?  Who had the authority to condemn those particular words and approve other words?  Why did they not taboo all of them?  Do the scriptures tell us which of the synonyms are OK?  Or did it come from the traditions of man?  Is it out of God's precepts? 

All this goes to show just how easily man's traditions and culture become a part of us, and how easily we can slip into Pharisee-istic rule-making that really does not reflect God's precepts - and that is exactly what has happened in the protestant church over the past several centuries.  These extra man-made rules build up over time and become a weight around our necks.  Then when we tell people about the gospel, they immediately associate it with all those burdensome, unnecessary rules, combined with the herecy of the ET doctrine.  Now tell me, what is there about that sort of gospel message that the average person should want?  It conveys the message that we should be good so that we won't burn in hell!  Is that the message we are to take to the world?  I say, "no, thank you;" and the world will say "no, thank you!"

Nevertheless, certain words are tabooed in our culture.  We work within the framework of cultural boundaries.  We cannot ignore Apostle Paul's advise to be sensitive to cultural expectations.  As a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words.  However, there is no need to feel guilty if you use an expletive when you hit your finger with a hammer as long as you do it with a clear conscience.  Remember, it's all in how you use words in conjunction with other words (sentences which communicate thoughts).  A word by itself cannot be dirty.  Once again, I repeat, as a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words.

I wholehearted agree.  Keeping in mind not to offend people with the words we use, paying attention to situation and culture.

[marie glen]

I totally agree too! And this has to do with things that can be classed with "days and meats", not the weightier things like stealing, fraud, morality, etc. ROFL! But if we have the attitude of a Pharisee, we do no one any good; and usually people tend to have this toward others more than concerning self! :winkgrin: And if it is toward self, we still do no one, nor the gospel any good, for then we put ourselves under a dark cloud which hides the glory of the liberating gospel. Such I thing, I would tend to think of as having roots of some sort of trouble of the past or something, and the healing touch of our Lord needed.

[ded2daworld]

Meet the Flintstones, we'll have a yabba-a-dabba-do time, we'll have a gay old time. (circa 1960)
It's interesting (at least to me) that 1890-1899 was called the gay nineties.
100 hundred years later, it was called the exact same thing with a totally different meaning.

"They say good is bad and bad is good. "Dontcha know I'm bad, I'm bad, you know it."
"I'm not a goody two shoes" (This was an actual story where Goody Twoshoes was the hero and alsways did the right thing)
of course it became "bad" to be labeled that - or was it good cuz it was bad?
Is someone trying to blur lines of distinction???