To come to the truth of Universal Reconciliation, I first had to broaden my mind, throw out the world's precepts, and look at the Gospel through the new light that God was giving me. The more I searched, the more human precepts I found entangled in doctrine. But we must follow God's precepts alone. This essay sorts through the rubbish and establishes truth as given me by the Father. This essay has to do with the "filthy communication" of Collosians 3:8, "But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth." [KJV]
Through the years, I have so many times heard my parents, pastor, Sunday school teachers, friends, and other Christians criticize people for using "foul language." And true, at times it certainly was abusive language that prompted their response. However, there are forms of language abuse that are so commonly overlooked by Christians that they are never given any thought by most. Sometimes such abuse is carried on by "good upstanding Christians," and it can be so powerful that it can destroy lives. Consider a family I once knew, that for this purpose I will call the Smiths. The Smiths were a fine Christian family. They were involved in a large local church, and striving to live lives that pleased God, and were teaching there two precious children God's precepts. However, when their family was about half raised another member of their church, for some unknown reason, told someone that Mr. Smith was a homosexual. Word so quickly spread around our small Southern town, that in a matter of days Mr. Smith was forced to resign both his career as a principle with the local school system and his position as music director in their church. Needless to say, the Smiths were devastated. Before the incident was over, they came to our church, which was located in another community, seeking love and support, which they received graciously from our loving congregation. Through the years, God has blessed the Smiths, and God has blessed that loving congregation. How have we as Christians come to put more emphasis on abstaining from using "dirty words" than abstaining from the type of language abuse that destroys people?
First, let us differentiate between language use and language abuse. Language is the means by which we most often communicate our thoughts and intensions to others. If we abuse language, we use it in a negative way to either hurt other people, deceive other people for self gain, or to project ourselves above other people. The main types of language abuse in our society today are: gossip – the passing along of information without regard for truth; slander – the telling of lies against another person; curses – the pronouncement of ill will or judgmental condemnation upon another; lies used as tools for dishonest gain; name-calling and making fun of others – the putting down on others using degrading terms or misusing humor in order to build oneself up; and sexually immoral communication – which is well defined in the scriptures. In any case, these abuses of language are clearly sinful, because they are contrary to God's precepts.
I believe it is of profound importance to the individual to have a clear understanding of the definition of the term "language abuse," or "filthy communication." Without this clarity of definition embedded in the Christian's mind, he is surely on a road that will lead him astray from God's will by causing him to overlook certain forms of language abuse that may be present in his own lifestyle. Two of these types of language abuse are of particular concern to many believers. Many people who proclaim to be Christians participate in gossip on a regular ongoing basis. Gossip is usually full of supposition, and is, therefore, usually slanderous. Slanderers are among those listed in the scriptures who will face judgement! Name-calling and making fun of others are equally as common as gossip. So many times we call others names and try to make people laugh at another person, either in our private thoughts or openly. These names and jokes are often degrading and/or slanderous, and, therefore, abusive. We try, thereby, to build ourselves up; but you can be sure that God will tear down the self-made man. Unless God builds us up, we fall. Using these types of language is certainly as sinful as many people believe using "dirty words" is, mainly because it hurts others and can actually damage other's self esteem and cause depression and anxiety when they find out about it – and they quite often do.
Curses run a close third to gossip and degrading others. This is where there is much confusion about language abuse in our society, and cursing comes in forms that most Christians have never conceived. The word "curse" is commonly misused, being used interchangeably with the slang word "cuss." We have defined "curse," so let's differentiate it from "cuss." To cuss is to use language that is considered offensive to others in our society. But should we not be more concerned about what is offensive to our creator? Granted, it is important and prudent for social reasons to abstain from any activity that commonly offends others, so as not to repel people from the gospel, but let us not place more importance on that than on language that abuses other people. Language that, in God's sight, abuses other people is sinful, just like anything else that hurts other people. God frowns on that big time! Granted, using offensive language, or "dirty words," may be unwise and sinful from a christian perspective if it is used in a context that repels people from the gospel.
Of utmost importance in this discussion is to understand what it is that God's Word refers to as "filthy communication." God forbids filthy communication (Colossians 3:8, KJV), and this is where it gets interesting. We must first determine who is speaking in this scripture. That's easy. It is scripture. Therefore, it is God who is speaking. Since it is God who is speaking, then we must determine just what it is that God is calling "filthy communication." What is filthy to God? In a word, sin. Then filthy communication must be the same thing as sinful language usage – the putting together of words to communicate thoughts or messages to others that are evil in God's sight. The words themselves are not sinful. It is in how they are used in conjunction with other words to communicate to other people.
We have already defined the most common ways language is used sinfully. But it is important to notice that none of these involved the use of single words independently from other words. So then how is it that people in our society have come to refer to individual words as "dirty?" How can a single word in itself be dirty? Are not some words considered "dirty" in some parts of the country, and other words "dirty" in other regions? I find this level of human reasoning to be ignorant! This is nothing more than human reasoning and human precepts. Granted, some words are certainly more sensitive than others, but that does not make them dirty. They all have their proper place in our language.
The reality is, words rarely stand alone, but rather they are used in conjunction with other words to form complete thoughts. That's how language works. In that sense, single words are benign of complete thoughts, and cannot be dirty. Words like "sh--" and "fu--" (and their synonyms that are considered offensive) are considered dirty and sinful by most Christians, but in reality they have the same true meaning as "manure" and "intercourse." Why is one considered dirty and another not? Some of our more sensitive words are commonly and carelessly used, not for their true meanings, but for alternative meanings, and are therefore no longer the same words in essence. For example, if I say, "I'm beat!," I am not saying I have been physically beaten. I am saying I am tired. In the same way, if I say, "I am tired of that crap!," I am not referring to manure. Rather, I am changing the meaning of the word "crap" to mean, say, "those things I find repusive." Or if I say, "That's a bunch of crap!," I am really saying that it is untrue, not that it is literally a large quantity of manure. To judge that a person has sinned because he has used a sensitive word in that sense, is poor reasoning, and is, in itself, a sin because it is judgmental. So tell me, now who has sinned? God gave us the ability to reason so that we would be able to come to Him. We are responsible for using our reasoning to know how to please Him. I do not believe that God is pleased with such careless reasoning (human precepts), any more than he is pleased with the careless and unwise public use of offensive slang terms. I do not take this stand on the use of single "dirty words" to say that it's ok to use them, but rather to demonstrate that the emphasis on language abuse has been shifted to what should have been benign language use to start with. In other words, most Christians have come to believe that bad language is nothing more than saying "dirty words," when the real problem lies among the reeds, unnoticed, like a crocodile waiting for its prey.
I believe these things within full faith in God. I also believe that, given the status quo concerning these matters (the social taboos that have been placed on certain words), that it is not wise to use the "dirty words." A christian could certainly do much harm in his world to the spreading of God's gospel message if he were to exercise his freedom in Christ to use these tabooed words freely. I do not believe that it is a sin in itself if he chooses to use a "dirty word," just unwise. Certainly it is unwise to practice anything that you know can be a hindrance to the spreading of the gospel, and therefore sinful. For example, given the beliefs of most Americans, it would be unwise to, and we ought not, use "dirty words" as an integral part of our language usage, as it would be incommensurate with our goal to spread to gospel. It could definitely repel people from the gospel, and would be, therefore, foolish. Again, that depends on where you are, and which tabooed words you use.
My concern in these matters is not about the freedom to use the tabooed words. Rather, it is about helping people understand that there are forms of language abuse commonly used among God's people, and many of them have no idea that they are doing wrong in God's sight. I have seen the lives of good God-fearing people ruined by slanderous gossip. I have heard so many people name-calling and putting down on others. This sort of abuse had a great negative impact on my own life growing up. All humans have sinned and fall short of God's glory. Who am I to put down on some else. Yet the same people would quickly inform you that you had sinned if you said a "dirty word." Ignorance! If I call someone a sinner, am I not also a sinner? If I call someone a jerk, am I not also a jerk in some way in God's sight? Have I never been a jerk to someone else? Oh boy, if you only knew! If I say to someone, "Go to hell!," I curse; but do I not deserve God's judgment? What if I say, "Drop dead?" Is that not a curse in the true sense of the word? If I say a particular person "will get what he deserves one day," do I not have a gleam in my eye as I speak, and does that not imply that I am a better person than he and do not deserve punishment for my own sins? And what if someone says of the man who has stolen, "He can pay for it now, or he will pay for it later in hell!" Are they not really hoping that he will pay for it later – in Hell?! Such thoughts and words are evil because they are polar opposites to God's will – not to mention that hell is a myth. These are the kinds of language abuse so common among Christians, yet they seem to go unrecognized by most Christians as sins. Dirty words? Grow up (in Christ, that is)! We have bigger fish to fry than that!
The real issue in abstaining from filthy language as God commanded us is not about cussing. It is about gossip – the passing along of information without regard for truth; slander – the telling of lies against another person; curses – the pronouncement of ill will or judgmental condemnation upon another; lies used as tools for dishonest gain; negative name-calling – the putting down on others using degrading terms in order to build oneself up; and sexually immoral communication (any of you guys ever participated in that in the office?). Let every believer open his mind and examine his own language usage to see if it contains "filthy communication" as defined by God, Himself, in His infinite wisdom, rather than that as defined by the world's precepts.
Thank you, that was both enlightening and sobering.
:iagree: very good post,I think.
I can remember..when I started going to 'church' and cleaning up my language so as
not to offend. So,I developed the habit of saying 'rats!' whenever I would stump my toe
or become frustrated etc. i thought I was doing a pretty good job...but alas....the 'church'
told me....it was a 'byword" therefore I could use no expletives.
so,according to 'some' no exclamitives are appropriate..so 'ouch" ooch...arghhh etc or even
'oh'
I agree it can be anything that's not helpful/profitable, including gossip, bearing false witness, etc. I agree, some discernment and seeking the Lord's personal leading is important, as some may be offended by "shoot". But IMO, the precept still includes anything vulgar [cursing, course language] that may be a bad witness to others. "If eating meat offends my brother, I won't eat meat.." Apostle Paul
I also think discernment, not being judgmental, again, looking to the Lord for guidance is important - as sometimes we're prone to take things too far one way or the other. For instance, some church groups believe it's a sin for a man's hair to touch his collar or to have a beard, etc. So I question "caving into" those type of restrictions. OTOH, I know of some believer's that think it's OK to curse God and openly use all kinds of filthy language the world finds so clever and enjoyable - even to the point of desiring to use it in their "ministering". So it seems there are some "reasonable" middle grounds? Not being so "over-righteous" that we've got ourselves and those around us walking on egg shells, while still being sensitive to the Holy Spirit and the whole use of language to begin with - to please and praise God and to help our fellow man. Paul used the word 'dung'. That's descriptive, and I believe it to be equal to 'manure'. But I can't personally imagine him preaching a sermon and mimicking a stand-up comedian or some of the rappers' language of today. :2c:
Quote from: jabcat on March 20, 2013, 09:30:15 PM
So it seems there are some "reasonable" middle grounds? Not being so "over-righteous" that we've got ourselves and those around us walking on egg shells
Hey Jabcat, that is the point exactly. When I first discovered this truth, I felt so liberated that I began to use any words I felt like using - where ever/when ever. My wife helped me become aware that, although I
am free, that does not mean it's appropriate or beneficial. I believe our brother, the Apostle Paul, said the same thing. Still, it is very liberating just to learn this truth. Now I don't feel guilty if I say certain words to myself, silently. Remember, the key is: use prudence.
:bigGrin:
Hey Sheila,
I was raised the same way. My mother would not even let us say "darn" or "gollee." It was her right to teach us as she saw fit, but I am teaching my children as I stated in the essay. Sometimes they cuss in front of me when they are frustrated, but that just lets me know that they are learning this truth, instead of the man-made, distorted version of the precept. You can bet I correct them when they truly do use filthy communication as I described in the essay.
There are times when I prefer the word crap, to stuff. When I am dealing with certain populations of people especially in early recovery, something I might say has more punch using a word unacceptable to use in church. Using some sort of "curse word" substitute IMO isn't more holy or righteous.
For me, dirty talk is talk that is sexual explicit, gossip, words that tear down others, words that glorify sin, course joking and the like. Just my 2 cents.
As a wise lady said to me once, God does not hesitate to call a whore a whore. ;)
Quote from: lomarah on March 20, 2013, 10:22:03 PM
As a wise lady said to me once, God does not hesitate to call a whore a whore. ;)
That's true. I bet there are other things though that
might be inappropriate to call her? :happygrin:
Haha I don't know. When it comes to Babylon... and all of her filth... some nasty words come to mind. Same with Satan. All of his "dung". Dung is dung is dung.
Sheila what's that word you used that time... God is not... something... ? But basically He calls a whore a whore is the point. He does not hold His tongue on account of being religious or "pious".
I love Him.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 20, 2013, 09:02:40 PM
Thank you, that was both enlightening and sobering.
Thank you Laz... whenever you state a post to be profound, enlightening... I am encouraged to read it no matter how long the post is. I will take the time to read it and very likely print it. Thanks.
I didn't get this reply off to you as I was repeatedly interrupted... and when I did get back to posting this reply, I noticed several other replies have been posted. So now, I've thanked you and I'm off to reading the post and all those replies.
sanctimoniousness............there is a false-religious idea of this.......see Pharisees and sadducees when
a sinful woman was wiping Jesus feet with her tears.
it is further evidenced here Isaaih 65;5...who say..."keep away! don't come near me,
FOR I AM TOO SACRED FOR YOU!!" such people are a smoke in my nostrils...a fire
that keeps burning all day.
Mt 9;11 why does your teacher eat with tax-collectors and sinners?
...I gotta share..as found it funny......my daughter joined a drug-rehab religious org..that ministered
to drug-addicts...and she slipped and said..piss or some such thing...and two sisters jumped her about it...
....so she said..it's in the scripture..every man that pisseth on the wall....well...they looked at each other
in somewhat of a quandry...and didn't know what to do or say. one sister said 'well..it is in there"
God will call a spade a spade..whether it sounds nice or not. But I tell you..there are some people
who are holier than God!! They would not use the speech that God used in scripture...too base/coarse
Yessssss that was it! Good post Sheila and a hearty amen from lo. :thumbsup:
Sheila, that's funny.
I am reminded of this passage:
Matthew 11:18, "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds." [ESV]
This makes me think of the old saying, "can't win for losing."
Except, of course, we are on the winning side.
But no matter what you do, someone will shake their head in disapproval. We must be led by the Spirit and He will not guide us wrong. Jesus was sharply criticized many times, and even "kicked out of church!" so to speak. But the Spirit lead him in God's will right to the cross.
Wow!
..hey....I don't condone filthy foul language...for this is what I
have expierenced..even with my own family...that filthy coarse speech..affects me in a strange way..
...I feel like puking when I am surrounded by it. the other day in the car....
a family member was speaking so..coarse and foul..that I said something to them about it...
my heart just hurt over it.........
Sheila,
I don't like to hear it either, especially out loud in a public place - I find that very uncomfortable. It is against the way I was raised. But that is a cultural issue, not to be confused with Godly precepts. The focus of the essay was to pinpoint the forms of language use that are actually against God's precepts, and distinguish them from those that merely violate cultural precepts.
:thumbsup:
Well, I have read and printed the OP. Thanks so much Jbertonbounds... very helpful, thoughtfilled material...thanks for sharing this with us. It was for me a timely reminder as I'm in the midst of composing my Spring family/friends good news letter.
I sincerely thank you Jberton, for sharing that with us, I learnt a lot from your post. :HeartThrob:
Thanks for that clarification sheila. :thumbsup: I appreciate that. Sounds like the Spirit in you was grieved.
On another note, I guess it's a good thing the forum has built-in language filters.
Quote from: lomarah on March 20, 2013, 10:31:34 PM
God is not... something... ? But basically He calls a whore a whore is the point. He does not hold His tongue on account of being religious or "pious".
Do you believe God would use the language of Richard Pryor though in expressing Himself? Or condone it for us? IMO, there's a big difference between crap or whore, and some other words that come to mind. I had a brother tell me he had a "fantasy" of "sharing the gospel of all saved and dropping the 'f' bomb" to those he was sharing with.
If anyone believes that's OK and their conscience allows it, then that's up to them and God. I'm not their judge. But I personally disagree, and honestly - I believe as one matures in their walk, they'll find a "middle ground". A place where they're not prudish and rejecting of people because of their language, while at the same time being sensitive to the Holy Spirit's leading as to what pleases God and is helpful to others (often, the same thing) - and may even be used of God to help others mature. :2c:
Quote from: jabcat on March 21, 2013, 02:37:50 AM
Quote from: lomarah on March 20, 2013, 10:31:34 PM
God is not... something... ? But basically He calls a whore a whore is the point. He does not hold His tongue on account of being religious or "pious".
Do you believe God would use the language of Richard Pryor though in expressing Himself? Or condone it for us? IMO, there's a big difference between crap or whore, and some other words that come to mind. I had a brother tell me he had a "fantasy" of "sharing the gospel of all saved and dropping the 'f' bomb" to those he was sharing with.
If anyone believes that's OK and their conscience allows it, then that's up to them and God. I'm not their judge. But I personally disagree, and honestly - I believe as one matures in their walk, they'll find a "middle ground". A place where they're not prudish and rejecting of people because of their language, while at the same time being sensitive to the Holy Spirit's leading as to what pleases God and is helpful to others (often, the same thing) - and may even be used of God to help others mature. :2c:
Sometimes when approaching those who are ill, it helps to speak their language. I'm not saying to drop f bombs but coming across as too pious in some circles shuts doors. I'm not above meeting someone where they are so they can hear what I am saying. For me, there is no difference in the "curse word" and the substitute other than some circles are offended by it. I think that has little to do with maturity.
Personally I get "grieved" I guess you could call it, when people are cursing frequently and especially around my children, or any child for that matter. I'm not sure who Richard Pryor is (name rings a bell...).
I think He calls dung dung lol. I certainly don't think He'd go around cursing for the sake of cursing, no, my point was that He would call poop poop is all.
Quote from: lomarah on March 21, 2013, 03:16:03 AM
Personally I get "grieved" I guess you could call it, when people are cursing frequently and especially around my children, or any child for that matter. I'm not sure who Richard Pryor is (name rings a bell...).
I think He calls dung dung lol. I certainly don't think He'd go around cursing for the sake of cursing, no, my point was that He would call poop poop is all.
Thanks for that. The more we talk about some of these things, the more is clarified so it doesn't sound as wild as at first. :)
(Richard Pryor was a "comedian" who had a filthy mouth. I guess some people thought it was funny.)
Quote from: shawn on March 21, 2013, 03:02:42 AM
Quote from: jabcat on March 21, 2013, 02:37:50 AM
Quote from: lomarah on March 20, 2013, 10:31:34 PM
God is not... something... ? But basically He calls a whore a whore is the point. He does not hold His tongue on account of being religious or "pious".
Do you believe God would use the language of Richard Pryor though in expressing Himself? Or condone it for us? IMO, there's a big difference between crap or whore, and some other words that come to mind. I had a brother tell me he had a "fantasy" of "sharing the gospel of all saved and dropping the 'f' bomb" to those he was sharing with.
If anyone believes that's OK and their conscience allows it, then that's up to them and God. I'm not their judge. But I personally disagree, and honestly - I believe as one matures in their walk, they'll find a "middle ground". A place where they're not prudish and rejecting of people because of their language, while at the same time being sensitive to the Holy Spirit's leading as to what pleases God and is helpful to others (often, the same thing) - and may even be used of God to help others mature. :2c:
Sometimes when approaching those who are ill, it helps to speak their language. I'm not saying to drop f bombs but coming across as too pious in some circles shuts doors. I'm not above meeting someone where they are so they can hear what I am saying. For me, there is no difference in the "curse word" and the substitute other than some circles are offended by it. I think that has little to do with maturity.
As with many/most topics, one thought or belief can lead to another discussion about what it actually/FULLY means - also, I'm not saying I've personally got any of this down perfectly, just what I believe to be true and goals to move toward with God's grace and help.
Shawn, s/w incidentally, but what you reference with having to do/not do with maturity (the words vs. substitutes), seems to be referencing something a little different than what I'd mentioned. My mention was more about "flagrant"use of curse words - i.e., "gutter mouth".
With that said; Re: maturity - Paul said "when I was a child I spoke as a child - when I became a man, I put away childish things". (Again, there could probably be quite a discussion as to what that FULLY means). I don't think there's a "sanctioned list" of acceptable words :laugh:, but I see you do make the distinction between crap and the 'f' word. :thumbsup: If someone walks around constantly using the 'f' word, taking God's name in vain etc., while claiming themselves a believer - then I personally believe it certainly can be related to maturity [and/or understanding].
I'm pretty sure we agree that whatever you, me, or anyone does is of course between us and God and according to our own conscience. We're expressing opinions and understandings though, and this is mine. I only agree with "speaking someone's language" to a certain extent. I think the older I've gotten, the more I believe there's room for one to be oneself. Again, you made a distinction, provided your own "limits", rather than condoning/using an all-out vulgar barrage. But for general discussion, if "speaking someone's language"
were to mean cursing and swearing, basically talking in as vulgar a manner as they are - right now I personally disagree with that.
This conversation has reminded me of something. In the 80's, shortly after I'd started in Community Mental Health, I toyed around with using a few "off-color" words at the recommendation of some professional trainer along the way. However, it really wasn't me, I wasn't really comfortable with it, and I suspect it probably showed - basically defeating the goal of seeming more approachable or whatever. The older I get, I guess I don't think that's as important as I did then. I'm 54 now, and met with a 17 year old the other day. I didn't have any chains hanging off me, have any ear rings or tattoos, or curse a blue streak - and by God's grace, it seemed to go OK. :) I'm not there yet (my wife may dispute that) but you know, old guys can wear plaid shirts and striped pants and it's OK - it's "just them. They're
unique". :laughing7:
Again, I'm sure there are hundreds of opinions as to what the following means, but as I understand, we're not supposed to conform to the world. No, I don't believe that means we should cross our hands, pucker our lips, and put on our stern pious face. So I don't believe 'not conforming to the world' means we reject them, condemn them, or speak to them in a language they can't understand. IMO, the language they'll understand is the language of the Spirit - not of the world. (I guess we each need to "work out our own salvation" as to how that applies to each of us.)
Well, just some thoughts. Blessings.
Great thread everyone .. Loved all the input and Original post
lots to consider
we are to Honor our Father , make Pappa Proud , all His children
Ps I personally battle at times some crude language, most curse words come from ''frustration'' guilt for it too ,and being ashamed , this is true and I dont want to be a liar on top of it , so I am coming clean , its good to confess your sins , yes its a sin when its not eating of faith , we consume alot of ''junk'' media , news , etc . world full of it .
Its having a humble and keeping the right mind , safe in prayer to the Lord , just what I HAVE to do regularly .
we were discussing the hubs and I , Pauls words on 1Cr 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
How easy it is for folks to ''pervert'' the Holy Word of God , I believe this is exactly what Paul is stressing in this chapter 1Cor 15 and Jbertonbounds is saying in the original post , unless I am just missing it by the miles here :doh:
For me , I have found its just best to keep the Law of God ''as a mirror'' in our own face and not worry so much about sticking that mirror in others faces , blinding them with all that Light , they become offended when falling down :sigh: and when you say , its not me , its the Lord , they dont want nothing to do with you or the Lord at that point , Does that Honor the Lord ? noooo , I use to not know what to do , but found as of late to just pray for them , while praying for my own inability to '' stay focused '' on doing what is right in the sight of God , I thank God for a conscience , but it says also , not to be lead by another mans conscience either ,
So we have our own narrow path to follow , already beaten out for us , what a journey so far , huh ? :)
Good post rosie.
I personally think the author of the article in the OP has a very good point about any words that don't edify/build up, but that rather tear down. However, I personally think he's s/w missing the other aspect - or at least sort of minimizing it - i.e., "filthy communication".
For consideration, the following is just a little different perspective than the article in the OP. (I didn't know the bolded below about "filthy communication", but it seems worth considering.)
Mike Riley at preacherfiles says,
"What Do The Inspired Scriptures Say?
Cursing (swearing, cussing, profanity) is certainly a sin according to the inspired Scriptures, no matter what a society says or accepts. The inspired apostle Paul tells us to "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers" (Ephesians 4:29). We are again warned by Paul to "put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth" (Colossians 3:8). In the Greek language, the phrase, "filthy communication" means foul speaking, low and obscene speech.
And bless you for the confession rosie. I fail too, things come out of my mouth that I don't believe should - usually, as you say, in a moment of high frustration. Good thing that in our weakness He is strong. Thanks and blessings.
Blessings to you James and your confessing as well , :friendstu:
Its not easy to to tame that tongue [language] no man can , James said in other words it takes the Lord Jesus to bridle it
I had just looked that up , Love what you brought up about Peter being so angry at himself and failure , his frustration spued "cursing " , I had read that long ago , but you remined me of it , Its so good to be reminded and freshen up our thoughts on these things . thanks you for that .
here , your post made me think , now the tongue being the organ of speech , and its fruits bearing of the tree we eat of life or death , being in the tongue , heavenly tongues or earthly tongues , I have eaten of both and life and death have been in the power of the tongue !
Jam 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; [it is] an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Strong's G1100 - glōssa
1) the tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech
2) a tongue
a) the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations
Deu 14:2 For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that [are] upon the earth.
Deu 26:18 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that [thou] shouldest keep all his commandments;
Tts 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
I believe these verses fit with praises to God and a thankful heart
for me its bitter in the belly and sweet on the lips at times , we are being judged as we speak , I just do believe that , and dont want to be ashamed , but if I am ashamed, I know its the Lord correcting his children in Love and do need His correction
Amen! :dsunny:
Thanks Rosie. :HeartThrob:
Question:
WWJP (what would Jesus post)?
:dunno2:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 20, 2013, 09:02:40 PM
Thank you, that was both enlightening and sobering.
:iagree: tho I do confess to scanning a bit.. I surely do think smearing someone or bearing false witness, any of that sort of thing is waay worse than cussing! I don't care how bad someone cusses.. still not as harmful as the other.. when it comes to non believers i don't even notice any cussing, well maybe if it's real bad, but I don't say anything that's for sure.. I wouldn't and don't say anything if they are a believer, either! I figure any imperfection/sin, it's the Holy Spirits job to convince of sin/flaw, not mine. Mine to love, and pray.. and shew myself friendly..
P.S - imagine someone thinking "O rats!" is cussing!
rofl..
Quote from: jabcat on March 21, 2013, 04:51:34 AM
Quote from: lomarah on March 21, 2013, 03:16:03 AM
Personally I get "grieved" I guess you could call it, when people are cursing frequently and especially around my children, or any child for that matter. I'm not sure who Richard Pryor is (name rings a bell...).
I think He calls dung dung lol. I certainly don't think He'd go around cursing for the sake of cursing, no, my point was that He would call poop poop is all.
Thanks for that. The more we talk about some of these things, the more is clarified so it doesn't sound as wild as at first. :)
(Richard Pryor was a "comedian" who had a filthy mouth. I guess some people thought it was funny.)
No kidding!! the world has gotten just awful!
p.s - Very interesting posts!! Lots of great points! :smile:
:laugh: religious-minded people can get pretty ridiculous....and they do...there are a lot of denominations
cults out there..with lots of traditions of men...that invalidate the word of God. That principality at work
in Israel's leaders in Jesus day,is alive and well and still at work in the earth.
Quote from: jbertonbounds on March 21, 2013, 03:45:49 PM
Question:
WWJP (what would Jesus post)?
:dunno2:
Knowing Him... something hilariously ironic to get the point across... hehe I can just imagine what He would post.
Jesus would probably post a question to make us all think. :Chinscratch:
Quote from: jbertonbounds on March 21, 2013, 05:38:30 PM
Jesus would probably post a question to make us all think. :Chinscratch:
Exactly !
I know that sometimes , its just being in the right Spirit , the Holy One .
we do not always come in the right spirit or leave in the right spirit to recieve anything from the Lord :2c:
God can do anything to anyone at any time to ''lift them up'' out of the ''dead zone '' :dunno2:
does Jesus look at the outward appearance of the flesh..or at the inward spirit of the man?
Quote from: sheila on March 21, 2013, 05:56:56 PM
does Jesus look at the outward appearance of the flesh..or at the inward spirit of the man?
Yes looks upon the heart , the right :HeartThrob: for me I believe its wanting everyone to do well and be saved , our Hope is in the Lord
God does not hear the specific words we say, He hears the meaning that is coming from our hearts and the motives behind our speech. Like you said, the :HeartThrob:
While I was reading all the posts I thought of this verse, "whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God". I can't see saying dirty words as bringing any glory to God. If all those words didn't have a bad meaning behind them as we know them, then I would say they are nothing.
I sometimes turn the channel and come upon movies that the actors can't say two words all the way through the movie without saying the "f" word. I don't understand why they feel there is a need for this type of movie there are movies that don't have these words that are much better without those words.
CHB
Quote from: jbertonbounds on March 21, 2013, 06:05:03 PM
God does not hear the specific words we say, He hears the meaning that is coming from our hearts and the motives behind our speech. Like you said, the :HeartThrob:
Exactly.
Right CHB, and if it isn't the "f" word there is almost always at least one gratuitous sex scene. Where the "good" guy has to meet someone at a nudie bar, sometimes more than once, or within hours of meeting a beautiful girl for the very first time, the handsome hero has both their clothes off and..."it just happened" "we couldn't help ourselves" "we had to have each other". I'll admit though sometimes one refuses on the moral ground of knowing the person has at least a fake name they tell them. :sigh:
Quote from: CHB on March 22, 2013, 12:01:10 AM
While I was reading all the posts I thought of this verse, "whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God". I can't see saying dirty words as bringing any glory to God. If all those words didn't have a bad meaning behind them as we know them, then I would say they are nothing.
I sometimes turn the channel and come upon movies that the actors can't say two words all the way through the movie without saying the "f" word. I don't understand why they feel there is a need for this type of movie there are movies that don't have these words that are much better without those words.
CHB
:thumbsup: C and ded.
I believe God hears everything. Jesus said what's in our heart comes out of our mouth, and Paul said let no corrupt communication (low, course speech) come out of our mouth. That's what the scriptures say, so that leaves it up to everyone's own conscience and where we are in our individual walks. :2c:
Here's one I learned from psychology.
What happens when you squeeze an orange? Orange juice comes out.
Why does orange juice come out? Because that's what is inside.
What happens when a human is squeezed(under pressure)?
Whatever comes out, (filthy language, praises to God, excuses, thank you Jesus, blame, etc.) comes out because that is what is really inside.
Yeah, see, psychology's not totally useless after all!! :laugh:
One old pastor said, "when we get squeezed, love should come out". Unfortunately, that's often not what comes out of me.
Wanted to add, yes I also believe God knows our thoughts, attitudes, and intents, etc. He's the final Judge. We can proclaim, share, reason together, and in the end it's up to Him.
There is another aspect to all this. Have you ever read literature from, say, the 19th century? The best of it was well constructed, erudite, articulate, and with a wide-ranging vocabulary. I can't help but think of what Ferrar Fenton said in the dedication page of his Bible version: "I dedicate...and to whom the English language, in its developed power, is the mother tongue..." Now, I don't want to disparage any other language here, but whatever your language is, proper use of it has a lot to do with your mental functioning, at least in your ability to conceptualize and express yourself. When we were school children, we did not suspect that all those pesky English usage rules were being taught to us to build up our minds, now did we? To demonstrate my point, consider cursing/swearing in the Bible, versus what we hear in the secular world today. I recall reading in the OT the formula, "God do unto me, and more also, if..." Compare that with the "F-bomb." The saddest thing about vulgar language, once you get beyond the shock value, is the realization that the F-bomber is mentally limited because s/he lacks the ability to express thoughts in a coherent, articulate manner. I recall that the Bible states that in the Kingdom, we will be speaking a pure language, and I think pure language is one aspect to our regeneration beyond the veil.
Well, I know one thing, the meaning of some words have changed since I was a teenager, such as "pot" "grass" "speed" "weed" "grind" there are probably a lot more that I can't think of right now.
CHB
Let me tell y'all how I began thinking about writing on this subject. There was just too much in our protestant doctrine that simply did not make sense to me. I was growing increasingly uncomfortable with religion. I began to question many things. That was God's way of calling me out of man's church/religion. One of the key issues (I have written on other subjects, which I will share as the Spirit leads me) was the use of language. What didn't make sense to me was that you can say one form of a word, while another form of the same word (it's synonym) was "dirty." For example, you can say "screw," but not "f---." You can say "crap," "bull," "malarky," "poop," and even "doodoo," but not "s---." You can say "heck," but not "hell." You can say "butt," "booty," "hiney," "rearend," and "fanny," but not "a--." I call these bleeped words "tabooed words." How, pray tell, did those tabooed words ever come to be tabooed in the first place? Who had the authority to condemn those particular words and approve other words? Why did they not taboo all of them? Do the scriptures tell us which of the synonyms are OK? Or did it come from the traditions of man? Is it out of God's precepts?
All this goes to show just how easily man's traditions and culture become a part of us, and how easily we can slip into Pharisee-istic rule-making that really does not reflect God's precepts - and that is exactly what has happened in the protestant church over the past several centuries. These extra man-made rules build up over time and become a weight around our necks. Then when we tell people about the gospel, they immediately associate it with all those burdensome, unnecessary rules, combined with the herecy of the ET doctrine. Now tell me, what is there about that sort of gospel message that the average person should want? It conveys the message that we should be good so that we won't burn in hell! Is that the message we are to take to the world? I say, "no, thank you;" and the world will say "no, thank you!"
Nevertheless, certain words are tabooed in our culture. We work within the framework of cultural boundaries. We cannot ignore Apostle Paul's advise to be sensitive to cultural expectations. As a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words. However, there is no need to feel guilty if you use an expletive when you hit your finger with a hammer as long as you do it with a clear conscience. Remember, it's all in how you use words in conjunction with other words (sentences which communicate thoughts). A word by itself cannot be dirty. Once again, I repeat, as a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words.
Quote from: jbertonbounds on March 22, 2013, 04:53:07 PM
Let me tell y'all how I began thinking about writing on this subject. There was just too much in our protestant doctrine that simply did not make sense to me. I was growing increasingly uncomfortable with religion. I began to question many things. That was God's way of calling me out of man's church/religion. One of the key issues (I have written on other subjects, which I will share as the Spirit leads me) was the use of language. What didn't make sense to me was that you can say one form of a word, while another form of the same word (it's synonym) was "dirty." For example, you can say "screw," but not "f---." You can say "crap," "bull," "malarky," "poop," and even "doodoo," but not "s---." You can say "heck," but not "hell." You can say "butt," "booty," "hiney," "rearend," and "fanny," but not "a--." I call these bleeped words "tabooed words." How, pray tell, did those tabooed words ever come to be tabooed in the first place? Who had the authority to condemn those particular words and approve other words? Why did they not taboo all of them? Do the scriptures tell us which of the synonyms are OK? Or did it come from the traditions of man? Is it out of God's precepts?
All this goes to show just how easily man's traditions and culture become a part of us, and how easily we can slip into Pharisee-istic rule-making that really does not reflect God's precepts - and that is exactly what has happened in the protestant church over the past several centuries. These extra man-made rules build up over time and become a weight around our necks. Then when we tell people about the gospel, they immediately associate it with all those burdensome, unnecessary rules, combined with the herecy of the ET doctrine. Now tell me, what is there about that sort of gospel message that the average person should want? It conveys the message that we should be good so that we won't burn in hell! Is that the message we are to take to the world? I say, "no, thank you;" and the world will say "no, thank you!"
Nevertheless, certain words are tabooed in our culture. We work within the framework of cultural boundaries. We cannot ignore Apostle Paul's advise to be sensitive to cultural expectations. As a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words. However, there is no need to feel guilty if you use an expletive when you hit your finger with a hammer as long as you do it with a clear conscience. Remember, it's all in how you use words in conjunction with other words (sentences which communicate thoughts). A word by itself cannot be dirty. Once again, I repeat, as a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words.
That is almost identical to the way I see it, and especially the first paragraph explains the thought process that I have gone through on coming to this conclusion.
Red,
I think many of us probably have gotten where we are through the same process of frustration. But more than that, the Spirit is calling more and more people out of man's church and doctrine, and into the true light.
It is SO exciting!
CHB-
How about mouse, floppy, gay, coke,toots, head, neck, screw, spoon, queer, crack, ho(e), fag, blow, kinky
wicked, bad, twitter, tweet, web, rap, axe, aids, lame, boner, bomb, hooking up, faggot, swipe, G-string,surf
green, dog, flick, track. prick, member, hood, purge, pound, mobile, stalk, pad, copy, partner, chat, digest, sponge,
pond scum. douche, scan, psychic, hot, digital, sick, stink, dude, burn, chops, rave, tape, spam, cell, server, post, thread,
text, phone, whipped, spin, clown, ecstacy, slept with, engine, ...and probably even more
It seems ordinairy words can become "filthy words" but filthy words don't ever become words used in church(polite conversation)
Apostle Paul's advise was to abstain from filthy communication, not filthy words. Most of the time it takes more than one word to convey a complete thought. Sometimes we communicate by using a single word, but there are usually other words in the thought being communicated that are understood but not spoken. Most of the words you listed have true meanings (ie. gay means cheerful, queer means odd), but then also have a newer meaning unofficially added to our language to change their meanings into slang. The words themselves can be harmless or hurtful, depending upon how they are used or misused - in conjunction with other words. Alone, they are all benign. Take marijuana, for example. It is a beautiful plant, was created by God, and serves it's purpose in the environment, just like all other plants. But when it is used in the wrong way by humans, the use of it becomes sin. The substance itself is not the sin. It's the misuse of it, because it hurts people. Like so with words. They become dirty when they hurt others in any way, whether it be slander or in repelling people from the gospel by violating cultural boundaries.
jberton, i'm removing my posts..i've said enough already...once something's shared, and the scrips are explored/explained as best we can, it's between God and the person. "What right have you to judge another's servant?"
For me, I've been convicted to believe I should seek to keep my conversation clean and helpful in all ways. Be angry and sin not, etc. Among others, my impatience, sarcasm, and sharp demeaning of others is one of my main struggles with my tongue - which comes from my heart/attitudes. I often fail. Blessings.
Quote from: jbertonbounds on March 22, 2013, 05:15:12 PM
Red,
I think many of us probably have gotten where we are through the same process of frustration. But more than that, the Spirit is calling more and more people out of man's church and doctrine, and into the true light.
It is SO exciting!
I agree! :smile: yet humans always seem to be so liable to go from one extreme into another.. or more exactly from one pole or extreme of something, to the exact opposite pole. Look at sexual mores. From a generation or however many, thinking all sex was something shameful and degrading (forget how God created all things, all matter, including the body and marriage, and said "it's all good!") - Give humans just a little while, and the next generation discovers or rediscovers 'free' love! (Not so free, women raising their children alone, often in poverty or dependence on ever growing government, and having to settle for a series of relationships.) But, from one extreme to the total opposite. So hard to be logical.. to come down in the middle of an issue. That anything that makes babies, beautiful little babies, and draws a man and woman closer, was created by God.. is something beautiful and sacred. Marriage, that is and all that entails.
So what am I saying? I just hope we can curtail that so prevalent human tendency to throw out the baby (no pun intended! :laughing7: ) with the bath water.. And I certainly and most surely hope some, or not many, that is, will want to toss out the Bible. UR is most plainly in the Bible. Most things of the Bible are very plain. And what isn't plain to us can be seen plainly by prayerfully using cross references.. all of them on a topic.. and by digging into the original words, thus intent.
I find many strongly held arguments to be simply a matter of both poles being true! One side/pole insisting their view is the only one. Never listening, just talking. Even if it offends or makes someone feel less than welcome. The way of peace comes hard to us. Should we bear false witness? No. Should we gossip and delight in other's mistakes, spreading them around, perhaps embellishing a little? No. Should we call people names? No. Do we have to accept all things and all lifestyles as ok? or can we recognize that God still decides good and evil, right and wrong, true and untrue, what works from what doesn't? And we can still not embrace the lifestyle, but love and embrace the person.. Should we go around cussing like a drunken sailor? :ghaha: no, I don't think so. If I should slip up, in some small fashion, or even not so small (in words) do I have to be mortified? Of course not. If it is sin to me, I can apologize to my Lord.. (Unless I've been mean, then I can feel mortified!!) I know a lot of unbelievers judge believers, with a lot harsher judgment than they do their self or their friends. But like Romans chapter 14, if, to a believer, saying damn, or hell, isn't considered cussing or bad communication, let them have it to their self before God..
marie glen, beautiful post. amen.
Quote from: ded2daworld on March 22, 2013, 05:33:28 PM
CHB-
How about mouse, floppy, gay, coke,toots, head, neck, screw, spoon, queer, crack, ho(e), fag, blow, kinky
wicked, bad, twitter, tweet, web, rap, axe, aids, lame, boner, bomb, hooking up, faggot, swipe, G-string,surf
green, dog, flick, track. prick, member, hood, purge, pound, mobile, stalk, pad, copy, partner, chat, digest, sponge,
pond scum. douche, scan, psychic, hot, digital, sick, stink, dude, burn, chops, rave, tape, spam, cell, server, post, thread,
text, phone, whipped, spin, clown, ecstacy, slept with, engine, ...and probably even more
It seems ordinairy words can become "filthy words" but filthy words don't ever become words used in church(polite conversation)
Wow ded, all of those? Maybe that is why Jesus said in Matt 5:37) But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil".
CHB
Marie, that sums it up very nicely. Thanks. It brought this scripture to mind:
Romans 14:21-23 [YLT]
21 Right [it is] not to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor to [do anything] in which thy brother doth stumble, or is made to fall, or is weak.
22 Thou hast faith! to thyself have [it] before God; happy is he who is not judging himself in what he doth approve,
23 and he who is making a difference, if he may eat, hath been condemned, because [it is] not of faith; and all that [is] not of faith is sin.
Many replies to this post have pretty much said just what this scripture passage is saying.
:gthumbsup: :gsmile:
Quote from: ded2daworld on March 22, 2013, 05:23:21 AM
Here's one I learned from psychology.
What happens when you squeeze an orange? Orange juice comes out.
Why does orange juice come out? Because that's what is inside.
What happens when a human is squeezed(under pressure)?
Whatever comes out, (filthy language, praises to God, excuses, thank you Jesus, blame, etc.) comes out because that is what is really inside.
Man sees the action. God sees the motive.
Quote from: jbertonbounds on March 22, 2013, 04:53:07 PM
Let me tell y'all how I began thinking about writing on this subject. There was just too much in our protestant doctrine that simply did not make sense to me. I was growing increasingly uncomfortable with religion. I began to question many things. That was God's way of calling me out of man's church/religion. One of the key issues (I have written on other subjects, which I will share as the Spirit leads me) was the use of language. What didn't make sense to me was that you can say one form of a word, while another form of the same word (it's synonym) was "dirty." For example, you can say "screw," but not "f---." You can say "crap," "bull," "malarky," "poop," and even "doodoo," but not "s---." You can say "heck," but not "hell." You can say "butt," "booty," "hiney," "rearend," and "fanny," but not "a--." I call these bleeped words "tabooed words." How, pray tell, did those tabooed words ever come to be tabooed in the first place? Who had the authority to condemn those particular words and approve other words? Why did they not taboo all of them? Do the scriptures tell us which of the synonyms are OK? Or did it come from the traditions of man? Is it out of God's precepts?
All this goes to show just how easily man's traditions and culture become a part of us, and how easily we can slip into Pharisee-istic rule-making that really does not reflect God's precepts - and that is exactly what has happened in the protestant church over the past several centuries. These extra man-made rules build up over time and become a weight around our necks. Then when we tell people about the gospel, they immediately associate it with all those burdensome, unnecessary rules, combined with the herecy of the ET doctrine. Now tell me, what is there about that sort of gospel message that the average person should want? It conveys the message that we should be good so that we won't burn in hell! Is that the message we are to take to the world? I say, "no, thank you;" and the world will say "no, thank you!"
Nevertheless, certain words are tabooed in our culture. We work within the framework of cultural boundaries. We cannot ignore Apostle Paul's advise to be sensitive to cultural expectations. As a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words. However, there is no need to feel guilty if you use an expletive when you hit your finger with a hammer as long as you do it with a clear conscience. Remember, it's all in how you use words in conjunction with other words (sentences which communicate thoughts). A word by itself cannot be dirty. Once again, I repeat, as a general rule, we are wise to abstain from the public use of those tabooed words.
I wholehearted agree. Keeping in mind not to offend people with the words we use, paying attention to situation and culture.
I totally agree too! And this has to do with things that can be classed with "days and meats", not the weightier things like stealing, fraud, morality, etc. ROFL! But if we have the attitude of a Pharisee, we do no one any good; and usually people tend to have this toward others more than concerning self! :winkgrin: And if it is toward self, we still do no one, nor the gospel any good, for then we put ourselves under a dark cloud which hides the glory of the liberating gospel. Such I thing, I would tend to think of as having roots of some sort of trouble of the past or something, and the healing touch of our Lord needed.
Meet the Flintstones, we'll have a yabba-a-dabba-do time, we'll have a gay old time. (circa 1960)
It's interesting (at least to me) that 1890-1899 was called the gay nineties.
100 hundred years later, it was called the exact same thing with a totally different meaning.
"They say good is bad and bad is good. "Dontcha know I'm bad, I'm bad, you know it."
"I'm not a goody two shoes" (This was an actual story where Goody Twoshoes was the hero and alsways did the right thing)
of course it became "bad" to be labeled that - or was it good cuz it was bad?
Is someone trying to blur lines of distinction???