These guys run a youtube channel for the Swedenborg foundation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIMGNQT0gQ4
Has anyone studied Swedenborg (or read a few books?)
Thoughts?
I googled the guy and the organization and was intrigued.
Then I came upon some of the man's writing online, and saw some odd teachings.
He claims to have visited the heavens and the hells and claims there are 3 of each.
But then he starts to describe who goes where and some weird things:
"I will first say something about that excellent nation, the British.
The better individuals among the British people are at the center of all Christians This is because they have a profound intellectual light. This trait of theirs is not noticeable to anyone in the earthly world but it is obvious in the spiritual world. They owe this light to their freedom of thought and consequent freedom of speech and writing. (Among other peoples who have no such freedoms, the intellectual light is smothered because it has no outlet.)
Because of this the British in the spiritual world are assigned governors and are given preachers renowned for their scholarship and brilliance."
He then goes on to say where the Dutch, the Protestants, the Catholics, the Muslims, the Africans, the Jews etc go in the afterlife.
:doh:
Maybe he has some other good teachings, but seeing this really off base stuff makes me think I'll stay away.
He also doesn't believe in UR, he believes we put ourselves in one of the heavens or hells based on our own comfort level and that we stay there for eternity.
Hi;
I have an uncle who clings to the teachings of Swedenborg; this came about because his son committed suicide, and the teaching of Swedenborg gave my uncle the "assurance" of his son being ok, and working his own salvation as he desired.
The actual teachings are all based on our works, and deny the sacrifice of Christ.
States that Jesus and God are one and the same.
Swedenborg claims to have spent 25 years going on regular trips to heaven. Ergo all based on visions.
Jesus states no sign except the cross.
Interesting the era he was from was where all the surrounding religions were putting out the teaching of hellfire a lot- so anything against that concept would be a way out for people.
Wikepedia cover some of his stuff.
Who was Swedenborg/the genius of Swedenborg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEa0e8AcS78
Again...I'm only looking for people who have studied his work for some time and understood what they read.
It's too easy to take his words out of context (i've done it many times myself).
Swedenborg wrote a LOT and (such is the manner with big (especially spiritual books)), they easily get misunderstood and taken out of context especially by people who have just scanned a few pages quickly online and made a judgement. (Which I'm guilty of myself sometimes).
I have researched some of Swedenborg though and there is more to him than can just be quickly denounced.
If such a thing as a genius exists then Swedenborg was truely one, which puts him off to a head start of most people, probably including all of us.
He claimed he saw Heaven yes, but so did St Paul (who came after Christ). (You have taken the line 'Jesus states no sign but the cross' out of context here)...A few generations out actually :laugh:
I don't have time to get into senseless debates about:- "Swedenborg States that Jesus and God are one and the same".
Yes...So? Didn't Jesus say: "I and my Father are one and the same". ?
Also if you are getting your 'facts' from Wikipedia I have to err on the side of caution lol.
If anyone has sincerely and seriously studied Swedenborg's work and it resonates with them please feel free to contact me so we can discuss.
I won't be sharing anymore on this thread.
Thank you.
Emanuel Swedenborg as a young man he became renowned for his mechanical inventions, and has since been compared with Leonardo da Vinci for this aspect of his achievement. He drew up plans, for instance, for a submarine and a glider aircraft. Among his hobbies were watchmaking, bookbinding and lens grinding (the profession of the 17th-century Dutch philosopher Baruch Spinoza), which he learned in Holland. In 1716 he was appointed to the position of Assessor of the Royal College of Mines (the mining industry, both copper and iron, being of paramount importance for the Swedish economy) and held this post for thirty-one years. He was engaged in various administrative and technical duties in connection with this important industry and he was later to write a treatise on iron and other metals. In 1719 the family was ennobled and took the name 'Swedenborg' from the family homestead in central Sweden. Emanuel became a regular attender at the Riksdag, or House of Nobles, and made contributions on financial and economic matters and on foreign affairs until shortly before his death.
Inventor and Philosopher
In the physical sciences his achievements were great. He speculated about the nature of matter and the universe and anticipated the cosmology later formulated by Immanuel Kant (1724-1804) and Pierre Simon, marquis de Laplace (1749-1827) that the planets in the solar system originated in the solar mass.
He published a theoretical book on the physical sciences, The Principia; or, the First Principles of Natural Things, in 1734. Then, turning his attention to the human body, he studied its anatomy and physiology in an attempt to discover the seat of the soul. At one point he thought that the blood might be the carrier of the soul. Fifty years before the discovery of oxygen by Joseph Priestley (1732-1804) he came near to discovering how the lungs purify the blood. He also made discoveries about the brain and the nervous system which were well ahead of his own time.
In addition, he gave an accurate account of the importance of the cerebral cortex as the seat of the higher psychical functions. Later scientists have praised him for his insight into the function and importance of the ductless glands, particularly the pituitary gland. He also anticipated modern thinking on the left brain and right brain functions. His published works of this period include The Economy of the Animal Kingdom (1740-1) and The Animal Kingdom (1744-5). Published posthumously were The Cerebrum (1738-40), The Brain (1742-4) and The Generative Organs (1743)––a separate volume of The Animal Kingdom dealing with the human sexual organs and not translated into English until the middle of the 19th century.
Ok, I just meant that if he saw visions of people being divided up by country or religion and placed in different areas of heaven and hell, then where did those visions originate and how reliable is his testimony. Because I can't beleice "the Dutch" go to this area of heaven and "the British" over here etc. that's all I meant, was that when people claim visions we need to test this out and see if they are their own imaginings, from God, or somehow being deceived.
I did read a lot of impressive things about him and some of his theology seemed interesting. I haven't studied him but I did read through most of an over 100 page work by him last night in my interest.
Quote from: GodIsLove on February 11, 2019, 02:21:36 PM
Ok, I just meant that if he saw visions of people being divided up by country or religion and placed in different areas of heaven and hell, then where did those visions originate and how reliable is his testimony. Because I can't beleice "the Dutch" go to this area of heaven and "the British" over here etc. that's all I meant, was that when people claim visions we need to test this out and see if they are their own imaginings, from God, or somehow being deceived.
I did read a lot of impressive things about him and some of his theology seemed interesting. I haven't studied him but I did read through most of an over 100 page work by him last night in my interest.
It's ok I totally understand.
Some would accuse the bible itself of having 'chosen people' too though (entire nations (Israel for example), God 'hating' one person over another or favoring one more than the other; people being 'chosen' for their religion (faith?)...God having firstfruits and so on...
What I'm saying is that much is open to interpretation.
How reliable is Swedenborg's testimony? - That's what I'm trying to figure our 'GodIsLove'...
...Here we have a 'clearly' intelligent man...A genius by all accounts who in his 50's claims to have had 'unearthly' experiences.
Was he crazy? No...He showed no syptoms of being crazy but rather the opposite and much of what he says deeply resonates with many people, including extraordinary people like Helen Keller and the people running the Swedenborg YouTube channel are clearly inspired if one listens to them for long enough...The have deep spiritual knowledge...Some of the best I've personally heard in years. Much of what I have heard Swedenborg say resonates deeply with me, but not all of it, though sometimes I misunderstand and later have to correct myself.
I have a lot more study on Swedenborg to do for the time being.
All I can for certainty is that it's not just St Paul who has had spiritual experiences.
I, myself have had them and have spent my life trying to understand them and humbly seeking answers as a finite being trying to make sense of the infinite.
I believe all truth is common-sense clarified and in God's universe He is to be found in all things, not just one book.
Perhaps Swedenborg was deceived...But it's not something I'll be able to say for certainty until i've studied the man more in greater detail and (certainly to me) he deserves that due to his 'earthly' achievments and credentials and learning (which no doubt came about through his spirituality) and also because he was a man who spoke openly that the entire conventional church was 'deceived' way back in the day and spoke 'universally' at a time when it angered a lot of people. (Still does lol).
I also have to ask why such an intelligent man wrote countless books...years upon years of study and writing about spiritual things...and why if it was all fake?
I'll personally keep reading with an open mind for the time being.
I listened to some ,
not sure of all the heavens and earth stuff , but I do believe we can dismiss a testimony and it a God given one , if we allow ourselves to doubt the power of resurrection.........
I dont see it is based on our works , but faith in Jesus working in us , I believe Jesus is the reward [More of Him , strength and power to overcome the world and its lusts and desires ] for obedience to Gods Word just believing GODS WORD is true .
For me, have you ever heard of the truth hurts ? it stings when you really consider it is your fleshy desires that think its right , I call that an ego , or souls /lives without any instructions about God , most egos worship an unknown God , you ask them what makes you Love God ?
You would be surprised at some of the answers given , some believe it is because He loved us first .
That is a good answer and a broad answer and covers lots of other questions .
Some will say it is to keep them from hell and torment forever .
Some say , its both .
We read the truth will set us free .
Free from what , death ? an abundant life now ? this world and its evil presence ?
Sure thing it does indeed free us from a lot of suffering and fake works , appearing holy before men stuff .
The Word of God testifies of Itself , we have outside influences that stumble us up into traps and snares that make us doubt .
People all over that come clean and admit , I have been self righteous , I have sinned and have failed the test .
we cannot stop trying , that is no excuse .
Shame to me is somthing we all have the bear , Jesus was shamed relentlessly and rejected over and over again by many whom claimed to know God , and yet it says no one has ever come to the Father except though the Son of God
I think it is recognizing Him in peoples flesh , its a spirit that is loving and giving and caring for for others well being than its own self .
Simple stuff , when the yoke is easy and burden is light , but to me it is a humble attitude willing to share the things of God with one another without discrediting them .
For me , the biggest clue in the bible was a the spirit that accuses people before GOD in the day / light of knowing it and night/ it is sheer ignorance of what they believe is truth .
I can honestly see LOVE as creating every emotion possible to be felt and known unto mankind and yet it stems from love in one way or the other , self love or the Love of God
Gods Word says love everyone they way you love your own selves .
But this is the thing ,many do not love themselves enough to make a difference , I mean that in the sense of this , many fall down into the trap of addiction , they self medicate to numb the pain of self hatred , in may ways its is the lusts of the world , though sex addiction or drug addiction or work addiction , or even gaming and television addiction , social addiction , the list goes on and on really .
Not even realizing it is really working death in them .
I recall PAUL saying I was alive once without the law and when the law came it put me to death , but he considered the law was a good thing , so choosing the good out of the law of good and evil doing .
I see that sin IS DEATH , working in us and was showing him his error ,ITS DEAD works , no Life in it at all .
So the law was working in Him to produce Life and a good thing even though it was painful to experience it.
Romans 7 God's Law is Holy
...8But sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire.
For apart from the law, sin is dead.
9Once I was alive apart from the Law;
but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
10So I discovered that the very commandment that was meant to bring life actually brought death....
For me Paul was finally realizing to two very different natures and its fruits of doings .
Two paths and end of both , one narrow one leading to a never ending life and stay on it as your goal and prize , as the broad path always leads to destruction as we all can see the world is so full of self destruction , giving over to worldly lusts and desires that are so temporary and meaningless and vain
I am guilty of wanting God to do all the works for us and has made a way though HIS SON to do just that , but you have to keep making your thoughts rise up to HIM the cares of this life can sure choke the WORD OF GOD right out of you ...
the last thing you want to do when your stewing in anger and hate = death IS BEG for mercy from God , but if you beg for mercy on all , even your enemies the ones that hate you for being you Love can conquer the enemies within you and around you also .. and a win win all around , but waiting on the LORD is not as easy to do as it sounds , we like to do it on our own strength and fail the test , it seems ...
I think we have to be taught of God to love ourselves the way He loves us and shows us though many experiences to love others in the same Love of God ...
I've heard of "the Principia"..!
I have to think a pretty smart guy from what you've posted..
On a smaller scale, Mary Baker Eddy, I think, has written some very beautiful things, scripture based! Yet I disagree with her on some important points.. But one of these days I want to read a bit of her stuff.. The Jehovah witnesses are like that too.. What I like in both cases is the reference to paradise, earthly like, using bible verses..
Actually, I've never come across anybody or book, group or site, which I don't think errs in some way. :dontknow:
After the theory of evolution, western culture became very - not good - when it came to thought about other races and nations! Western Civilization, Christendom was it! Seen as "all that!" Lol. Ironically same theory has caused us to fall away, not really considered Christendom anymore.. So I'd be interested to know when Swedenborg lived.. before or after Darwin.. if before, haha, nevermind.. :laughing7:
(It's so easy to look things up these days though isn't it?)
What would you say might be the best thing of Swedenborg to read that sums up his studies and thought/ideas? Would that be the Principia? Is that work spiritual or scientific (physics?)
thanks :Peace2:
Quote from: rosered on February 11, 2019, 05:46:40 PM
I listened to some ,
not sure of all the heavens and earth stuff , but I do believe we can dismiss a testimony and it a God given one , if we allow ourselves to doubt the power of resurrection.........
I dont see it is based on our works , but faith in Jesus working in us , I believe Jesus is the reward [More of Him , strength and power to overcome the world and its lusts and desires ] for obedience to Gods Word just believing GODS WORD is true .
For me, have you ever heard of the truth hurts ? it stings when you really consider it is your fleshy desires that think its right , I call that an ego , or souls /lives without any instructions about God , most egos worship an unknown God , you ask them what makes you Love God ?
You would be surprised at some of the answers given , some believe it is because He loved us first .
That is a good answer and a broad answer and covers lots of other questions .
Some will say it is to keep them from hell and torment forever .
Some say , its both .
We read the truth will set us free .
Free from what , death ? an abundant life now ? this world and its evil presence ?
Sure thing it does indeed free us from a lot of suffering and fake works , appearing holy before men stuff .
The Word of God testifies of Itself , we have outside influences that stumble us up into traps and snares that make us doubt .
People all over that come clean and admit , I have been self righteous , I have sinned and have failed the test .
we cannot stop trying , that is no excuse .
Shame to me is somthing we all have the bear , Jesus was shamed relentlessly and rejected over and over again by many whom claimed to know God , and yet it says no one has ever come to the Father except though the Son of God
I think it is recognizing Him in peoples flesh , its a spirit that is loving and giving and caring for for others well being than its own self .
Simple stuff , when the yoke is easy and burden is light , but to me it is a humble attitude willing to share the things of God with one another without discrediting them .
For me , the biggest clue in the bible was a the spirit that accuses people before GOD in the day / light of knowing it and night/ it is sheer ignorance of what they believe is truth .
I can honestly see LOVE as creating every emotion possible to be felt and known unto mankind and yet it stems from love in one way or the other , self love or the Love of God
Gods Word says love everyone they way you love your own selves .
But this is the thing ,many do not love themselves enough to make a difference , I mean that in the sense of this , many fall down into the trap of addiction , they self medicate to numb the pain of self hatred , in may ways its is the lusts of the world , though sex addiction or drug addiction or work addiction , or even gaming and television addiction , social addiction , the list goes on and on really .
Not even realizing it is really working death in them .
I recall PAUL saying I was alive once without the law and when the law came it put me to death , but he considered the law was a good thing , so choosing the good out of the law of good and evil doing .
I see that sin IS DEATH , working in us and was showing him his error ,ITS DEAD works , no Life in it at all .
So the law was working in Him to produce Life and a good thing even though it was painful to experience it.
Romans 7 God's Law is Holy
...8But sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire.
For apart from the law, sin is dead.
9Once I was alive apart from the Law;
but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
10So I discovered that the very commandment that was meant to bring life actually brought death....
For me Paul was finally realizing to two very different natures and its fruits of doings .
Two paths and end of both , one narrow one leading to a never ending life and stay on it as your goal and prize , as the broad path always leads to destruction as we all can see the world is so full of self destruction , giving over to worldly lusts and desires that are so temporary and meaningless and vain
I am guilty of wanting God to do all the works for us and has made a way though HIS SON to do just that , but you have to keep making your thoughts rise up to HIM the cares of this life can sure choke the WORD OF GOD right out of you ...
the last thing you want to do when your stewing in anger and hate = death IS BEG for mercy from God , but if you beg for mercy on all , even your enemies the ones that hate you for being you Love can conquer the enemies within you and around you also .. and a win win all around , but waiting on the LORD is not as easy to do as it sounds , we like to do it on our own strength and fail the test , it seems ...
I think we have to be taught of God to love ourselves the way He loves us and shows us though many experiences to love others in the same Love of God ...
I've no idea what any of that has to do with Swedenborg but it was so well said I don't care!
Thanks for sharing!
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: marie glen on February 11, 2019, 06:08:29 PM
I've heard of "the Principia"..!
I have to think a pretty smart guy from what you've posted..
On a smaller scale, Mary Baker Eddy, I think, has written some very beautiful things, scripture based! Yet I disagree with her on some important points.. But one of these days I want to read a bit of her stuff.. The Jehovah witnesses are like that too.. What I like in both cases is the reference to paradise, earthly like, using bible verses..
Actually, I've never come across anybody or book, group or site, which I don't think errs in some way. :dontknow:
After the theory of evolution, western culture became very - not good - when it came to thought about other races and nations! Western Civilization, Christendom was it! Seen as "all that!" Lol. Ironically same theory has caused us to fall away, not really considered Christendom anymore.. So I'd be interested to know when Swedenborg lived.. before or after Darwin.. if before, haha, nevermind.. :laughing7:
(It's so easy to look things up these days though isn't it?)
What would you say might be the best thing of Swedenborg to read that sums up his studies and thought/ideas? Would that be the Principia? Is that work spiritual or scientific (physics?)
thanks :Peace2:
I'm in talks right now with people from the Swedenborg foundation. I'm uncertain whether he believed God becomes all in all. If he doesn't believe that...I don't believe Swedenborg. Apocatastasis is my belief...always has been and always will be. That may sound a bit 'closed-minded' of me (to be set in my belief) but Love (God) creates so it's obvious to me that love created all things and would natrually love and heal and restore and not leave anyone in their 'sins' in some 'hell'. I can't change that belief because it's not really a belief is it? It's a fact. Love loves.
As I say Marie, I'm still studying Swedenborg...He says some interesting things but I've not yet read enough to accept or denounce him with any certainty.
GodIsLove pointed out things earlier which doesn't put Swedenborg in a great light either, but we shall see...
Lol :dsunny:
:2c:I do know all men have places prepared of inheritance in the new heavens.all men who have ever lived It is the pattern
that the inheritance in Caanan.was set up to resemble..and there are 12'spiritual tribes'.that all men belong to.
the Holy city 12 foundations also. Each of us inherit in one of those.
Swedenborg doesn't believe in our atonement!
Also teaches that we work our way up and down to a layer of heaven that suits us.
I was thinking his physics might be very interesting.. I finally looked him up... Haven't found out yet if "the Principia" is physics..
But this is interesting!
Dynamics of the Soul's Domain), was published in 1740 and 1741. The first volume addresses the heart and blood; the second, the brain, nervous system, and the soul. Here again, Swedenborg was looking for a connection between the spiritual and physical worlds. Drawing on the works of contemporary scientists and philosophers (note, which included Newton and Halley) he describes a subtle spiritual fluid that permeates and sustains all living creatures, existing in a complicated interaction with the blood and the cerebrospinal fluid. The origin of life is a sustaining energy that pervades all of creation, and the source of that energy is God. Thus nature, in Swedenborg's view, derives life in all its forms from that creative energy and would be dead without divine influence.
But I don't like this, but if we know our bible, other's thoughts cannot lead us into error - though I shouldn't say can't lol!
"simultaneously started writing an exploration of the inner meaning of the Bible based on the new understanding he gained from his visions."
I figure the Bible interprets the Bible, and His guiding voice with it.
And "Secrets of Heaven is a verse-by-verse discussion of the inner meaning of the Bible, beginning with Genesis and then moving through Exodus. Swedenborg writes that the Bible should not be taken literally—in fact, parts of it make no sense if taken at face value—but everything written there has an inner spiritual meaning he calls a "correspondence." -- Why does it always have to be either/ or?
(Continued)
"intended to go through the entire Bible in this type of verse-by-verse exegesis, he never did so. Instead, he returned to London in 1758 with five new titles to publish: Heaven and Hell, a description of the afterlife and the lives of its inhabitants; White Horse, which talks about the inner meaning of the Bible; Other Planets, which describes the beings that live on other planets, some within and some outside our solar system; Last Judgment; and New Jerusalem. These last two refer to a unique aspect of Swedenborg's theology. He writes that the Last Judgment is not a future event that will mark the end of our world, but a spiritual event where evil spirits who had managed to infiltrate heaven were cast down to hell, allowing human beings on earth and in heaven to receive spiritual truths more clearly. Further, he claims to have witnessed this event in 1757, a year that marked the beginning of a new spiritual age for humankind. In New Jerusalem, he lays out the general principles for the new church that was to follow the Last Judgment."
:Chinscratch: I think this is where the literal / face value understanding of the Bible comes in handy! That overall picture of it, etc. The straight forward what it is saying. It should keep one from getting too fanciful.. or way out there.. Though I suppose most of us humans have been 'way out there at one time or another! :laughing7:
:doh: Quote Google - The Principia, by Newton, states his laws of motion, forming the foundation of classical mechanics; Newton's law of universal gravitation; and a derivation of Kepler's laws of planetary motion (which Kepler first obtained empirically). The Principia is considered one of the most important works in the history of science.
I should've known that.. read that before, not the book :laughing7: the Google blurb or elsewhere.
:Peace2:
p.d. - Swedenborg sounds like an interesting person, but not my cup of tea, I'm mostly all about the literal straight forward it says what it says kind of gal. Very interesting though!
There's this book I've be meaning to read for about 20 years now (! haha) called "Shapers of the Modern Mind" and is about a list of men.. Luther, Calvin, Newton, Kant (not exactly sure who he is), Darwin, Freud.. and others.. I don't think Swedenborg is listed.. but he surely had an influence on some.. a reaction to the very poor (ugh) translations of five words into hell.. and misunderstanding God's wrath as results and consequences put into language that can reach all levels of mind and heart, meaning, including the most base and barbaric, even brutal.
Sorry to babble on so. I'm glad to know who the guy was, Swedenborg, that is. :gsmile:
Quote from: Ross on February 13, 2019, 02:22:09 AM
Also teaches that we work our way up and down to a layer of heaven that suits us.
Wouldn't that fit with reap what we sow?
Quote from: marie glen on February 13, 2019, 03:21:37 AM
I was thinking his physics might be very interesting.. I finally looked him up... Haven't found out yet if "the Principia" is physics..
But this is interesting!
Dynamics of the Soul's Domain), was published in 1740 and 1741. The first volume addresses the heart and blood; the second, the brain, nervous system, and the soul. Here again, Swedenborg was looking for a connection between the spiritual and physical worlds. Drawing on the works of contemporary scientists and philosophers (note, which included Newton and Halley) he describes a subtle spiritual fluid that permeates and sustains all living creatures, existing in a complicated interaction with the blood and the cerebrospinal fluid. The origin of life is a sustaining energy that pervades all of creation, and the source of that energy is God. Thus nature, in Swedenborg's view, derives life in all its forms from that creative energy and would be dead without divine influence.
But I don't like this, but if we know our bible, other's thoughts cannot lead us into error - though I shouldn't say can't lol!
"simultaneously started writing an exploration of the inner meaning of the Bible based on the new understanding he gained from his visions."
I figure the Bible interprets the Bible, and His guiding voice with it.
And "Secrets of Heaven is a verse-by-verse discussion of the inner meaning of the Bible, beginning with Genesis and then moving through Exodus. Swedenborg writes that the Bible should not be taken literally—in fact, parts of it make no sense if taken at face value—but everything written there has an inner spiritual meaning he calls a "correspondence." -- Why does it always have to be either/ or?
(Continued)
"intended to go through the entire Bible in this type of verse-by-verse exegesis, he never did so. Instead, he returned to London in 1758 with five new titles to publish: Heaven and Hell, a description of the afterlife and the lives of its inhabitants; White Horse, which talks about the inner meaning of the Bible; Other Planets, which describes the beings that live on other planets, some within and some outside our solar system; Last Judgment; and New Jerusalem. These last two refer to a unique aspect of Swedenborg's theology. He writes that the Last Judgment is not a future event that will mark the end of our world, but a spiritual event where evil spirits who had managed to infiltrate heaven were cast down to hell, allowing human beings on earth and in heaven to receive spiritual truths more clearly. Further, he claims to have witnessed this event in 1757, a year that marked the beginning of a new spiritual age for humankind. In New Jerusalem, he lays out the general principles for the new church that was to follow the Last Judgment."
:Chinscratch: I think this is where the literal / face value understanding of the Bible comes in handy! That overall picture of it, etc. The straight forward what it is saying. It should keep one from getting too fanciful.. or way out there.. Though I suppose most of us humans have been 'way out there at one time or another! :laughing7:
:doh: Quote Google - The Principia, by Newton, states his laws of motion, forming the foundation of classical mechanics; Newton's law of universal gravitation; and a derivation of Kepler's laws of planetary motion (which Kepler first obtained empirically). The Principia is considered one of the most important works in the history of science.
I should've known that.. read that before, not the book :laughing7: the Google blurb or elsewhere.
:Peace2:
p.d. - Swedenborg sounds like an interesting person, but not my cup of tea, I'm mostly all about the literal straight forward it says what it says kind of gal. Very interesting though!
There's this book I've be meaning to read for about 20 years now (! haha) called "Shapers of the Modern Mind" and is about a list of men.. Luther, Calvin, Newton, Kant (not exactly sure who he is), Darwin, Freud.. and others.. I don't think Swedenborg is listed.. but he surely had an influence on some.. a reaction to the very poor (ugh) translations of five words into hell.. and misunderstanding God's wrath as results and consequences put into language that can reach all levels of mind and heart, meaning, including the most base and barbaric, even brutal.
Sorry to babble on so. I'm glad to know who the guy was, Swedenborg, that is. :gsmile:
Interesting points ty for sharing
I watched your video Marc just now ,
I thoroughly enjoyed it and most certainly could relate to your message !
I would have to agree that all things do work together for the good of those whom love the Lord and are called according to His purpose
This would include ''all things '' the good and evil tree or law that puts to death all the offensive things that break the law of Love and learning the truth of the matter from it .
I find irony in it , because death is the last enemy to overcome lol.
When I was so literal and babe like in thinking when we die as mortals it was the end , I do not think such ways any longer ..
For along time , it was all I knew , not being able to see outside my own understanding or perception of it .
To finally realize a perception of truth comes in many levels of understanding it, so able to be more patient with others who can only think one certain way ..
Death comes though that law of judging good and evil [judge not unless you want to be judged ] and we do die a 1000 deaths in the sense of not clinging to certain ideas . sometimes it is a good death , to remove the pride of life we as His little children can be so contrary and unruly at times stemming from impatience and lack of self control.
Stubborn in not being able to move past an important lesson to be learned though the experience of chastening because it is a painful test .
I loved how you gave the Father glory in His ability to teach us though ''all things '' good and evil .
It sure is patience , and our concept of patience , being said , Peter shared a 1000 years is like a day unto the Lord and a day is 1000 years and is not slack concerning His promises ,
I believe we have to wait on the Lord for we find ourselves in a worse position when we try on our own to fix things by our lack of understanding what is broken in the first place ! . lol :laughing7:
Personally I remember the first time a light of understanding come , when reading when Paul said , He did not even judge himself any longer but let God judge everything . I knew than he found the rest and security in trusting God fully for everyone and everything and his own opinion did not make anything better or worse for it . the TRUTH stands and cannot be moved or shaken , like we are always changing our minds in many things and learning to help and not harm or hinder the Truth in Love .
I found that it is all just stages of spiritual growth , after reading he told us to examine ourselves , that would be judging ourselves to see if we are in the same faith that JESUS faith is in the FATHER possessed that bore perfect fruit / results .
Results of spiritual gain by the HOLY SPIRIT working and teaching us all how to be His obedient children /offspring .
Wisdom is justified of her children , fruit of Her doings and complete /perfectly trained sons of God .
Sorry I haven't looked into Swedenborg much , but I also did a search , I find many times , reading things difficult , I heard it said , You can eat the fish but spit out the bones .
You can find ones faith /substance in some things and yet other things said , do not resonate in you at the time , like a fish bone that could cause you to choke and loose your breath . and you are done eating for the time being .
Like picky eaters , eating the WORD OF LIFE is beneficial to your overall good spiritual health . in my opinion and I enjoy the Bible mostly .but that is just one among a 1000 and it is not neither here nor there .
I rest in hope and am waiting on the Lord and finally tired of my own foolishness .
I am enjoying reading others thoughts of God more now than ever . and enjoy the quickening and life that is found in their sharing it with us all .
The quickening or rouse, waken,of the Holy Spirit gives life to those whom are dying to self importance as a good death and better resurrection. I do believe that is true .
GOD is no respecter of person and as His children we are taught not to be that way either . Love/God will prevail .
:2c:Ithinkit's really about growing n love and faith..more than'levels' sow fear and reap doubt and become unstable in our ways..
weak in faith are like spindly plants blown about by various winds of doctrine. Jesus,with His disciples,shared things with them
that other's could not recieve because of unbelief.And He had still more things to share...that they were not ready to recieve,yet
our root being grounded deeply in love and faith...makes as strong and able to remain steady when the varying windsof doctrine
blowour way.
putting our confidence in our flesh..is like putting faith in the outer shell of the seed that is under the ground and dissolving away
unto nothing......the new growth in the spirit grows up reaching toward the light and heavens.
varying circumstances can hinder growth...floodwaters[from the dragon]can wash us away[accusation/fear ]uprooting our being
grounded/rooted in love and faith. Drought of the true waters of life..can stunt/hinder ..cold hardened hearts[soil]lack of sunshine
[may the Lord cause His face to shine upon you]Babylon spirits[birds] snatch away seeds of faith and can carry them off.
tares can rob us of growth,also. The green spirit plant does not need be overly concerned with the corrupted outer shell of the seed
[flesh]that is dissolving away.[Ihad a problem with that!lol!]it was sown in weakness and corruption . rain must soften thatouter
shell and warmth of the sun[water of life and God's affection]
The Promise of the seed is the LIFE........The plants[spirit]growth supercedes the death of the corrupted,dissolving outer shell[ourflesh]
I saw this one time....a young green plant was carried of a bird and dropped into a field of ripened wheat..that was bowed over
with heads of grain and bleached of the sun ready for harvesting..and said'WHY ARE YOU NOT GREEN LIKE ME?!" The matured
wheats heads were full of thoughts of the coming of the Lord to gather them into the barns of heaven..and were bowing...and
the young green plant did not understand.It did not appear as life unto him,but death! :girlheart:
all these conditions..caneffect our spiritual growth.
Amen sisters! ...It's the sloughing off of the carnal/self-ish character and attitude, and putting on the new man fashioned after/like Jesus! How blessed all mankind is! For that is where we are all headed.. into that likeness of Jesus.. :cloud9: ...That which is all love.. Wow, the glory! What a God of power! :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :cloud9:
Quote from: rosered on February 13, 2019, 12:46:47 PM
I watched your video Marc just now ,
I thoroughly enjoyed it and most certainly could relate to your message !
I would have to agree that all things do work together for the good of those whom love the Lord and are called according to His purpose
This would include "all things " the good and evil tree or law that puts to death all the offensive things that break the law of Love and learning the truth of the matter from it .
I find irony in it , because death is the last enemy to overcome lol.
When I was so literal and babe like in thinking when we die as mortals it was the end , I do not think such ways any longer ..
For along time , it was all I knew , not being able to see outside my own understanding or perception of it .
To finally realize a perception of truth comes in many levels of understanding it, so able to be more patient with others who can only think one certain way ..
Death comes though that law of judging good and evil [judge not unless you want to be judged ] and we do die a 1000 deaths in the sense of not clinging to certain ideas . sometimes it is a good death , to remove the pride of life we as His little children can be so contrary and unruly at times stemming from impatience and lack of self control.
Stubborn in not being able to move past an important lesson to be learned though the experience of chastening because it is a painful test .
I loved how you gave the Father glory in His ability to teach us though "all things " good and evil .
It sure is patience , and our concept of patience , being said , Peter shared a 1000 years is like a day unto the Lord and a day is 1000 years and is not slack concerning His promises ,
I believe we have to wait on the Lord for we find ourselves in a worse position when we try on our own to fix things by our lack of understanding what is broken in the first place ! . lol :laughing7:
Personally I remember the first time a light of understanding come , when reading when Paul said , He did not even judge himself any longer but let God judge everything . I knew than he found the rest and security in trusting God fully for everyone and everything and his own opinion did not make anything better or worse for it . the TRUTH stands and cannot be moved or shaken , like we are always changing our minds in many things and learning to help and not harm or hinder the Truth in Love .
I found that it is all just stages of spiritual growth , after reading he told us to examine ourselves , that would be judging ourselves to see if we are in the same faith that JESUS faith is in the FATHER possessed that bore perfect fruit / results .
Results of spiritual gain by the HOLY SPIRIT working and teaching us all how to be His obedient children /offspring .
Wisdom is justified of her children , fruit of Her doings and complete /perfectly trained sons of God .
Sorry I haven't looked into Swedenborg much , but I also did a search , I find many times , reading things difficult , I heard it said , You can eat the fish but spit out the bones .
You can find ones faith /substance in some things and yet other things said , do not resonate in you at the time , like a fish bone that could cause you to choke and loose your breath . and you are done eating for the time being .
Like picky eaters , eating the WORD OF LIFE is beneficial to your overall good spiritual health . in my opinion and I enjoy the Bible mostly .but that is just one among a 1000 and it is not neither here nor there .
I rest in hope and am waiting on the Lord and finally tired of my own foolishness .
I am enjoying reading others thoughts of God more now than ever . and enjoy the quickening and life that is found in their sharing it with us all .
The quickening or rouse, waken,of the Holy Spirit gives life to those whom are dying to self importance as a good death and better resurrection. I do believe that is true .
GOD is no respecter of person and as His children we are taught not to be that way either . Love/God will prevail .
That's very kind of you, thank you.
Yes I think that we all like prodigal sons or daughters get a belly full of sin then realize...it doesn't satisfy. It does for a time but then gets boring. I actually got bored of sin...I think I'll make a post on this... Lol
I agree with all you say Rose.
The thing that puts me of Swedenborg at this time is that he doesn't seem to believe that God becomes all in all. I could be wrong but from what ive read so far he seems to believe that hell exists for ever to 'satisfy' the people there. But my argument would be that love wouldnt leave anyone in that state.
I agree LOVE/GOD would not leave anyone in that state of torment forever , many say they have done it to themselves , but Jesus proved on the cross to forgive everyone even yourselves , because they really do not know what they are doing .
God no doubt is still working , praying for the bridling of the tongue , with firm yet kind speech .We can learn to speak or be silent by seeing where they are coming from , ground or up .
Paul called it persuading by providing a sound reason for (someone) to do what is right for everyone involved .
Even though things are done in love for the good of all it seems harsh at times and turns many away .
I cannot force anyone to hear what I am saying, any more than I can hear them blaspheme the Father or the Son in ignorance .
Many cannot handle the truth yet , and I am still trying to handle it without offence myself . :friendstu:
"Swedenborg was an eye among the blind, an ear among the deaf . . . one of the noblest champions true Christianity has ever known."
--Helen Keller