Someone help me, please...

[Molly]

I've had terrible things happen to me like everyone else.  I can look back and say that was horrible to live through.  I can look at the present and say this is very difficult or maybe even life threatening.  But, never never did it ever occur to me to blame God. 

That's not to say I haven't often called out to him with the cry of Christ, Where are you?  I have.

My personal feeling about it is that there is a war going on in the heavenlies, and we can often become [temporary] collateral damage.  I don't take it personally except to note that we are born out of due time and thus living in this evil age  Paul tells us it the result of the rulers [kosmokrator] of the darkness of this world, the result of spiritual wickedness in high [heavenly] places, wherefore he compels us to put on the full armor of God for protection against these and so we can stand in the day of evil.  Should I blame God because of this rebellion?  Whether I should or not, I don't.

But, if someone does blame him, he has given the ultimate sacrifice himself--for our benefit, healing, and restoration.

Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

[Michelle]

I want to say something very important to me. In the last few minutes, I've just realized something. It's all in a message that James sent to me and my reply to his message:

"Hi Michelle. In my life away from Tentmaker I work in the Behavioral Health field. It really sounds like you've experienced a lot of trauma in your life. Not that you should be "locked in a psych ward" or something as you fear your mom might do, but do you think it might be worth getting in to talk to a counselor (preferably one that's a believer)? Even though I'm in St. Louis, Missouri, I kind of know what to look for, and I may be able to help you get in somewhere for an appointment. They might really be able to help.  I'm a pretty firm believer that sometimes God uses others, including professionals, to help us. Would you be willing to consider that?  I believe we all need help from time to time, and especially if we've had so much to deal with as you have had. Take care, James."


"I have a disability that prevents me from orienting myself in my own hometown. I often get lost. I can't take the bus or the subway all by myself and on my own. I rarely see my family and I have no friend outside the Internet. I also have a tight budget. There is no counselor in my immediate area. But I have the Internet. If you know a website with counselors that are believers, please, send me a link.

Thank you very much for taking some of your time to write to me and thanks for caring. Even on the TM website and among Christian Universalists, some people don't have that patience. Still, I see that most people here at TM have a lot and I mean a lot of patience. That is proof to me that they are men and women of God. Jesus showed me infinite amount of patience. Sometimes I hate myself and I beat myself over the head with so many things. The main one is: "How can you be so ungrateful? You don't thank Him enough for the good things and the blessings and when you are put through the bad things, you take it out on Him."

But a guy said:

"Well, I think God is big enough to handle all the shouting in the world. So I'm not too bothered about people yelling at him. It does perturb me, though, when people get offended on God's behalf, because that way lies the Crusades, the Inquisition and any number of nasty bits in the history of Christendom.

Then again, I'm sure JL would regard me as blasphemous, too, because on more than one occasion I've told God to light a fire under it and fix whatever problem I'm facing. I've even done a bit of Teresa of Avila in there -- on more than one occasion I have let God know in no uncertain terms that it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out why people think he doesn't exist. I am not particularly nice, awestruck or reverential in my conversations with the Almighty. And it works for me, because there are times when I know his answer is "well, smart ass, knock yourself out, let's see you do a better job than me".

We need to be honest with God. By pretending everything is smiles and sunshine we are not only lying to God, but also we are insulting him. Do you really think he's so petty that he can't take some ranting and raving? That's a human limitation, not divine. It's YOUR problem if it bothers you, not God's.

I also have to say that in light of the background of one of the posts on this thread, the advice to "realize the problem lies with you" is not only the most cold-hearted, erroneous, steaming pile of corn-infested pigsh*t I've ever heard, but it is INCREDIBLY DAMAGING AS WELL. I'm just stunned."

http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=11;t=000243 (See post number 2).

So it all comes down to honesty, huh? Telling God how I really feel because He can handle it? Because He can read my mind and it's not like He doesn't already know how I feel? Because if I didn't do it, I would be lying to Him and insulting Him? I am often awestruck, dumbstruck and at a loss of words at the infinite amount of patience that Jesus show me. I don't deserve it. Gary and the people at TM are right. God really IS Love. I mean, I have experienced His pure, perfect love once or twice, but when you are hit by a mega storm and you go through a spiritual crisis, all you can see is the waves and the s*it thrown at you. Especially when you're hit pretty hard. I'll keep that lesson in mind next time. Wow, incredible. God is using you mightily to talk to me and show me how much He cares. Praise Him for that. Thank you for writing to me. I feel much better now.

The Fundies can say that Christian Universalism is a heresy and a lie from Satan himself as much as they want, God has been (and still is) proving me many times over, again, again and again that I am on the right path, the path that He wants me on and that the truth will triumph.

Still, If you have a link to a website, please send it to me, it might come in handy.

I have to contact Gary now. He has asked to talk to me and I haven't contacted him yet. Which is a good thing if you ask me. I can only thank God I didn't attack the poor man. Gary is such a kind man. I would've ended up hating myself if I had taken it out on him.

Sincerely,

Michelle.   

[Michelle]

"How can we learn forgiveness if no one ever does anything for us to forgive them of? I think we all will have to forgive God for everything bad that happens in our lives because God could intervene any time he choses to, sometimes he doesn't because we learn something from every single thing that happens to us, be it good or bad."

So true, my friend, so true. And that reminds me of something Gary said in one of his articles. He said, how am I supposed to love my enemies unless I have enemies to love? All of this is food for thought...

"After knowing that God is in control of the universe and everything that happens in our lives, how does that make you feel toward God? Are you mad at God? Doesn't it say to forgive those who tresspass against us? Couldn't that apply to God also?"

Never had a truer word. And since He forgives all of our sins and suffered horribly for us, not forgiving Him is the vilest and lowest someone can do. Ugh, I am so ashamed of myself.

Maybe the unforgivable sin is rejecting His forgiveness. Which doesn't seem to be so unforgivable since He forgave me for that too. Then why does the scriptures call "unforgivable" which is apparently forgivable/forgiven? Some say that the unforgivable sin is attributing God's work to Satan because the people in the Bible accused Jesus of casting demons out by Belzebul, prince of the demons. If that was the unforgivable, then you can bet your bottom dollar that a lot and I mean a lot (not to say all) of people would be guilty of just that, because I think everyone at some point in their lives, gave credit to Satan when it was God in control of the universe and everything that happened to them. Even I am guilty of that. Was, since He forgave me and cleansed me. What I don't get is why the Bible says that those who commit the unforgivable sin "will not be forgiven, not in this life nor in the next". God keeps proving that this verse is wrong. Gary said not to throw out scriptures and blame them on the lying pen of the scribes. Then how do you explain that one? If you have read my previous posts in that thread, you know that no english translation of the Bible is perfect and without error, why I feel more comfortable with the 1611 KJV (though I study many Bibles and I believe that God can use any scripture to teach us something), so maybe that verse is rendered differently in other Bibles. I dunno. I haven't checked yet...

[Miriam]

I am new to a lot of this and certainly believe that God is big enough to take our anger at him with understanding and love.

I do struggle with the idea that he is personally behind, and has planned, all the suffering that there is - though I believe he is with us in it and that suffering is somehow redemptive.

[Molly]

"I have a disability that prevents me from orienting myself in my own hometown. I often get lost. I can't take the bus or the subway all by myself and on my own. I rarely see my family and I have no friend outside the Internet.

I am wondering if there is some kind of external solution to this.  I have a friend with a similar disability [she has early alzheimer's] and we got her a phone with a gps that talks to you and tells you where you are and what route to take.  There should be a way to get these devices through a donation program for those in need.

I once took the subway in Japan because I wanted to leave the city and see the country.  This was going to be a two hour trip and I didn't speak the language at all.  The hotel wrote on a piece of paper the Japanese words for the place I was going and, on the other side, the words for the Hotel that I would be returning to.  I made the entire trip showing this paper to people.  They took me under their wing and passed me off to other people when they left the train or when I had to change trains.  It was some kind of miracle lol.  I never spoke a word to any of them because I couldn't speak their language.  But, I was passed from kind hands to kind hands until I reached my destination-- in both directions.

Not that I am recommending doing that here lol, Japan is a different society.  But, there are ways to overcome these problems.  We just need to find them.

[Michelle]

Another verse that just doesn't make any sense and can only be wrong. The scriptures say that "He cannot deny Himself". But Jesus is God in the flesh and Jesus was forsaken by God when He died on the cross with the sins of the world upon Him, so we can say that He denied Himself. And isn't it what He has done His entire life on earth? Denied Himself for the sake of His children? How can God possibly forsake and deny Himself? Some say that God completely separated Himself from Jesus at that moment. But that's impossible isn't it? Jesus is God! They are one and the same! That verse just doesn't make any sense and can only be wrong. How do you explain that one? And I think that's where the myth of eternal separation from God comes from. The way I see it, that's what happened. Humans being sinful could only be separated from God who is 100% perfect, pure and holy. Not just because imperfection, impurity and wickedness are opposites of that, but also because in that state, direct contact with Him (not in the flesh but in His pure Spirit form) would've killed us (the scriptures says, "no one can see God face-to-face and live.") I'm not 100% sure, but I think that verse precedes Jesus's death on the cross (the reconciliation with God). Impure and imperfect men couldn't be in direct contact with God at that time and live. That's why He couldn't send the Holy Spirit to live in people (that's as much direct contact with Him you can have in this life) BEFORE the works of the cross, the reconciliation with God! But God being Love, loved His children so much that He couldn't and wouldn't have that separation last, neither in this life nor in the next. That's why He became flesh and dwelt among us. So that He could take the punishment for us, take our sins upon Him, experience some kind of separation (from Himself? That will probably remain a mystery just like the Trinity Himself) and reconcile us back to Himself so that He can eventually have all men saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Then He sent the Holy Spirit to live in us because the works of the cross enabled direct (as much of it as possible in this life and He has His reasons for that as well) contact between us and God. And since He experienced and took that kind of separation upon Himself, all will eventually be saved and there is no eternal separation from God because He just wouldn't have that. So the Fundies are dead wrong. Even if the consequence for sin was eternal separation from God, God just wouldn't have that and He came up with a plan to make sure that it would never happen and the works of the cross, His sacrifice and the reconciliation was that plan. Wow. So much of it makes perfect sense now. There are still a lot of things that remain unexplained; like separation from Himself (on the cross), why we can't have the full direct contact with Him right now (the whole thing), why He doesn't come back on the earth right now so that He can teach us the exact same way He taught those Bible back in the days. And He has a reason for everything, so what we don't understand now because of our finite mind and carnal mind will someday be perfectly clear to us. In the spiritual real. But Gary posted a message on this thread and he said... that men who knew Him after the flesh didn't understand stuff and that only after people have known Him after the Spirit (like Paul), did they really start understanding the scriptures (the scriptures are spiritual and the carnal mind cannot understand them, he said! People had not received the Holy Spirit back then so they couldn't be born again!) As long as God was on earth in the flesh, the Holy Spirit couldn't come. Because He had a plan and He had His own reasons for that. Mainly because the works of the cross had to precede the second birth, direct contact with Him (as much of it as we can have in this life according to His perfect plan, which is still in action as He is completing His work in us)! I'm starting to understand a lot of the things Gary said!

Wow, just wow!!!! My Lord and my God!!!! Praise God for that spiritual crisis for He really had a reason for it and worked it all out for good!!!!

:bowing: :bowing: :bowing:   

Thank you so much for sending me that article:

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d031002.htm

God is using you mightily. They'll never get me to believe that sh*t ever again, they won't :mnah: :

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Sermons/Dr%20Jack%20Hyles/to_hell_and_back.htm

Sure there is still a residue of fear and anxiety in me. It's normal after so many years of endoctrination and brainwashing. That's the aftermatch. But God has worked a lot of healing in me and I know that He will complete that work just like all the others. And I think we should pray for ourselves and for each others and ask God to completely free us from all the residues of fear and anxiety left in us due to past endotrination and to bring more of His healing into our lives. Let's ask Him to deprogram us from the years of crap loaded into us by the church and Fundies (endoctrination, brainwashing, traditions of men and doctrines of demons, lies, false beliefs, etc.)

If you have read my testimony in the "Welcome" topic, you know that back when I was a Fundy (about a month ago) I was about to commit suicide when God when God revealed the truth of UR to me. After spending countless nights sobbing and begging Him to send me to eternal torture in billions of people's place (including my unsaved family members, which is pretty much my whole family) because the love and compassion that had overtaken me due to His work were stronger than my fear (they weren't my own, no one human and imperfect has that kind of love and compassion that surpasses all fears), I saw and read that article, which drove me this close to suicide. If God hadn't interfered, I'd be a goner. But it wasn't my time to die. I will post it right now. The article that drove me this close to suicide and very nearly finished me off. Don't let the devil or those people fill your mind with images and sounds! Humble yourself before God and tell what the humble archangel Michael said to Satan: "May the Lord rebuke you."

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/billions_of_people_going_to_hell.htm

That article that drove me this close to suicide and very nearly finished me off, God worked it out for my good and for good. All the Fundies will eventually be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Just like everyone else. The 1611 King James Bible whose translators pretty much started the whole E.T (false) doctrine in the english translations and caused (and still causes) a lot of mental, emotionally, physical and spiritual damage, but just like all translations, it is a tool of God, all part of His perfect plan and work... God worked it out for my good and work it out for the good of all, you can be sure of that. It's no coincidence that God brought that Fundie friend into my life and had him send me that specific Bible translation. I was using the 1611 King James when I got saved. God worked it out for my good and work it out for the good of all. No english translation is perfect and without error. And somehow, I think I now know why! I think God revealed something to me that in time, He will reveal to the Fundies and eventually everyone else. God uses imperfect tools! God uses temporal imperfection to work out and bring eternal perfection! Imperfection serves a purpose! My Lord and my God!!!! Oh, my Lord and my God!!!! I am most blessed on this very day!!!! You work it all out for the ultimate good of all mankind!!!! Praise you Lord!!!! All glory, honour and praise to you for ever and ever, my beloved King and Master!!!! I rejoice and rest in You and in Your love and I love You with all my heart and all my mind and all my strength, oh my precious and beloved Jesus!!!! :giveheart:

If I was any happier, the dogs in my neighborhood would  hear the ultrasounds of my happiness, I could just shout it on the rooftops!!!! I LOVE MY LORD, JESUS CHRIST WITH ALL MY HEART AND ALL MY MIND AND ALL MY STRENGTH!!!! I LOVE HIM, I LOVE HIM, I LOVE HIM SO MUCH!!!!

:myahoo: :bowing: :bowing: :bowing:   

(http://lorimoon.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/jesus_hugging_woman.jpg)
(Artist: ??? Unknown)

[jabcat]

I'm not complaining, because God is good.  God's been dealing with my sin in this area by leading me over and over to just humble myself before Him.  When my flesh wants to find fault with Him and accuse Him, He keeps bringing me to bow before Him.  I'm reminded of Job.  Thankfully, I've not had to go through close to what he experienced, but it's for our learning.  He said "though God slay me, yet I will trust Him".  God bless.

[Michelle]

I'm not complaining, because God is good.  God's been dealing with my sin in this area by leading me over and over to just humble myself before Him.  When my flesh wants to find fault with Him and accuse Him, He keeps bringing me to bow before Him.  I'm reminded of Job.  Thankfully, I've not had to go through close to what he experienced, but it's for our learning.  He said "though God slay me, yet I will trust Him".  God bless.

Thanks for the advice. But getting angry is not a sin, it's a human reaction and it happens to everyone. And Honesty is important. He taught me that. God is big enough to take our anger at him with understanding and love, so getting it out of our system is a good thing, and if that happens, that only means we're human. As humans, we have human limitations. People are not perfect and beating ourselves over the head for being imperfect is unhealthy, even though I'm struggling with that a lot. It's still killing me because I wish I was a perfect daughter. If I didn't love Him that much, I wouldn't care. But no one will ever be perfect in this life, so what else can I do but live with and eventually accept my imperfections? I think my obssession with perfection comes from my childhood. Always trying to please mommy and daddy, but whatever I did, it was never enough. My younger sister was the favorite. She didn't have a disability and behavioral problems, so she wasn't a burden. Later on, my parents divorced and some of my family members told me that it was my fault. I tried to keep my family from falling apart, but I failed. I was switched from school to school because I had a hard time functioning due to my disability. I was a freak and didn't have any friend. Since my parents were divorced, I was switched from one place to the other. I tried anything and everything to please my parents, from good marks in school to keeping my room clean, but whatever I did, it was never enough. I never felt loved. My father was a drug-addict and an alcoholic. My mother was a control freak and because she was beaten up as a kid, she did the same to me. I love my mother, but I never felt loved by my parents. I always have that big fear of disappointing God and hurting Him. Because that's all I ever do. I always disappoint and sadden people. And sometimes, I just feel like I'm not doing enough for Him. Sometimes, I neglect my prayer life or Bible study, or I don't minister enough or I don't spend enough time talking to Him in my mind and I hate myself for that. And I'm so ashamed of myself that I cry in frustration. And never in my entire life have I ever loved anyone more than I love Jesus. Even if sometimes I get angry at Him, it doesn't mean that I don't love Him. Quite the opposite. If I was perfect, I would never screw up, sin or neglect any of those things. Sometimes I just wish I wasn't so obssess with perfection. I just wish I could stop thinking that if I'm not perfect and sinless I don't deserve the pure, perfect love of a perfect, spotless God. And I wish I could stop thinking that if I am not perfect and if I screw up, sin or neglect any of the above, that means I don't love God enough and I have to do better. Why He loves someone as imperfect and undeserving as myself is beyond my understanding. I just don't understand. He's so perfect and pure and holy and I'm a worm...

:crywipe::crywipe::crywipe: The truth is I am ignorant. You hear that? I'm ignorant. I don't even know where I'm going. I have tried reading books and articles and even question people about it, but they all make it complicated. I don't really know how to build a relationship with Him because I never really had a relationship with anyone and I totally suck at it! And people with an Asperger Disorder, the kind of disability I have, have a hard time socializing with people, not just because they are rejected but because they have a hard time communicating the way normal people do, so how in hell am I supposed to build a normal relationship with the Lord? I don't even know where I'm going. I've been talking with other Christians over the Internet, but I never really had other Christians around me, so I have never really seen people praying or studying their Bibles or having any kind of communication with God, so I don't even know the order of importance and priorities and how things have to be done, in which specific order and the frequency. I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to worship. Some people use music, writings and words, but I have no idea what is normal and appropriate. I don't want to anywhere near a church ever again, because of all the crap that is been said in there and how they have treated me. Besides, I'm Christian and there are only idolatrous Catholic churches in my area. And even if there were Christian churches in my area, the last thing I need to hear is speeches on dancing flames and screams of agony. But I don't know how to remedy to my ignorance on how to build a better relationship with the Lord. I feel so pathetic. And I am so sick and so tired of crying all the time. I'm 28 and all I ever do is cry like a baby, this so humiliating. I don't understand why He suffers me like that. Why did He create me with a disability that makes me a freak and an handicapee is also beyond my understanding. Why creating me with something that people hate and reject and something that hinders my relationship with Him? If I wasn't slow at learning and understanding stuff, I would be on the same level as normal people are and I would know how to build a better relationship with Him. But ever since I got saved, I feel that I got stuck somewhere and I don't even know what I'm doing wrong and what I'm not doing. I just read articles on people who talk about their relationship with Him and it just seems that I can't have what they have. I've had one or two intense moments, but they never lasted more than two days. I thought it would change now that I am a Christian Universalist, but I just feel like my relationship with Him is hardly going anywhere so maybe I'm just not good enough at this...

[jabcat]

I'm not complaining, because God is good.  God's been dealing with my sin in this area by leading me over and over to just humble myself before Him.  When my flesh wants to find fault with Him and accuse Him, He keeps bringing me to bow before Him.  I'm reminded of Job.  Thankfully, I've not had to go through close to what he experienced, but it's for our learning.  He said "though God slay me, yet I will trust Him".  God bless.

Thanks for the advice. But getting angry is not a sin, it's a human reaction and it happens to everyone. And Honesty is important. He taught me that. God is big enough to take our anger at him with understanding and love, so getting it out of our system is a good thing, and if that happens, that only means we're human. As humans, we have human limitations. People are not perfect and beating ourselves over the head for being imperfect is unhealthy, even though I'm struggling with that a lot.

I could probably be a little more clear.  I do believe it's OK to ask God for wisdom, understanding.  But it's been awhile now that I've really struggled with some of the things I see in the world, and sometimes I feel an anger and a blame rise up in me toward God, and I'm convicted that's wrong, sin in me.  I confess it/ask forgiveness, and often feel led, as I said above, to humble myself before Him.  It's been quite a problem for me, and I believe it boils down to stubborness, pride, plus other things on my part.  I AM NOT good at this, but I guess I personally think I need to ask God for help, to take that anger and blame away, and He's been working with me on it.   I'm reminded of this scripture;

"What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator. Does a clay pot argue with its maker? Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying, 'Stop, you're doing it wrong!' Does the pot exclaim, 'How clumsy can you be?'  Isaiah 45:9.

I'm guilty, but yes, He loves and forgives us.  He is our Deliverer, and His grace is sufficient to cover and meet all our frailties and failures.  He is growing us into His likeness.   "There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus".

If my confession helps you, great.  If not, no condemnation from me.  Everyone's walk is ultimately between them and God and He loves you immensely.  We need to lift each other up, pray for, and help each other.  God bless, James.

[Michelle]

I'm not complaining, because God is good.  God's been dealing with my sin in this area by leading me over and over to just humble myself before Him.  When my flesh wants to find fault with Him and accuse Him, He keeps bringing me to bow before Him.  I'm reminded of Job.  Thankfully, I've not had to go through close to what he experienced, but it's for our learning.  He said "though God slay me, yet I will trust Him".  God bless.

Thanks for the advice. But getting angry is not a sin, it's a human reaction and it happens to everyone. And Honesty is important. He taught me that. God is big enough to take our anger at him with understanding and love, so getting it out of our system is a good thing, and if that happens, that only means we're human. As humans, we have human limitations. People are not perfect and beating ourselves over the head for being imperfect is unhealthy, even though I'm struggling with that a lot.

I could probably be a little more clear.  I do believe it's OK to ask God for wisdom, understanding.  But it's been awhile now that I've really struggled with some of the things I see in the world, and sometimes I feel an anger and a blame rise up in me toward God, and I'm convicted that's wrong, sin in me.  I confess it/ask forgiveness, and often feel led, as I said above, to humble myself before Him.  It's been quite a problem for me, and I believe it boils down to stubborness, pride, plus other things on my part.  I AM NOT good at this, but I guess I personally think I need to ask God for help, to take that anger and blame away, and He's been working with me on it.   I'm reminded of this scripture;

"What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator. Does a clay pot argue with its maker? Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying, 'Stop, you're doing it wrong!' Does the pot exclaim, 'How clumsy can you be?'  Isaiah 45:9.

I'm guilty, but yes, He loves and forgives us.  He is our Deliverer, and His grace is sufficient to cover and meet all our frailties and failures.  He is growing us into His likeness.   "There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus".

If my confession helps you, great.  If not, no condemnation from me.  Everyone's walk is ultimately between them and God and He loves you immensely.  We need to lift each other up, pray for, and help each other.  God bless, James.

I wish I could believe you, James. And maybe soon enough I will. But not right now. Not when I see stuff like this... I have some spiritual issues to deal with first...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyCvp2QJSiE

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/sergemonast1994transcript.shtml

"What are the New World Order plans? They plan the destruction of all people who believe in the Bible, who worship Jesus Christ, and the complete disappearance of Christianity to achieve this plan."

If God creates, do and control all evil, why is He planning the destruction of Christianity?

http://www.educate-yourself.org/cn/projectbluebeam25jul05.shtml

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rjHBceI7Uo

((((((((:upset:))))))))

[jabcat]

First of all, I sense the links are something I'd personally prefer to not see and fill my mind with - "whatsoever things are pure and of a good report, think on these things".

There's only One between us and the Father - Jesus.  And He's our advocate.  Ask Him.  He has the answers.

[Nathan]

Just a quick remark to the general issue here . . . I think when we blame God for the bad things happening . . .killing, murdering, raping . . . for me, to blame God is a misdirection.  It goes all the way back to the garden . . .the ONLY thing Adam was instructed NOT to do was eat of the tree of knowledge . . .the tree wasn't just a tree, it was a realm . . .everything in this realm is governed by natural supremacy.  The realm was created as a balance to the realm of life.  But it wasn't God's desire for Adam to become controlled by it.  If anyone is to blame, it's Adam . . .not God. 

I think many people view God as this over-worked parent trying to care after a totally spoiled child.  It's the parent's responsibility to keep the child from hurting itself, from destroying it's surroundings . .on and on . . .so when we see just the opposite, we ASSUME God isn't keeping his promise.  But God wasn't the one that reversed the order of blessing, Adam was the moment he received from his Eve the fruit of knowledge.  He became what he ate.  And what he ate took control over him.

So now that we're in this realm, God allows things to transpire for the purpose of bringing revelational truth to the rest of his creation.  We want to focus on the fraction of godless people who were bound to an old covenant (Old Testament) but in doing so, that distracts us from seeing Love manifest to the rest of the world his nature and truth THROUGH those few who, according to Adam's choices, were rejected due to 'their' choices as well. 

But when the New Covenant (New Testament) came into this realm, the Old Covenant was done away with . . .those people that died, ever wonder where they might be now?  Considering that ALL have been redeemed??

[pneuma]

Is that supposed to make it all right? He is behind EVERYTHING evil that happens to everyone

Michelle God does not do any evil towards man, Satan and man are the evil bringers upon others. God is not responsible for what they do.

This is not a popular belief here, but it is the way I see things.

[marie glen]

Michelle God does not do any evil towards man, Satan and man are the evil bringers upon others. God is not responsible for what they do.

This is not a popular belief here, but it is the way I see things.

(I wholeheartedly agree w/ that! it's only logical:)

- - my dear, why read the Olde Testament? The New Testament is what we are given to read which grounds us, most of all, in His Goodness. If the word seems dry / there's a block, maybe try reading an Amplified Version New Testament. If that doesn't knock your socks off, nothing will..
- "our daily bread" - the bread and the wine/spirit/presence of God, daily. If we don't have these two our faith will drown.. our healing be delayed, and likely extend our feelings of suffering..

all the best, and much prayers and affection..

p.s. - we can go from   :dontknow:  :mshock:  :sigh:  to  :icon_king:  :cloud9:

[thinktank]

Also remember Michelle God is a big God, not just a Father but also a warrior. He will not sit back and let his enemies destroy his people. Instead of feeling sorry for the people that God brought justice on, rejoice that God has eliminated them out of society.
You see an innocent child, God sees a vengfull man destined to make war and get revenge on the people of Israel. You see an innocent tender woman. God sees a wicked woman, who speaks lies and makes the nations blaspheme the name of God.

Today God does not do these kind of things, because salvation and mercy is available to all. In the old testament a vicious tyrant would stay a vicious tyrant, a harlot would keep being an harlot, but in the new testament, a vicious murderer such as Saul can change into the apostle Paul, a despised harlot can change into one of Gods disciples, all have potential under the new covenant to be better people.

[Lefein]

I've been pondering a thought lately, that has come into my mind recently.

"God does not slay the man who is, but he slays the man who isn't."

Which is to say, that God does not kill a human, he kills that which is inhuman so that the human may live.  Or another way to put it, would be that he kills that which will kill us, even if that involves destruction of the body, or the soul.  To save the true-self of a person, sometimes the thing that is called the "self" of a person must die to free the true-self.

[Nancy]

Hi there,

Correct me if i'm wrong Michelle but haven't we PM'd each other.  I wrote regarding my OCD!

I'm sorry to see that you are unhappy about your relationship with God.

For what it's worth after you had so many replies, I have been reading a lot of Eckhart Tolle, The power of Now, etc. In it and in his audio lectures, he mentions that everything happens for a reason and humans with our finite minds could NEVER comprehend the universe as God has created it and why certain things happen that 'appear' bad. 
We all have times when we wonder and look at the sometimes absurd things happening, but i trust that God knows exactly what he is doing.
Michelle don't try to understand with the mind, it will just drive you crazy, but try to be still with God and have faith that He will give you peace of mind about this.
You are a survivor remember that. 

Godbless
Nancy

[jabcat]

I've been pondering a thought lately, that has come into my mind recently.

"God does not slay the man who is, but he slays the man who isn't."

Which is to say, that God does not kill a human, he kills that which is inhuman so that the human may live.  Or another way to put it, would be that he kills that which will kill us, even if that involves destruction of the body, or the soul.  To save the true-self of a person, sometimes the thing that is called the "self" of a person must die to free the true-self.

I like it, Lefein.  :thumbsup:  Goes right along with the restoration, earthly things being temporal, and God having a MUCH bigger plan.  Good word  :wink:.

[Lefein]

I like it, Lefein.  :thumbsup:  Goes right along with the restoration, earthly things being temporal, and God having a MUCH bigger plan.  Good word  :wink:.

:laughing7: I'm glad you enjoyed it, it really speaks to me that God just loves us too not to give us The Best, even the best of ourselves.

[Michelle]

Just a quick remark to the general issue here . . . I think when we blame God for the bad things happening . . .killing, murdering, raping . . . for me, to blame God is a misdirection.  It goes all the way back to the garden . . .the ONLY thing Adam was instructed NOT to do was eat of the tree of knowledge . . .the tree wasn't just a tree, it was a realm . . .everything in this realm is governed by natural supremacy.  The realm was created as a balance to the realm of life.  But it wasn't God's desire for Adam to become controlled by it.  If anyone is to blame, it's Adam . . .not God. 

I think many people view God as this over-worked parent trying to care after a totally spoiled child.  It's the parent's responsibility to keep the child from hurting itself, from destroying it's surroundings . .on and on . . .so when we see just the opposite, we ASSUME God isn't keeping his promise.  But God wasn't the one that reversed the order of blessing, Adam was the moment he received from his Eve the fruit of knowledge.  He became what he ate.  And what he ate took control over him.

So now that we're in this realm, God allows things to transpire for the purpose of bringing revelational truth to the rest of his creation.  We want to focus on the fraction of godless people who were bound to an old covenant (Old Testament) but in doing so, that distracts us from seeing Love manifest to the rest of the world his nature and truth THROUGH those few who, according to Adam's choices, were rejected due to 'their' choices as well. 

But when the New Covenant (New Testament) came into this realm, the Old Covenant was done away with . . .those people that died, ever wonder where they might be now?  Considering that ALL have been redeemed??

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d031002.htm

"THE UNPARDONABLE SIN

That which is usually termed "the unpardonable sin"—blasphemy "against the Holy Spirit"—is the attributing of the work of God's spirit (as this was manifest in the works of God wrought by the Lord Jesus—John 5:36; 9:4; 14:10; etc) to demonic power. To say that the Adversary acted quite independently of God—and of God's intention—in the introducing of sin and estrangement into the universe, is, really, to sin against the Holy Spirit.

God brought the Adversary into being, for all is out of god Rom.11:36), and God had determined beforehand that sin and estrangement would enter the universe through the acts of the Adversary, but this fact must not be considered in isolation. God had also purposed His mighty work of salvation by way of the cross of His beloved Son and, in order to reveal the glory of His saving power in Christ Jesus, God required the dark background of sin and estrangement. God, Who Himself is love, could never have suffered His love to remain for ever unrevealed and unrequited. Had Satan, the Adversary, in introducing (through his activities) sin into the universe, acted in absolute independence of God, then he should be praised for bringing about the condition that gave God the opportunity to manifest His saving grace. God will not give His glory to another (Isaiah 42:8).

Until we are able to recognize the mighty power of God, "Who is operating all (and Satan is included in the "all") in accord with the counsel of His will" (Eph.1:11), we cannot avoid attributing to the Adversary what God achieves and will achieve. But this we must refrain from doing, being concerned always to ascribe all praise to God.

It should be known that Satan is not an intruder in God's universe, but rather holds, as the chief of the jurisdiction of the air, high office among God's celestial hosts. In the book of Job, he is referred to as "Satan" and in Hebrew this means "adversary." It is just as necessary that God should have an adversary in His government as it is that He should have any other officer. And adversary opposes, and Satan opposed Job, and thus God had an opportunity to show what His grace and compassion could accomplish for Job (see James 5:11). Without the Adversary, we would not have had the beautiful and uplifting story found in the book of Job. Indeed, had it not been for the Adversary, there would have been no "wisdom of this world" (1 Cor.1:20), against the dark backdrop of which is revealed the glory of Christ, Who is the power and wisdom of God, the universal Saviour (1 Cor.1:18-25).

If those who seek to expound the Scriptures would first of all realize and then proclaim that the Adversary, Satan, fills the role assigned to him (and required of him) by God, and that in that role he is subject to God's authority and control, and can go no further than the limits God has prescribed for him, then there would be less unease within the ranks of Christendom. We close with the words of Paul in Romans11:36:–"

[Michelle]

Hi there,

Correct me if i'm wrong Michelle but haven't we PM'd each other.  I wrote regarding my OCD!

I'm sorry to see that you are unhappy about your relationship with God.

For what it's worth after you had so many replies, I have been reading a lot of Eckhart Tolle, The power of Now, etc. In it and in his audio lectures, he mentions that everything happens for a reason and humans with our finite minds could NEVER comprehend the universe as God has created it and why certain things happen that 'appear' bad. 
We all have times when we wonder and look at the sometimes absurd things happening, but i trust that God knows exactly what he is doing.
Michelle don't try to understand with the mind, it will just drive you crazy, but try to be still with God and have faith that He will give you peace of mind about this.
You are a survivor remember that. 

Godbless
Nancy

No, sorry. We never PM'd each other. You're mistaking me for someone else. I'm new, so that happens to me too sometimes. But if you wanna talk or something, feel free to PM me. I guess you're right. There are some issues I have to work on with Him...

[micah7:9]

Quit watching the stuff. Get into the Word, read and study what the Word teaches. If you dont know by now and maybe you dont, when people of the world spread and report stuff via TV and now Youtube it has only one purpose and that is to attempt to undermine the Truth. Either you believe that God is the Master of All this is about or you do not. I believe that Jesus Christ died and was crucified for the sins of the Whole World and that the world will do all and anything it can to bring sand under my foundation, it will not. Earthquakes happen and many are lost at times, the same with floods and other earthly calamities and catastrophys, but to question the Creator's love for mankind as tho He is bad or does not care is simply foolishness. God is Spirit and those who worship Him will worship in Spirit and Truth. He has purpose and reason, just because you or me have not come to know and understand the Wisdom of His works, well its only a pause to His knowledge.
Hab 2:3  For yet the vision is for a season, And it breatheth for the end, and doth not lie, If it tarry, wait for it, For surely it cometh, it is not late.

[marie glen]

Is that supposed to make it all right? He is behind EVERYTHING evil that happens to everyone

Michelle God does not do any evil towards man, Satan and man are the evil bringers upon others. God is not responsible for what they do.

This is not a popular belief here, but it is the way I see things.

The only way to prevent suffering is if God never created rational beings, no thinking ability allowed ever, all things programmed.

Yet in this way we see God as in control of all things, yet not. Yet ultimately yes! Even the fall of high angel Lucifer. Not a surprise to God. First rebel thought was bound to happen. And God chose to create the universe and man and woman only aFter Lucifer had gone rebel and seditious. Why? So we all would take this unavoidable journey and lesson together once for all time and eternity, otherwise one would wander away now, another later.. and later.. and later another, and so on, taking virtually for ever.

When God in His great and glorious wisdom endowed thinking ability to angel and man a whole new world/tree 'came to be'.. Being responsible for it, He built the rescue in from the beginning / "from the foundation of the world" - "This is the decree. you are my Son.." the "only begotten of God" the only straight out from God.. "the firstborn of all creation".. The very first thing God did, He did for us, and with an eye to the 'end'.. and has done all things in order to bring about THE BEST possibility and reality possible. {A family and an un-breakable paradise, for the full understanding and knowing of good from evil / life from death will be deeply etched on every heart, mind and psyche. He is creating His Family and an eternally un-breakable perfect Eden-like paradise (likely spreading to other planets?) "the lion will eat straw like the ox, the bear will graze with the cow".}  :bgdance: :bgdance:  :icon_flower:

The New Testament is our loaf from which we get our daily bread.. Isn't there a verse which says listen to no bad report? Instead, whatsoever things are good, whatsoever things are uplifting.. This is the new covenant, the bread and the wine/the Spirit.. daily.. Who is God? "God is love", all love, the love we feel for someone, or anyone, and everyone. That is Him.

[micah7:9]

"The New Testament is our loaf from which we get our daily bread" Marie glen

I believe that it is the Old Testament, the scriptures is our "loaf" and it is through our rebirth and the regeneration of our spirit  that we can digest and bring forth what His Word teaches of old. Paul and all the Apostles read(ate) from the old testament, the Scriptures and learned and taught from that wisdom along with the enlightenment received from the knowing the Savoir in human form.

[Michelle]

Quit watching the stuff. Get into the Word, read and study what the Word teaches. If you dont know by now and maybe you dont, when people of the world spread and report stuff via TV and now Youtube it has only one purpose and that is to attempt to undermine the Truth. Either you believe that God is the Master of All this is about or you do not. I believe that Jesus Christ died and was crucified for the sins of the Whole World and that the world will do all and anything it can to bring sand under my foundation, it will not. Earthquakes happen and many are lost at times, the same with floods and other earthly calamities and catastrophys, but to question the Creator's love for mankind as tho He is bad or does not care is simply foolishness. God is Spirit and those who worship Him will worship in Spirit and Truth. He has purpose and reason, just because you or me have not come to know and understand the Wisdom of His works, well its only a pause to His knowledge.
Hab 2:3  For yet the vision is for a season, And it breatheth for the end, and doth not lie, If it tarry, wait for it, For surely it cometh, it is not late.

For your information, the NWO is very much real. Do some research on the Internet and get your facts right. Some people have been studying this for months, others for years. It's just as very real as HAARP, Blue Beam, Monarch and Montauk. The Illuminati and Freemasons are behind it. They have taken over the NASA and they will project an holographic image of a fake Christ in the sky to deceive all nations. A one world governement, one world currency, one world religion. And the proofs are all around. Do a research on how many earthquakes there have been in the last few years. Just last year, for example. You'll be surprised. Think Haiti was a "natural" disaster? That was HAARP and their electromagnetic waves, the ELF towers. I could show you some videos of a holographic image of Jesus in the sky, or a video of holographic fake UFOs. That was Project Blue Beam. You should know by now that your own government is behind the destruction of the WTC. That was to turn americans and muslims against each others. You should watch the videos on Youtube entitled: "Al Qaida doesn't exist". It was an hoax. Bush, Clinton, Obama, Ron Paul, pretty much all USA leaders and many leaders of other countries are Freemasons or Illuminati. They are all in secret societies and they worship Satan. The evil Babylonic system. Ever heard of the Bohemian Grove? Skull & Bones? They worship Moloch, the evil "god" (fallen angel). They talk about Moloch in the Bible. In the Bible, people burned their children to Moloch. And what do the secret society, Skull & Bones, do? They burn children to that evil demon in the Bohemian Grove. They kidnap them and they burn them. And they practice witchcraft, occultism, idolatry. All the horrible things that's been happening lately, you think it was a coincidence? All the earthquakes and the dead birds, fishes and turtles in the USA and the Gulf oil spill. And what happened in Haiti, the earthquake, the flood, the cholera. Do research on chemtrails and ELF towers, on mind-control and behavior modification. You think I should be locked up? You think I'm a conspiracy theorist nutcase? Well you are dead wrong! You are dead wrong, my friend! Do some research on the Internet. Some serious research and you will realize that it all fits. The world leaders worship Satan and they plan to take over the world with mind-control, eletromagnetic energy and microchips and they have death camps like Hitler and they plan to kill anyone who doesn't forsake Jesus Christ. The new-agers are in league with them. The new-agers are for a false one world religion. And there's Raj Patel and Benjamin Creme, they teach Satan worship and they do channeling and communicate with ascended masters who are evil fallen angels. But they pretend to be friendly aliens from outer space. And the Vatican promote that kind of crap. Friendly aliens from outer space. But they are evil spirits, demons. You can bet your bottom dollar that the black pope is behind it all. Or maybe the actual pope. Catholicism is of the devil, believe me. Not only is the Catholic church full of pagan rituals and doctrines, they worship Mary, saints, angels and they pray to dead saints instead of Jesus who is the only mediator and they still believe in salvation by work. And many people who started talking about the NWO, like Michael Jackson, Serge Monast, Tu Pack and plenty of others, were silenced for good and members of their families murdered. The Freemasons and Illuminati even took over the music industry. They put evil spells on Rock & Roll and Rap albums, so that when people listen to them, they are possessed or under demonic oppression. And they do all this with witchcraft. I'm not kidding. Do some serious research on the NWO and you'll find out that it's just as real as you and I. There are thousands of articles and videos out there. I've been studying this for months back when I was a Fundy, as I was begging people to get saved from eternal torture and everlasting wrath. It's all true! Of course, I don't study it anymore. With the ET doctrine, that's just another thing I don't want to think about. Whether the end of the world is coming or not, I just don't want to think about it. The last thing I want to think about is the earth shaking and everything exploding and burning as Jesus comes back and people running in all directions, panicking and screaming and dying in a pool of their own blood. The real Apocalypse. But like I said, if you don't believe me about the NWO, do some serious research. And you say that God has a purpose and reason for everything, including all the evil He creates and does? Well how come He's trying to destroy Christianity? Why the Bible-reading Christians who worship Him? I just don't get it...