sexism

[Andromeda_Organa]

I've had people tell me that God invented sexism, and that we shouldn't fight it because of the Fall. This really disturbs me, as I believe sexism is responsible for a lot of evil in the world. What is your  viewpoint?

[martincisneros]

The Scriptures are clear that man is the head and king of the home, but the woman is often the neck that turns the head or the ear that winds up hearing the voice of God in the home.  Some Churches lie by saying that man is both king and prophet of the home, but the pattern of Scripture was usually a separation between kings and prophets so that if the household is being lived according to Scriptural standards, then the wife will often be the prophetess of the household if she spends adequate time in fasting and prayer to hear from God.

In Scripture, the man is supposed to be the representation of Christ in the home while the woman is supposed to be the representation of the Church in the home.  But the Scriptures are clear also that we often bump into false Christs and apostate Churches, so that's the heart of the matter on getting everyone assuming their Biblical roles and working with the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit on being who they're supposed to be. 

This being the case, then the man's the foot washer while the woman's supposed to be the recipient of rich servant leadership in the home, although as I said God's Biblical role for her will often be guidance even if he's leadership.  If both are equal then someone is completely unnecessary because God made man to supply what the woman lacks, while God made the woman to supply what the man lacks.  Anyone thinking of going into marriage thinking it'll be 50/50 is destined for a speedy divorce automatically, because marriage should always be entered into with an attitude of 99/1 on both sides.  Each side should approach it with an attitude of being responsible for 99% of it, otherwise the screams will start immediately about who isn't giving their fair share to the relationship.

People that believe that God invented sexism should stop taking God's name in vain.  He established an order that's not supposed to be abusive.  When it's wandered into the abusive then it's wandered into witchcraft rather than into the holy.  When it's wandered into manipulation and greed, then it's wandered into witchcraft and not into the holy.  When it's wandered into who is right and who is wrong, then it's wandered into witchcraft and not into the holy.  The two are supposed to be one inseparable hermaphrodite rather than two opinions, or again, it's wandered into witchcraft rather than into the holy.  God invented oneness, men invented chauvinism while women invented feminism, therefore men and women invented sexism rather than God.

[Nathan]

Women are supposed to be silent in church also.  We had a guy come into ours . . it's probably been 5 years ago now, he and his wife came into our Wednesday night Bible study . . .they were pretty cordial and quiet. . .then when the class was winding down, one of our members acknowledged them and asked if they would like to share anything about themselves . . .the man stood up . . quoted that verse where women are supposed to be silent and proceeded to tell us how disobedient we were and how every church he's been in has kicked him out . . .in the end  . . .we joined in with the other churches.

I didn't kick him out persay, but I did announce to those in the room not to take heed in anymore of his doctrine and at that, he got his wife up . .who never made eye contact with anyone the entire time she was with us, and they left.  I really was still in a bit of shock to see someone so bound claim they were free.  It was a very memorable experience.  My particular denominated was founded by a woman . . . not sure if this guy knew that or not . .it wouldn't have mattered, he was looking for a fight and then when he found one, he saw himself as being in tribulation for the gospel.

I still see all that kind of thinking as the result of those who emphasize the literal meaning of what was written to them then, for my church today.  Now, I see it as my woman (mind) must be silient in my temple (body) as my man hears the word from the Word and my man then takes that word to my woman where she can recieve it and my whole body benefits.  There is an order, but it's not man, woman and then child.  For one, in the spirit there is neither Greek, nor Hebrew, slave or free . . .here, you read it.

27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.  28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.  29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

In Christ, there is no differentiation between a man and a woman.  My wife is much better at handling the finances than I am . . .I have no issues in letting her.  She leans on me to be the disciplinary with our children  . . .we've learned what jells and what does not.  But there is no "I'm the man, your my subservient" attitude.  Spirit has authority over flesh . .. that's all that any of that is saying.

[Taffy]

Women are supposed to be silent in church also.  We had a guy come into ours . . it's probably been 5 years ago now, he and his wife came into our Wednesday night Bible study . . .they were pretty cordial and quiet. . .then when the class was winding down, one of our members acknowledged them and asked if they would like to share anything about themselves . . .the man stood up . . quoted that verse where women are supposed to be silent and proceeded to tell us how disobedient we were and how every church he's been in has kicked him out . . .in the end  . . .we joined in with the other churches.

I didn't kick him out persay, but I did announce to those in the room not to take heed in anymore of his doctrine and at that, he got his wife up . .who never made eye contact with anyone the entire time she was with us, and they left.  I really was still in a bit of shock to see someone so bound claim they were free.  It was a very memorable experience.  My particular denominated was founded by a woman . . . not sure if this guy knew that or not . .it wouldn't have mattered, he was looking for a fight and then when he found one, he saw himself as being in tribulation for the gospel.

I still see all that kind of thinking as the result of those who emphasize the literal meaning of what was written to them then, for my church today.  Now, I see it as my woman (mind) must be silient in my temple (body) as my man hears the word from the Word and my man then takes that word to my woman where she can recieve it and my whole body benefits.  There is an order, but it's not man, woman and then child.  For one, in the spirit there is neither Greek, nor Hebrew, slave or free . . .here, you read it.

27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.  28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.  29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

In Christ, there is no differentiation between a man and a woman.  My wife is much better at handling the finances than I am . . .I have no issues in letting her.  She leans on me to be the disciplinary with our children  . . .we've learned what jells and what does not.  But there is no "I'm the man, your my subservient" attitude.  Spirit has authority over flesh . .. that's all that any of that is saying.

In this case...Learned the literal Curse egh....,

Having read the first few verses..I was Coming Gunning for ya Pal....all guns a Blazing...

Of course ,women are to be Down trod....Beat em I say, Make em Submit...its a MANS right, :mblush:..so sad

[martincisneros]

In the Church situation where St. Paul shushed the women, it's because the men and women in that congregation were segregated rather than integrated.  Men sat on one side and women sat on the other, and the women were shouting out in the midst of someone teaching, interrupting the service, asking their husbands about what was just said.  St. Paul said to save those kinds of personal questions for when you get home.  Don't interrupt the service.  That's what was going on.  It's a historical, contextual, limited duration thing since Christian services aren't conducted that way any more. 

The New Testament from cover to cover doesn't promote debauchery, deviancy, other religions, poverty, self abasement, sexism, slavery, or speciesism.  All things in order.  All things, beings, doctrines, beliefs, degrees of Sovereignty and Will in their proper order and proper place in the Body that's the fullness of Him that filleth all in all.  God is not the author of confusion, according to 1Corinthians 14:32-33.  For liberty Christ has set us free.  To each one of us grace was given according to the measure of the gift of the Anointed One and His Anointing.  Therefore, we're not going to grieve the Holy Spirit any more.  We are just like the Master (Luke 6:40; 1John 2:6; 1John 4:17).

[Taffy]

In the Church situation where St. Paul shushed the women, it's because the men and women in that congregation were segregated rather than integrated.  Men sat on one side and women sat on the other, and the women were shouting out in the midst of someone teaching, interrupting the service, asking their husbands about what was just said.  St. Paul said to save those kinds of personal questions for when you get home.  Don't interrupt the service.  That's what was going on.  

Why?..

Mes always thought it was the WOMAN was Under law....

[Paul Hazelwood]

It's a historical, contextual, limited duration thing since Christian services aren't conducted that way any more. 

Not saying this in an argumentative way,  but there is a pentacostal church around here  that do separate the men from the women in the worship service.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are numerous ones around the country that could be found doing that as well.

I attended for a few months as I was intrigued by that style of doing things. Trouble is, in this one and from knowing a family personally that went there,  there is an undercurrent that women aren't as important as the men there.

Of course one church doesn't mean anything out of the many that there are, but it was sad to start seeing that aspect of things.  It is very well hidden and very difficult to critisize.

[Taffy]

It's a historical, contextual, limited duration thing since Christian services aren't conducted that way any more. 

Not saying this in an argumentative way,  but there is a pentacostal church around here  that do separate the men from the women in the worship service.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are numerous ones around the country that could be found doing that as well.

I attended for a few months as I was intrigued by that style of doing things. Trouble is, in this one and from knowing a family personally that went there,  there is an undercurrent that women aren't as important as the men there.

Of course one church doesn't mean anything out of the many that there are, but it was sad to start seeing that aspect of things.  It is very well hidden and very difficult to critisize.

Dont ya just hate Religion P.....so much for being Equal In the Lord and sexless....

[Molly]

In the Church situation where St. Paul shushed the women, it's because the men and women in that congregation were segregated rather than integrated.  Men sat on one side and women sat on the other, and the women were shouting out in the midst of someone teaching, interrupting the service, asking their husbands about what was just said.  St. Paul said to save those kinds of personal questions for when you get home.  Don't interrupt the service.  That's what was going on.  It's a historical, contextual, limited duration thing since Christian services aren't conducted that way any more. 

The New Testament from cover to cover doesn't promote debauchery, deviancy, other religions, poverty, self abasement, sexism, slavery, or speciesism.  All things in order.  All things, beings, doctrines, beliefs, degrees of Sovereignty and Will in their proper order and proper place in the Body that's the fullness of Him that filleth all in all.  God is not the author of confusion, according to 1Corinthians 14:32-33.  For liberty Christ has set us free.  To each one of us grace was given according to the measure of the gift of the Anointed One and His Anointing.  Therefore, we're not going to grieve the Holy Spirit any more.  We are just like the Master (Luke 6:40; 1John 2:6; 1John 4:17).

Probably a hold over from the Old Testament.  Weren't the men and women separated in the Temple?  Yes.

Probably took them a while to get used to a new era.

[Nathan]

Yeah, women weren't counted when numbering tribes either, only the men.  Women couldn't serve "in" the temple, even though the laver was overlaid with their mirrors.

But when you look at this as spirit/soul . .it makes perfect sense.  The spirit always takes precedence over flesh.  Spiritual over natural . . .dominion over this earth is not "on" this earth . .it's spiritual.  In the kingdom "within".

[Taffy]

In the Church situation where St. Paul shushed the women, it's because the men and women in that congregation were segregated rather than integrated.  Men sat on one side and women sat on the other, and the women were shouting out in the midst of someone teaching, interrupting the service, asking their husbands about what was just said.  St. Paul said to save those kinds of personal questions for when you get home.  Don't interrupt the service.  That's what was going on.  It's a historical, contextual, limited duration thing since Christian services aren't conducted that way any more. 

The New Testament from cover to cover doesn't promote debauchery, deviancy, other religions, poverty, self abasement, sexism, slavery, or speciesism.  All things in order.  All things, beings, doctrines, beliefs, degrees of Sovereignty and Will in their proper order and proper place in the Body that's the fullness of Him that filleth all in all.  God is not the author of confusion, according to 1Corinthians 14:32-33.  For liberty Christ has set us free.  To each one of us grace was given according to the measure of the gift of the Anointed One and His Anointing.  Therefore, we're not going to grieve the Holy Spirit any more.  We are just like the Master (Luke 6:40; 1John 2:6; 1John 4:17).

Probably a hold over from the Old Testament.  Weren't the men and women separated in the Temple?  Yes.

Probably took them a while to get used to a new era.

YUP

[Taffy]

Yeah, women weren't counted when numbering tribes either, only the men.  Women couldn't serve "in" the temple, even though the laver was overlaid with their mirrors.

But when you look at this as spirit/soul . .it makes perfect sense.  The spirit always takes precedence over flesh.  Spiritual over natural . . .dominion over this earth is not "on" this earth . .it's spiritual.  In the kingdom "within".

:icon_flower:

[martincisneros]

Yeah, women weren't counted when numbering tribes either, only the men.

The idea behind this was that they were being numbered for war, generally because of the weakness of their faith/conscience.  Later, though, David got in trouble for counting the men of fighting age.

Women couldn't serve "in" the temple, even though the laver was overlaid with their mirrors.

The woman is the glory of the man, is how St. Paul interpreted this.  Just as the not being able to blend the cloth with other types of cloth was a reference to not being unequally yoked together with unbelievers.

But when you look at this as spirit/soul . .it makes perfect sense.  The spirit always takes precedence over flesh.  Spiritual over natural . . .dominion over this earth is not "on" this earth . .it's spiritual.  In the kingdom "within".

Our dominion translates into dominion on this earth because those who've received the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life, and those that are faithful are put in charge of ten cities, etc., etc.  But it's not a dominion rooted in the natural with having acquired the right degree and having worked one's way up through the political process of incrementally taking higher and higher offices with the favor you try to gain/manipulate from the people.  I got a real rush over my name being in the Lamb's book of life in March of 2000 when I rebuked a tornado, commanding it to be removed and to be cast into the sea, not doubting those things that I said came to pass and it actually happened when that tornado was within about 3 feet of me in Downtown Fort Worth, Texas and then on the spot dematerialized.  That was dominion on the earth, His will being done on earth as it is in heaven, and my not being lead into temptation but being delivered from evil because "it is finished!" An even greater rush when I found out later that two tornadoes had collided exactly where I was at.  I've been deeply grateful ever since for God having given me a rod of iron over the nations, just as Christ Jesus received from His Father. :cloud9:

[Nathan]

 :iagree:

[Andromeda_Organa]

Martin, do you mind explaining what the difference is with man representing Christ vs woman representing the Church? Does that make the woman less than the man or is it just something different?