Saved by Grace?????

[sheila]

he who says he is without sin..is a liar..no bigger hypocrite then white-washed graves....ofthe religious leaders of His day......

  pharisee's sadducees..that teach doctrines of men and make invalid God's precepts,laws etc. 
....

   and this is the judgement..God has bound up all men  in sin[sinner in] in order to have grace on them all...

   because ye say ye have no sin..your sin's remain

     HE TOOK ON THE APPEARANCE OF SIN[wine-biber,glutton,blasphemer..friend of sinners.cursed of God] and it is no

wonder that  those who have His spirit should not be found in this same appearance...judged of men..precious with God


    we don't make urselves..no-one can be more than what God makes of him. certain'religius spirit' elders like to bind up heavy

loads impossible to bear..just as they did on our Lord Jesus Christ..to where a man had to be conscripted to help Him carry

  His cross to golgatha.

   religious leaders do not enter into the kingdom of heaven...and hinder those who are entering...harlots and taxcollectors

  enter the kingdom before such............Jesus doesn't change...God said 'thisis my son,listen to Him"  Jesus said 'few things

   are necessary"

     here is the limit of His Grace....whatever it takes to completely restore,heal and give immortal life to  all men in the

  image and likeness of Jesus Christ.


  in re to appearing as Jesus Christ...many will come in my name and say 'I am the Christ" when we see Him face to face..then

we will be just like Him........

   so,ye deire to be saved from much labour pains?huh? then be a worker at home[your own house] for this is how ye are kept

safe through it.  and make your presence rare at your neighbors doorway..lest he hate ye. and be nota busy-body in other

people's affairs[judge not lest ye be judged]now if ye would judge yourselves ye would not be judged.


   flesh and blood can not inherit..for it is a spiritual inheritance..otherwise Jesus would of been born in the natural way..as

   Ishmael..instead of by the promise[spirit] Isaac..and he born in the natural [flesh] persecutes him born of the promise[spirit

seed].....

   GOD HATES/DETESTS A CHEATING PAIR OF SCALES........men who serve great measures of grace to themselves

as God's long-suffering unto them] but skimps and cheats meager grace to his fellowman.are guilty of this..


   HYPOCRITES=religious leaders,pharisees sadducees=offspring of vipers..if ye were of God ye would Love me.....

   the love of God is not in ye.

   the FLESH IS WEAK BUT THE SPIRIT IS WILLING= God knows weakness of man's flesh...but HE CHOSE THE WEAK

  DESPIZED THINGS AND SAYS BY MY SPIRIT..and NO FLESH SHALL BOAST

   

   

[sheila]

ps..our 'perfection" you must be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect" comes not in our flesh..but in the spirit........

  for the 'just spirits of men made perfect"  For God does not require what we d not have..but accepts..what we do possess...


   token of the spirit is what we have now.......the earnest..of the fullness to come...the fullness of the spirit that we will inherit

  along with a celestial body that will not be at odds with the spirit  a body that will not have sins law in operation in it..so

  that when we will and desire to do 'good' the will of God..we will not find 'evil present'..this same flesh natural body we inherited

from Adam,along with it's weakness and sin entered into it.[through one man sin entered into all men]


   after beginning in the spirit[token] are we perfected in the flesh? No!   But that which is born from above will have

it's own celestial flesh..not the terrestial flesh of what was born of Adam in the natural

[Seth]

that when we will and desire to do 'good' the will of God..we will not find 'evil present'..this same flesh natural body we inherited

IMHO, this is only the case when we turn to the letter for salvation. This happens when we abandon grace for the teaching we need for godly living in this present age. When we turn to the spirit, indeed God does give us the power we need to do what we desire. Grace is the empowerment to do it. What we lack God will freely give. But under the letter we will always fail.

The Bible says that Christ redeemed us to purify unto himself a people zealous for good works. If he creates the zeal, but provides no power to follow through, then the Gospel will have failed us.

[donken]

Hello.  It is this present physical body that is going to be the body that is free from time and space.  And, like all creations it has to be test fired to see that it is "completed".   Jesus' body that was resurrected was the very same body he had in his human life in Israel.  God does not promise life to something and then just throw it away.  The human physical body is the INCREASE that is to be in God's Kingdom.  As Scripture says, of the INCREASE of his dominion there is to be no end.

Jesus made a point of showing that the very same body he had after HIS resurrection is the same one that he had before the resurrection, as in the nail prints in it and the spear wound in it's side.  This was shown for OUR SAKE now in this time, not "only" for Thomas.  It was for us, just as the raising of Lazarus was for us.  Lazarus was corrupting already and he was still able to live in the same body... BUT... .he died again.  We learn that that death is not the death that is required for us to be given the judgment.  The death required is the death of Spiritual immaturity that is a natural state of being short of the glory of God just as ANY HUMAN baby is always short of the glory of a human adult.  A parable for us to help our understanding.    Natural Adam is the baby or child and is not completed yet and therefore is dead all the while until completed\perfected\mature as our father is perfect. 

We are saved or matured by REMAINING the very same Grace in us that is God and is Jesus Christ.  We are saved\matured by remaining GRACE ourselves.  That is the completion.   The fruit of righteousness is Peace scripture says.  So, if we are to be God's righteousness, we have to have His peace undisturbed at any stime in us irregardless of what goes on outside.   And, it is by the Spirit being POURED OUT from on high that the righteousness comes.    Isaiah 32:15.  Acts 2.

Acts 1 tells us that we are given the ability {power} TO BECOME a\the Son of God.  It does not say we already are just because we are given the ability.
Why would anyone speak against anyone who believes that God in his temple can do and accomplish all things.  Let those who do not think they can do it not do it but if anyone thinks it can not be done then they are not "in faith" about that.  Let those who say they can do it fail then, if the will fail.  But they won't.
God does unto you\us as God would have done to Himself if the tables were turned.  The only answer for peace on earth and the eternal peace of God's Spiritual condition is that all be HIM.  This is accomplished by the resurrection of the divine nature, line upon line, in mankind in the spirit of life in man over time.  We are now at the "end of that part of the creation's existence".  After we come to Spiritual maturity in this world there is still a tremendous amount of things that will still be required to be done.   There is no peace except all people be the very same person and same wisdom and same nature no matter how many vessels there are that are ONE.

Ken.
God bless, Ken

[sheila]

Seth,I disagree with..God gives us the power to do it.  the power is the spirits..it does the will of God,not our flesh..it is

  God doing it in us..not us or our flesh.   why do you call me good? there is no-one good but the Father...I do the works of

  My Father..it is the Father doing the works in me. Paul's..nothing good dwells in my flesh..when 'I' desire to do good=

  not the will of God/Holy spirit..but will worship of man.


      ex; groom/bride..neither has authority over their own body....the bride has authority of the grooms...thus..anything ye

  ask for me to do,I will do for you.  the groom also has authrity over the brides body...thus...spirit led[do not I have authority

to lead about a sister as a wife]  thus Phillip running to meet the ethipian enuch.....the command to visit Paul on straight street......

  no-one knows where it comes from or where it is going...so,too,those born along of the spirit.  what's born of flesh is flesh

what's born of spirit is spirit.   there is no law against the spirit...ye can do nothing of yourselves

   that's what I'm getting at. 

[sheila]

John 6;63..it is the spirit that gives life..the flesh counts for nothing.

[Seth]

Seth,I disagree with..God gives us the power to do it.  the power is the spirits..it does the will of God,not our flesh..it is

  God doing it in us..not us or our flesh.   why do you call me good? there is no-one good but the Father...I do the works of

No actual disagreement there, I don't think.  :HeartThrob:

I believe God does give us power, for he says:

1 Corinthians 5
10But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

God gave Paul the power to do the works, yet when he did the works, it was not Paul, but God.

Galatians 5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

There is empowerment to have love, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness etc etc, through the crucifixion of the flesh, which can only occur through the Spirit and walking by the Spirit. Under the Law this is not possible. The Law cannot cure the carnal mind. In fact, it only makes it worseL

Romans 7
13 Therefore did that which is good (the Law) become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

This is why Paul always said not to try to make one's self righteous by the letter. It results in constant failure, because to be under the law is to fall from grace, which is what teaches us to "live godly in this present age" (Titus 2:11)

[dajomaco]

Holiness can NOT BE IMPUTED it has to be authentic.  No pretend with God.(disagree)

And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

[Seth]

Righteousness does not come by the Law, but it comes by walking in the Spirit, which is done by faith. When Paul said that wanted to be found in Christ not having his own righteousness, he did not mean that works do not matter.

In my opinion, it's not pretend righteousness:

Romans 2
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

I don't know how anyone can read that scripture and come away with the idea that righteousness is pretend. This is clearly a solemn warning. Rather, I believe the righteousness which comes by faith is that which Christ imparts through his character, by working though the saints to kill the carnal mind and change their works in this world.

He will give aionios Life (the life of the age) to those who persevere in doing good, and for those who obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and indignation, and it will be God rendering these judgments according to your works. It's no different than Christ saying in John 15, now that we have been grafted onto the tree, we best produce fruit, or we will be cut off.

[donken]

Psa_110:3  Thy people shall be WILLING in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Isa_1:19  If ye be WILLING and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

Please consider.  Jesus had to die in God's place, because no man had ever yet properly seen or understood God or known who or what God is like.  Jesus in dying, did not witness anger, un-forgiveness, physical vengeance, affliction and pain and death towrad those who killed him {man by doing sin killed him} and in that way he kept his flesh obedient to the parameters allowed from it by God and DESTROYED the enmity or kept the enmity toward God that is the lusts of the flesh bound.  Therefore he made of the two, the flesh and the Spirit of Life, ONE NEW ETERNAL MAN.  Everything in man and the emotions and lusts of man, the wrath of man that does not work the righteousness of GOD, is now revealed to be "the devil", and as Paul calls them, the lying or deceitful lusts.

It is the lusts of the flesh that is the enmity toward God and those lusts are the so called "law or pinciple of immaturity {sin} " in us and what we live by in the world when we are not a completed or perfected man yet. BY our own works.    But.. two can not walk together unless they be agreed.  Love is not a dictator UPON someone and does not hurt someone to make them "be loving", and waits patiently until it is WANTED.   In the world, if I "loved" a girl {it is really sex drive attraction} and she did not like me {no physical attraciton toward me} and I kept on trying to ingratiate myself to her, eventually she will hate the sight of me.  Do you see how people can come to hate some forms of Christians and to hate the "bible thumping" as they call it.  Leave them alone if they do not want what you try to give.  Pray for your enemies and leave it at that.  OBEY, willingly.  Keep the self right feeling in us "dormant" till it sleeps forever.

God bless.  Ken

[dajomaco]

But.. two can not walk together unless they be agreed.  Love is not a dictator UPON someone and does not hurt someone to make them "be loving", and waits patiently until it is WANTED.

Love struck Paul with blindness and made him helpless.
So that he would walk in agreement with the Lord.

[eaglesway]

IMO, it is possible to dance across the fine lines of the scriptures and not really be that far from one another :o) The point at which our will is involved with God's work in our lives in relationship to calling and election is a mystery, but at the root, all is grace, no flesh will glory before Him.

[Seth]

"IMO, it is possible to dance across the fine lines of the scriptures and not really be that far from one another"

I agree. I've found that happens alot. It's like when two people look into the same mirror, but one person is on the right and the other person is on the left. You both see the same image, but with a slightly different angle.

[donken]

The difference in angle for us in regard to really understanding the scripture according to God's meaning is the difference in viewpoint.  Is scripture understood and believed by the worldly experiences we have encountered and by believing all those physically experienced experiences are what God's spirit is like.  Ie. in the world we have some good experiences and some bad.   God is not the author of both, although we can only experience both because God is creating and we as the creature being formed are both... which is what the spirit of man is based upon, the world.  That is not the single of eye veiwpoint\understanding.

God is only good, period, and is never angry or any such thing and never ever does evil or harm to any person.  Do you, the reader, believe this or do you believe God is going to be good to believers and is going to physically hurt and cause evil upon and to non believers.  I wonder if there is anyone here who thinks they free willed themselves into being?

It is not possible to come to Christ, either preliminary, or maturely at the end, except each person who comes and begins to believe has been DRAWN BY GOD, period.  No one picks their parents, either spiritually or physically.

Joh_6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I also note that this "resurrection" only happens on the "last day".  It is not already finished.  When Jesus said it is finished he was talking about his dying and his witness of God to us in the world.  His living is never finished.

1Ti 1:19  Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20  Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

What is it that is a shipwrecked position.  The reef these two particular individuals beached upon and lost the ability to sail on with in the waters of God is that they believed the resurrection of the church members was already over or a fact.  This was wrong because Paul gave them over to the world, which is what their doctrine in this area was based upon.  It is a doctrine of the man of sin, natural Adam.

2Ti 2:16  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17  And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18  Who concerning the truth have ERRED, SAYING THE RESURRECTION IS PAST already; and overthrow the faith of some.

It is all or nothing.  God bless, Ken

[dajomaco]

In My Opinion
Jesus did it all.
Jesus died for the singular sin of the world. The sin of unbelief.
I work out my salvation daily, by walking in faith that Jesus has done it all.
Only when I enter into his rest, is my faith made complete.

This brings me great joy.
I thank Jesus , for I cannot imagine any other way,
that the God called Love could endure my presence.

[Seth]

Jesus died to cure unbelief....IMHO.

[donken]

Hello.  We are not "saved\matured" by Jesus' death.  We are matured\saved by HIS LIFE.  Romans tells us that and the apostles are always telling the people of their day to LIVE LIKE JESUS DID.  That is what He witnessed, the father, eternal life, in his walk in the world as an adult human being.

Also, if Jesus did it all by dying, why is it that we need to have the man of sin identified for each one of us before we can know the DAY OF THE LORD.  As 2 Thessalonians 2 tells us that that day will not come before the man of sin {all our error} is removed.   The man of sin is ADAM, natural Adam and the doctrines that are sincerely believed are simply the beliefs of immaturity, childhood.  As we know, Gal. 4 says that when we are child, even though an heir {to be} of all things, when we are not mature {a child spiritually} we are under the elements or spirit of the world.  That is the spirit of the old testament belief and standard.  Good AND evil, Life AND death, Blessing AND cursing.   That is the world we are to overcome if we are to really see Jesus Christ and his witness with the eyes of our understanding.  Why would we be told that we need such things if it was all done.   It is sure to be done, and I would not want anyone to think I was saying otherwise, but in any marriage, for the purpose of that marriage to be fulfilled, both parties have to be at the same place doing in agreement the same act at the same time.   {Barring artificial semination that is able to be done today physically}

Jesus said IF a person hears his words and does not do them they are building their house {body, temple of God} on the SAND.   Does that sound like it is all done already or do we have to participate and to participate well we have to also understand correctly what is needed to be done.

The natural Adamic doctrine that says it is all done already is a doctrine that promotes lying laziness.  I say these words plainly but not accusing toward anyone.  The lie that Jesus did it all has been established over time because the people and Christians all through history did not see how they could believe and sitll be dying physically, so they thought it must be another way.  We all, living of having died physically, must be judged IN THE BODY, because the completion of the work of God in creating man into the spiritual image of the Holy Spirit has to be done where creating and change take place.  IN time and space.  Do not be fooled into lethargy in righteousness.  And... it is an individual walk and choice, with God IN ONE teaching us as we walk.  That is how the SPIRIT leads us into all truth and ends up having us know that Jesus Christ has come to us as who we are at the end of that perfecting\completion.

To have eternal life one has to be holy as God is holy.  Without continual eternal peace within and eternal holiness no one shall see God.  And, why do we have a judgment and a judgment seat mentioned in scripture that has to begin with those who are at the house of God if it is all done.   

Funny thing about those who see the dead departed, apparently they are still wearing clothes and have glasses and so on and just seem to be hanging around waiting and doing nothing.  Apparently the clothes they wore in the world are eternal also, as well as the glasses and so on.   It is high time for us to wake Up. 
God bless, ken

[Seth]

Hello.  We are not "saved\matured" by Jesus' death.  We are matured\saved by HIS LIFE.  Romans tells us that and the apostles are always telling the people of their day to LIVE LIKE JESUS DID.  That is what He witnessed, the father, eternal life, in his walk in the world as an adult human being.

:iagree:

Romans 5:10
For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

Nobody was saved by death. We are saved FROM death (carnal mindedness) through LIFE. Reconciled means God is not our enemy. But God judges even his own sons. Therefore, being reconciled does not mean no judgment, the purpose of which is to save. Previously, through the Law, judgment was to condemn without mercy on the word of two or more witnesses. Now the prophecy is being fulfilled:

Psalm 96
11Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof. 12Let the field be joyful, and all that is therein: then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice 13Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

[jabcat]

Romans 5:1  Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

[donken]

Hi.  Reconciled to God BY His death means the same kind of thing that a human baby is accepted as a member of the family even though the baby is not like the adult members.  The baby is allowed to do many things that would be "unattractive" if they were still being done by an adult.  When Christ is DEAD in us, we do not know what we are doing.  That is what his death means.  His "death" means that who we came from and are "parented" by is not known or understood by us at all, we are full of darkness about who God is and what GOD is like as our father.

When we as children in the world finally grow up spiritually to become the actual living example of Jesus Christ as a human being in the world, a mature son of GOD who is always called Jesus Christ, then death is dead.  The works and ways and mind that is clouded by death causing ways is no more a way of Jesus Christ who we are all to be.  This growth into Christ Jesus is going to continue for the entire existence of this creation.  Isaiah 65 shows us that in the new heaven and new earth there will still be infants, children, and of courser, spiritual adults.   Living in houses, no one losing their house any more, and ... the serpents meat in the new world is still going to be DUST.   Mankind has been growing up as one child for eons of time.   This is an "evolving" of mankind.

Donken.

[eaglesway]

The difference in angle for us in regard to really understanding the scripture according to God's meaning is the difference in viewpoint.  Is scripture understood and believed by the worldly experiences we have encountered and by believing all those physically experienced experiences are what God's spirit is like.  Ie. in the world we have some good experiences and some bad.   God is not the author of both, although we can only experience both because God is creating and we as the creature being formed are both... which is what the spirit of man is based upon, the world.  That is not the single of eye veiwpoint\understanding.

God is only good, period, and is never angry or any such thing and never ever does evil or harm to any person.  Do you, the reader, believe this or do you believe God is going to be good to believers and is going to physically hurt and cause evil upon and to non believers.  I wonder if there is anyone here who thinks they free willed themselves into being?

It is not possible to come to Christ, either preliminary, or maturely at the end, except each person who comes and begins to believe has been DRAWN BY GOD, period.  No one picks their parents, either spiritually or physically.

Joh_6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I also note that this "resurrection" only happens on the "last day".  It is not already finished.  When Jesus said it is finished he was talking about his dying and his witness of God to us in the world.  His living is never finished.

1Ti 1:19  Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20  Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

What is it that is a shipwrecked position.  The reef these two particular individuals beached upon and lost the ability to sail on with in the waters of God is that they believed the resurrection of the church members was already over or a fact.  This was wrong because Paul gave them over to the world, which is what their doctrine in this area was based upon.  It is a doctrine of the man of sin, natural Adam.

2Ti 2:16  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17  And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18  Who concerning the truth have ERRED, SAYING THE RESURRECTION IS PAST already; and overthrow the faith of some.

It is all or nothing.  God bless, Ken

As I see it the scriptures are clear that God gets angry sometimes. We do too because we are made in the image of God, equipped with will, emotion, intellect and spirit. Anger can be many things coming from various sources. Our responses to and managment of our anger when it occurs are really the issue- because that is what demonstrates whether Jesus is enthroned over our emotional impulses and to put it simply, our feelings.

God's anger motivates certain responses from Him that can be unpleasant for us but in the end result in our deliverance from iniquity through an introduction to righteousness and accountability for acts that lead to death.

[Graph1159]

The way I tend to see it is, there's a difference between the absolute reality from which God sees us and the relative, experiential reality on our end.

Certainly there was nothing we could do to earn our salvation, so it has to be by grace, yet we also see in the Scriptures that we must believe the Gospel to be saved, and there are a number of passages which portray obedience as integral to our salvation (such as James Ch. 2 and 1st John throughout). However, the requirement of faith and obedience does not deny grace because it is God who enables us to believe the Gospel (Rom. 8:30, Rom. Ch. 9, Heb. 12:2) and it is He who works in us both to will and to do (Phil. 2:13) to accomplish the things he planned for us beforehand (Eph. 2:10).

However, from an experiential standpoint, it often feels as though we are obeying in order to be true Christians and to make our faith real, which I think is why some passages are written the way they are. Regarding the doctrine of Lordship Salvation (the teaching that we must make Jesus the Lord of our lives to be saved), my thought is that Jesus is always the Lord of everyone's life whether they know it or want it (Rom. 9 again). In the absolute sense, we cannot "give our lives" to God because our lives have been in His hands all along.

However, there comes a point in true believers' lives in which they feel as if they are surrendering their lives to Christ and accepting His Lordship over their lifestyle and decisions. When this happens, it's because God is bringing them into a new kind of relationship with Himself, so on their end, they feel as if they are under His Lordship for the first time.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I KNOW God has anger. I had it literally leap up in me one time. I was astonished. I knew it was not ME, I was not angry, nor was it another spirit, because another spirit would not have been angry at what this person said to his father, that essentially robbed him and therefore spiritually murdered his father of receiving Christ.

The intellectual son (who had been born again and knew better) said something along the lines of Muhammad, Confucius, Buddha, and others had wisdom too and therefore his unsaved father didn't need to look any further into Christ. I felt the anger of the Lord leap inside me and my reply was, "There is a major difference. Those men are all dead but Jesus Christ is alive!"

But His anger is also quick to forgive, when the fruit of repentance has been brought to the table, and the fruit of our own lips that He reproves us with, does a fine job of bringing repentance, sooner or later. Blessings....

[donken]

Believing that God actually CHANGES HIS MOOD is not an everlasting God.  I change not, God says.  Anger is one of the emotions that is enmity with God, against the truth of God, and is the spirit of our deception.  Please, take a moment.  If I put a cup of coffee on the table close to the edge, and it is teetering a little bit.  Then I KNOW that I should move that cup because if the table gets moved or shaken or bumped against that coffee cup with the contents in it is going to get spilled on the floor and or rug.  So, I do not move it.  And then it happens, a big truck goes by outside and shakes the whole house a bit, the table too with the house, and the coffee fall to the floor and spills.
Now, if get angry and rant and rave about it, I AM A FOOL.  I know that the ONLY WAY that which i KNEW IN ADVANCE would happen could be prevented was that I MOVE THE CUP before it happened.     Does God know before what we are going to do is done?   Yes.
Anger is one of the unfinished parts of man and is part of the enmity that Jesus Christ abolishes in us to make us one new man, flesh AND Spirit of God.

Now, about God's image.  God is SPIRIT scripture says.  Therefore the true image of God is to BE HIS SPIRIT, and the container does not matter what shape it is.

Col_3:8  But now ye also put off ALL these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.   {not sometimes or some of it, but ALL}

Be ye angry and sin not, do not let the sun "{light of Christ} go down on {because of} your wrath.
Eph_4:26  Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:


By their works or results you SHALL KNOW THEM.  The old testament is old for a reason.  The spirit of Moses and the prophets etc. is the spirit of the world, the world they lived in and that was in them, naturally.   Scripture in Isaiah 32 says that righteousness is going to reign in the fruitfu field that was once a wilderness and that the FRUIT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS PEACE.   So... let me ask you.  Does God ever lose His peace.   So.. if God is ALWAYS RIGHTEOUS, the the result and continuing everlasting condition of being righteous is PEACE.  MY PEACE I GIVE YOU JESUS SAID.  Where was anger ever witnessed by Jesus as being IN HIM or of HIS WAYS.     Anger is the serpent in man.    And anger has many conditions and anything that turns to anger when awakened is of Satan.

Satan as it is called IS IN THE HEART OF MAN... for out of the heart of man come the things that defile the man.  They are already there, they do not enter in some time after human birth.  Man is NOT A FINISHED creature\creation.  Jesus Christ had to be perfected Himself, perfected meaning completed.  He is the example of how we must be in order to be completed.

It takes the lionlike strength of the immovable love of God to be THE LAMB.  When man gets angry and wants to "fix things" the way they think they should be, the use anger and the methods of anger, their own self righteousness.  And, Christianity though history, because of the night time it was in, went about establishing and teaching their own ideas of righteousness and did not SUBMIT THEMSELVES to the righteousness of God.  Romans 11.

When my Spirit is in the earth, the Lord said, they will not learn war any more.  Did moses and the prophets and Christianity through history fight physical wars like men fight them.  Yes.   That "spirit" is not of God.  Yes, God allows us to do such things when we are disobedient and do not know any better, but today we are being taught what is right to do.   THIS IS THE DAY OF THE LORD and by the end of this year most Christians if not all, WILL KNOW IT.

Judgment begins as the HOUSE of God.  IN THIS BODY of flesh we now have.
We are the temple that Jesus turns the tables on and casts out the things that are not of his Father's house.  This is going to be done in full in this time, the tares in Christians being bound FIRST, and prepared for burning.   The tares and the wheat are IN all men, including Christians.
God bless, ken

[donken]

We can not have God and Satan doing the same things can we?    There is no angelic bodied evil beings at all.   The enmity against God is in man as the unfinished parts of the creation.   As scripture tells us, Christians when they are a spiritual child are under tutors and governors, not under God.  And those tutors and governors are the elements of the world, the spirit of the world.   The evil in man, including anger, is what is circumcised out as we are finally judged into eternal life by the Spirit of God from within us.   Jesus Christ is being resurrected WITHIN CHRISTIANS TODAY.  This is the day of the Lord.    This is the year of that maturity. 2014.

Isa 29:12  And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isa 29:13  Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isa 29:14  Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Isa 29:15  Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

Anger is something that lies at the door as sin when the following things in us do not get their way.  They lie there in our heart like a sleeping dog ready to immediately get up and assert themselves as soon as their ways are thwarted by someone.
Jealousy, Pride, greed, envy, defeat, selfishness, personal desires etc.   Anger is the spirit in man that kills those they once loved {lusted after} as their wives or husbands or other family members and friends.   Anger is a murderer and the active spirit of many self centered and greedy desires and  lusts of the flesh in us.
God bless, ken.