Romans 7: sin

[GodIsLove]

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature d a slave to the law of sin.


Confession:

I can't take it anymore! I am so sick of having an ideal in my mind and yet my behavior does not reflect my inner desire for love, patience and kindness.

This is in a specific area: I get very upset when I see anyone, but especially my kids, husband, or myself act in hurtful, selfish ways...and when I see the behavior I become inordinately upset because I don't like it, and I want us all to live harmoniously.

But my reaction is anything but harmonious!

My reaction is fueled by anxiety, worry, stress, even anger.
I can have patience up to a certain point and then I lose my cool and yell, and it is so maddening because I KNOW this is not helpful or loving. But at the same time I don't want to see this behavior in our family. I strive to teach my kids about love, selflessness, giving, etc and there seems to be anger, defiance, and selfishness that shows up. I mean, they are also kind and loving, they are only human and only children so their behavior is totally normal but it upsets me. I also hold my husband and I to almost perfection and that doesn't help anyone. But the opposite seems to be to tolerate negative behavior and I don't want to do that. To meet negativity with patience and love is my GOAL but it's basically unattainable right now...I can do it sometimes but not always...and I am so sick of not being able to do this simple thing.  I pray often for God's help with parenting and marriage, but it is my biggest struggle as far as testing and stretching my capacity to be Christlike.

Thoughts?

[sheila]

 :2c:Habakak 3;16..yet I will wait patiently for the day of calamity to come on the nation invading us[the invisible kingdom of

satan and his evil spirits/we wrestlenotflesh andblood]

days of Lot and Lot's torment of these wicked spirits ways. God will remove HIS LOT[allmen/animals] before He burns this earth andpart

of heavens[space][LOF] with tares consumed in it. They hate us because we are made in His image and likeness[love]

[guest6088]

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature d a slave to the law of sin.


Confession:

I can't take it anymore! I am so sick of having an ideal in my mind and yet my behavior does not reflect my inner desire for love, patience and kindness.

This is in a specific area: I get very upset when I see anyone, but especially my kids, husband, or myself act in hurtful, selfish ways...and when I see the behavior I become inordinately upset because I don't like it, and I want us all to live harmoniously.

But my reaction is anything but harmonious!

My reaction is fueled by anxiety, worry, stress, even anger.
I can have patience up to a certain point and then I lose my cool and yell, and it is so maddening because I KNOW this is not helpful or loving. But at the same time I don't want to see this behavior in our family. I strive to teach my kids about love, selflessness, giving, etc and there seems to be anger, defiance, and selfishness that shows up. I mean, they are also kind and loving, they are only human and only children so their behavior is totally normal but it upsets me. I also hold my husband and I to almost perfection and that doesn't help anyone. But the opposite seems to be to tolerate negative behavior and I don't want to do that. To meet negativity with patience and love is my GOAL but it's basically unattainable right now...I can do it sometimes but not always...and I am so sick of not being able to do this simple thing.  I pray often for God's help with parenting and marriage, but it is my biggest struggle as far as testing and stretching my capacity to be Christlike.

Thoughts?

I used to want people to be perfect, even myself.
Then I learned this wasn't possible and am LEARNING (big work in progress!) to love people for who they are.

My fave author is a guy called 'David Gemmell' and his 'heros' are always some sort of 'anti-hero'...They do 'good things' but usually half-assed and not really knowing what they're doing and usually initially for a selfish motive yet they are proven to be good people when the chips are down... They just don't know it or believe it (like you and I, I believe).  They don't even realize they're doing good half the time and certainly never want a 'pat on the back' for any 'good work'.  They are closer to God than they know...I believe that of you also.

Gemmells 'heros' are always flawed in some way but they are oh so loveable...

Jesus said: 'Do not worry'...about what you eat, wear...nothing!

I concentrate on the 'love' part as best I can and leave the rest up to God.  Faith I sometimes lack, hope I cling too thankfully as I'm smart enough to know I really don't know anything.
I used to give myself a hard time over things I did 'wrong' but what's the point? ... Who enjoys seeing me 'sorry' and upset? - God or Satan?  If I suffer then others suffer too...I have to be as 'whole' as possible to help others...No point beating myself up for a mistake I made or feeling sorry about it forevermore. 
No...I forgive myself ASAP and move on.

Paul dealt with things his way, but I'm not Paul and neither are you and you will learn to deal with things in a different way perhaps.
For me...I do my best ... I try to meet God half-way and if I fail I know He will be faithful and carry me the rest of the way.
God is Love for goodness sake there's no need to ever feel sad! - To believe otherwise would be a disservice (for me) towards God.

[sheila]

He gives us a messenger of satan to buffet us..at times..that we not be overly exalted.That way we know of His undeserved kindness..

by which we have mercy and are saved..and it is NOT of our own merit. seeing what He has done,we,too,can exercise lovingkindness

unto others whose behavior just does not merit it,either! God does not condone sin..He forgives us of it..and leads/shows us  a better way

of doing things. :girlheart:Moses,too..was so vexed by the people's bad behavior..that he broke all10 commandments at once!!!

[sheila]

the constant accusing of satan has become somewhat internalized.Abused children suffer that..and there are plenty of false-christs,false

shepherds that had their hand in doing it.Some feel guilty for being alive. :girlheart: Holy spirit told me..'you shouldnot feelguilty

for being alive!" all our parts are written down in His book while we were yet imperfect. :girlheart:

[rosered]

 
  Oh girl  ,


  I  sure can so relate    to your   struggles  against the sin nature   , spirits   that are desiring to rule over us in  our body of death . mortal and  temporary  vessels fitted for destruction  . Thanks be to God   it will pass! 

in our weaknesses God is our strength  , I always wondered   what was hidden in  there that was so ugly , and when it popped up  like a bad  seed  in the garden  of my soul .

  and all the  emotions would come flooding in and sweep  me away  by the force of it all . :sigh:

But we are instructed  and scriptures warn us of the saints or holy ones are to be overcome , in  our weakness   God is our strength  and grace is covering our bad  with  the good covering of Christ  nature

  I do   think it keeps us humble and keep asking the Holy Spirit for the help  needed  to overcome the world  as  the Christ in you , and hope of glory to God  be made perfect in weaknesses   as   the inner man is being renewed day by day ,,, 

that being the good part  that  Jesus told  Mary had that could NOT be taken away from her  , true treasures  within  , the gifts of the Holy Spirit when we keep asking   for more and more of Him , it is a battle girl!! 
 
I believe  when we pray for our enemies  , we are praying for them within and without   !   I so believe that is how the rest in Jesus will come   to us  all .
  Though obedience  and faith in Him   and taking every thought captive to Christ  mind Our Light and knowledge of GOD in His Wisdom, so we can dwell on the good things  from above and not the  earthly troubles    that  are being exposed by the Light that is coming   by the DAY ..  wisdom is justified of her children ... bearing good fruits to God ...

The Lesson of the Lamp
16No one lights a lamp and covers it with a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he sets it on a lampstand, so those who enter can see the light.

17For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and nothing concealed that will not be known and illuminated. 18Pay attention, therefore, to how you listen. Whoever has will be given more, but whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken away from him."...

Proverbs 26:26
Though his hatred is concealed by deception, his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.

Matthew 10:26
So do not be afraid of them. For there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, and nothing hidden that will not be made known.


 
Mark 4:22
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be brought to light.

Luke 12:2
There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, and nothing hidden that will not be made known.

Treasury of Scripture
For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

nothing.

Luke 12:2,3
For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known...

Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Matthew 10:26
Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.


I believe it is very personal  within us all   , like a resurrection   of sorts  , the evil and the good  both spring up  from being hidden  within  us and others   and battle for the ruling and reigning in us all   in the order  we all  become aware of .

  Hebrews 11  proved this for me it was by faith  in God that they were all made known   and we can everyone relate to those names   given  as they were all in Christ  working out their own salvation    .
as we also  maybe loosing earth but gaining heaven    as our true and eternal home .

Just some thoughts  GIL , you are not alone  , as we keep praying for one another    , if one suffers than all suffer in the same  way  as the body of Christ  moves and has its being .
Its a living thing     that overcomes the world   

Christ faith overcomes the world. It is written in 1John 5:4 "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith."

  :Pray:  in  :HeartThrob:  for  you and all

[MusicLover123]

Go read my post called Rest. It ties into this.

Like I said in that, we need to realize who works in us. If we are trying all the time to control our problems, instead of relaxing and letting the Spirit work in us, like Sheila said, we are trying to take the burden off of Jesus and trying to do all of His work.

Realize that God works patiently on His vessels. He is not rushing His creations, but making them perfect. It takes His faith, a child like faith, to not only know(head knowledge) but know(heart knowledge.)

Satan and his minions love when someone doesn't rejoice in their circumstances, no matter how bad they are. He wants us to compare our progress with God with others progress with God. This is what I'm being taught. This is why we are told to rejoice always. Dwelling on our problems instead of Jesus creates doubt, and that opens doors.

God also uses these experiences to humble us. Sometimes He needs people to hit rock bottom to use them effectively.

"Be still(relax) and know that I am God." And "put on the full armor of God, as we don't wrestle against flesh and blood..."

[marie glen]

Amen! Some very good words in this thread! :dsunny: :girlheart:

:Chinscratch: Moses threw down those tablets..  amen!!

Lately I've been getting stressed and I have picked up the (rather unattractive, I'm sure) habit of muttering under my breath.. Now how does this measure alongside of, "do all things as if doing them for the Lord"?!

But.. I too forgive myself ASAP. Submit myself to the Lord and keep on.. I figured out, if the Spirit of the Lord wants me to be merciful and kind concerning others.. how love is to cover a multitude of flaw(s) (in my attitude) then that was also the attitude toward me! I had one of those hard upbringings, so this was good news. So early on in my walk I let myself be easy on myself. Which the accuser used to try from time to time to accuse me concerning it, but "whatsoever things are good.. think on those things". And as long as I was seeking the Lord..

The "Rest" thread, I agree, is very good on this.. And John 15, how Jesus is our vine.. we're the branches, if we abide on the vine, fruit will continue to grow. We can rest in Him.

[When I used to diet, I always thought of those verses! It seems to me, the more I tried to diet, the hungrier I was! My spirit wanted to diet.. but what I didn't want to do. I did! Day after day.. Oy.]
    :girlheart:

[jugghead]

Here is something I wrote a few weeks back:

When I was working for my dad, being taught the trade of being a drywall taper, my dad would constantly yell at me for not doing the job right, for not doing it right the first time. My dad was a yeller, raising his voice constantly, Why did he raise his voice? Because when he asked or told me to do something nicely, I usually did not listen or agree with him. It wasn't until later in life that I come to understand that the reason I didn't listen or agree, was because, I didn't think it was that important at the time, I was just a kid, and that in itself is why I didn't do it right, therefore I was either yelled at, or I was disciplined. Children have to be taught the importance of doing it right and doing it right the first time.

When a child learns the importance of doing it right, it turns into a desire to do it right, because that child wants to please his father. But if that child doesn't learn how important it is to his father, he starts to think to himself, "why even try" because if he fails, the child fears being punished for it. Now I ask this question: "Do you believe that this would cause stress on the relationship between a child and their father? That it would cause a separation between the two?"

The Lord took my dad home in 1988, and it actually was not until this last year (2018) that I fully understood what my dad was doing, and it came through my studies of God's written word. My dad had a passion for perfection, especially his work, he had the reputation for getting the job done the right way and getting it done the right way the first time. And it seemed to me, because of my own immaturity, that no matter what I did, he could always find fault in anything I did, and that was because I did not understand the importance of doing it right.

The thing is, my dad never sat me down and explained that this was him, that he had a passion for perfection and that it was very important to him. The reason I believe he never did sit me down was because he didn't fully understand that's exactly what it was, therefore he didn't know "how" to explain it, and I was left to myself in wondering why I was being yelled at so much. But, even if he had sat me down and explained the importance of doing it right, I probably didn't hear him because I was too focused on what he would do if I failed. I was living in fear rather than understanding his love for perfection and that he was trying to train me.

It is only now, by having children of my own and being shown these things through my studies of the written word, that I can fully forgive my dad for all the times he yelled at me or disciplined me. It is only now, as an adult, that I have more respect for his authority at that time, then I did when I was still growing up ..... when I was still a child. All this because I misinterpreted my dad's passion for perfection as anger. Is this what man has done towards our heavenly Father? Misunderstood His intentions through discipline ..... through training us to do it right?

So, the only question I have is: do you recognize it as "a passion" in you and does the rest of your family not recognize it either?

[guest6088]

Here is something I wrote a few weeks back:

When I was working for my dad, being taught the trade of being a drywall taper, my dad would constantly yell at me for not doing the job right, for not doing it right the first time. My dad was a yeller, raising his voice constantly, Why did he raise his voice? Because when he asked or told me to do something nicely, I usually did not listen or agree with him. It wasn't until later in life that I come to understand that the reason I didn't listen or agree, was because, I didn't think it was that important at the time, I was just a kid, and that in itself is why I didn't do it right, therefore I was either yelled at, or I was disciplined. Children have to be taught the importance of doing it right and doing it right the first time.

When a child learns the importance of doing it right, it turns into a desire to do it right, because that child wants to please his father. But if that child doesn't learn how important it is to his father, he starts to think to himself, "why even try" because if he fails, the child fears being punished for it. Now I ask this question: "Do you believe that this would cause stress on the relationship between a child and their father? That it would cause a separation between the two?"

The Lord took my dad home in 1988, and it actually was not until this last year (2018) that I fully understood what my dad was doing, and it came through my studies of God's written word. My dad had a passion for perfection, especially his work, he had the reputation for getting the job done the right way and getting it done the right way the first time. And it seemed to me, because of my own immaturity, that no matter what I did, he could always find fault in anything I did, and that was because I did not understand the importance of doing it right.

The thing is, my dad never sat me down and explained that this was him, that he had a passion for perfection and that it was very important to him. The reason I believe he never did sit me down was because he didn't fully understand that's exactly what it was, therefore he didn't know "how" to explain it, and I was left to myself in wondering why I was being yelled at so much. But, even if he had sat me down and explained the importance of doing it right, I probably didn't hear him because I was too focused on what he would do if I failed. I was living in fear rather than understanding his love for perfection and that he was trying to train me.

It is only now, by having children of my own and being shown these things through my studies of the written word, that I can fully forgive my dad for all the times he yelled at me or disciplined me. It is only now, as an adult, that I have more respect for his authority at that time, then I did when I was still growing up ..... when I was still a child. All this because I misinterpreted my dad's passion for perfection as anger. Is this what man has done towards our heavenly Father? Misunderstood His intentions through discipline ..... through training us to do it right?

So, the only question I have is: do you recognize it as "a passion" in you and does the rest of your family not recognize it either?

:HeartThrob:

[rosered]

  Wonderful Jugg  :dsunny:

Understanding has a wonderful release   and peace  and forgiving  becomes easier  to do  .

  The Truth shall set you free    , no longer a slave to our own thoughts and fears ,  but truth makes us  sons of the Father  .

John 8      :HeartThrob:   Thanks for sharing....
 

[marie glen]

Amen! I totally agree! Wonderful post jugghead.. ad I reread ML's post just now and that was so right on too!! Some of my favorite verses I was taught byte Lord early on.. I really needed rest back then..! I never forgot them, likely kept me sane! During some very stressing times.. More upon my back could've been SO bad.. But those times taught me the importance of not adding to others burdens.. not even with attitude, expectation.. non friendly looks, disappointment.. But hearts yearn for acceptance, and ppl are drawn to the Lord by that, the spirit of love, which after all is Him! And Ottawa wisdom in the old saying you can draw more flies with honey than vinegar.. :gsmile:
Oops..dang should, eek, auto correct.. lotta wisdom lol.

[GodIsLove]

I really want to take the time to respond to  everyone individually but for now I will just say THANK YOU all so much, each post was helpful to me in a different and unique way. Most brought tears to my eyes.

Quick story:

Last night my almost 7 year old and almost 4 year old were arguing over a pillow at bedtime.

Usually when I see this nonsense, especially later in the day when I'm tired, I will try to reason with them and if it doesn't work I will get exasperated and do something like "if you can't work this out no one will have the pillow"

Last night I sat there observing the whole thing:

My older child, my son, had had a bad day. He told me this earlier. He was laying on his sister's pillow quietly, tears in his eyes. The younger one, my daughter was just bawling. Clearly they were both just tired and cranky.

I just started to talk. At first no one was listening and no one could even hear me over her cries.

But finally they quieted down when they heard I was saying something quietly.

I said things like: someone is going to have to make the choice to be the kind person and give the other one the pillow. Otherwise we are going to be up all night crying and fighting and we won't get sleep. And you might think having the pillow will make you happy, but you will actually eventually feel bad when you realize how you are upsetting someone you love over a pillow. The reason I often get upset when I see selfish behavior like this is because I wish the world was perfect. I wish we were all kind and loving and giving and we didn't fight or get angry or think selfishly. If everyone acted selfishly all the time the world would be a terrible place. We would all just hoard as much as we could and only think about ourselves and no one would ever be happy. If everyone only thought of other people and not of ourselves, you might think you wouldn't be happy, but actually everyone would be happy because we would all get our love and happiness from other people thinking of us and being kind to us, and being kind to others brings it's own happiness to us. You would be thinking of others but others would be thinking of YOU. So everyone would always be happy. For now there is a mix of both good and bad in the world. Some people say that the bad is here to teach us. Like how we can get burned by fire, but once we get burned we learn not to touch it. Once we learn how being selfish burns us and others, we won't do it anymore. Sometimes I get mad when we are selfish. But I should relax and know that we are all learning and eventually bad will no longer exist once we have all learned the lessons.

Silently, my son gave my daughter the pillow and she gave him hers.

Thank you all for the reminders to rest (ML) forgiveness of even myself (MG), to keep trusting, praying, asking and waiting on the lord and to remember all things will be exposed in the right time (Rose), to remember the accusing Spirit is not from God but from the adversary, and that this kind of strife is from evil that we will be free of someday (Sheila), to explain my reaction to my kids (Jugghead), to remember heroes are flawed and we are all flawed but the shame and guilt is not productive (Inspiration),

[guest6088]

I really want to take the time to respond to  everyone individually but for now I will just say THANK YOU all so much, each post was helpful to me in a different and unique way. Most brought tears to my eyes.

Quick story:

Last night my almost 7 year old and almost 4 year old were arguing over a pillow at bedtime.

Usually when I see this nonsense, especially later in the day when I'm tired, I will try to reason with them and if it doesn't work I will get exasperated and do something like "if you can't work this out no one will have the pillow"

Last night I sat there observing the whole thing:

My older child, my son, had had a bad day. He told me this earlier. He was laying on his sister's pillow quietly, tears in his eyes. The younger one, my daughter was just bawling. Clearly they were both just tired and cranky.

I just started to talk. At first no one was listening and no one could even hear me over her cries.

But finally they quieted down when they heard I was saying something quietly.

I said things like: someone is going to have to make the choice to be the kind person and give the other one the pillow. Otherwise we are going to be up all night crying and fighting and we won't get sleep. And you might think having the pillow will make you happy, but you will actually eventually feel bad when you realize how you are upsetting someone you love over a pillow. The reason I often get upset when I see selfish behavior like this is because I wish the world was perfect. I wish we were all kind and loving and giving and we didn't fight or get angry or think selfishly. If everyone acted selfishly all the time the world would be a terrible place. We would all just hoard as much as we could and only think about ourselves and no one would ever be happy. If everyone only thought of other people and not of ourselves, you might think you wouldn't be happy, but actually everyone would be happy because we would all get our love and happiness from other people thinking of us and being kind to us, and being kind to others brings it's own happiness to us. You would be thinking of others but others would be thinking of YOU. So everyone would always be happy. For now there is a mix of both good and bad in the world. Some people say that the bad is here to teach us. Like how we can get burned by fire, but once we get burned we learn not to touch it. Once we learn how being selfish burns us and others, we won't do it anymore. Sometimes I get mad when we are selfish. But I should relax and know that we are all learning and eventually bad will no longer exist once we have all learned the lessons.

Silently, my son gave my daughter the pillow and she gave him hers.

Thank you all for the reminders to rest (ML) forgiveness of even myself (MG), to keep trusting, praying, asking and waiting on the lord and to remember all things will be exposed in the right time (Rose), to remember the accusing Spirit is not from God but from the adversary, and that this kind of strife is from evil that we will be free of someday (Sheila), to explain my reaction to my kids (Jugghead), to remember heroes are flawed and we are all flawed but the shame and guilt is not productive (Inspiration),

Hey thanks you helped me out with what you wrote too.

If everyone only thought of other people and not of ourselves, you might think you wouldn't be happy, but actually everyone would be happy because we would all get our love and happiness from other people thinking of us and being kind to us, and being kind to others brings it's own happiness to us. You would be thinking of others but others would be thinking of YOU. So everyone would always be happy.

Brilliant!   :dsunny:

[sheila]

Praise Our Father..for teaching and leading us all in a better way! :girlheart:

[rosered]

  Words heal  , just as much as they can wound .

I noticed   hurt people ,hurt people ..  Interceding  without choosing sides seems to me  ,

to be the Wisdom the world[spectacle ] needs to heal . all to see /witness

  The Christ or Holy Spirit anointing  connecting and gathering together  always  healing , what is  wounded  and scattered

Thanks you GIL    for sharing your   Spiritual  experience   with your children  and with us
and the Wisdom in the words   !


Much  love to you all   and the   each sharing  also    :HeartThrob:

[jugghead]

Thank you all for the reminders to rest (ML) forgiveness of even myself (MG), to keep trusting, praying, asking and waiting on the lord and to remember all things will be exposed in the right time (Rose), to remember the accusing Spirit is not from God but from the adversary, and that this kind of strife is from evil that we will be free of someday (Sheila), to explain my reaction to my kids (Jugghead), to remember heroes are flawed and we are all flawed but the shame and guilt is not productive (Inspiration),

and "THAT" is the Spirit of Christ (The Word) manifested through the body

Thank you GIL for being an example for all of us assembled as one

[GodIsLove]

Yes!  :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:

[Ross]

But finally they quieted down when they heard I was saying something quietly.

Amen! Your patience was rewarded.


Paul says this concept to the Thessalonians;

1 Thess 2;7 " Although we could have made demands as Apostles of Christ,
                    we were gentle among you, like a nursing mother tenderly nursing her own children."

1 Thess 2;11,11 " You are witnesses, and so is God, how devout , upright, and blameless was our conduct towards you believers,
                           how, as you know, we treated each one of you as a father would treat his own children."

My wife is a teacher and works on that very principle of standing firm, yet not raising the voice.
She stands and waits till the children notice, stop what they are doing, and actually listen. They do this because they recognise something wrong must be happening.
Pretty similar to how we ourselves only stop when we admit/see something is wrong.
Very much a part of learning.

I.M.O the problem is the flesh versus the spirit. The stuff Paul talks about in Romans 7.
After stating the struggle he states that this is the very reason why he must TOTALLY rely on the work of Christ.
Hence there is literally NO condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.

Galations points out in chapt 5 how the flesh versus spirit is where we currently are at in this age.
This struggle is pointing out the need for true love, and the fulfilment of the work of Christ as absolutely necessary.
This, for me, is the  reason we look ahead top the things to come, which then can release the phobias/fears of this age.

For me, part of growing, is seeing the differences between flesh and spirit so as to grow in grace and knowledge in Christ. The immediate family is a constant area of learning.

[guest6088]

But finally they quieted down when they heard I was saying something quietly.

Amen! Your patience was rewarded.


Paul says this concept to the Thessalonians;

1 Thess 2;7 " Although we could have made demands as Apostles of Christ,
                    we were gentle among you, like a nursing mother tenderly nursing her own children."

1 Thess 2;11,11 " You are witnesses, and so is God, how devout , upright, and blameless was our conduct towards you believers,
                           how, as you know, we treated each one of you as a father would treat his own children."

My wife is a teacher and works on that very principle of standing firm, yet not raising the voice.
She stands and waits till the children notice, stop what they are doing, and actually listen. They do this because they recognise something wrong must be happening.
Pretty similar to how we ourselves only stop when we admit/see something is wrong.
Very much a part of learning.

I.M.O the problem is the flesh versus the spirit. The stuff Paul talks about in Romans 7.
After stating the struggle he states that this is the very reason why he must TOTALLY rely on the work of Christ.
Hence there is literally NO condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.

Galations points out in chapt 5 how the flesh versus spirit is where we currently are at in this age.
This struggle is pointing out the need for true love, and the fulfilment of the work of Christ as absolutely necessary.
This, for me, is the  reason we look ahead top the things to come, which then can release the phobias/fears of this age.

For me, part of growing, is seeing the differences between flesh and spirit so as to grow in grace and knowledge in Christ. The immediate family is a constant area of learning.

Ross I found a lot of what you wrote here really useful...so thank you.  :dsunny:

[jugghead]

Amen Ross

Just like the animal nature "reacts" on instinct ..... so does the nature of man

But the Spirit stops to observe the circumstances and "thinks" about what to do or say, unlike the first nature that is to be laid down so the new nature can be picked up and it becomes stronger to overcome the first

for love triumphs over judgment, I.M.O. judgment is a basic "instinct" of the nature of man, it can react no other way

but to be of the Spirit is to "stop", "think" "observe" "think again" and "draw" the attention of others by not reacting on instinct.

As I reread the words of GIL and of others, I can not help but to think of all those in this world who speak of "love" but do not actually "know" Love (they honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me)

and that is because I fully believe, the more we actually "know" Love ..... the more we "become" Love, because when His heart becomes our heart, it is that Love (Light) that is manifested to this world

and I am sure others will agree

Jug

[GodIsLove]

Wow Ross and Jugghead! Great words, you both added a lot to this thread and things that I am personally learning and need to hear.

It is the battle between the two natures, as Rose often says. I can often tell which nature is in control, both in myself and others.

I recently heard something like this, thought i have put it in my own words and added to it a little... it resonated with me:

In regard to grace, we often think of our bodies as vessels to be filled with grace, and we often think of it as as a one time event. Instead it is as though we are conduits of grace, which means it flows through us and to others. We are conduits as long as we are connected to Christ, but we can sometimes be less open to receiving and this is when the carnal nature is in control. The "rest" in MusicLover's thread is about allowing oneself to be the conduit, instead of trying to be in control and trying to do all the right things, to allow grace and spirit to take control. 

This rest is obtained through dying to self, giving up control, feeling the waves of adversity, struggle, and suffering but knowing that you are tethered to God, Christ, the source, the spirit, and so you trust that all will be okay. It is having this peace that allows us to be slower to react, to not let our emotions get the best of us, to forgive, to observe, to love.

And yes, Jugghead, the more we know love the more we become love, but I can even see that people like us, and like myself...who speak as if we know love...we are still only knowing such a small portion of what Love/God truly is. The further I get on my spiritual journey, the more I realize how little
I truly know.

[jugghead]

Wow Ross and Jugghead! Great words, you both added a lot to this thread and things that I am personally learning and need to hear.

It is the battle between the two natures, as Rose often says. I can often tell which nature is in control, both in myself and others.

I recently heard something like this, thought i have put it in my own words and added to it a little... it resonated with me:

In regard to grace, we often think of our bodies as vessels to be filled with grace, and we often think of it as as a one time event. Instead it is as though we are conduits of grace, which means it flows through us and to others. We are conduits as long as we are connected to Christ, but we can sometimes be less open to receiving and this is when the carnal nature is in control. The "rest" in MusicLover's thread is about allowing oneself to be the conduit, instead of trying to be in control and trying to do all the right things, to allow grace and spirit to take control. 

This rest is obtained through dying to self, giving up control, feeling the waves of adversity, struggle, and suffering but knowing that you are tethered to God, Christ, the source, the spirit, and so you trust that all will be okay. It is having this peace that allows us to be slower to react, to not let our emotions get the best of us, to forgive, to observe, to love.

And yes, Jugghead, the more we know love the more we become love, but I can even see that people like us, and like myself...who speak as if we know love...we are still only knowing such a small portion of what Love/God truly is. The further I get on my spiritual journey, the more I realize how little
I truly know.

I would have to agree, it becomes a lifestyle rather than a one time event and I would also agree with "knowing" Love, I look at it this way, if we actually knew and experienced Love (as God is) to its fullest, the flesh of this body would instantly become dust, like "spontaneous human combustion", which I believe is just another way of looking at "no flesh can enter into the kingdom of heaven" (looking at it from a physical POV).

and it can also be viewed from the POV of a consuming fire ... that God Himself loves us so much that He has to shield Himself from us while we are in this physical body to keep from burning us or turning us into dust instantly (physically), but reveals enough to burn away the flesh of our spirit (spiritually).

But that's just my viewpoint

[GodIsLove]

Another timely post Jugghead! I JUST read exactly those thoughts from another source this evening! I love it when multiple sources confirm a lesson/truth/message to really emphasize it for my dense human mind!

[Ross]

In regard to grace, we often think of our bodies as vessels to be filled with grace, and we often think of it as as a one time event. Instead it is as though we are conduits of grace, which means it flows through us and to others.

2 Cor 3;18  " And we ALL, with unveiled faces beholding in a mirror the glory of the Lord,
                   ARE BEING TRANSFORMED INTO THE SAME IMAGE,
                    FROM ONE DEGREE OF GLORY TO ANOTHER,
                   JUST AS FROM THE  LORD WHO IS THE SPIRIT."

The Greek phrases this as an ongoing process- NEVER stops.
So, just as you say, we are a conduit to exude the grace of Jesus in ALL our activities and walk of life.

May He bless you more and more as you are obviously growing in His love.