Questions on resources to research

[MusicLover123]

Hey all! I have some questions regarding some resources I am interested in getting eventually, but want to know if anyone has any knowledge on them before buying...

First up: http://www.epsociety.org/
I have known about them for a while, but have not bought anything from them. Are they good? i am specifically looking to get some journals if it is worth it.

Second: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/0801039525/?coliid=I1H7Z6NGK12Y9R&colid=1M0LRYWC6VHQ7&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
A bit of a scholarly yet readable work on the credibility Miracles and the New Testament. Anyone know about this, and if it is worth getting?

Third: Any good works on a response to Freud? I usually see some of his ideas floating around nowadays, but wanted to know some good literature, websites, etc. responding to him.

Lastly, any good resources on NDE's? I have been thinking about them more recently, and curious about any books on the phenomenon itself, and any in depth accounts of experiences had.

Thanks!  :Peace2:

[marie glen]

Hi ML123!

:Chinscratch: I haven't heard of any of those.. This thread on NDE's may mention some books.. or sites - http://tentmaker.org/forum/discussions-on-universal-salvation/are-near-death-experiences-satanic/msg199129/#msg199129 ..Nope.. no links or books but interesting, one page thread..

http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-threatenings-explained/nde's/msg179218 - another thread.. one book linked

http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/nde's-that-have-a-hellish-nature/msg37674/#msg37674 - this one too.. a book linked..

:dunno: if any of it is what you're looking for but the threads look interesting.. :gsmile:

[WhiteWings]

Lastly, any good resources on NDE's? I have been thinking about them more recently, and curious about any books on the phenomenon itself, and any in depth accounts of experiences had.

https://www.near-death.com/religion/god-is-with-us/the-near-death-experience-and-universal-salvation.html
https://nderf.org/index.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Visions-God-Near-Death-Experience/dp/0943914663
https://www.amazon.com/Golden-Thread-Universal-Salvation-Paperback/dp/B00G61BG4G
https://we.tl/qSxZZklRMI

[marie glen]

About Freud, this site looks interesting -
http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/churpsyc/freud.html

Christianity according to Sigmund Freud
The aim of this article is to examine the false foundations of Freudian belief especially with regard to its interpretation of religion. In order to understand Freud's psychology, we need to appreciate his complex personality and we will therefore begin with a biographical sketch.

Freud was also deeply interested in witchcraft and other occult phenomena. On Saturday evenings, he would frequently play tarock - a card game associated with the Kabbala. However, he appeared to have a conscious hatred of religion - both Orthodox Judaism and Christianity. In 1937, when he was urged to flee Nazism, he responded that his real enemy was the Roman Catholic Church. Interesting enough, his childhood hero was Hanibal, the Carthaginian besieger of Rome.

:faint:

[MusicLover123]

Thanks for the links so far... Really appreciate it.

I guess no thoughts on that book then? That is fine, if you do not know if it is good oe not, why give thoughts on it, right?

One type of NDE that really fascinates me is from blind people. Have not read any accounts from these people, but anyone know of any themselves?

Marie, on that last link you mentioned for that book, the site looks... Interesting. The guy has a section for reincarnation, and seems to be the "all religions are the same" type of deal. This is from what I have seen so far, at least.

Oh, and Whitewings, how does the first book you mentioned read? It had 3 stars on the Amazon website, so just a bit skeptical if I should get it or not.

[marie glen]

 :Chinscratch: yes, I didn't follow the links, just read the threads.. Except the one about Freud, I read a little.. :gsmile:

[WhiteWings]

I don't have the first book so I can't comment, but I can on the books and sites with NDE's. They all look the same. NDEs in printed books aren't extra spectacular. So unless you have preference reading from paper I would suggest to read what you can find online.
There are many NDEs but they often look quite similar. Most of them are short. Most of the time people are changed by it.
It's not clear to me what exactly you are after. Is it just about reading hundreds of NDEs? Or is it more the research that has been on on them, besides collecting them.
In both cases I think you should start with the two websites.

[MusicLover123]

Yeah, I guess it would be both finding a bunch of accounts of them, and finding the research done. As mentioned, it would also being interesting for myself to read some NDE's from blind people.

On another note, how would you respond to someone who claims that these accounts are simply in response to drugs?

[GodIsLove]

Yeah, I guess it would be both finding a bunch of accounts of them, and finding the research done. As mentioned, it would also being interesting for myself to read some NDE's from blind people.

On another note, how would you respond to someone who claims that these accounts are simply in response to drugs?

I went through a phase of reading a ton of NDEs. As far as I can remember, the majority had nothing to do with drugs, and many people were clinically dead to the point of no brain waves, some for hours.
The majority point to a loving God, and many come back believing in God or having their faith strengthened.

Some people have hellish experiences, but they all come back to tell the story therefore whatever they experienced wasn't eternal.

Most are similar to each other but some are not, and I do think their own mind state of mind and their own interpretation of what they saw comes in to play. I still have no idea what an NDE truly is, but the fact that many atheists come back believing in God, and many people are changed point to some sort of possible spiritual experience happening.

Also, I would imagine some are fake, but many are pretty compelling that the person truly believes whatever happened to them was real and was some sort of spiritual experience.

[jabcat]

I do think their own mind state of mind and their own interpretation of what they saw comes in to play. I still have no idea what an NDE truly is, but the fact that many atheists come back believing in God, and many people are changed point to some sort of possible spiritual experience happening.

Also, I would imagine some are fake, but many are pretty compelling that the person truly believes whatever happened to them was real and was some sort of spiritual experience.

Puzzling to me.  In the past I've put quite a bit of emphasis on NDEs, including one particular one on Lighthouse.org of a man who says while in a sort of "purgatory" he had tasks to do, and at the end of the day was ministered to by angels - comforting and encouraging him, etc.  However, lately I guess I'm a little more, well, not so sure.  Interestingly enough, just last night while laying in bed, I had a NDE.         NOOO!  I'm just kidding.  Got your attention though didn't it?  :punish:     Really, I was laying there listening to the radio and heard a guy talking about NDEs.  He reports he had one, and stated he was raised as he put it, "secular".  So his NDE, though he described it as positive, had no specific "religious" overtones.  He said "some beings" told him he wasn't done, hadn't done some things right, had some things to do" etc.  He said they could be angels, he wasn't sure.  Nothing about Jesus, God, etc.  He had apparently studied NDEs, and went on to share how people of different faiths, Hindus, etc., reported seeing "their deity".  Went on to describe a sort of "all roads, whatever fits each person's prior life", was their experience in the "afterlife".  Now, that's just one person talking about his views and findings, but honestly, that does anything BUT help me believe NDEs are real and/or especially an experience of YHWH.  So I'm just more skeptical/wondering more than ever at this point.   :2c:

[GodIsLove]

Interestingly enough, just last night while laying in bed, I had a NDE.         NOOO!  I'm just kidding.  Got your attention though didn't it?

:laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

On another note, how would you respond to someone who claims that these accounts are simply in response to drugs?

Never read one on drugs. Closest was about a guy that poisoned by a jellyfish I think.

NDEs are often life-changing in a good way. When drugs ever did that?

You also have to filter out the lies. Some are on a crusade against religion. So they come up with all sorts of claims to debunk NDEs which are proof of afterlife.

Or just to sell books....
"So many stories about Christians seeing Jesus, I'll write a bestseller about the god I believe in."
"Christians are idiots, I'm gonna write a book that shows I met Jesus, satan and pink flying elephants after I had a few six-packs, it surely will sell among atheists."

EDIT
Let's not forget to add Christians this list.

"My pastor told me the first 'thing' you see after you die is Jesus. So all NDE's saying otherwise are fake."
That's just doctrine. Nowhere in the Bible it states such things.

But often seeing Jesus isn't enough. They also meet Elvis and and according to the views of their denomination Elvis should be in hell.
I have to admit NDEs with Elvis are fake because he's still alive  :banana:


Well, I think I made my point in a very clear way. There are always ways to discredit something. That's so in all aspects of life. NDE, religion, politics, sports, etc.

[WhiteWings]

One type of NDE that really fascinates me is from blind people. Have not read any accounts from these people, but anyone know of any themselves?

Just ask mr. Google

[MusicLover123]

One type of NDE that really fascinates me is from blind people. Have not read any accounts from these people, but anyone know of any themselves?

Just ask mr. Google

Well, thanks to Mr. Google, this is the first thing I see...

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21805

Kind of makes me doubt a bit at first glance( many things do admittingly)
Got any responses to them?

[WhiteWings]

For every response there will be a counter-reponse....

Ok, I can understand blind people can have some sort of response to light like:
"light stimulates day-like brain activity, improving alertness and mood, and enhancing performance on many cognitive tasks,"

but that's far different from seeing things. Even very small things like a wedding ring. Even tiny details like orange blossom on the edges of the ring.

It's simple.
On this forum we do our best to promote UR. Elsewhere they try to debunk UR.
On Christian forums they try to prove God. On atheist forums it's all about debunking God.
On leftwing forums they ridicule rightwing. On rightwing they do the opposite.
On Christian forums they promote creationism. On other forums they mock it.
Likewise with NDEs.......

[WhiteWings]

Lastly, any good resources on NDE's? I have been thinking about them more recently, and curious about any books on the phenomenon itself, and any in depth accounts of experiences had.

Thanks!  :Peace2:

Not blind, not NDE, but I think you will like it anyway...
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Autistic+Boy+Sees+Mind-Blowing+Visions+from+Heaven%21++Tahni+Cullen

[MusicLover123]

As I was browsing through the NDERF website, I found a couple so far to be particularly interesting. (In the second last link on the NDE archive page)

First up: http://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1shibani_nde.html

I found this part pretty disturbing(demoralizing?)

The way that this experience changed me was, that I am no longer scared of death, because I know, that firstly there is no pain associated with death, and secondly, I will not feel sad at having left the ones I loved, because, I will have no attachments left, I will be free.

This guy claims it was a Buddhist NDE. What I detest to mostly is how these people talk of others as "attachments." If the physical world is an illusion, and people in it, then why would these things appear in the first place? How can these people do things like Science if they think it is an illusion beforehand? In terms of morality, doesn't Karma pressupose morality in the first place? Why do they think of evil acts in a negative light, if in their system, these things are required to keep "balance" in the universe? What is their basis for morality, other than arbitrary human opinion? No human opinion is more authoritative than another, as we are all human and gives no good reason to follow it other then "do this because I said so."

Secondly: http://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1bill_v_nde.htm

What I find interesting about this NDE is that he claims that he was basically in connection to the universe, that he saw energy connected or something, and he only feels this again when meditating.

Did you have a change in your values and beliefs because of your experience? Yes I seemed to develop a special knowledge that was a direct result of a probable exchange of energy.

Can anyone try to explain his possible NDE, and if he interpreted it wrong? Also, what is the deal with meditation? Why do people only claim to experience these things through it, and what is the possible cause for these things?

Third:

http://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1bob_a_nde.html

This was one of the more interesting depictions for myself. I was fascinated by a lot of what he claimed, but I was taken aback from him claiming to see a past life of himself.

Reincarnation

I had a profound experience where I saw myself as a Union soldier in the Civil War. My shoes were tattered, I could feel the cold coming through the holes in the toes. I was so tired, and missing my sword. I was walking along a gully picking up heads to see if anyone was alive after the attack at Antietem. Later, I was visiting relatives and had an odd feeling that I needed to drive around and find something related to the Civil War. I came upon an American Indian museum. Although I couldn't understand why I was there, I got out anyway. As I passed a tepee, I got the strangest feeling. I went to the curator and asked about the tepee. He said that a fellow named Larry, insisted that it be part of the collection and that it was from the Civil War.

I contacted Larry and we had a good talk that evening. I found out that he also had flashbacks of the war, just like I did. We didn't know our connection, but somehow we were tied together. He encouraged me to go the 135th anniversary reenactment of Gettysburg. When the time came, I went and was trying to find Larry. In the first place that I checked, nobody knew him. So, I prayed to God and was directed to a spot in the middle of a Confederate camp. It turned out that Larry wasn't there, but his brother was. His brother told me that Larry couldn't make it because he was allergic to the wool suit. All through this, I was having a lot of flashbacks.

When I got home, I immediately called Larry. I told him that I forgave him, as he was the soldier who ordered that my battalion be slaughtered and who took my sword. Larry burst into a mighty emotional release over the phone. This was such a moving moment. It is never too late to forgive - in this life or from another.

Do you think this is true? If it is, is it really a reincarnation vision, or is it something true, but not like it is interpreted? If you want to, may commentate on other claims on this NDE?

Fourth: First time I have heard of OBE(Out of Body Experience.) Thought it was only possible in NDE's. I don't think I have had it before, but maybe something like it? Recently if I am doing something, or laying down, I suddenly feel a bit disconnected or something from my body. A bit weird to describe candidly. Like I can look at, say, my arm, but it feels much more distant from usual. It lasts for maybe 15 seconds, then goes away. Maybe related?

A couple more things of interest is the claims of talking to previously dead people(eg. a relative.) If these really are true, anyone know why?

I also saw one NDE claiming to be similar to the Shaman. Never heard of it before, but some help on that would be nice.

I will have more questions on others as I continue, but thanks for any feedback for the moment.

Blessings  :HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

The way that this experience changed me was, that I am no longer scared of death, because I know, that firstly there is no pain associated with death, and secondly, I will not feel sad at having left the ones I loved, because, I will have no attachments left, I will be free.

My thoughts on this.
No longer scared of death obviously is good.

Not feeling sad having left loved ones is obvious too. If heaven is perfect happiness there is no sadness.

No attachments is how you look at it. Not being sad about the ones you left behind is no attachments. The Bible says we will be one-in-one. You can understand that as one huge attachment, but just as well as none.
Here on earth we live in little groups. Family has strong bonds. Friends a bit less. Nation less.
If you look at it wars are always cause because of bonds. Bounded group against bonded group. But without bonds there is only one big group.

No attachments can also mean all links to negativity, hate, debt, pain, sickness, are broken. Also the remembrance of them. If not there would be an eternal grudge against people from that other bond-group (nation) that bombed your bond-group (nation)

:2c:

[WhiteWings]

The reincarnation I wouldn't describe as such. More like a teaching I think. Or was Larry reincarnated too? Was is about the war or about forgiving?
I've read another NDE that was most certainly not about reincarnation; the person had to forgive several other people (from this life) before he could be restored.

[WhiteWings]

A couple more things of interest is the claims of talking to previously dead people(eg. a relative.) If these really are true, anyone know why?

That's another difficult thing. I simply don't know for sure but have few thoughts.
In de OT talking to the dead is a bad thing. See the witch of Endor.

The big question is are all dead still dead after Christ rose?
Jesus spoke to Moses and Elijah. Was that an illegal activity?
Paul wasn't sure himself, but it was a vision or really taken to heaven. He saw dead people doing stuff there.
People in NDEs quite often meet people that died.

Yeah, they even meet Jesus who died too. Yeah, He rose from the dead. And that's just my point.
Many people believe all the dead are still very dead and stay that way until Christ returns at a certain time in the future.

So could it be true that even if Jesus is returning in year XXXX, it's a little/vastly more complex than that?
That those that believe in Him are with Him now. Alive. ???


I do have signals* that (some) dead people are more alive that the both of us combined.
*=Not talking about mediums, voodoo or similar sorta crap.

[MusicLover123]

No longer scared of death obviously is good.

Not feeling sad having left loved ones is obvious too. If heaven is perfect happiness there is no sadness.

Yeah, I guess you are right.

But, If we are in heaven, or whatever it is, if our loved ones are not there, why would you happy about that? If it is some memory wipe, that would make God the greatest deceiver in history. What if someone was a catalyst for your faith, but now has a dead faith and is not with you? In this scenario, would you remember that person and have eternal grief?

[MusicLover123]

The reincarnation I wouldn't describe as such. More like a teaching I think. Or was Larry reincarnated too? Was is about the war or about forgiving?
I've read another NDE that was most certainly not about reincarnation; the person had to forgive several other people (from this life) before he could be restored.

Oh, I should have made clear, the reincarnation story was not the NDE. Just something I wanted to emphasize. If I quoted the whole thing, no one would read it.

In short, the NDE is basically this: a dyslexic guy was working on a church roof one day. One board is loose, falls through the roof and lands on the ground "like being hit with a 100km train." NDE starts, and claims he stood up and saw moments of his life on different train carts. Claims he saw all this through light  within a blink of an eye, where time lost its meaning. A week later, his arm falls out of his socket, even though apparently he landed on his feet and was still in the same spot the whole time. Claims that afterward he had all sorts of gifts given to him. Eg. being skilled at carpentry, solving a murder case, and that reincarnation thing I quoted. Says one time he went to a hypnotist and he felt the experience again, but this time was watching himself fall from the roof 300 feet up in the clouds.

I left details out, but only to encourage people to actually read the stories instead of reading a small excerpt and basing their conclusions on that...

[MusicLover123]

So could it be true that even if Jesus is returning in year XXXX, it's a little/vastly more complex than that?
That those that believe in Him are with Him now. Alive. ???

I used to be thinking that you stay dead until Resurrection. As you mentioned, I don't think it is as simple as some make it. Was it changed at Christ's Resurrection?

For example, "The dead know nothing" from Ecclesiastes. What if it is actually referring to carnal/natural state of man?

I would not mind either way though. I do not want to wait hundreds/thousands/millions of years until having the full experience  :dunno2:

[WhiteWings]

No longer scared of death obviously is good.

Not feeling sad having left loved ones is obvious too. If heaven is perfect happiness there is no sadness.

Yeah, I guess you are right.

But, If we are in heaven, or whatever it is, if our loved ones are not there, why would you happy about that? If it is some memory wipe, that would make God the greatest deceiver in history. What if someone was a catalyst for your faith, but now has a dead faith and is not with you? In this scenario, would you remember that person and have eternal grief?

There are ways to look at it but all are speculation.
One way is that time is much slower in heaven. Like a day is like a 1000 years. So for you it feels your loved ones followed you in a few hours, but still they lived their full life.

Or time is the same but you don't feel bad because you now know the plans God has for those left behind. You will be even happy to witness those plans to unfold.

You call it a memory wipe.  Well, I don't believe that will happen, but something will happen. You get a new body, that includes new heart and brain. Everyone is friends in heaven. No grudges.
Ask yourself how that can be. Just a few examples.
Two ancient warriors who killed each other on the battlefield as friends.
Fierce political opponents will be friends.
Protestants and Catholics who spend their who life hating eachother will be friends.
muslims will love the Jewish God.
Yeah, even those who worked at IRS will have friends  :icon_jokercolor:

[WhiteWings]

The reincarnation I wouldn't describe as such. More like a teaching I think. Or was Larry reincarnated too? Was is about the war or about forgiving?
I've read another NDE that was most certainly not about reincarnation; the person had to forgive several other people (from this life) before he could be restored.

Oh, I should have made clear, the reincarnation story was not the NDE. Just something I wanted to emphasize. If I quoted the whole thing, no one would read it.

In short, the NDE is basically this: a dyslexic guy was working on a church roof one day. One board is loose, falls through the roof and lands on the ground "like being hit with a 100km train." NDE starts, and claims he stood up and saw moments of his life on different train carts.

Looks like a life review seen in many NDEs. Nobody know what the White Throne Judgement looks like, but it's not strange to assume it includes a life review.

Claims he saw all this through light  within a blink of an eye, where time lost its meaning. A week later, his arm falls out of his socket, even though apparently he landed on his feet and was still in the same spot the whole time. Claims that afterward he had all sorts of gifts given to him. Eg. being skilled at carpentry,

That's weird. Yesterday I watched a TV show on YouTube. A guy was taken up to heaven, met Jesus, Who gave him music lessons. He returned and plays 9 instruments  fluently. He also plays a certain type of sax, sounded good (I'm far from an expert) but the claim was that the sound was a prophesy for some. And yeah, some in the audience started crying.

solving a murder case, and that reincarnation thing I quoted. Says one time he went to a hypnotist and he felt the experience again, but this time was watching himself fall from the roof 300 feet up in the clouds.

I left details out, but only to encourage people to actually read the stories instead of reading a small excerpt and basing their conclusions on that...

Well I don't have all the answers. I just wonder that reincarnation was intended to be one. He fall twice from the roof, but that didn't really happen. The trains didn't really happen. Maybe the trains looked very old and it can be claimed that was another reincarnation.
So perhaps things are misunderstood. People also tend to start filling in gaps. Or go beyond the new skill given. Let's take your carpenter guy. He's great at carpentry now and because he was taught by Jesus everyone likes him so much he's also giving plumbing lessons, which he's really bad at.
Or maby all is fake. Just a way to sell books...