I'm currently in discussion via email with what my pastor would call a "Sabatarin Judaizer"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaizers. The man's name is Don Harris, and his website is http://www.thinkredink.com/. I heard one of his radio broadcasts on a local station.
Anyways, here's my question:
Are the 10 Commandments considered the most important out of the 613, Scripturally speaking? Or even culturally speaking back in the time they were written?
I'm reading through lists of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments).
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot
Seems like the 10 Commandments are just a part of all those, and in some cases way down the list, so to speak. And I know Jesus said the Greatest Commandment of all was:
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. - Matthew 22:37. Which isn't one of the Ten Commandments.
I think the Bible pretty much says if you break any one of the 613 laws, you're basically as guilty as if you broke all of them. (Matthew 5:17-19)
And I can see we Christian Gentiles in no way obey all 613. I don't even understand what a lot of them are talking about due to cultural significance.
Especially regarding the Sabbath, people go on about Paul saying let no one judge you regarding a Sabbath, and in Acts they broke bread on the 1st day, The Lord's Day.
But isn't all of that moot? If we're not keeping all 613 Commandments, isn't that just as bad as breaking one of the 10 Commandments? Or do the 10 take precedence?
For me the purpose of the law was to illuminate the fact that it's impossible for us to keep it . . .Jeeze, when Mose came down the mountain . ..he couldn't even deliver it cuz he was so upset that the nation was already breaking it.
There are two laws . .they are with in the 10. The first five of the ten deal with God . .the last five deal with each other . . the two laws we are to really be concerned with are loving God, and loving our neighbor . . .anything else is chasing a shadow.
Brian, you are good for me. Your honest, no nonsense approach and questions are great to my ears. Sometimes all of us, and I mean all of us, tend to get 'religious' in our way of thinking and talk.
I think God could have written the Bible in about 2 sentences, the 2 being discussed here.
Question to all........Why do we have all the rest of the Bible? Does it really build faith or confusion? Does it make for peace among people or contention?
cp
:cloud9: From what I've been shown as a "spiritual priest" of God by virtue of being in the inner court realm, what matters most is that not one of my "stones" be broken, which would negate me from serving in the temple. So upon these 2, the whole of the 10 hang. The 2 stones, once fulfilled spiritually in the believer, are our ability to procreate the life of His Spirit to others. Blessings....
Quote from: Nathan on March 09, 2009, 09:49:17 PM
For me the purpose of the law was to illuminate the fact that it's impossible for us to keep it . . .Jeeze, when Mose came down the mountain . ..he couldn't even deliver it cuz he was so upset that the nation was already breaking it.
There are two laws . .they are with in the 10. The first five of the ten deal with God . .the last five deal with each other . . the two laws we are to really be concerned with are loving God, and loving our neighbor . . .anything else is chasing a shadow.
So what's your take on guy's like Don Harris, who "takes his Bible into the desert"?
http://www.thinkredink.com/About/index.htm
Deceiver? Decieved? Clueless?
Quote from: Cardinal on March 09, 2009, 10:11:15 PM
:cloud9: From what I've been shown as a "spiritual priest" of God by virtue of being in the inner court realm, what matters most is that not one of my "stones" be broken, which would negate me from serving in the temple. So upon these 2, the whole of the 10 hang. The 2 stones, once fulfilled spiritually in the believer, are our ability to procreate the life of His Spirit to others. Blessings....
Geeeeeze Card, I read your post a few times and then the light dawned! I laughed. I never saw the analogy of the 2 stones before. Gee whiz, what a God we serve. You think He is laughing his head off at us trying to make sense of everything. He's probably saying to His Son that they should have added another book or 2 the mix to really get us hopping!!!
The whole of the 10 hang.......now thats good phrasing I guess.
cp
Quote from: Brian on March 09, 2009, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: Nathan on March 09, 2009, 09:49:17 PM
For me the purpose of the law was to illuminate the fact that it's impossible for us to keep it . . .Jeeze, when Mose came down the mountain . ..he couldn't even deliver it cuz he was so upset that the nation was already breaking it.
There are two laws . .they are with in the 10. The first five of the ten deal with God . .the last five deal with each other . . the two laws we are to really be concerned with are loving God, and loving our neighbor . . .anything else is chasing a shadow.
So what's your take on guy's like Don Harris, who "takes his Bible into the desert"?
http://www.thinkredink.com/About/index.htm
Deceiver? Decieved? Clueless?
wait a min....he actully took his bible in the desert?!
Quote from: Brian on March 09, 2009, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: Nathan on March 09, 2009, 09:49:17 PM
For me the purpose of the law was to illuminate the fact that it's impossible for us to keep it . . .Jeeze, when Mose came down the mountain . ..he couldn't even deliver it cuz he was so upset that the nation was already breaking it.
There are two laws . .they are with in the 10. The first five of the ten deal with God . .the last five deal with each other . . the two laws we are to really be concerned with are loving God, and loving our neighbor . . .anything else is chasing a shadow.
So what's your take on guy's like Don Harris, who "takes his Bible into the desert"?
http://www.thinkredink.com/About/index.htm
Deceiver? Decieved? Clueless?
What does taking his Bible into the desert have to do with anything?
cp
Quote from: Cardinal on March 09, 2009, 10:11:15 PM
So upon these 2, the whole of the 10 hang. The 2 stones, once fulfilled spiritually in the believer, are our ability to procreate the life of His Spirit to others. Blessings....
Do you think Jesus just meant the 2 of the 10, or the 2 of the 613?
I guess what I'm driving at is; do the 10 take precedence over the 613, or is that a just Gentile invention? I know Ellen G. White was harping on #4 before the movie came out, or I'd blame it on that.
Quote from: Brian on March 09, 2009, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on March 09, 2009, 10:11:15 PM
So upon these 2, the whole of the 10 hang. The 2 stones, once fulfilled spiritually in the believer, are our ability to procreate the life of His Spirit to others. Blessings....
Do you think Jesus just meant the 2 of the 10, or the 2 of the 613?
I guess what I'm driving at is; do the 10 take precedence over the 613, or is that a just Gentile invention? I know Ellen G. White was harping on #4 before the movie came out, or I'd blame it on that.
I still answer.....
I think God could have written the Bible in about 2 sentences, the 2 being discussed here.
Question to all........Why do we have all the rest of the Bible? Does it really build faith or confusion? Does it make for peace among people or contention?
cp
Quote from: IceDash on March 09, 2009, 10:25:56 PM
Quote from: Brian on March 09, 2009, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: Nathan on March 09, 2009, 09:49:17 PM
For me the purpose of the law was to illuminate the fact that it's impossible for us to keep it . . .Jeeze, when Mose came down the mountain . ..he couldn't even deliver it cuz he was so upset that the nation was already breaking it.
There are two laws . .they are with in the 10. The first five of the ten deal with God . .the last five deal with each other . . the two laws we are to really be concerned with are loving God, and loving our neighbor . . .anything else is chasing a shadow.
So what's your take on guy's like Don Harris, who "takes his Bible into the desert"?
http://www.thinkredink.com/About/index.htm
Deceiver? Decieved? Clueless?
wait a min....he actully took his bible in the desert?!
That's what he said on the broadcast I heard. He's traveling around the country on a bus he owns, which doubles as his studio. I believe what he was getting at was he went to the mountain top, so to speak, to get divine revelation.
And he sounds so sincere. One of his callers said she expects to see him with the other 23 out of 24 elders in Heaven.
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 10:46:30 PM
Question to all........Why do we have all the rest of the Bible? Does it really build faith or confusion? Does it make for peace among people or contention?
cp
Hey Bro, start your own thread! :hijacked: :HeartThrob:
Seriously. It's an excellent subject. I see I'm not the only one here in :BangHead: mode.
Quote from: Brian on March 09, 2009, 10:53:56 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 10:46:30 PM
Question to all........Why do we have all the rest of the Bible? Does it really build faith or confusion? Does it make for peace among people or contention?
cp
Hey Bro, start your own thread! :hijacked: :HeartThrob:
Seriously. It's an excellent subject. I see I'm not the only one here in :BangHead: mode.
OK
Quote from: Cardinal on March 09, 2009, 10:11:15 PM
:cloud9: From what I've been shown as a "spiritual priest" of God by virtue of being in the inner court realm, what matters most is that not one of my "stones" be broken, which would negate me from serving in the temple. So upon these 2, the whole of the 10 hang. The 2 stones, once fulfilled spiritually in the believer, are our ability to procreate the life of His Spirit to others. Blessings....
Amen sis :thumbsup:
Quote from: Brian on March 09, 2009, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on March 09, 2009, 10:11:15 PM
So upon these 2, the whole of the 10 hang. The 2 stones, once fulfilled spiritually in the believer, are our ability to procreate the life of His Spirit to others. Blessings....
Do you think Jesus just meant the 2 of the 10, or the 2 of the 613?
I guess what I'm driving at is; do the 10 take precedence over the 613, or is that a just Gentile invention? I know Ellen G. White was harping on #4 before the movie came out, or I'd blame it on that.
:cloud9: Can't say exactly how all would be accomplished, but I think if the 10 were fulfilled spiritually, the others would fall under those, in spiritual meaning. Everything in there has a spiritual meaning. Blessings....
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: Brian on March 09, 2009, 10:53:56 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 10:46:30 PM
Question to all........Why do we have all the rest of the Bible? Does it really build faith or confusion? Does it make for peace among people or contention?
cp
Hey Bro, start your own thread! :hijacked: :HeartThrob:
Seriously. It's an excellent subject. I see I'm not the only one here in :BangHead: mode.
OK
Something I realized a long time ago, is if people are interested in an original post, they'll keep on it. If they get sidetracked from it, it's because they're done with it.
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 10:01:02 PM
Brian, you are good for me. Your honest, no nonsense approach and questions are great to my ears. Sometimes all of us, and I mean all of us, tend to get 'religious' in our way of thinking and talk.
I was so busy being a smart aleck, I forgot to say
THANKS. Because a lot of the time I sincerely feel like either a cry baby or someone having a meltdown (not that the two are mutually exclusive).
Pulled a few of these to look at;
Taken from Judaism:101
A list of the 613 mitzvot (commandments) that are binding on Jews
To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3) (CCA47) See Brit Milah: Circumcision.
To put tzitzit on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38) (CCA10). See Tzitzit and Tallit.
To bind tefillin on the head (Deut. 6:8) (CCA9). See Tefillin.
To bind tefillin on the arm
To recite grace after meals
Not to curse any other Israelite
To assist in replacing the load upon a neighbor's beast
Not to gather gleanings
Not to intermarry with gentiles
That a eunuch shall not marry a daughter of Israel
Not to exclude a descendant of Esau from the community of Israel for three generations
That the newly married husband shall (be free) for one year to rejoice with his wife
To divorce by a formal written document
That a widow whose husband died childless must not be married to anyone but her deceased husband's brother
That the new month shall be solemnly proclaimed as holy, and the months and years shall be calculated by the Supreme Court only
Not to travel on Shabbat outside the limits of one's place of residence
To fast on Yom Kippur
To rest on the first day of Sukkot
Not to eat a worm found in fruit
Not to eat things that swarm in the water
To set the mother-bird free when taking the nest
Not to eat flesh with milk
Not to eat flesh with milk
Not to sell a field in the land of Israel in perpetuity
Not to refrain from putting a false prophet to death nor to be in fear of him
Galatians 5:13-14 "For brethren, you have been called to liberty, only don't use liberty for an occassion to gratify the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in this one saying: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
Directly to your OP Brian, theoretically, as far as the 10 and where they fit in with the others, that's probably a little more scholarly question than I can answer...
Quote from: jabcat on March 10, 2009, 05:25:09 AM
Pulled a few of these to look at;
Taken from Judaism:101
A list of the 613 mitzvot (commandments) that are binding on Jews
To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3) (CCA47) See Brit Milah: Circumcision.
To put tzitzit on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38) (CCA10). See Tzitzit and Tallit.
To bind tefillin on the head (Deut. 6:8) (CCA9). See Tefillin.
To bind tefillin on the arm
To recite grace after meals
Not to curse any other Israelite
To assist in replacing the load upon a neighbor's beast
Not to gather gleanings
Not to intermarry with gentiles
That a eunuch shall not marry a daughter of Israel
Not to exclude a descendant of Esau from the community of Israel for three generations
That the newly married husband shall (be free) for one year to rejoice with his wife
To divorce by a formal written document
That a widow whose husband died childless must not be married to anyone but her deceased husband's brother
That the new month shall be solemnly proclaimed as holy, and the months and years shall be calculated by the Supreme Court only
Not to travel on Shabbat outside the limits of one's place of residence
To fast on Yom Kippur
To rest on the first day of Sukkot
Not to eat a worm found in fruit
Not to eat things that swarm in the water
To set the mother-bird free when taking the nest
Not to eat flesh with milk
Not to eat flesh with milk
Not to sell a field in the land of Israel in perpetuity
Not to refrain from putting a false prophet to death nor to be in fear of him
Galatians 5:13-14 "For brethren, you have been called to liberty, only don't use liberty for an occassion to gratify the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in this one saying: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
Directly to your OP Brian, theoretically, as far as the 10 and where they fit in with the others, that's probably a little more scholarly question than I can answer...
Eh, I was hoping maybe there was an ex-Rabbi out there. Never hurts to try. Funny thing, today my pastor was totally nailing Grace vs the Law reading out of Hebrews on his radio show http://www.messiahschristianfellowship.org/
Which was on the same station right before appearent frootloop Don Harris' show came on. Talk about worlds colliding. I wish Tommy had a daily archive like Steve Gregg of the Narrow Path does. But he does have some archives on his website. His Eternal Security of the Believer series which is archived, is what lead me to his fellowshp.
He's a fundie, but when it comes to our relationship with Jesus Christ, and His relationship with us, he's dynamic and edifying to no end. I often come away glowing.
"Not to eat a worm found in fruit." Oh, man! The Law takes the fun out of everything.