Personal Savior?

[trettep]

So your of the believe that context creates the meaning of words and not instead that words create context?

Paul

We are talking about translating here.  So, yes, context is very important as to which meaning or shade of meaning you choose for a word.  I really like the King James the best of all the Bibles.

But, when I look at the Hebrew and Greek words, it gives a three dimensional quality to the English translation--because any translation is going to be degraded, by definition.

Ok, Molly, I thought you were a universalist.  I'm had the wrong impression.

Paul

[Molly]

So your of the believe that context creates the meaning of words and not instead that words create context?

Paul

We are talking about translating here.  So, yes, context is very important as to which meaning or shade of meaning you choose for a word.  I really like the King James the best of all the Bibles.

But, when I look at the Hebrew and Greek words, it gives a three dimensional quality to the English translation--because any translation is going to be degraded, by definition.

Ok, Molly, I thought you were a universalist.  I'm had the wrong impression.

Paul

Not sure how you came to that impression from this discussion, but I actually don't have any opinion about what happens to people after death other than Jesus has promised us eternal life.  God has not revealed much of anything else to me about it particularly.  It's not something that I think about often.

[trettep]

So your of the believe that context creates the meaning of words and not instead that words create context?

Paul

We are talking about translating here.  So, yes, context is very important as to which meaning or shade of meaning you choose for a word.  I really like the King James the best of all the Bibles.

But, when I look at the Hebrew and Greek words, it gives a three dimensional quality to the English translation--because any translation is going to be degraded, by definition.

Ok, Molly, I thought you were a universalist.  I'm had the wrong impression.

Paul

Not sure how you came to that impression from this discussion, but I actually don't have any opinion about what happens to people after death other than Jesus has promised us eternal life.  God has not revealed much of anything else to me about it particularly.  It's not something that I think about often.

You said that you valued the King James version the most and that you thought the translations were inspired in how the KJV translated those other verses so I assumed you were not a universalist since one of the primary complaints we universalist have is how the King James translates words.  Most Eternal Torment believers strictly adhere to the King James version because it they believe its translation to be inspired also.  Furthermore, you said that you believe it to be translated different at the other verse location was accepted to you which is quite contrary to how the Concordant Method works in which a word is translated and used universally in sameness.  The Concordant Literal Translation uses such a method and that translation is used primarily (it seems) by universalists. 

Paul

[Molly]

Ah...well all I can say is "I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever" is the correct translation for Psalm 23.

:happygrin:

[sparrow]

So your of the believe that context creates the meaning of words and not instead that words create context?

Paul

We are talking about translating here.  So, yes, context is very important as to which meaning or shade of meaning you choose for a word.  I really like the King James the best of all the Bibles.

But, when I look at the Hebrew and Greek words, it gives a three dimensional quality to the English translation--because any translation is going to be degraded, by definition.

Ok, Molly, I thought you were a universalist.  I'm had the wrong impression.

Paul

Not sure how you came to that impression from this discussion, but I actually don't have any opinion about what happens to people after death other than Jesus has promised us eternal life.  God has not revealed much of anything else to me about it particularly.  It's not something that I think about often.

hey sis,
do you believe in eternal torment, or annihiliation then or...?
me is confused.  :winkgrin:
when you say "promised US eternal life"..
are you talking about ALL of mankind, as in eventually ALL of mankind will be reconciled..

???

[trettep]

Ah...well all I can say is "I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever" is the correct translation for Psalm 23.

:happygrin:

Well all I can say is that it isn't.  See how that works Molly, we both can't be right.

Paul

[willieH]

willieH: Hi sister R... :hithere:

:cloud9: Before you rejoice over that one, you need to understand that the 'day' of the Lord IS the Lord, and that we are all 'days', and if pressing into Him are becoming as days in His sight.

And as I said before, time is the measurement of death, and there is NO DEATH in His Spirit, therefore NO TIME. Blessings......

Amen sis...  :goodpost:

You are just a fountain of wisdom!  :teaching: I get blessed everytime I read your words...  :cloud9:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Molly]

hey sis,
do you believe in eternal torment, or annihiliation then or...?
me is confused.  
when you say "promised US eternal life"..
are you talking about ALL of mankind, as in eventually ALL of mankind will be reconciled..

???

All mankind?  I don't know the answer to that.  I see the arguments on here and they make sense to me intellectually, but I have no spiritual input on it.

I've always known God as love, never even heard about hell until I was a teenager and read Dante.  He struck me as nuts.  lol

I know that Jesus will save those who believe in him because he says so.  That's all I know for sure.

well, I can stretch it a little further than that from personal experience, but not much.

[willieH]

You said that you valued the King James version the most and that you thought the translations were inspired in how the KJV translated those other verses so I assumed you were not a universalist since one of the primary complaints we universalist have is how the King James translates words.  Most Eternal Torment believers strictly adhere to the King James version because it they believe its translation to be inspired also.

Wow!  Not sure who or where you have gained this thinking Paul, but I have often (and daily still do), visited ET forums, and have found with most, that the KJV is NOT their favorite...

Most of them seem to prefer using the ESV, NIV and some, the NKJV...

The Concordant Literal Translation uses such a method and that translation is used primarily (it seems) by universalists. 

Again, I am an 8 year believer in the Salvation of ALL (don't like labels such as "Universalist"), and use NOTHING but the KJV... go figure...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[sparrow]

hey sis,
do you believe in eternal torment, or annihiliation then or...?
me is confused.  
when you say "promised US eternal life"..
are you talking about ALL of mankind, as in eventually ALL of mankind will be reconciled..

???

All mankind?  I don't know the answer to that.  I see the arguments on here and they make sense to me intellectually, but I have no spiritual input on it.

I've always known God as love, never even heard about hell until I was a teenager and read Dante.  He struck me as nuts.  lol

I know that Jesus will save those who believe in him because he says so.  That's all I know for sure.

well, I can stretch it a little further than that from personal experience, but not much.

Ok, sis. Thanks for clarifying your views.
:HeartThrob:

[trettep]

You said that you valued the King James version the most and that you thought the translations were inspired in how the KJV translated those other verses so I assumed you were not a universalist since one of the primary complaints we universalist have is how the King James translates words.  Most Eternal Torment believers strictly adhere to the King James version because it they believe its translation to be inspired also.

Wow!  Not sure who or where you have gained this thinking Paul, but I have often (and daily still do), visited ET forums, and have found with most, that the KJV is NOT their favorite...

Most of them seem to prefer using the ESV, NIV and some, the NKJV...

The Concordant Literal Translation uses such a method and that translation is used primarily (it seems) by universalists. 

Again, I am an 8 year believer in the Salvation of ALL (don't like labels such as "Universalist"), and use NOTHING but the KJV... go figure...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

Obviously, we encounter a very different crowd.  

Paul

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Thanks Willie.........I am equally blessed reading your posts. And Sparrow, I am busy for the next couple of days, but I will do my best to explain whatever you ask me about.  :HeartThrob: Blessings....

[Molly]

Ok, sis. Thanks for clarifying your views.

I will say one thing, though.  You might know from my past posts that I am surrounded by atheists and agnostics.  When I was in a lot of trouble recently and asked Jesus to send me legions of angels....they were among the ones who showed up.  :laughing7:

[sparrow]

You said that you valued the King James version the most and that you thought the translations were inspired in how the KJV translated those other verses so I assumed you were not a universalist since one of the primary complaints we universalist have is how the King James translates words.  Most Eternal Torment believers strictly adhere to the King James version because it they believe its translation to be inspired also.

Wow!  Not sure who or where you have gained this thinking Paul, but I have often (and daily still do), visited ET forums, and have found with most, that the KJV is NOT their favorite...

Most of them seem to prefer using the ESV, NIV and some, the NKJV...

The Concordant Literal Translation uses such a method and that translation is used primarily (it seems) by universalists. 

Again, I am an 8 year believer in the Salvation of ALL (don't like labels such as "Universalist"), and use NOTHING but the KJV... go figure...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

Obviously, we encounter a very different crowd.  

Paul

Lol... the only bible I had was the KJV and God somehow brought me to the knowledge of UR.

Nothing is impossible with God.. :laughing7:

[sparrow]

:cloud9: Thanks Willie.........I am equally blessed reading your posts. And Sparrow, I am busy for the next couple of days, but I will do my best to explain whatever you ask me about.  :HeartThrob: Blessings....

cool. Take your time with the first group of questions then, sis.
I appreciate it.
no rush.
:icon_flower:

[sparrow]

Ok, sis. Thanks for clarifying your views.

I will say one thing, though.  You might know from my past posts that I am surrounded by atheists and agnostics.  When I was in a lot of trouble recently and asked Jesus to send me legions of angels....they were among the ones who showed up.  :laughing7:

I don't doubt it.
God doesn't see labels.
He sees the heart.  :HeartThrob:

[trettep]

You said that you valued the King James version the most and that you thought the translations were inspired in how the KJV translated those other verses so I assumed you were not a universalist since one of the primary complaints we universalist have is how the King James translates words.  Most Eternal Torment believers strictly adhere to the King James version because it they believe its translation to be inspired also.

Wow!  Not sure who or where you have gained this thinking Paul, but I have often (and daily still do), visited ET forums, and have found with most, that the KJV is NOT their favorite...

Most of them seem to prefer using the ESV, NIV and some, the NKJV...

The Concordant Literal Translation uses such a method and that translation is used primarily (it seems) by universalists. 

Again, I am an 8 year believer in the Salvation of ALL (don't like labels such as "Universalist"), and use NOTHING but the KJV... go figure...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

Obviously, we encounter a very different crowd.  

Paul

Lol... the only bible I had was the KJV and God somehow brought me to the knowledge of UR.

Nothing is impossible with God.. :laughing7:

Oh, I'm not saying it is impossible.  I debated against UR from the KJV but still converted to UR before I had even known about the CLV.

Paul

[sparrow]

You said that you valued the King James version the most and that you thought the translations were inspired in how the KJV translated those other verses so I assumed you were not a universalist since one of the primary complaints we universalist have is how the King James translates words.  Most Eternal Torment believers strictly adhere to the King James version because it they believe its translation to be inspired also.

Wow!  Not sure who or where you have gained this thinking Paul, but I have often (and daily still do), visited ET forums, and have found with most, that the KJV is NOT their favorite...

Most of them seem to prefer using the ESV, NIV and some, the NKJV...

The Concordant Literal Translation uses such a method and that translation is used primarily (it seems) by universalists. 

Again, I am an 8 year believer in the Salvation of ALL (don't like labels such as "Universalist"), and use NOTHING but the KJV... go figure...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

Obviously, we encounter a very different crowd.  

Paul

Lol... the only bible I had was the KJV and God somehow brought me to the knowledge of UR.

Nothing is impossible with God.. :laughing7:

Oh, I'm not saying it is impossible.  I debated against UR from the KJV but still converted to UR before I had even known about the CLV.

Paul

ohhh... :Sparkletooth: cool.

:HeartThrob:

[Shadow]

Ok, Molly, I thought you were a universalist.  I'm had the wrong impression.

Paul

That's funny, I've always had the impression that Molly was'nt a universalist myself

[Seth]

:cloud9: Before you rejoice over that one, you need to understand that the 'day' of the Lord IS the Lord, and that we are all 'days', and if pressing into Him are becoming as days in His sight.

And as I said before, time is the measurement of death, and there is NO DEATH in His Spirit, therefore NO TIME. Blessings......

Cardinal, why is not time also the measurement of thought? I appreciate that you have a personal definition of time and that it factors into your definition of timelessness, but I don't see any reason why it is, or should be the only one - especially since the scripture does not explicitly define time for us.

I see timelessness a LACK of thought, which to me IS a death.

[WhiteWings]

Time is linked to matter.
Time can only stop if there is no more matter.
There is some verse that states that God makes a new earth/universe.
For me that means a universe with time.
A completely redesigned world/universe wouldn't be a new but a different universe.
The dimensions of New Jerusalem sorta hint it's totally different.
So what does a new earth mean?

[Seth]

Time is linked to matter.
Time can only stop if there is no more matter.
There is some verse that states that God makes a new earth/universe.
For me that means a universe with time.
A completely redesigned world/universe wouldn't be a new but a different universe.
The dimensions of New Jerusalem sorta hint it's totally different.
So what does a new earth mean?

WW, I have heard, and seen evidence for (but so far am not decided) that "new heaven, and new earth" means new relationship between God and man. One of the text I saw was from a OT prophecy where God is speaking to Israel and he says "O Earth Earth Earth..."

BTW, regarding time's relationship to matter, I think that they relate to experience. In other words matter affects how we experience time, not as to whether it exists or not...

[sheila]

 to me, it means a whole new ETERNAL PERFECTED CREATION

    THAT DOES NOT EXIST RELATIVE TO TIME

      IT JUST IS as HE   IS    I  AM...

[WhiteWings]

Sheila,

Do you think the lack of time is needed for perfection?
Personally I don't see why eternal life is worse or better with or without time.
Currently time works against us because we age and then die. God states He reduced the max. age to 120 years.
But what if we just keep getting older but always be in the prime of our life?
Who cares what your age is, if you are happy....
BTW I think the current creation is timeless too because every lady seems to be 30 years old when asked  :laughing7:

[Seth]

Currently time works against us because we age and then die. God states He reduced the max. age to 120 years.

Is that time working against us, or mortality?