Hello,
I was busy for a while with the books of Karl Christian Friedrich Krause, a german thinker of the early 19th century. He wrote a lot about panentheism and I wanted you to tell me what you think of that view. If you know Descartes and Spinoza, they said that we can doubt anything but God and ourselves. Spinoza then argued that the world is God because it is one substance. Krause sees it similarly, but he adds that God is more than the world. If we think about it, this makes much sense and it justifies life and specifically life in this world as the prime mode of existence. Thought becomes less of a movement in the dark but instead a conclusion about goodness and God that cannot be shaken.
This universe here is really big. I don't think God created it from this world, so Genesis is probably a very mystical view and not scientific. It is true somehow, but we don't know how and can only understand bits of it. And it's important again to see the Hebrew word plays. If we believe in one God then this one God has made or born the entire universe, so this should enlighten us and give us a more cosmic view of God and of ourselves. There are probably more planets like Earth in the universe and some probably have alien species on them comparable to us. And it would stand to reason that they also have had a Jesus Christ type of man coming to them and igniting the torch of love, reconciliation and salvation.
This would make our Jesus more of a Savior of mankind, concentrating on this Earth here and not on the universe as a whole, because other planets would be the "job" of other Christ persons. And they are one by the one Spirit of Christ that had descended on Jesus when he got baptized in the Jordan river by John the Baptist.
Krause argues that the whole cosmos is caught up in God and that everything is IN God. Our living and dying, our breathing and weaving, it all happens in God and knows its home in him. Atheists may see it as beauty coming to them or as love happening, but in reality that's all God and his work. Even suffering is happening in God, and that's when we doubt. When only the good is happening to you normally you do not doubt what has given it to you. But some people fall in Ijob's situation and suffer and cannot understand why. When you feel pain all the high talk of love and faith and hope do not seem to matter so much. Pain, like poet Hermann Hesse described it, is a master making you small. But once the pain is gone we can trust again. Ijob always felt a sting, the God that had made him happy was making him suffering.
And it was not quite God, because he was away, and it was not satan, because he had inflicted the suffering and went away too. Sometimes we only sit in suffering. God had to remind Ijob to the beauty of the cosmos, and to how God acts in it, and that's when Ijob found release. That is why as christians we should see God in the world and not hate it at all. Yes, the mind has some troubles because there is evil in the world, but making the whole world into a mirror of evil would be like condemning victims and the innocent along with the guilty ones. Not right.
It's all kept in God, and God is working on solutions. Hell does not solve anything because it creates suffering and more rebellion. I have this book about medieval ideas about the devil and hell and it's awful. They really thought God has given hell to the devil as his realm and that he can torture people there and can act out his pride. But that isn't the truth. With Origen I think hellfire is a mystical and clean fire where we are put in the pure love of God and where our impurities, not our spirit and soul, get burned. Even the devil will, once he has been burned, be resurrected and become a new and sanctified being. The difference is, humans who are in the end not so responsible for their stuff, can keep their self. The devil must start out anew and will likely be a simple and ordinary angel then and not such a powerful being anymore. That's what he hates in this day and age, like everyone who is evil desires to keep and increase their might and power. But that's his fate.
Krause argues that every atom is enveloped by God. We humans wish to be protected by God too, and that's where we need Jesus who teaches a protection by walking an upright way, living by eternal truth and existing in a holy life. Jesus was a special child of the cosmos who is God, one of those wise and prudent children who find their way and who care about others getting the same. We have no simple salvation and in truth our salvation means we become children of God, and that means we become small Christs. Christ in us is the Higher Self, which means our childhood in God is no addition to our being which we carry around with, instead it is something we ARE then. And since our human existence means that we cherish what we ARE and that we cannot deny it, it means we will then always love and believe in God from the wells of our SELF, not from will or desire of the flesh.
That's the big scope of salvation. We suffer as children of God, not as thrown away criminals. We suffer like Christ, not like Adam. It's all kept in God. We are safe and sound and if we have love, we can keep going. Pain is awful, but with time and patience it is overcomeable.
I do believe that God is everything.. but especially life itself. He breathed into Adam the breath of life at which time he became alive.. (KJ poetic became a living soul.) I think life, after the issue of good and evil (life and death/nonlife) has been proven, will spread throughout the universe. Will there be more born? I don't know, but I do know that all the folks that have ever lived, is quite a few people..
I know some words in the bible have been very badly translated.. And this after hundreds of years of the bible being banned or not available. Even with it's less than perfect ideas presented because of those errors in translation/understanding, it's still a miraculous book! I'm struck with that right now.. at this moment. Banned.. not available. :mshock: How happy I am to have every translation and great study tools at my very fingertips! I used to use the big Strong's Concordances, one for KJ one for NASB.. now they're on my computer and in my little phone. I never read without consulting an interlinear version (usually on biblehub.com (http://biblehub.com)) with links to the actual and genuine words originally used. Wow. This opened up a whole new way of being taught by God's Spirit, via His Word, which I believe is the formula. That His Spirit operates in our hearts and minds via His Word which is both truth and logic/logos.
I hope you will post a bit more about the philosophers.. I've always meant to read them but never have.. A tiny bit is all. I have a book titled "makers of the modern mind" and I was reading it.. :Chinscratch: I wonder where that book is..)
I think God (and the Lord Jesus) will meet us where we are at. I read many Eastern 'religion' publications, especially of Paramahanza Yogananda.. Studied meditation but ended up doing my own thing, just a quieting of the heart and the mind-noisy place that! So one can 'hear' the voice of God.. It seems to 'float down to one like a feather' as a truth or insight, usually rather profound. Not up from the heart or lodged in the mind.. but 'seems' to float down from above.. :cloud9: But I think the reading of Yogananda and meditation of the yogi's taught me something I was able to interpret and use in a Christian and Biblical context. Those things and astrology - study of, played a part in my conversion! But these days, i am totally bible.. finally! Looking back it feels like I was at the bow of a ship trying to steer it through rough and high waters (tumultuous!) water with the large wheel a ship has.. But couldn't get myself to read as much Bible as I wanted. I still don't quite.. But I did organize my reading into the gospels blended to flow as a whole - so I can 'enter the story'.. and also read through Acts in a year, and enter that story too! And read the letters in a year, in the order believed written.. And through revelation in a year, which I actually haven't done for a year or two.
Oh and Psalms, that's fallen off a bit too, but I'm working on it! Love the psalms :cloud9: And the schedule is cool 1-20 is january; 20's february; 30's march..etc.. to december which is 120-150, and they're shorter psalms! Proverbs can be read in a month..
I do pray to the Lord, that I will not be more in love with His Word, than with Him.. (and He recently {?} told my my husband, nominal? believer will receive a closer vision of Him than I ever have. :mshock: ..and this is a good thing! :banana:
My idea of life is that God is both Life and also Perfection. (But) when He endowed thinking ability, to angel and man, a whole new world (or tree) of possibilities came about, because with thinking ability comes the ability to make choices. And God only able to be honest, there was that tree in the original garden of life.. So once one chooses anything in thought, word or deed that differs with what He chooses, they become imperfet, the opposite of Life. Hence the rescue/redemption(recycling :laughing7: in New England is called redemption) ..hence the rescue "built in from the beginning" that if Jesus be lifted up from the Earth He will draw all to Him, Jn 12:32. The fallen way, to me, is a very greivous thing. The tiniest speck of imperfection is a bottomless pit of potential. And by our heavenly Father letting it - more or less - run its course, He is proving this to "all" .."in heaven and earth". And writing/engraving it upon every heart, mind and psyche. And guess what? Because He iS life, He suffers, lives through, and experiences all sufferings which ever occur!
Why would He put Himself through all that? Perhaps because He's not creating an ant farm or something, but His own family (of many bea-uti-ful branches, and a perpetual paradise perfection..
This view on life came to me about 20 years ago. I had been a christian for almost 20 years, and I knew the lion will eat straw like the ox and also that likely all would be saved, when our son asked me two questions "why was the tree of knowing good and evil in the garden?" and "isn't it great we get to be an ant farm?" - a cynic is a frustrated idealist.. I wasn't satisfied with my answers! So I prayed for better and they came back to me like "bams!" knocked my socks off.. they're still off which is good because I don't think my feet touch the ground much anymore.. (that's the UR/CU effect).
And the whole thing (bams) ended with a question - which I almost forgot, good grief! Guess I haven't talked about this for a while. The question was, Why did God wait such a long - very long time, and only created the universe and man and woman, not only after the first bound-to-occur rebel thought occurred (as it did in high angel Lucifer), but after that thought had grown into outright sedition and revolt? Didn't He know what would happen? :laughing7: Of course He did! Perfection makes no mistakes. Can lose nothing. To borrow from sister D, "God is love" and "love never fails"! 1 Jn 4:8 & 1 Cor,. 13:8.
Later, to myself, I added another question, which I like to sometimes ask others, how would you go about creating an un-breakable paradise perfection? (I figure we are being taught He is life, therefor separation, or independence from Him really is not a logical option.
:Peace2: God bless You!
Sorry, I may butcher your question MG, but it is for a good purpose :rolllol:
QuoteAnd the whole thing (bams) ended with a question - which I almost forgot, good grief! Guess I haven't talked about this for a while. The question was, Why did God wait such a long - very long time, and only created the universe and man and woman
Well, to say quickly, where do you think the fruits of the Spirit came from? Do you really think Patience just spoofed up out of nowhere? Quickly obtained Long suffering sounds a bit like a contradiction to me.
QuoteLater, to myself, I added another question, which I like to sometimes ask others, how would you go about creating an un-breakable paradise perfection? (I figure we are being taught He is life, therefor separation, or independence from Him really is not a logical option.
:Peace2: God bless You!
You give 'em an experience of good and evil, that's what you do!
Hebrews 5
8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him
Ecclesiastes 1
13And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven:
this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.Concerning especially the Hebrews verse, take note that he was made perfect through suffering, by the things He suffered. I dont recall a verse saying this happened only on earth. What makes us any different?
Hebrews 1
5For to which of the messengers said He ever, 'My Son thou art — I to-day have begotten thee?' and again, 'I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son?"That's what makes us different! Were the angels begotten? Will the angels be born into the Kingdom, to be true sons of God? Don't think so.