One of the fruits of ET

[fullarmor2]

        I was reading a certain book in which the author was talking about how certain "church leaders" in the past were guilty of condoning the murder of "heretics" .      And their reasoning was that heresy is the worst possible crime that a person can commit.  Because a heretic will not only destroy themselves,  but they are likely to drag other people to eternal torment also as they spread their heresy to other people.  
    My question is, when did the "church"  stop using that line of reasoning? Because the killing of heretics obviously stopped at some point in Christendom.    However,   false religion is false religion, and that spirit is still committing murder of so called "heretics"
around the World today.   Its just interesting that that spirit stopped working like that in Christendom.    And,  somewhat  hypocritical  I might add.  Since if eternal torment is a reality,  that would make heresy against eternal torment the worst possible crime!   The line of reasoning makes sense, and its no surprise that eternal torment believers in the past murdered "heretics".  
 

[Raggedy Anne]

Excellent point, Fullarmor.   Let's hope they don't decide to take up the practice of it again and start murdering UR believers. 
Fear always brings out the worst in humans.

Anne

[fullarmor2]

   I hear ya there.  The problem is,  that spirit is still alive and well today!  It may be dormant in Christendom,  but its not dormant around the World.   :mshock:

[whyiloveitaly.com]

I think it's still active in Christendom today, Fullarmor2. Christendom is very much in support of the violence in the Middle East, and the State of Israel is getting a lot of arms from "Christian America." The reason for this is simple: get the Jews back to the promised land so that Jesus Christ will come and rapture us away! (Isn't it obvious that Christians value Jews more than Arabs??)

Christians by and large, with their rapture doctrine, have no interest in other people. One time, the Churches believed that the Kingdom of God would be fulfilled here on earth. So they were more "active" in trying to convert/kill people.
Today, we have the relatively new "whisk me away, Jesus!" doctrine. This teaches people to preach the Gospel but also be "ready every minute" for the elevator ride.. There's no need to kill people--God will do that for us!

Blessings to you,
Brian

[WhiteWings]

Laws changed a bit since then. I wonder if law would allow how many would pick up the good old habits....

[jfraysse]

WW hit the nail squarely on the head!  Secular Laws prohibit the Church from conducting Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch Hunts and burnings at the stake for Heretic.  First Amendment rights and the separation of Church and State are the ONLY reasons we are not reading about these today on most countries.  Many Islamic states are still very much into stonings, beheadings, honor killings and death to Infidels – all in Allah's name! :sigh: :thumbdown:

Don't forget that the Church and State have been unholy partners for most of civilized human history.  The idea that the State should not forcibly define an individual's religion is only about 400 years old and in the US is generally credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke.

All I can say is Thank God! :thumbsup:

In His Love, John :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

The idea that the State should not forcibly define an individual's religion is only about 400 years old and in the US is generally credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke.

Thereby proving that the atheism forced on the population by Communist countries is a religion.

Yes!  Atheism is a religion.

[jfraysse]

       I was reading a certain book in which the author was talking about how certain "church leaders" in the past were guilty of condoning the murder of "heretics" .      And their reasoning was that heresy is the worst possible crime that a person can commit.  Because a heretic will not only destroy themselves,  but they are likely to drag other people to eternal torment also as they spread their heresy to other people.  

Ya know saints, while we are talking about the "worse crimes", wouldn't folks who believe in ET who HAVE KIDS be the ABSOLUTE WORSE PEOPLE on the planet!  These people bring kids into the world who they KNOW have a CHANCE of being subjected to unbearable torment forever!  IF I really believed in ET, I would NEVER, EVER have ANYTHING to do with procreation!  I would get a vasectomy and if I had the power, I would sterilize all humans of reproductive age and I would be a decided advocate of Gay marriage!

In His Love, John (who doesn't think anyone REALLY believes in ET) :HeartThrob:

[Raggedy Anne]

I think it's still active in Christendom today, Fullarmor2. Christendom is very much in support of the violence in the Middle East, and the State of Israel is getting a lot of arms from "Christian America." The reason for this is simple: get the Jews back to the promised land so that Jesus Christ will come and rapture us away! (Isn't it obvious that Christians value Jews more than Arabs??)

Christians by and large, with their rapture doctrine, have no interest in other people. One time, the Churches believed that the Kingdom of God would be fulfilled here on earth. So they were more "active" in trying to convert/kill people.
Today, we have the relatively new "whisk me away, Jesus!" doctrine. This teaches people to preach the Gospel but also be "ready every minute" for the elevator ride.. There's no need to kill people--God will do that for us!

Blessings to you,
Brian

Brian,
I will certainly add that I agree with you on that, that there are Christians and Jews who are every bit as violent as any of the Muslims. 
And in news this week, there are stories coming out of places in Africa where they are making it punishable by death to be homosexual and stiff penalties for anyone who does not turn in any known homosexual persons.  I think that is rather shocking.   There were homosexuals targeted by Hitler during his holocaust as well:

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/educational/homosexuals.html

anne

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Speaking of separation of Church and state!

I tried to hire a lawyer to represent me in a case of this issue and no one would even give me the time of day.


I was forced not to read the bible while in the dept. of Corrections and was told that if I got caught sharing the Gospel then I would be removed from the program I was in and I did and stood on my right to read and study and Speak the Word, and got sent up sort of speaking, lost my program and was sanctioned for my choice, My lawyer at the time told me to record all people involved in the issue and I did and was also wrote up and sanctioned for writing my Lawyer ( Maine Civil Liberty Union) "Zachery Heiden of the before mentioned in Portland Maine.

[Molly]

Speaking of separation of Church and state!

Yeah.  It's used as a club by those who would destroy our country.

But people are getting fed up.

They are even being so bold as to wish others, Merry Christmas!

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Although it's a terrible thing to say, if ETers want to REALLY try to get as many people into heaven as possible, they should bomb preschools. At least those under the "age of accountability" would get in!! (And even if sent to prison, the ETers could always repent!)

Separation of church and state does not exist, because religion IS politics. EVERYBODY preaches something. You cannot escape it. We are either for Jesus or against Him. Nobody is "neutral." Just like no media source is neutral.

Blessings,
Brian

[WhiteWings]

Although it's a terrible thing to say, if ETers want to REALLY try to get as many people into heaven as possible, they should bomb preschools.

Most of those kids are not the elect so perhaps not a goof idea :-)

[jfraysse]

Hey Brother Brian:  I know that most ETers believe in the "Age of Accountability" but there is nothing in the Bible to support it, that's why even bombing preschools will not work. :mshock: 

I remember asking a young friend of mind if she believed in ET to which she responded, "yes".  I then asked her why she had kids and she said because she loved kids and thought that they were the blessings of God.  Of course I agreed, but then I asked if she truly believed in ET, WHY did she have kids in the first place?  Why take the chance?  And why wouldn't killing them now (because she believed in the Age of Accountability) be the most Loving thing she could do?  There as a long very uncomfortable pause and then she said, "I see your point" and began to slowly walk away.  But then I was VERY uncomfortable!  And I was compelled to say over and over again, that I was just KIDDING! – JUST KIDDING about you killing your kids!  She seemed very cold at the time and it was REALLY creeping me out! (We were in a Grocery Store parking lot.) :mshock:

Thankfully, she called later and confessed that ET made no sense and that she had also reconciled with her Universalist Mom and Aunt, so I suspect the seeds of doubt concerning ET were there all along and probably contributing to family strife. :sigh:

A short little story with a Happy Ending, methinks! :winkgrin:

In His Love, John :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

And why wouldn't killing them now (because she believed in the Age of Accountability) be the most Loving thing she could do?

That's what that insane lady did, killed all five of her children for just that reason--Andrea Yates.

I don't think I'd go around recommending that to people lol.

[Shadow]

Ya know saints, while we are talking about the "worse crimes", wouldn't folks who believe in ET who HAVE KIDS be the ABSOLUTE WORSE PEOPLE on the planet!  These people bring kids into the world who they KNOW have a CHANCE of being subjected to unbearable torment forever!  IF I really believed in ET, I would NEVER, EVER have ANYTHING to do with procreation!

This is THE main reasons I've never had kids, when I went to church I grasped this concept so quickly because although I tried to push the vile concept of ET out of my mind, I couldn't be 100% sure that a child I would bring into the world may be headed for such a fate

10 years ago when I was 32, I came across the apocryphal book of 2 Esdras in a bible I had at the time, I knew for sure then that I would never ever would become a mother or a grandmother

I would not for my life destroy one star of human hope, but I want it so that when a poor woman rocks the cradle and sings a lullaby to the dimpled darling, she will not be compelled to believe that ninety-nine chances in a hundred she is raising kindling wood for hell.

I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men.... What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena
-- Robert Green Ingersoll

In fact I hate this doctrine so much (with a fiery white burning unending passion), that whenever I feel hatred or anger towards people, I actually focus on my hatred for this doctrine, it eases my anger and hatred somewhat, and I can actually envision myself actually loving these people somehow.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

jfraysse,
I agree with you! Even the preachers themselves don't believe in it. Amazing how the human heart can deny what it feels!

Preachers who don't believe what they're preaching, and people not understanding the message they're hearing..

Blessings,
Brian

[jfraysse]

I don't think I'd go around recommending that to people lol.

I know, Mol!  It really freaked me out!  I learned my lesson and have NEVER done this again - Good thing, aye? :mblush: :HeartThrob:

[jfraysse]

jfraysse,
I agree with you! Even the preachers themselves don't believe in it. Amazing how the human heart can deny what it feels!

Preachers who don't believe what they're preaching, and people not understanding the message they're hearing..

Blessings,
Brian

Amen, Brian!  :thumbsup::HeartThrob:

[jfraysse]

Hey Shadow:  You are the most wounded person I know concerning ET and my heart goes out to you!  In fact, everytime this subject comes up, I think of you!  IMHO, you have EVERY right to feel the way you do and if that means you and I are in hell together, I would be proud to be there with you, Sis.  Fortunately, ET is Baloney! :thumbsup:

You remain in my prayers!

In His Love, John :HeartThrob:

[Beloved Servant]

Brother, what is BS?

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Molly, I personally don't think that girl killing her children was insane because she did the only thing she was "taught", and she acted out of faith in what she was taught, she believed she was doing the only just thing believed in that RELIGION. And we all know which one she was in...

I do think that killing your kids is insane, but her reasons were just, her teachers were not.

[jabcat]

I believe vulnerable people (most of us, in one way or another) but especially the mentally ill, can be negatively affected by the author's so-called "bad religion" - some to the extreme - intensifying already underlying problems.

Bad Religion Partially to Blame for Tragedy in Texas
BY: David Waters
The (Memphis, TN) Commercial Appeal
March 20, 2002

There's no doubt Andrea Yates drowned her five children in a bathtub, one by one. There's also no doubt her accomplices included mental illness, social isolation - and bad religion. Bad religion is a graceless form of religion that dwells in the dark, preying on sick and vulnerable minds and souls. It's a loveless form of religion that flourishes in fear and delights in doubt. It's a hopeless form of religion that obsesses over such notions as original sin, eternal damnation, and the devil. It's a punitive and abusive form of religion.... "The Bible says the devil prowls around looking for someone to devour," Russell Yates, Andrea's husband, told Time magazine. "Jesus says, `Resist the devil and he will flee from you.' Andrea did not have the strength to resist.'" Psychiatrists testified that Andrea Yates was severely depressed and delusional, possibly suffering from paranoid and catatonic schizophrenia. She also tended to isolate herself and her home-schooled children from family and friends. She also believed demons surrounded her and she was fulfilling a prophecy by drowning her five children last June. "She believed that the children would be tormented and perish in the fires of hell unless they were killed," Dr. Melissa Ferguson testified. According to Time magazine, Yates told jail doctors the death of her children was her punishment, not theirs. "She had failed her children," Time reported. "Only her execution would rescue her from the evil inside her - a state-sanctioned exorcism in which George W. Bush, the former Governor and now President, would come to save her from the clutches of Satan." No one saved Andrea Yates or her children from the clutches of bad religion. The bad religion she encountered teaches that newborn children are sinners, inherently evil. It teaches that women are wicked descendants of Eve, who is responsible for Man's fall from grace. It teaches that illness is a punishment for sin. Bad religion is taught by people like Michael Woroniecki, an intinerant street preacher who was a sort of spiritual adviser to Rusty and Andrea Yates. Woroniecki was arrested several times in the early 1980s in Grand Rapids, Mich., for berating people with a bullhorn and his distorted version of the Bible, according to the Grand Rapids (Mich.) Press. Woroniecki left Grand Rapids after that and began touring the country with his wife, Rachel, and their children, living in a bus. The Yateses followed their example and also lived in a bus for a while. Russell Yates met Woroniecki at Auburn University in the 1980s. They reconnected in 1998. "Andrea, moved by the repent-or-burn zeal, wound up exchanging letters with the preacher and his wife for years," Time reported. In one letter, Michael Woroniecki wrote, "the role of women is derived . . . from the sin of Eve" and that bad children come from bad mothers, Time reported. In another letter, Rachel Woroniecki wrote, "Life is so short. It is so very cruel. It is so lonely and empty. You must accept the reality that this life is under the curse of sin and death," ABC News reported. Bad religion isn't just abrasive. It's abusive. According to Survivors of Spiritual Abuse (SOSA), these are some of the signs of that sort of abuse: -- Antisocial withdrawal accompanied by depression. -- Auditory hallucinations. -- Belief that his/her soul is "lost," "sold," or "possessed." -- Compulsive or obsessive thoughts. -- Confusion about family roles and relationships. -- Evidence of frequent trance states. -- Exaggerated sense of guilt and responsibility for others. -- Extreme compliance with authority figures. "Spiritual abuse is an abuse that encompasses many other forms of abuse," SOSA explains on its Web site, www.sosa.org. "Many of these abuses are physical, and many are emotional. It is an abuse that encroaches on the mind and soul, along with the body. "The person being spiritually abused is often told, and made to feel, that they are evil, be it for causing a `holy' person to lust, or for being severely ill, as in some cases of exorcism, or for just being born." Bad religion leads to judgmentalism, cynicism and despair. It alienates people from each other, from themselves, even from their own children - and from God. Bad religion isn't just bad. It's toxic. There's only one antidote to bad religion. The grace, love, hope, and community of good religion [the true Good News and works of Jesus Christ - jabcat]. (C) 2002 The Commercial Appeal Memphis, TN. via ProQuest Information and Learning Company; All Rights Reserved

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2002/03/Bad-Religion-Partially-To-Blame-For-Tragedy-In-Texas.aspx

[Beloved Servant]

Save for the care of widows and orphans; there is no good religion.
Partaking of the brethren is not a religion, it is our birthright, our heritage, we are the rightful heirs of Christ Jesus.

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Another meaning of Religion
They are derived from the Greek deisidaimonia, which literally means DREAD-DEMONISM, Strong's Gr 1175-1174 and 1142 and 1149

and denotes superstitious veneration and worship of demons through dread and fear.  pg. 23 HSSS

Lee